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Circumcision - a serious discussion
- Thread starter Lestat
- Start date
E
Elite_Fry
Guest
im going to bed
spongebob
New member
Lestat said:
yes send me W-2's. and whatever else to prove your claim.
didnt you say you made about 25hr?
well yes i agree then, if your gonna include the whole world. you just might be in the top 1%.
and dont take this the wrong way, seriously. college, money, sat scores, dick size.....i just dont give a fuck.
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
Yeah, its hilarious, their weird ass arguments of pure hyperboly are like rock to a crack addict, you just have to take a lil hit and then you know where that leads you.
Its weird, who cares, its a piece of skin that is removed thats all. People build a shrine to the weirdest things
Mandinka2
New member
Post sources for that one...love to hear it but medical literature.BrothaBill said:
No but the clitoris is the equivalent of the phallus. We've all seen Nicole Bass, some of us have seen female-to-male sex change patients.BrothaBill said:
Argument used by doctors who support female circ.Nice company.BrothaBill said:
Wrong ... talk to Africans...they'll give you the exact same reasons given here for male circ. Preference ? Preferences do not cause death ,impotence etc etc.BrothaBill said:
You mean the same societies that circ boys at the age of 14 with flint knives ? I'm ready for that debate. Bring it on.BrothaBill said:
You know that most of the sites that have links to these stats will toe one line or another. That alone does not make them "garbage".BrothaBill said:
For example this one...with references to medical journals :
http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm
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BrothaBill
Guest
Lestat said:
Lets compare
scriptfactory
New member
For the last time:
Smegma = excess lubricant from the Tyson's Glands (or the female equivalent), sweat, stale urine, dead skin cells and collected debris. The "body" of it, so to speak, is made up of dead skin cells mixed with the oily secretion from the Tyson's Glands. If it doesn't buildup then... wait... What the hell am I doing? You aren't even making sense anymore!
Have a nice evening and don't forget to wash your penis.
Smegma = excess lubricant from the Tyson's Glands (or the female equivalent), sweat, stale urine, dead skin cells and collected debris. The "body" of it, so to speak, is made up of dead skin cells mixed with the oily secretion from the Tyson's Glands. If it doesn't buildup then... wait... What the hell am I doing? You aren't even making sense anymore!
Have a nice evening and don't forget to wash your penis.
Mandinka2
New member
LMAO at the second negative karma message from spongebob referencing my dick within a week... I seriously think you've a hardon for me man...
Saying that one does not remember pain does not mean that one has not wronged another. That was the point. I don't do neg karma but have fun with it man.
Saying that one does not remember pain does not mean that one has not wronged another. That was the point. I don't do neg karma but have fun with it man.
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BrothaBill
Guest
Its actually from the memories from the schooling I received to studying medicine, I have no need to root around for links to someone who is not a peer
No, really, what is your point. Not following it at all, I go back to my original statement. The foreskin does not equal clitorus, period. Words are Zen, but for using medical jargon, they are not even close.
I cant believe Im saying this, but again, what is your point? I see words there but no coherent position or statment.
Brilliant debate tactics, instruct the other to go talk to some africans. I believe this is used by the Harvard Debate Society, the go talk to an African card, sorta like the Yale, take a long walk off a short pier gambit.
OK, I get this one, you think that circumcisions are done with flint knives. Gotcha, I can see any effort I put forth would be so constructive on someone who takes your positions and makes your statments. I guess I could send you my library card and you could come back in say a decade with a better foundation of knowledge and understand the proper structure of a debate. Good luck in life though.
My profession is medicine, I understand how to read medical journals. I also understand that just b/c it can be referenced does not mean its peer reviewed and accepted. Gargage sites can find junk science studies b/c theyre everywhere and then use them to tailor their arguments with so called references, when point in fact. All it is is another form of lying, plain and simple. Using bogus and poorly designed studies that the majority of literature on the subject rejects is just as bad as lying, actually worse.
I dont care about it, Im just trying to keep the debate "honest". Seems the people that actually have a position are the only ones distorting facts purposely, the other side makes funny statements out of ignorance, not willful misleading like the uncircumsized side is doing. I could care less but lets keep it above board
T
torqued mass
Guest
you can't grow new foreskin. you can stretch your existing skin to somewhat overlap but that is not the same growing regenerating new skin all together. Or else everyone on here who enjoys being cut would have to go back every 10 years or so and get it done.
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
THERE MUST BE SOMEWAY OUTTA HERE
Said the joker to the thief
There’s too much confusion
I can’t get no relief
Businessman they drink my wine
Plow men dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth
Hey hey
No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour’s getting late
Hey
Hey
All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Bare-foot servants to, but huh
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin’
And the wind began to howl
Hey
Oh
All along the watchtower
Hear you sing around the watch
Gotta beware gotta beware I will
Yeah
Ooh baby
All along the watchtower
Mandinka2
New member
That's sweet ... your memories versus medical refs... you expect Lestat to produce something you are unwilling to provide yourself. Not alone arrogant but pompous too. Not to mention hypocritical. Some scientist.BrothaBill said:
Actually i was agreeing with you there. Clitoris is not equivalent to foreskin.BrothaBill said:
The fact that the clitoris is from an evolutionary perspective redundant is a poor argument for it's removal. The same argument is made repeatedly by proponents of both male and female circ.BrothaBill said:
I believe this is called the "I have no answer to that so I'll just bullshit" argument. I could post some references to African doctors but Im sure you've no interest....that's what I mean - you're unwilling to debate on an equal footing because of your or my "peerage" - I mean why post here at all - ust stay on a doctor's message board!BrothaBill said:
A swing and a miss!BrothaBill said:
Try me... Go on majority of literature...you post it...ill read it...but oh yeh I forgot you've no need to "root around for links to someone who is not a peer"... lmao... with attitudes like that think of how little progress the bodybuilding commnity would have made with AAS!BrothaBill said:
You come across as real neutral ...kinda like Spongebob tried to at the start...now he's pro-circ...no shit!BrothaBill said:
Not even bothered to attempt the basic question posted by FastTwitchFiber - why not wait until the kid is old enough for himself to decide ?
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
As He Came Into The Window
It Was The Sound Of A
Crescendo
He Came Into Her Apartment
He Left The Bloodstains On
The Carpet
She Ran Underneath The Table
He Could See She Was Unable
So She Ran Into The Bedroom
She Was Struck Down, It Was
Her Doom
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok, Are You Ok, Annie
(Annie Are You Ok)
(Will You Tell Us That You're
Ok)
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
(He Left The Bloodstains On
The Carpet)
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom)
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
You've Been Hit By
You've Been Hit By-
A Smooth Criminal
So They Came Into The
Outway
It Was Sunday-What A Black
Day
Mouth To Mouth Resus-
Citation
Sounding Heartbeats-
Intimidations
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
(Annie Are You Ok)
(Will You Tell Us That You're
Ok)
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
(He Left The Bloodstains On The Carpet)
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom)
(Annie Are You Ok)
(So, Annie Are You Ok)
(Are You Ok Annie)
(You've Been Hit By)
(You've Been Struck By-
A Smooth Criminal)
Okay, I Want Everybody To
Clear The Area Right Now!
Aaow!
(Annie Are You Ok)
I Don't Know!
(Will You Tell Us, That
You're Ok)
I Don't Know!
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
I Don't Know!
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
I Don't Know!
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
I Don't Know!
(Left Bloodstains On The
Carpet)
I Don't Know Why Baby!
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
I Don't Know!
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom-Annie!)
(Annie Are You Ok)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(Will You Tell Us, That
You're Ok)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
Hoo! Hoo!
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
Dad Gone It!
(Left Bloodstains On The
Carpet)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
Doggone It!
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom-Annie!)
Aaow!!!
Lets talk science, give me SCIENTIFIC reasons why circumcisions should be performed?BrothaBill said:
The nerve endings in the penis, specifically the skin surrounding the glands (head) is where the ejaculatory trigger is.
How can you say it doesn't affect anyone in any appreciable way? Have you had it both ways?
"The average adult foreskin consists of 1½ inches of outer skin, 1½ inches of inner mucosal lining – totaling a length of 3 inches – and is 5 inches in circumference when erect. This amounts to a surface area of 15 square inches, or a surface area equivalent to that of a 3" by 5" inch index card!"
Maybe that skin on your penis isn't a big deal to yo, but to the general population, including the scientific community it is, period.
"The foreskin has rich sensations in and of itself. The foreskin also plays a mechanical-lubrication role. It serves as a gliding sheath during masturbation or sexual activity, rendering the quality of the friction between the man and his partner more gentle, less abrasive. This is useful to the woman, especially with prolonged intercourse and especially with age, when she provides less liquid lubrication. With circumcision, this natural gliding mechanism is lost. "
"The foreskin contains over 240 feet of nerves and over 1,000 nerve endings, as well as being a highly vascularized structure. "
The AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR PEDIATRICS stately plainly in 1999 that they see no medical reason to reccomend it.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Mandinka2 said:
Funny how I find myself
If I could buy my reasoning
I would pay to lose
One half won't do
I've asked myself how much do you
Commit yourself
It's my life
Don't you forget
It's my life
It never ends
Funny how I blind myself
I never knew
If I was sometimes played upon
Afraid to lose
I would tell myself what good you do
Convince myself
It's my life
Don't you forget
It's my life
It never ends
I would ask myself how much do you
Commit yourself
It's my life
Don't you forget
Caught in the crowd
It never ends
I'm not saying you should give a fuck, all I am saying is that most times, its nice being a bit better then the rest in a world full of medoicrity and people who can't think for themselves, but sometimes it just gets fucking depressing.spongebob said:
I can see why the Jewish religion started circumcising back in the times before Christ, there was no SOAP, no regular chances to bathe, SMEGMA was fucking nasty.
But guess what folks, we are a supposedly civilized country now, there is no need to chop off a piece of baby boy's penises at birth. NO REASON.
Anyday man... I'll start with my education, I can post pics of degrees if needed.BrothaBill said:
B.S. Psychology (emphasis in Bio and Behavioral) 2000. Univeristy of California at San Diego
M.S. Interactive Telecommunications 2002 University of Redlands. (3.62 gpa)
As far as money goes, current hourly rate of pay $28.48, over 100K in net worth, mostly stock.
I'm 28.
Mandinka2
New member
I prolly come across a little to folks on the other side like im foamin at the mouth here....not at all tho...DIVISION said:
Imagine if im right about this then you have to see this as sexual abuse. IN that light you understand a little why folks might take a less than conciliatory tone - don't mean to offend people here but this whole thing of cutting foreskins off is so daft...
spongebob
New member
Lestat said:
man your freaking me out, youve never taken up any issue here like this before. and its about penis'.
to be honest, i detect a change i your writing style and the personality behind it. very subtle. does this have anything to do with your alters?????
may not be a reason you agree with but there is a reason. or it wouldnt happen.
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BrothaBill
Guest
Pretty sweet isnt it?
Then we agree, I knew I could at least get that out of the folks arguing that genital mutilation in muslim societies is akin to circumcision. Thats the crux of the issue, everything flows from there, now just follow it.
Whose talking about removal of a clitorus, thats the antithesis to all of my statements, so obviously any argument for the removal of a clitorus would be poor LOL
Who cares what propents argue, discard them on your search for the truth
Bingo, I have NOT taken a position so I can say whatever I want, you see, my debate strategy ensures that I can never lose b/c there is nothing to lose. A person that engages with a person such as myself inevitably finds themselves tilting at windmills, makes a gaff and then is opened up to having their position picked apart. Taking a position ensures loss.
What was I trying to hit?
Now youre getting it!
Why would I bother to answer questions when they are irrelevant, its all ZEN, that is your first lesson you will get from talking to me. Its all ZEN, MAN! The answer is within you, always has been.
What is Zen? (the simple question)
Zen is short for Zen Buddhism. It is sometimes called a religion and sometimes called a philosophy. Choose whichever term you prefer; it simply doesn't matter.
In a nutshell, he realized that everything is subject to change and that suffering and discontentment are the result of attachment to circumstances and things which, by their nature, are impermanent. By ridding oneself of these attachments, including attachment to the false notion of self or "I", one can be free of suffering.
What is Zen? (the real question)
This question basically asks "What is the essence of Zen?". It appears in various guises throughout Zen literature, from "What is the meaning of Bodhidharma's coming from the West?" to "Have you eaten yet?". The question cuts right to the heart of the matter and can only be answered by you. Perhaps the best answer is "practice".
Why do people post such nonsense to this group?
One of the central points of Zen is intuitive understanding. As a result, words and sentences have no fixed meaning, and logic is often irrelevant. Words have meaning only in relation to who is using them, who they are talking to, and what situation they are used in. Some postings are indeed nonsense; other postings appear to be nonsense at first but this is because the meaning is all between the lines.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Lestat said:
1
And all of germany rallied behind hitler to kill the jews.. I am sure they had a reason to.spongebob said:
I just love that argument.. "So many people are doing it, there just HAS to be a good reason for it!"
A lot of people have done lots of stupid things in the past, just because others make a stupid uninformed, misguided mistake does mean we all need to follow suit.
No change in personality here, its just one of those times in life where you are just a little ahead of the times and I'm frustrated that everyone else can't catch up fast enough. In 50 years the circumcision rate in the use will be 1/3 of what it is now, I can promise you that.
And all of germany rallied behind hitler to kill the jews.. I am sure they had a reason to.spongebob said:
I just love that argument.. "So many people are doing it, there just HAS to be a good reason for it!"
A lot of people have done lots of stupid things in the past, just because others make a stupid uninformed, misguided mistake does mean we all need to follow suit.
No change in personality here, its just one of those times in life where you are just a little ahead of the times and I'm frustrated that everyone else can't catch up fast enough. In 50 years the circumcision rate in the us will be 1/3 of what it is now, I can promise you that.
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BrothaBill
Guest
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BrothaBill
Guest
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B
BrothaBill
Guest
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Mandinka2
New member
Words and sentences have no fixed meaning ??? PLease someone delete this fool!BrothaBill said:
Actually I like your first sentence of the quote...it appeals to reason. EVERY mammal (the highest phyla there is) on the face of this planet has a foreskin , EVERY ONE... I take it you believe in evolution or is that ZEN too ? Oh man...we could talk bs until 10 tomoro morning and believe me I've spent some time in phiosophical circles but let's try to keep this one in the realm of the linear.PEace.
yeah I get a bonus two times per year... anywhere between 1500 and 3000...spongebob said:
stock options are the real kicker though, over 5000 shares prices at a few bucks (stock is currently around $35). That's where the dough is really made, and the only reason I've stayed in Cali.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Mandinka2 said:
What is God to you?
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
I have a black scar from a fucked up circ. I wish I was left the way I was supposed to be, not strapped down as an infant and had part of my penis cut off...
spongebob
New member
Lestat said:
now your reaching a bit and assumming what i meant. i said there is a reason, i didnt say the reason. individuals have thier own reason, that is all i meant. your the one who said there is no reason for it.
i just said there is a reason, may not be one you agree with.
dont assume and dont put thoughts into my words.
well then make another thread in 50 yrs.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Mandinka2 said:
Register at my board in my sig. and go to the Zen seminar and you'll find the thread there. Its a slower format allowing for more reasoned discussion over time. Ill make it right now.
spongebob
New member
Mandinka2 said:
lmao! the problem is you think too much. i guarentee you i am nuetral. once we got going, i just pushed your buttons. obviously it worked, since you think im pro-circ.
im pro me. i honestly dont give a fuck what YOU do with yourself or your kids. i just dont give a fuck.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Mandinka2 said:
No, really, I couldnt care less, just having some fun, when I get into debates taking no side it always leads back to me posting on the meaning of Zen. LOL
YOU ARE CAUGHT IN A ZEN VORTEX!!!
Ok so let me be clear.spongebob said:
We are really advocating a procedure where the tip of a newborn baby's penis is cut off, without their permission, potentially reducing sexual pleasure for the entire lifetime because.....
it looks good and people THINK its cleaner?
Don't we invade other countries to put a stop to that type of shit?
spongebob
New member
Lestat said:
well nothing is free. but i understand. compensation packages include all benefits, that is what is looked at, the package. right.
sounds pretty good though. but still your tax bracket penis must be high.
just saying, not sure if that puts you in the top 1%, if so i guess im there to and where i live its real cheap.
yeah not top 1% of all wage earners in the US, not yet at least, but worldwide, certainly.spongebob said:well nothing is free. but i understand. compensation packages include all benefits, that is what is looked at, the package. right.
sounds pretty good though. but still your tax bracket penis must be high.
just saying, not sure if that puts you in the top 1%, if so i guess im there to and where i live its real cheap.
B
BrothaBill
Guest
Lestat said:
Yeah, thats weird b/c I can argue all positions and only the individual reads their own zen meaning into what I stand for. You see all of this is a subjective experience and interpretation. Hence by definition, it is Zen, reread the definition of what Zen means, then you'll understand my position. By taking no concrete position I can say whatever, it simply doesnt matter. If one argument fails, I just go to another, it just goes in circles til the other person who runs out of room with their concrete postition realizes that I was messing with their head.
I still claim no position, that simple.
I once argued affirmative action with someone for two hours so that I could tell a joke, it had a great punchline. I finally got him to ask "Goddamit, what's a quota?" And I said a quota is twentyfive cents. He just instantly realized that I was just messing with him the whole time. He called me such an asshole, which made me laugh even harder.
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BrothaBill
Guest
Id love to have a hookup with you two, Lestat and Spongebob. Thatd be awesome, turn the mutha out!
spongebob
New member
Lestat said:
i already told you no need to go further with me. i honestly dont care. it was a fun thread.
but this i my opinion. i will make all decisions for my kids. period. i give the permission.
i think it looks better. penis. and yes in a society based on looks i would want my kid to feel the best about themselves. and yes i believe some would have a complex about it.
yes i think its cleaner, not that uncut cant be as clean.
i really dont think it could be proven either way who has the most senstion and better orgasm. i do know this. i am cut, i have a large penis, i fuck ike the italian i am and it is very sensitive. thank you very much.
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
My penis is bigger than yours Im sure b/c Im like a half a foot taller so your penis would be lost in my shadow
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
I have fourteen letters behind mine. Doesnt make me any smarter, thats all a matter of one's perspective and subjective interpretation
B
BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
Wouldnt it blow people minds if they found out that all three handles, BB, SB and Lestat was all the same person behind them all. LOL
The whole karma wars staged by the same person and the other shenanigans. Just one guy.
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BrothaBill
Guest
Lestat said:
Ive been to San Diego about prolly ten times, I love visiting there, its been long enough I think. I keep saying that Im going to go back down there. San Diego would be great, just dont know when. I know Texas sux so thats out.
LOL, you know that this argument had no winners before you started the thread. Not enough people care enough about it and it always reverts back to societal norms, interesting variation with the circumcision though, it went ten pages and it was fun, I wouldnt call it a failure LOL
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
Dont smurf around, you mothasmurfa!!
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
LOL, dude, when I was in Amarillo it cured me of wanting to be in Texas. LOL, no really its such a huge place you'd just have to take me to some cool places and stuff.
Yeah, this reminds me of some the older days of EF where you could f**k around alot more and no one took it seriously.
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BrothaBill
Guest
spongebob said:
I worked South of San Fran in San Luis Obispo and I dont think I ever went to Sanfran despite the email you traced to me at that hospital. I think I drove through there. Never felt a reason to go check it out.
Yeah, we should meet up and go to plateau four for some fun. A psychonaut mission
spongebob
New member
BrothaBill said:
well the thing about tx is everyone remembers the bad shit. lol.
your right its huge. everything is here. flat land, hill country, rivers to ride, the gulf of mexico, well i live in a shithole.lol. but i can drive. but i dont go anywhere to often. if i did i would go to cool places.
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