Change up my LIfting Style

[miked8c]

So for the past year I have been lifting 5 reps and under and have made great gains, building myself a very solid and powerful foundation. I have been lifting with programs geared to strength gains, here are my stats.

BW: 195
Bench:285
Squat:405x2
Deadlift:450
Height: 5'8

I know these aren't thaty impressive but I am thinking of making a change in my training style to that more alike BBing. I dont really know anything about HST, or even if HST is used for BBing but I think I have the strength to make a transition to a BBing type program. Any and all input appreciated.

 

[Tblock1]

you can say that again man very unimpressive lifts for sure. lol jk! When did you get a 450 deadlift btw I thought you'd never gotten over a measly 425? Not sure about programs personally I think you did so well with the 5x5 you might just want to run it again

 

[nabolic]

I transitioned from powerlifting to bodybuilding a couple years ago. I found myself in a similar situation and hit a major roadblock for a couple months in my BB training. Its a whole different ball game when training for BB and not training for pure power...But.....I started incorporating jump stretch bands and chains back into my workout regime, but keep the reps from around 5-8 (instead of the 1-3 associated w powerlifting) around once a month for each body part. Band training is very hard on your joints and tendons, but only training each bodypart with some sort of band training once a month will confuse the shit out of your muscles. Muscle confusion is critical when training for BB and it will stimulate them to start growing. Sometimes you just need a little change.

 

[ExtraMile]

I would up your volume on everything basically. This doesnt mean you have to do 5 sets of 15 reps or whatever for every muscle though. You could start 20 rep squatting that would be a big change to what your doing now. Dependign on the exercise I would do more or less sets, for example if I work up to an all out set of 20+ rep squats I probably wont do anymore sets after that. But if I do a set of 20 reps on the lateral raise, I could easily do 3 sets of 20. I have done 50 rep squats once and let me tell you I didnt not want to do another leg exercise at all lol!

Dont go crazy on deadlift volume though.

But if 5x5 has been working why change?!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Personally I think bodybuilding style programs are a waste unless you have the mass to benefit from it.

Your strength is solid, but at 195lbs at 5'8" I would recommend getting stronger and bigger.

The lifts you posted are maxes. I personally wouldn't really start a bodybuilding style program until I could bench at least 275 for 5+ reps. Imo, you get more out of the higher volume/reps when the weights you use are solid.

With a 285 bench you probably could do 3 sets of 8 with 225 to 235 which imo is too low to really benefit from bb style training.

Your squat is closer to what I would consider strong enough to start busting out 10-12 rep squat sets. Not sure what your lifts are like on the shoulder press, curl, chin etc, but as other's have said before, if you can:

generalized numbers:

full squat +315x10
Bench +275x8
deadlift +405x5
Chinup BW+50 or more for 5 depending on weight/fat%
Standing Press +175x5
One Arm DB Row +125x5+
Dip BW+75x5 or more
curl-strict barbell curl 115x5+

Imo if you can push weights like this then you're probably ready to fully benefit from a bodybuilding style program because even using higher reps, less rest you'll still be using decent loads. Also being able to lift these kind of poundages at your height you are likely to be holding a solid amount of mass with which you can better start to scuplt. Lagging bodyparts will come up fast too.

Some, maybe alot of people might disagree with me on these, but this is what I would want to do or more before even considering changing to bodybuilding style training.

If I were to swap to a more bodybuilding style program I would probably use a program like 5-3-1 where you still go heavy on the main compounds like squat, bench, dead, press, but then do 2-3 assistance exercises per workout targeted towards bodybuilding and bringing up your weak points.

I'm currently using the 5-3-1 and because of the way you can customize it you can still make percentage based gains (ie quantifiable progression) on the main lifts, and bb style blitz the assistance for whatever sets/reps you like.

At this point in time I don't think I could totally drop a simple, sound and effective training program with logical progression schemes like 5x5 variations or 5-3-1 for a full on typical bodybuilding style program.


This is just my opinion. Do what you want amigo.

 

[miked8c]

Thanks all. Ghetto your logic is sound, I can't really see my body putting on too much mass if I can only bench solid reps with 225. What if I did something like this, it uses the same numbers that the 5x5 calculator will give me.

Day 1: heavy 5x5 day

Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5

Day 3: 5x5 scheme

Squat 4x5(light)
Military Press 4x5
Deadlift 4x5

Day 5:

Front Squat 4x5, 1x3(Working set)
Floor Press: working up to heavy 3, then heavy 1
Row 4x5, 1x3


Day 6
Could I add an extra day and do arms? I would then have a day of rest between that and my heavy day.


You guys are right who suggested 5x5, I love the 5 rep scheme. Its great for mass and power so I am leaning towards doing that with a slight variation. For those of you who are familiar with 5x5 can you tell me if it would be ok for me to substitute the regular bench on friday for the floor press, and front squat for squat? To keep things mixed up,

 

[SouthernLord]

Use a split. I like....

Chest/bis
Quads/hams/calves
Shoulder/tris
Off
Back/traps
Off
Off

Still train your main lifts in the 3-8 rep range, but throw in higher rep back off sets. Train all your accessory or isolation exercises at a higher rep range. Don't be afraid to mix it up. Drop sets, extended sets, and rest pause sets a few times per week to mix it up.

This split allows me to work both squats and DLs hard in the same week.

 

[miked8c]

SL is there anyway you could throw some exercises and reps into that so I could have an idea what it would look like?

 

[Tblock1]

Thanks all. Ghetto your logic is sound, I can't really see my body putting on too much mass if I can only bench solid reps with 225. What if I did something like this, it uses the same numbers that the 5x5 calculator will give me.

Day 1: heavy 5x5 day

Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5

Day 3: 5x5 scheme

Squat 4x5(light)
Military Press 4x5
Deadlift 4x5

Day 5:

Front Squat 4x5, 1x3(Working set)
Floor Press: working up to heavy 3, then heavy 1
Row 4x5, 1x3


Day 6
Could I add an extra day and do arms? I would then have a day of rest between that and my heavy day.


You guys are right who suggested 5x5, I love the 5 rep scheme. Its great for mass and power so I am leaning towards doing that with a slight variation. For those of you who are familiar with 5x5 can you tell me if it would be ok for me to substitute the regular bench on friday for the floor press, and front squat for squat? To keep things mixed up,

The only problem I see with you substituting floor press and front squat is you can usually do less on front squats and floor press so how would you figure out the percentages? You definitely could do it though

 

[miked8c]

I would be using different weights for both the front squats and floor press. my reps wouldnt be as rigid on these two exercises and I would just try to SDT progress on these so that they would get my normal squat and bench up.

 

[MsBeverlyHills]

Thanks all. Ghetto your logic is sound, I can't really see my body putting on too much mass if I can only bench solid reps with 225. What if I did something like this, it uses the same numbers that the 5x5 calculator will give me.

Day 1: heavy 5x5 day

Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5

Day 3: 5x5 scheme

Squat 4x5(light)
Military Press 4x5
Deadlift 4x5

Day 5:

Front Squat 4x5, 1x3(Working set)
Floor Press: working up to heavy 3, then heavy 1
Row 4x5, 1x3


Day 6
Could I add an extra day and do arms? I would then have a day of rest between that and my heavy day.


You guys are right who suggested 5x5, I love the 5 rep scheme. Its great for mass and power so I am leaning towards doing that with a slight variation. For those of you who are familiar with 5x5 can you tell me if it would be ok for me to substitute the regular bench on friday for the floor press, and front squat for squat? To keep things mixed up,

Mike- the 5x5 is still a powerlifting routine. bodybuilders generally train in the 8-12 rep range.

Would you rather look stronger than you are or be stronger than you look?

 

[miked8c]

Haha look stronger than I am, I'm happy enough with my numbers now that I dont mind sacrificing some strength gains for a BBing routine.

 

[Tblock1]

Haha look stronger than I am, I'm happy enough with my numbers now that I dont mind sacrificing some strength gains for a BBing routine.

ha so you want to be a showboat......weak as a kitten as thatbloke is always saying but jacked? Mike is falling to the dark side of bodybuilding

 

[miked8c]

ha so you want to be a showboat......weak as a kitten as thatbloke is always saying but jacked? Mike is falling to the dark side of bodybuilding

Haha I knew you would have something to say about this. I feel like a B saying that I want to look beefed up, but I'm sicking of having to prove my strength by lifting(which I am more than capable of doing) I want more people to just know.

 

[Tblock1]

Yeah I get you man. Personally I would go with the 5x5 for 9-12 weeks, get stronger, then switch to a bodybuilding routine and eat masses of food. You'll get that swole on for sure. If you stay at similar bodyfat but add 20 pounds of muscle you'll be fairly jacked for your age. Whats your bw at right now btw?

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Go 5-3-1 and use the bodybuilding assistance template.

This way you're gonna get steady upward progression with the heavy ass compounds which will insure overall size gain over time and then 2-3 bodybuilding exercises after for 3-5 sets each.

I guarantee this will probably trump any typical bodybuilder split in overall effectiveness both in the short run or long term.

Do yourself a favor and just check it out. 5-3-1

 

[SouthernLord]

ha so you want to be a showboat......weak as a kitten as thatbloke is always saying but jacked? Mike is falling to the dark side of bodybuilding

You need to have balance bro.

Would you rather be strong for your size and no one knows you work out because you have no size, or move a decent amount of weight around and look like a lifter even in baggy clothes?

We all have our own personal goals, but even the strongest guys in the world mix it up and do higher volume routines with sub max weights during te training year.

 

[SouthernLord]

I'm also going to go out in a limb here and risk potential flames (I'm right here btw )

You will never reach your full size potential training 5 reps or less all the time.

I've ran the 5x5 multiple times. I always get really strong, but the size gains do not come until after the 5x5 when I go back to more volume.

Everyone knocks high volume body part splits, but I bet all my karma that the biggest strongest guys at your commercial gym train exclusively with high volume splits

 

[miked8c]

Yeah I got the 5-3-1 ebook on myother comp.

I have never been too crazy about it though because it looks like its a little slow on gains. Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate but it does'nt looks like it is an effective program for getting results compared to other popular programs.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Bro you couldn't be further from the truth.

5-3-1 is actually pretty intense in it's simplicity. It has more volume than it appears at first because of the assistance options.

I'm running the 4 day a week version so each major exercise gets hit once every 7 days. Alot of people also like running it 3 days a week so they hit each major exercise every 9 days.

People talk about it being slow on gains, but I honestly I don't think they have even done the program

Here's a quick comparison between it and my last bench workout on linear 5x5.

On the last 5x5 bench day I did 240x5-6 reps np.

I calculated my percentages exactly like Jim Wendler recommends. I tested my maxes. I then dropped to 90% of that number. Then I based my percentages off that 90% number and Jim was spot fuckin on.

On week 3 bench day of my first cycle of 5-3-1 I benched 243.5lbs 9 times and might have gotten a 10th if I had really wanted to.

My next cycle squat and deadlift percentages will be adjusted up 10lbs and bench and press 5lbs.

6 months from now that could mean I'll be benching roughly 275 for reps and squatting 60 more pounds for reps. That doesn't sound like slow progression to me.

Give it a shot. If you push your main lift sets right up close to failure where you have either no more reps left or "maybe" 1 in the tank and hit your assistance hard you will make excellent progress and be looking forward to your deload week every 4th or 5th week.

Try the program seriously for 6 months before you knock it. I've just finished my first 3 week cycle on it and can tell you this is a super program.

 

[Tblock1]

You need to have balance bro.

Would you rather be strong for your size and no one knows you work out because you have no size, or move a decent amount of weight around and look like a lifter even in baggy clothes?

We all have our own personal goals, but even the strongest guys in the world mix it up and do higher volume routines with sub max weights during te training year.

My goal would be to have the lean and ripped look with a decent amount of size and be super strong. Basically it would be sweet to be around 6'1 (my height right now) and 210 with 8-10 percent bf. So anotherwords pretty skinny looking and lean but able to bench 400+ and deadlift 600+. I'd WAY rather be stronger than I look though

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Tblock1, if you could post those numbers you would essentially be a very serious powerlifter. Posting those numbers at 6'1", 210lbs would be some serious shit. Even doing that in a bench shirt would be impressive imo.

And ya, you would be retardedly stronger than first glance would perceive.

 

[Tblock1]

Tblock1, if you could post those numbers you would essentially be a very serious powerlifter. Posting those numbers at 6'1", 210lbs would be some serious shit. Even doing that in a bench shirt would be impressive imo.

And ya, you would be retardedly stronger than first glance would perceive.

Nah I knew another guy that could put up 405 and weighed like 6'2 205 and ran marathons. I'm not saying I'm expecting to get those numbers I'm just saying those are my dream goals.

Here's one of my new favorite benchers on youtube doing 405x6 reps at 194 pounds bw:


And this sgt. in the army doing 405x9 reps, although he's 250 pounds he's natural


There's tons of videos of guys doing 405 at under 200....I'm not saying this automatically means it's easy or something and I'm sure there was tons of steroids hard work and genetics put into the equation I'm just saying it's a possible dream goal not impossible