Considering a first cycle... eventually

[theastrogeist]

I have had an account here under a different name for a couple of years now, but for anonymity, I have chosen to post under this name. I know that I will eventually use AAS, but I am not quite sure when I will take the plunge. Obviously I am looking forward to when the time comes. So, for now, I was hoping to get some comments from some experienced users on my potential cycle as well as answers to a couple of my questions. Any input is appreciated.

Stats

Age: 22
Experience: 2.5 years
Height: 5'6"
Weight: 175
Bf: 12-15%
Bench: 260
Squat: 400
Deadlift: 440

Diet

I counted every single macro/calorie I took in for about 9 months. During this period, my results were no different than when I didn't count them. So, I currently do not track macros. However, I am very conscious of keeping my protein high and my fats somewhat low. I have to force myself to eat enough carbs to keep them fairly high. To avoid over eating, which is very easy for me, I keep myself to 4 full meals a day with no snacks. 90% of what I eat would be considered clean.

Goals

I originally trained for strength, but for the past few months, I've put more focus on size. Interestingly enough, my strength has begun improving again since I've started training for size.

On with the potential cycle:

Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test E per week
Weeks 1-12: 25mg Aromasin every other day

Maybe add HCGenerate week 13-18?

PCT:

Week 15: 100mg Clomid & 40mg Nolvadex every day
Week 16-18: 50mg Clomid & 20mg Nolvadex every day

Questions

1. According to the sticky on this board, Aromasin isn't ideal. Would it be better to just use something like 10-20mg of Nolvadex every day during the cycle?

2. My only real fear of AAS is not being able to fully recover my natural test levels after the cycle/PCT. However, if I plan to go on TRT when I'm older anyway, is this really a big deal?

As I said before, any other comments are welcome.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

1) if you have been around here for a few years then you haven't learned a single thing have you?

2) don't use nolvadex ever unless you have gyno

3) too much clomid

4) Tapering test is a ridiculous outdated philosophy.

 

[theastrogeist]

Well to be fair, I never read the AAS section here since I haven't ever really thought of using until pretty recently.

The cycle I posted is was mostly written by an acquaintance of mine. I did think that tapering test seemed like something I hadn't seen much of in my research. Thanks for your comments. I will make some adjustments and post an updated cycle.

 

[theastrogeist]

What are your thoughts on the Aromasin during cycle?

 

[joeblow12345]

You have a lot of work to do before you run a cycle. I suggest you start out with something simple like rs transaderm and epi. A 6 week cycle will yield decent results and won't get overly complicated.

 

[theastrogeist]

You have a lot of work to do before you run a cycle. I suggest you start out with something simple like rs transaderm and epi. A 6 week cycle will yield decent results and won't get overly complicated.

Part of me agrees with you, so that's why I say I'm not really sure when I want to run a cycle. However, I'm not really interested at all in supplements. If I am going to take something to enhance my training, then I'm just gonna take the real deal.

 

[theastrogeist]

1) if you have been around here for a few years then you haven't learned a single thing have you?

2) don't use nolvadex ever unless you have gyno

3) too much clomid

4) Tapering test is a ridiculous outdated philosophy.

Also, I updated the cycle a bit. If you have anything to say about it, then I'd be glad to listen!

 

[EZ_E]

2 observations;

A) Very smart move to hold off on a cycle until you feel you're 100% ready...I like your style on that
B) I don't like what you said about "If I plan to go on TRT anyway"....it sounds like you may make a common new guy mistake & skimp on PCT. In 2013 there is no excuse for a poor PCT. Going on TRT should be a last resort and only because you have to......

~EZ

 

[theastrogeist]

2 observations;

A) Very smart move to hold off on a cycle until you feel you're 100% ready...I like your style on that
B) I don't like what you said about "If I plan to go on TRT anyway"....it sounds like you may make a common new guy mistake & skimp on PCT. In 2013 there is no excuse for a poor PCT. Going on TRT should be a last resort and only because you have to......

~EZ

Oh, maybe I wasn't clear on that. I definitely understand the importance of PCT. What I meant was, if I plan on going on TRT later on in life, then is my fear of not fully recovering after my PCT really something to worry about? But yes, I realize that PCT is essential to rebounding and keeping any gains.

 

[joeblow12345]

Part of me agrees with you, so that's why I say I'm not really sure when I want to run a cycle. However, I'm not really interested at all in supplements. If I am going to take something to enhance my training, then I'm just gonna take the real deal.

Your confused bro. Transaderm and epi are pro hormones. They produce steroid like results but are milder both in terms of sides and gains. That's what I meant by starting slow. You will get great results and the sides aren't drastic or unbearable like some steroids or harsh ph's can be. If your looking for more info on them there is a link in my sig on the transderm and you can go to mrsupps and check out epi.

 

[theastrogeist]

Your confused bro. Transaderm and epi are pro hormones. They produce steroid like results but are milder both in terms of sides and gains. That's what I meant by starting slow. You will get great results and the sides aren't drastic or unbearable like some steroids or harsh ph's can be. If your looking for more info on them there is a link in my sig on the transderm and you can go to mrsupps and check out epi.

Interesting. Though, I've always heard that pro hormones typically bring more side effects even though they aren't as effective as AAS.

 

[Idobehigh]

Interesting. Though, I've always heard that pro hormones typically bring more side effects even though they aren't as effective as AAS.

Depends on the ph, run a no name ph then yes but almost all mr supps ph come with very lil sides and the same with the rs transaderm read some of the logs man

 

[theastrogeist]

If one were to take Epi-Strong, would Nolva @ 20/20/10/10 be an ideal PCT? That seems to be what a lot of the logs use. Also, would something like HCGenerate be necessary?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

If one were to take Epi-Strong, would Nolva @ 20/20/10/10 be an ideal PCT? That seems to be what a lot of the logs use. Also, would something like HCGenerate be necessary?

What is it about "nolva is garbage" do you not understand? Please explain to me how nolva helps restart your natural test production?

 

[Idobehigh]

If one were to take Epi-Strong, would Nolva @ 20/20/10/10 be an ideal PCT? That seems to be what a lot of the logs use. Also, would something like HCGenerate be necessary?

Not one log have I seen were they run nolva for pct

 

[theastrogeist]

What is it about "nolva is garbage" do you not understand? Please explain to me how nolva helps restart your natural test production?

I'm just trying to learn. It seems that everyone in my position is told to "GO RESEARCH," only to find that a lot of information is conflicting. Anyway, here's what I read:

"The most common use of Nolvadex for an anabolic steroid user is during PCT. When we use anabolic androgenic steroids our natural testosterone production comes to a halt, regardless if our cycle was comprised of exogenous testosterone or not and remedy must necessarily be applied. It is for this reason it is imperative most base their cycles around testosterone but once the cycle is complete we must do all we can to bring natural production back to its natural state if we are to maintain any of the gains made while on cycle as well as maintain proper and adequate overall health. As Nolvadex has been shown to greatly increase natural testosterone production it only makes sense to supplement with it after a steroid cycle is complete. While a PCT plan will generally last 3-4 weeks this is not enough to bring your levels back to normal; however, it will greatly speed the process up."

I'm sure you are well-educated in AAS and lifting in general, but perhaps now you can see why I mentioned Nolvadex.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

The negativity towards Tamoxifen is overrated at best. Tamoxifen can be a part of a good PCT, just like it can be a part of a good anti-gynecomastia therapy.

 

[joeblow12345]

I'm just trying to learn. It seems that everyone in my position is told to "GO RESEARCH," only to find that a lot of information is conflicting. Anyway, here's what I read:

"The most common use of Nolvadex for an anabolic steroid user is during PCT. When we use anabolic androgenic steroids our natural testosterone production comes to a halt, regardless if our cycle was comprised of exogenous testosterone or not and remedy must necessarily be applied. It is for this reason it is imperative most base their cycles around testosterone but once the cycle is complete we must do all we can to bring natural production back to its natural state if we are to maintain any of the gains made while on cycle as well as maintain proper and adequate overall health. As Nolvadex has been shown to greatly increase natural testosterone production it only makes sense to supplement with it after a steroid cycle is complete. While a PCT plan will generally last 3-4 weeks this is not enough to bring your levels back to normal; however, it will greatly speed the process up."

I'm sure you are well-educated in AAS and lifting in general, but perhaps now you can see why I mentioned Nolvadex.

Ya I completely understand bro. Every time someone says research you come back with a million different opinions and its definitely confusing. So I will help you out. Nolvadex was used years ago for this purpose. However, over time those of us who were smart enough to realize that most people recommending this approach never truly recovered using this method. Nolva will indeed temporarily raise test, but what goes up will come crashing back down. And in the case of nolva, the way down is much more detrimental as the bounce back often takes significantly longer. So after its all said and done, your gains are gone, and your standing there with a limp dick in your hand. IMO and experience a more effective approach is to use a low dose of clomid with natural testosterone boosters, and a mild ai and something to cleanse your system. If no pct is run, your body will do this on its own eventually. But your gains will be long gone way before that happens. So the obvious and smartest option is to run a pct. there are many effective test boosters to choose from. I highly recommend the pc/ unleashed combo, forged methyl, or Phyto serms. For effective ai support in pct, forma is great. There are several different options and I suggest you add some combo of these products to your pct. for the transaderm and epi stack I do something like

Clomid 25 mg day
Pc/ unleashed
Forma
Daa

Or
Clomid 25 mg day
Phytoserms or forged methyl
Forma

I also suggest running n2guard for a few weeks into pct to help protect and cleanse the system.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I'm just trying to learn. It seems that everyone in my position is told to "GO RESEARCH," only to find that a lot of information is conflicting. Anyway, here's what I read:

"The most common use of Nolvadex for an anabolic steroid user is during PCT. When we use anabolic androgenic steroids our natural testosterone production comes to a halt, regardless if our cycle was comprised of exogenous testosterone or not and remedy must necessarily be applied. It is for this reason it is imperative most base their cycles around testosterone but once the cycle is complete we must do all we can to bring natural production back to its natural state if we are to maintain any of the gains made while on cycle as well as maintain proper and adequate overall health. As Nolvadex has been shown to greatly increase natural testosterone production it only makes sense to supplement with it after a steroid cycle is complete. While a PCT plan will generally last 3-4 weeks this is not enough to bring your levels back to normal; however, it will greatly speed the process up."

I'm sure you are well-educated in AAS and lifting in general, but perhaps now you can see why I mentioned Nolvadex.

Yes, after reading that. But it is horseshit at best. While I agree with Wolfpack that it is useful in the case of gyno issues I will never agree that it is helpful in PCT. Even patients who medically require Nolva feel like shit and get shitty sides from it. Read more about nolva and what exactly it does and its potential sides (which can include blood clots) and decide for yourself. Not information where someone says "its been shown to yadda yadda..."
There are a ton of better options out there.

 

[stevesmi]

at 22 you still have plenty of time to research this stuff. you seem to be on the right track asking questions.. however i would encourage you to research (i know you don't want to hear that anymore but its true) before you start getting fancy with cycles.

i agree with joe's suggestion. run a 'pro hormone' type cycle first.. the thing that confuses newbs is they see pro hormone and don't really get what that means and for good reason. mr supps products listed as pro hormones aren't really pro hormones.. they are designer steroids sold as 'pro hormones' ... they are as real as any oral steroid out there .. kinda like how tomato's are sold as vegetables at the grocery store but they are really a fruit. thats what makes them legal (for now atleast lol)

your stats are solid assuming you are telling the truth.. so this is what i would do if i were you to keep this shit as simple as possible and i promise you that you will not only grow like a weed during cycle but you will continue to grow through pct and beyond assuming you continue to workout and eat like a horse.

any of you other newbs reading this follow this and follow this close as this is a great way to get your feet wet into this shit WITHOUT dealing with needles and running long acting shit that is gonna shut your ass down the first time or that is illegal

rs transaderm 1-6 (see discount in my signature and banner)
katanadrol or epi 1-6 (PM me i can probably get you a deal or go to mr supps.com)

pct:

you don't need to get fancy with a short easy cycle like this and use shitty nolva or clomid and feel like shit.. instead feel great in pct..

1-2 bottles of phystoserms (again see the discount in my signature and click banner)

as simple as that.. not sure why you are making things more complicated than they are.. you will get just as good results on this cycle i listed then that crappy one your 'friend' wants you to do and most importantly you will KEEP your gains.

 

[theastrogeist]

Thanks everyone for the good information. Stevesmi, expect a pm.