Circumcision - a serious discussion

[BrothaBill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
Every bit of skin has nerve endings, removing tissue from the penis in a circumcision does not affect sexual appreciation if done correctly in any appreciable manner.


Post sources for that one...love to hear it but medical literature.

Its actually from the memories from the schooling I received to studying medicine, I have no need to root around for links to someone who is not a peer

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
No, not what I assume you are saying, certainly we can break it down to GCAT and build from there, but that is a poor endevour on your part, foreskin does not equal clitorus, I warn you to not try and argue that, Ill smoke you foo, just like being up a kindergartner if you continue down that path, tatoo it to your dick...foreskin is not the male equivalent of the clitorus period!!!

No but the clitoris is the equivalent of the phallus. We've all seen Nicole Bass, some of us have seen female-to-male sex change patients.

No, really, what is your point. Not following it at all, I go back to my original statement. The foreskin does not equal clitorus, period. Words are Zen, but for using medical jargon, they are not even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
The clitorus is described by most as a evolutional redundant penis



Argument used by doctors who support female circ.Nice company.

I cant believe Im saying this, but again, what is your point? I see words there but no coherent position or statment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
Wrong
Thats where we disagree, having a foreskin or not having one, who really cares, it doesnt affect the person in any appreciable way. Its a preference, thats all. The argument for female mutilation of the clitorus and hood is to prevent to experience the enjoyment of sex.


Wrong ... talk to Africans...they'll give you the exact same reasons given here for male circ. Preference ? Preferences do not cause death ,impotence etc etc.

Brilliant debate tactics, instruct the other to go talk to some africans. I believe this is used by the Harvard Debate Society, the go talk to an African card, sorta like the Yale, take a long walk off a short pier gambit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
Its to prevent them from having a reason to cheat on their husbands. These are done in the most brutal and oppresive societies that subjugate women and treat them like cattle with little or no rights. The same cultures that also have honor killings where if the female of the family goes astray it is to the honor of the family to have her brothers, father, uncles, cousins kill her to maintain honor. The sociological differences alone involved with female mutilation are enormous. I cannot believe Lestat that you are being intellectually honest about comparing the two. I mean, cmon, really, so you like foreskins. But do you actually know what is wholistically involved with what you are comparing and contrasting, I know you do. I think that you are arguing folly but Id be interested to see you make those comparisons. Trust me, you cannot win that debate, but itd be a spirited exercise in reason if youd like. Im in an unusual mood as of late.



You mean the same societies that circ boys at the age of 14 with flint knives ? I'm ready for that debate. Bring it on.

OK, I get this one, you think that circumcisions are done with flint knives. Gotcha, I can see any effort I put forth would be so constructive on someone who takes your positions and makes your statments. I guess I could send you my library card and you could come back in say a decade with a better foundation of knowledge and understand the proper structure of a debate. Good luck in life though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrothaBill
Links please, I fail to see how anyone with a clue could surmise that having a circumcision would prevent masturbation. Sounds like some garbage off an anticircumcision website. Lets not talk junk science here.



You know that most of the sites that have links to these stats will toe one line or another. That alone does not make them "garbage".
For example this one...with references to medical journals :
http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm

My profession is medicine, I understand how to read medical journals. I also understand that just b/c it can be referenced does not mean its peer reviewed and accepted. Gargage sites can find junk science studies b/c theyre everywhere and then use them to tailor their arguments with so called references, when point in fact. All it is is another form of lying, plain and simple. Using bogus and poorly designed studies that the majority of literature on the subject rejects is just as bad as lying, actually worse.

I dont care about it, Im just trying to keep the debate "honest". Seems the people that actually have a position are the only ones distorting facts purposely, the other side makes funny statements out of ignorance, not willful misleading like the uncircumsized side is doing. I could care less but lets keep it above board

 

[spongebob]

Just what kind of pipe are you sucking?

yea, sure.

 

[torqued mass]

you can't grow new foreskin. you can stretch your existing skin to somewhat overlap but that is not the same growing regenerating new skin all together. Or else everyone on here who enjoys being cut would have to go back every 10 years or so and get it done.

 

[BrothaBill]

yea, sure.

THERE MUST BE SOMEWAY OUTTA HERE
Said the joker to the thief
There’s too much confusion
I can’t get no relief
Businessman they drink my wine
Plow men dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth
Hey hey

No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour’s getting late
Hey

Hey

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Bare-foot servants to, but huh
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin’
And the wind began to howl
Hey
Oh
All along the watchtower
Hear you sing around the watch
Gotta beware gotta beware I will
Yeah
Ooh baby
All along the watchtower

 

[Mandinka2]

Its actually from the memories from the schooling I received to studying medicine, I have no need to root around for links to someone who is not a peer

That's sweet ... your memories versus medical refs... you expect Lestat to produce something you are unwilling to provide yourself. Not alone arrogant but pompous too. Not to mention hypocritical. Some scientist.

No, really, what is your point. Not following it at all, I go back to my original statement. The foreskin does not equal clitorus, period. Words are Zen, but for using medical jargon, they are not even close.

Actually i was agreeing with you there. Clitoris is not equivalent to foreskin.

I cant believe Im saying this, but again, what is your point? I see words there but no coherent position or statment.

The fact that the clitoris is from an evolutionary perspective redundant is a poor argument for it's removal. The same argument is made repeatedly by proponents of both male and female circ.

Brilliant debate tactics, instruct the other to go talk to some africans. I believe this is used by the Harvard Debate Society, the go talk to an African card, sorta like the Yale, take a long walk off a short pier gambit.

I believe this is called the "I have no answer to that so I'll just bullshit" argument. I could post some references to African doctors but Im sure you've no interest....that's what I mean - you're unwilling to debate on an equal footing because of your or my "peerage" - I mean why post here at all - ust stay on a doctor's message board!

OK, I get this one, you think that circumcisions are done with flint knives. Gotcha, I can see any effort I put forth would be so constructive on someone who takes your positions and makes your statments. I guess I could send you my library card and you could come back in say a decade with a better foundation of knowledge and understand the proper structure of a debate. Good luck in life though.

A swing and a miss!

My profession is medicine, I understand how to read medical journals. I also understand that just b/c it can be referenced does not mean its peer reviewed and accepted. Gargage sites can find junk science studies b/c theyre everywhere and then use them to tailor their arguments with so called references, when point in fact. All it is is another form of lying, plain and simple. Using bogus and poorly designed studies that the majority of literature on the subject rejects is just as bad as lying, actually worse.

Try me... Go on majority of literature...you post it...ill read it...but oh yeh I forgot you've no need to "root around for links to someone who is not a peer"... lmao... with attitudes like that think of how little progress the bodybuilding commnity would have made with AAS!

I dont care about it, Im just trying to keep the debate "honest". Seems the people that actually have a position are the only ones distorting facts purposely, the other side makes funny statements out of ignorance, not willful misleading like the uncircumsized side is doing. I could care less but lets keep it above board

You come across as real neutral ...kinda like Spongebob tried to at the start...now he's pro-circ...no shit!

Not even bothered to attempt the basic question posted by FastTwitchFiber - why not wait until the kid is old enough for himself to decide ?

 

[spongebob]

THERE MUST BE SOMEWAY OUTTA HERE
Said the joker to the thief
There’s too much confusion
I can’t get no relief
Businessman they drink my wine
Plow men dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth
Hey hey

No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour’s getting late
Hey

Hey

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Bare-foot servants to, but huh
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin’
And the wind began to howl
Hey
Oh
All along the watchtower
Hear you sing around the watch
Gotta beware gotta beware I will
Yeah
Ooh baby
All along the watchtower

i didnt see the word penis in there one time.

 

[BrothaBill]

i didnt see the word penis in there one time.

As He Came Into The Window
It Was The Sound Of A
Crescendo
He Came Into Her Apartment
He Left The Bloodstains On
The Carpet
She Ran Underneath The Table
He Could See She Was Unable
So She Ran Into The Bedroom
She Was Struck Down, It Was
Her Doom

Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok, Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok, Are You Ok, Annie

(Annie Are You Ok)
(Will You Tell Us That You're
Ok)
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
(He Left The Bloodstains On
The Carpet)
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom)

Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
You've Been Hit By
You've Been Hit By-
A Smooth Criminal

So They Came Into The
Outway
It Was Sunday-What A Black
Day
Mouth To Mouth Resus-
Citation
Sounding Heartbeats-
Intimidations

Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie
Annie Are You Ok
So, Annie Are You Ok
Are You Ok Annie

(Annie Are You Ok)
(Will You Tell Us That You're
Ok)
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
(He Left The Bloodstains On The Carpet)
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom)

(Annie Are You Ok)
(So, Annie Are You Ok)
(Are You Ok Annie)
(You've Been Hit By)
(You've Been Struck By-
A Smooth Criminal)

Okay, I Want Everybody To
Clear The Area Right Now!

Aaow!
(Annie Are You Ok)
I Don't Know!
(Will You Tell Us, That
You're Ok)
I Don't Know!
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
I Don't Know!
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
I Don't Know!
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
I Don't Know!
(Left Bloodstains On The
Carpet)
I Don't Know Why Baby!
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
I Don't Know!
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom-Annie!)
(Annie Are You Ok)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(Will You Tell Us, That
You're Ok)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(There's A Sign In The
Window)
Dad Gone It-Baby!
(That He Struck You-A
Crescendo Annie)
Hoo! Hoo!
(He Came Into Your
Apartment)
Dad Gone It!
(Left Bloodstains On The
Carpet)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
(Then You Ran Into The
Bedroom)
Doggone It!
(You Were Struck Down)
(It Was Your Doom-Annie!)
Aaow!!!

 

[Mandinka2]

I feel like I'm arguin with the Eagles here....

 

[Lestat]

Every bit of skin has nerve endings, removing tissue from the penis in a circumcision does not affect sexual appreciation if done correctly in any appreciable manner. Anyone that claims otherwise is biased. Links to medical literature that backs up the six square inches claim. Im not talking some website that has a bug up their ass about circumcisions. Im talking something that I would turn to look up professional medical queries. Lets throw out the talking points



No, not what I assume you are saying, certainly we can break it down to GCAT and build from there, but that is a poor endevour on your part, foreskin does not equal clitorus, I warn you to not try and argue that, Ill smoke you foo, just like being up a kindergartner if you continue down that path, tatoo it to your dick...foreskin is not the male equivalent of the clitorus period!!!



Yeah, are we going to argue nerve endings here, since nerve endings are everywhere in the skin with the least in the skin of the elbow, lets break it down to DNA sequencing. That makes more sense, I can at least argue that and make a better point on sexual organs



Not the ones Ive met at least
The clitorus is described by most as a evolutional redundant penis


Wrong
Thats where we disagree, having a foreskin or not having one, who really cares, it doesnt affect the person in any appreciable way. Its a preference, thats all. The argument for female mutilation of the clitorus and hood is to prevent to experience the enjoyment of sex. Its to prevent them from having a reason to cheat on their husbands. These are done in the most brutal and oppresive societies that subjugate women and treat them like cattle with little or no rights. The same cultures that also have honor killings where if the female of the family goes astray it is to the honor of the family to have her brothers, father, uncles, cousins kill her to maintain honor. The sociological differences alone involved with female mutilation are enormous. I cannot believe Lestat that you are being intellectually honest about comparing the two. I mean, cmon, really, so you like foreskins. But do you actually know what is wholistically involved with what you are comparing and contrasting, I know you do. I think that you are arguing folly but Id be interested to see you make those comparisons. Trust me, you cannot win that debate, but itd be a spirited exercise in reason if youd like. Im in an unusual mood as of late.



Links please, I fail to see how anyone with a clue could surmise that having a circumcision would prevent masturbation. Sounds like some garbage off an anticircumcision website. Lets not talk junk science here.


Like most issues, I really couldnt care less but it is endlessly hilarious watching people distort truths and reality to build their argument for change, theyve learned the principles of marketing it seems. Marketing and "selling" their ideas with half truths. Circumcision is a simple medical procedure and done for aesthetic reasons, its that simple. There is nothing more. There are more direct thought experiments to understand cultures and societies and the silliness of societal norms than to use circumcisions as the core issue to flush out the sociological debate. But if you want to, hey, whatever

Lets talk science, give me SCIENTIFIC reasons why circumcisions should be performed?

The nerve endings in the penis, specifically the skin surrounding the glands (head) is where the ejaculatory trigger is.

How can you say it doesn't affect anyone in any appreciable way? Have you had it both ways?

"The average adult foreskin consists of 1½ inches of outer skin, 1½ inches of inner mucosal lining – totaling a length of 3 inches – and is 5 inches in circumference when erect. This amounts to a surface area of 15 square inches, or a surface area equivalent to that of a 3" by 5" inch index card!"

Maybe that skin on your penis isn't a big deal to yo, but to the general population, including the scientific community it is, period.

"The foreskin has rich sensations in and of itself. The foreskin also plays a mechanical-lubrication role. It serves as a gliding sheath during masturbation or sexual activity, rendering the quality of the friction between the man and his partner more gentle, less abrasive. This is useful to the woman, especially with prolonged intercourse and especially with age, when she provides less liquid lubrication. With circumcision, this natural gliding mechanism is lost. "

"The foreskin contains over 240 feet of nerves and over 1,000 nerve endings, as well as being a highly vascularized structure. "

The AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR PEDIATRICS stately plainly in 1999 that they see no medical reason to reccomend it.

 

[DIVISION]

I feel like I'm arguin with the Eagles here....

Let it go Mandinka2......let it go, man......

go easy, man..........go easy.....

There's a nice open market you can stroll through, Germany is full of delights.



DIV