Circumcision - a serious discussion

[Ulcasterdropout]

and no, thats not what i said. i said my parents made a decision based on thier beliefs. you asked me what religion i was. i said the word beliefs does not necessarily imply a religion, am i wrong here?

No, you are not wrong. Believes can imply religion, but does not imply 100%.

 

[jaded]

I hope to have children one day, and if I have sons, I won't have them circumcised. If, when they're older, they choose to have it done themselves, that's their business, but I'll leave that decision to them...

 

[BrothaBill]

Shit, Ult, we can do and do do open heart surgery on infants without anesthetic, cutting the chest open and filleting like disecting them like a biology class frog with no anesthetic is by far more painful than a circumcision. The infant has whats called a "Tabula Rasa" a blank slate, it has no reference point to judge what pain is, it simply doesnt exist in its mind b/c the mind is empty, the existance of pain in their mind can be likened to what colors look like in a colorblind person's mind, they simply are just some electrical impulses but there is no formed associations or attachments to the notion of pain. Its lil more than a minute spark of bioelectricity at that point, it means nothing, just a simple electrical current to an empty tabula rasa. Surgeries are done invitro all the time and since its still in the mother, no anesthetic. Its actually a better safer way to correct defects by performing them while the baby is in the womb for a number of reasons including cosmetic alterations of birth defects b/c no scarring remains. Can view things egocentrically, what does a baby know or feel, you can view that as to how a thirty year old man might feel if they were to have it done, or view it as the baby being tortured, just another notion of the man.

 

[spongebob]

No, you are not wrong. Believes can imply religion, but does not imply 100%.

and that is what i said thank you very much.

 

[BrothaBill]

and that is what i said thank you very much.

LOL, words and peoples meanings of them, dude, why are you arguing zen matters like that. Words are just variables meanings are completely irrelevant except to the person who uses them, logic goes out the window, its intuitive knowledge remember

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

Shit, Ult, we can do and do do open heart surgery on infants without anesthetic, cutting the chest open and filleting like disecting them like a biology class frog with no anesthetic is by far more painful than a circumcision. The infant has whats called a "Tabula Rasa" a blank slate, it has no reference point to judge what pain is, it simply doesnt exist in its mind b/c the mind is empty, the existance of pain in their mind can be likened to what colors look like in a colorblind person's mind, they simply are just some electrical impulses but there is no formed associations or attachments to the notion of pain. Its lil more than a minute spark of bioelectricity at that point, it means nothing, just a simple electrical current to an empty tabula rasa. Surgeries are done invitro all the time and since its still in the mother, no anesthetic. Its actually a better safer way to correct defects by performing them while the baby is in the womb for a number of reasons including cosmetic alterations of birth defects b/c no scarring remains. Can view things egocentrically, what does a baby know or feel, you can view that as to how a thirty year old man might feel if they were to have it done, or view it as the baby being tortured, just another notion of the man.

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1f21e.htm

This study demonstrates two important findings," says Dr. Koren. "It shows that infants do in fact feel pain, and that their pain is not short-lived, as previously thought. Consequently, adequate pain relief should be routinely used during circumcision and any other medical and surgical procedures where pain is possible."

 

[spongebob]

LOL, words and peoples meanings of them, dude, why are you arguing zen matters like that. Words are just variables meanings are completely irrelevant except to the person who uses them, logic goes out the window, its intuitive knowledge remember

well, the most simplest mistakes are the most important to me.

your right, i wasted time on this thread when i could have been polishing my cut chrome dome.

 

[spongebob]

i cant return the green ult, but ive always given you green anyways.

but peace to you and your penis, cut or uncut. and your opinins.

 

[BrothaBill]

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1f21e.htm

LMFAO!! Now thats what I was referring to as junk science earlier in the thread, there are so many wrong with that study and what it was trying to measure. I also was going to ask you, since words are variables, what your definition of pain was since if we dont even understand each other's basic terminology then all discussion that flow are moot.

SO I was going to ask you to define the term 'pain'. Try and do so, what is it? Thats the first logical step in a discussion, set the variables to meanings. When I did research the overwhelming amount of work was the statistical analysis of how and what variables we were going to set. I mean we just could write in ebonics a set of criteria to question, we had to have it linked through setup research experiments to confirm validation and specificity.

So the question remains what it PAIN? What I was saying it was was at that point no attachments or frame of reference to know what it means b/c the brain was a tabula rasa or a blank slate, its like color stimuli to a colorblind person. It doesnt exist. The only concept of pain is that of another person and what they put the meaning of it based on their beliefs of what pain is. Clearly completely unrelated to actual truth of what pain is to the infant. Its a simple thought process of someone else. Thats how you have to approach research, what is that you are trying to study, there is no way to study pain perception of an infant, its just not possible, they might as well been reading an astrology book on how to conduct the junk science that you just posted for me. They can NOT even come close to knowing what pain is in an infant b/c at that point in the empty tabula rasa there is no reference to assign the simple electrical signals that flow from the nerve stimulations.

That whole article is where science is used to try and shade or bias the truth. Just look at how they assign the word "PAIN", its absolutely hilarious on how they assess the level of pain of the infant. I mean, hilarious, truly junk science classic.

Pain response was measured by monitoring facial expression, duration of crying, blood pressure, and heart rate. In addition, parents and the primary care physician completed a questionnaire regarding their perception of the severity of pain the infant was experiencing.

The studying was measuring the perceptions of the parents and PCPs, not the perception of the child. The other measurements are just as subjective as well if you dig into them, especially the "monitoring of facial expressions", LOL, I real objective way of doing research. This study fails wholly in specificity and validity. Gong!

 

[Ulcasterdropout]

i cant return the green ult, but ive always given you green anyways.

but peace to you and your penis, cut or uncut. and your opinins.