can someone check this blood test pls

[bowly]

b12-1128 range 211-946
prl-50.9 range 4-15
e2--16.7 range 8-43
dhea-187 range 90-427
25 hydroxyl vit d--21 range 30 n more

high cholest/triglycri/hdl/ldl/vldl
sgpt-47.1 range 5-41

normal range--test/lh/fsh/shbg/thyroid/

have quarter of a pea size dot(semi hard) on the left nipple..mild painfull..no itching no discharge no tenderness at all..

can high cholesterol have caused this lump..or low vit d..or high prl..am confused?

on tamox for now..switching to ralox..don't want to take an ai as e2 is already low..can learned members give me a solution to this problem,as it happens only when I don't workout for a long period..

currently taking no supplements at all..

 

[badguysingh]

U on TRT or was on pct when u took da blood test cause test is pretty high ? whats ur stats??

 

[bowly]

test high?..have not mentioned it..its b12 that's high..testfree n total at normal range.

U on TRT or was on pct when u took da blood test cause test is pretty high ? whats ur stats??

 

[Zyglamail]

Why do people come here and ask for help and make us guess? I just dont get it. Why dont you tell us a little about your history? Have you cycled at all and if so what was it, what dose and for how long? How long have you been off?

Is "prl" prolactin I assume? Its crazy high

 

[stevesmi]

Why do people come here and ask for help and make us guess? I just dont get it. Why dont you tell us a little about your history? Have you cycled at all and if so what was it, what dose and for how long? How long have you been off?

Is "prl" prolactin I assume? Its crazy high

this was my thought too when I saw this thread and avoided it.

its like walking into the doctors office and putting duct tape on your mouth and asking the doc to guess what you are there for. you gotta help us help you

 

[bowly]

zyglmail appreciate ur reply

I have got two gynos in a yr despite being off aas for 1.9 yrs.

have cycled since 2009..test-tbol,eq-tbol,anavar/tbol,test solo.
got gyno after my first cycle when I abruptly stopped novedex-xt..

have got gynos repeating after that but not related to aas..it happens when I put on bf..my prl is high usually but not as high as to warrant an mri for tumours

adex,letro,exemestane has helped me get rid of it in the past..exemestane raloxifene being the best..

so after 21mths off aas how do I get 2 gynos..no supplements besides protein shake and vitamins..

test,lh,fsh,free test,thyroid,shbg,dhea all in mid range..except cholesterol which is out of whack..

can u find any reason linking the high bf.prl and cholesterol to cause this

Why do people come here and ask for help and make us guess? I just dont get it. Why dont you tell us a little about your history? Have you cycled at all and if so what was it, what dose and for how long? How long have you been off?

Is "prl" prolactin I assume? Its crazy high

 

[bowly]

stevesmi glad u responded..

pls tell me what details can I provide besides the ones that I mentioned to zyg.

QUOTE=stevesmi;17377523]this was my thought too when I saw this thread and avoided it.

its like walking into the doctors office and putting duct tape on your mouth and asking the doc to guess what you are there for. you gotta help us help you[/QUOTE]

 

[Zyglamail]

zyglmail appreciate ur reply

I have got two gynos in a yr despite being off aas for 1.9 yrs.

have cycled since 2009..test-tbol,eq-tbol,anavar/tbol,test solo.
got gyno after my first cycle when I abruptly stopped novedex-xt..

have got gynos repeating after that but not related to aas..it happens when I put on bf..my prl is high usually but not as high as to warrant an mri for tumours

adex,letro,exemestane has helped me get rid of it in the past..exemestane raloxifene being the best..

so after 21mths off aas how do I get 2 gynos..no supplements besides protein shake and vitamins..

test,lh,fsh,free test,thyroid,shbg,dhea all in mid range..except cholesterol which is out of whack..

can u find any reason linking the high bf.prl and cholesterol to cause this

High prolactin can cause gyno and the AI's you listed above wont do anything for it. Your prolactin levels are over 3x the max for men.

You seem to have a bunch of underlying nutritional deficiencies that are causing your whole system to go out of whack.

So, what are common causes of high prolactin in men?

Liver disease (cirrhosis), kidney disease, and hypothyroidism are the most common.

You sya you have high BF, why is that? It can be a result of an underfunctioning thyroid which in turn controls much of the rest of the body and could be affecting your pituitaty. Cholesterol rises for a few reasons, high carb diets, when the body is subjected to toxic stress (which can also cause fat gain by the way), when hormone levels are low and in response to nutritional deficiencies leading to cardiovascular disease where cholesterol is required to prevent arterial rupture.

Thyrdoid in the normal range doesnt mean much. You clearly have low vit D levels which may not be bad because your probably lacking the vit A and K to go with it.

My personal opinion is you should seem out an orthomolecular doc and start an in depth supplementation program to get your body working properly again.

 

[bowly]

hey zyg thanks for such a detailed response..indian docs would not have gone anywhere near to this response..

High prolactin can cause gyno and the AI's you listed above wont do anything for it. Your prolactin levels are over 3x the max for men.but don't prl gyno cause discharge,itching etc


You seem to have a bunch of underlying nutritional deficiencies that are causing your whole system to go out of whack.yes its possible
So, what are common causes of high prolactin in men?

Liver disease (cirrhosis)my sgpt was high, kidney disease, and hypothyroidism are the most common.

You sya you have high BF, why is that? It can be a result of an underfunctioning thyroid which in turn controls much of the rest of the body and could be affecting your pituitaty. Cholesterol rises for a few reasons, high carb diets, when the body is subjected to toxic stress (which can also cause fat gain by the way), when hormone levels are low and in response to nutritional deficiencies leading to cardiovascular disease where cholesterol is required to prevent arterial rupture.

Thyrdoid in the normal range doesnt mean much can u elaborate pls. You clearly have low vit D levels which may not be bad because your probably lacking the vit A and K to go with it.low vit d not bad? can u pls explain the vit a and k synthesis
My personal opinion is you should seem out an orthomolecular doc and start an in depth supplementation program to get your body working properly again.will find an orthomolecular doc,doubt we have one in Mumbai..can u suggest me a blood test to try n find out some answeres [/QUOTE]

 

[Zyglamail]

hey zyg thanks for such a detailed response..indian docs would not have gone anywhere near to this response..

High prolactin can cause gyno and the AI's you listed above wont do anything for it. Your prolactin levels are over 3x the max for men.but don't prl gyno cause discharge,itching etc


You seem to have a bunch of underlying nutritional deficiencies that are causing your whole system to go out of whack.yes its possible
So, what are common causes of high prolactin in men?

Liver disease (cirrhosis)my sgpt was high, kidney disease, and hypothyroidism are the most common.

You sya you have high BF, why is that? It can be a result of an underfunctioning thyroid which in turn controls much of the rest of the body and could be affecting your pituitaty. Cholesterol rises for a few reasons, high carb diets, when the body is subjected to toxic stress (which can also cause fat gain by the way), when hormone levels are low and in response to nutritional deficiencies leading to cardiovascular disease where cholesterol is required to prevent arterial rupture.

Thyrdoid in the normal range doesnt mean much can u elaborate pls. You clearly have low vit D levels which may not be bad because your probably lacking the vit A and K to go with it.low vit d not bad? can u pls explain the vit a and k synthesis
My personal opinion is you should seem out an orthomolecular doc and start an in depth supplementation program to get your body working properly again.will find an orthomolecular doc,doubt we have one in Mumbai..can u suggest me a blood test to try n find out some answeres

[/QUOTE]

prl gyno doesnt necessarily involve discharge or itching.

Halides like fluoride, bromide etc are all around us an inundate us with toxins. These halides displace iodine which is an essential nutrient for the production of thyroid hormones. An underfunctioning thyroid is one that is not function to 100% optimal capacity but yet is not functioning so poorly that lab range of T3 for example drops below range. a couple tenths of a pointin T3 hormone levels can have a drastic effect on mood, fat levels, muscle mass and overall how the rest of the body functions. Your T3 levels can be right in the middle of lab range but not be optimal. Think of it terms of natural test level, would you rather have 400 test of 600 test? Both are in lab range but I can gaurantee you will feel so much better at 600. The same holds true for thyroid function.

The D3 blood test is questionable in terms of real meaning and merit but the reason I said your low levels arent horrible is because if they were higher then you likely would have even more problems. Do I think you should raise D levels? Absolutely! BUT when you increase D intake you also increase the bodies need for magnesium. D can also have toxicity issue when not accompanied by proper amounts of vit A and vit K.

Based on your symptoms I think its pretty clear you could do a lot with proper supplementation. Something a typical doctor isnt going to be of much help with. Blood work is also going to be of somewhat limited value but in short if you want to do lab work get your mineral levels checked via RBC blood work and NOT serum blood work. Check for all the essential minerals you can.

Its a very complex and deep topic which is going to take time to address but if your dont have a doc in your area you will need to become your own nutritionist and scour the web reading everything you can.

 

[bowly]

thank zyg..that real valuable insight..god bless man

currently taking zma,multi vitamin esteemo and keraglow for hair which is thinning due to high prl,low d3..and finasteride 1mg

tamoxifen to prevent further binding(finasteride may add too)but now have shifted to ralox since gyno started to subside..

simvastatin for cholesterol..

will get another test in few days..should I supplement with t3 as I feel fatigue n lethargy during noon..also do u suggest vit a and k to help d3 levels..

someone also suggested calcium for thinning hair..any good?




prl gyno doesnt necessarily involve discharge or itching.

Halides like fluoride, bromide etc are all around us an inundate us with toxins. These halides displace iodine which is an essential nutrient for the production of thyroid hormones. An underfunctioning thyroid is one that is not function to 100% optimal capacity but yet is not functioning so poorly that lab range of T3 for example drops below range. a couple tenths of a pointin T3 hormone levels can have a drastic effect on mood, fat levels, muscle mass and overall how the rest of the body functions. Your T3 levels can be right in the middle of lab range but not be optimal. Think of it terms of natural test level, would you rather have 400 test of 600 test? Both are in lab range but I can gaurantee you will feel so much better at 600. The same holds true for thyroid function.

The D3 blood test is questionable in terms of real meaning and merit but the reason I said your low levels arent horrible is because if they were higher then you likely would have even more problems. Do I think you should raise D levels? Absolutely! BUT when you increase D intake you also increase the bodies need for magnesium. D can also have toxicity issue when not accompanied by proper amounts of vit A and vit K.

Based on your symptoms I think its pretty clear you could do a lot with proper supplementation. Something a typical doctor isnt going to be of much help with. Blood work is also going to be of somewhat limited value but in short if you want to do lab work get your mineral levels checked via RBC blood work and NOT serum blood work. Check for all the essential minerals you can.

Its a very complex and deep topic which is going to take time to address but if your dont have a doc in your area you will need to become your own nutritionist and scour the web reading everything you can.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zyglamail]

thank zyg..that real valuable insight..god bless man

currently taking zma,multi vitamin esteemo and keraglow for hair which is thinning due to high prl,low d3..and finasteride 1mg

tamoxifen to prevent further binding(finasteride may add too)but now have shifted to ralox since gyno started to subside..

simvastatin for cholesterol..

will get another test in few days..should I supplement with t3 as I feel fatigue n lethargy during noon..also do u suggest vit a and k to help d3 levels..

someone also suggested calcium for thinning hair..any good?

finasteride is the devil! These are the kind of details that are important. The stuff totally throws off the HPTA and can have long term nasty sides that last for years after you stop taking it.

You really dont want to be taking calcium if your are not 100% sure you dont need it. Without Vit A, D and K its just going to deposit in soft tissue anyway, which isnt where you want it. Loss of hair can also be a sign of hypogonadism and taking T3 is not going to fix that . You want to get your thyroid working optimally not shut it down by taking T3. Taking thyroid hormones should be a last result only after you have made sure your body has reached sufficiency with iodine and selenium.

Vit a and K wont help D levels, you need to take D for that but dont take just vit D, you need A and K and magnesium along with it. Your should ideally have about a 5:1 A to D raito which can be had by many cod liver oil supplements. Your go9ng to want to try and get at least a couple hundred mcg MK4 and bump up magnesium intake another 400mg above your ZMA (assuming its around 400mg on its own).

Im not following you when you say "tamoxifen to prevent further binding" you clearly dont have estrogen issues no idea why you want to take nolva.

People really need to start looking at basic nutrition to fix problems first and then turn to drugs. A lot of people lose hair because they have nutritional issue. Then they jump on a bunch of drugs and just make things worse.

 

[bowly]

finasteride is the devil! These are the kind of details that are important. The stuff totally throws off the HPTA and can have long term nasty sides that last for years after you stop taking it.just started taking it 3 days back,as hair was receeding fast at the front
You really dont want to be taking calcium if your are not 100% sure you dont need it. Without Vit A, D and K its just going to deposit in soft tissue anyway..by its do u mean calcium or vit d3, which isnt where you want it.

Loss of hair can also be a sign of hypogonadism wont lh and fsh say if I have hypogonadism and taking T3 is not going to fix that . You want to get your thyroid working optimally not shut it down by taking T3. Taking thyroid hormones should be a last result only after you have made sure your body has reached sufficiency with iodine and selenium.

Vit a and K wont help D levels, you need to take D for that but dont take just vit D, you need A and K and magnesium along with it. Your should ideally have about a 5:1 A to D raito which can be had by many cod liver oil supplements.currently taking vit d3 5000iu after breakfast..wont 5 times vit a be too much,
Your go9ng to want to try and get at least a couple hundred mcg MK4 zyg whats mk4 and bump up magnesium intake another 400mg above your ZMA (assuming its around 400mg on its own).I take zma before seeping so do I take additional magnesium with it or with d3 in the morn as u mentioned earlier
Im not following you when you say "tamoxifen to prevent further binding" you clearly dont have estrogen issues no idea why you want to take nolva.there was gyno and it was increasing and now its come down..thats why was taking nolva to prevent further binding of any kind to the chest tissues

People really need to start looking at basic nutrition to fix problems first and then turn to drugs. A lot of people lose hair because they have nutritional issue. Then they jump on a bunch of drugs and just make things worse.i agree but diagnoses here is very poor..just imagine I was lucky to find u after three yrs of posting my issues on this website..put a search on my threads and u will realise no one has such profound knowledge of things as urself..endocrinologist in Mumbai said let it be it will self dissolve..come after 3 months
I will lose the fina and the statin after a month..keeping the ralox on incase fina decides to flare up that gyno..

how many iu of vit a and mg of vit k do u suggest with the d3and is 5000iu ok or bump upto 10000 ..will also add 400mg magnesium to the 2 pill of gnc zma..it says magn-60mg and zinc 30mg

 

[Zyglamail]

Sorry I mean hypothyroidism not hypogonadism.

5000iu vit D is a lot especially if your not taking any A or K.

MK4 is a form of vit K

I would not take calcium, especially if your not getting ample A and K with the D your taking. Have you been taking the D long? I would guess no, because if you were your 25 hydroxyl levels wouldnt be so low.

I would add the additional 400mg mangesium in the morning with breakfast of even with lunch. Too much at one time can give you diarrhea.

I wouldnt go any higher than 5000IU of D, even though your levels are low and certainly not without getting more A and some K in there. There is a synnergy and requirement for vit A, D, K and magnesium and calcium. Assuming you eat some dairy and there is some calcium in your multi vitamin you likely dont need any more calcium.

here is a quick rundown of where I would start.....
vit D 5000IU
vit A 25000IU
(you could just use a single cod liver oil supplement in get both in 1 and approx 5:1 ratio).

Vit K is a bit tricky since there are different versions. Life extension makes a good product with k1,k2, mk4 and mk7, take 1 or 2 of those a day.

Keep taking your ZMA and add in another 400mg or so of magnesium earlier in the day.

Continue with your multi vitamin.

Add DIM and calcium D glucarate for natural estrogen control.

400mcg selenium (essential for T4 to T3 conversion and cleaning up hydrogen peroxid in thyroid)
id add iodine to your supplement plan. It will force out toxic halides which can make some feel kinda crappy so you can use a liquid and go slow or just go all out from the start, personal choice. You can get iodarol tablets in 25mg or 50mg size. Alternativly "lugol" solution which is potassium iodide and iodine in liquid. Some in different percent strengths. Id try and get 5% which is 6.25mg combined iodine/iodine per drop. This will allow you to start slow and ramp up if you want, also cheaper than iodarol and work up to 50mg per day.

I would also recommend a good b complex to add to your multivitamin or at minimum something like optimox ATP cofactors which is a fairly high potency B-2/B-3 product.

I would also recommend ascorbic acid, a couple grams a few times a day along with lysine 4-5grams per day (break up into multiple doses over course of day) and 1-2 grams of proline per day. This combined with the B should help with your cholesterol.

 

[thx9000]

Prolactin based gyno can be kinda hard to arrest. Actually gyno is pretty hard to halt once you get to the point distinct nodules for over a year. There's probably some level of fibrosis at this point and there's not much you can do to reverse that. Plus there's that whole prolactin based gyno' can be tough to halt once it gets started, and that's with normal PRL levels.

I apologize if this was already asked and answered; though I didn't catch it as I was reading through...has a prolactinoma been definitively excluded?

 

[Zyglamail]

Prolactin based gyno can be kinda hard to arrest. Actually gyno is pretty hard to halt once you get to the point distinct nodules for over a year. There's probably some level of fibrosis at this point and there's not much you can do to reverse that. Plus there's that whole prolactin based gyno' can be tough to halt once it gets started, and that's with normal PRL levels.

I apologize if this was already asked and answered; though I didn't catch it as I was reading through...has a prolactinoma been definitively excluded?

Breast fibrosis is common in women all over the world and the leading cause is lack of iodine.

As far as prolactinoma goes his levels are high but generally not high enough to warrant looking for a tumor.

Good health requires solid nutrition. Any problem that has not evolved into a a specific disease(hell and even then) the first action should be making sure the body has all the nutrients it needs to properly function. Then once that is done you will more often than not find the symptoms have greatly been reduced or eliminated all together. Only then can you accurately diagnose and track down problems.

 

[bowly]

zyg trust me diagnosing an issue is the biggest probem in these third world countries..where degrees are sold to so called docs and value of life is not imp as these are hugely populated areas..

had forgotten the value of looking into nutrition before jumping to drugs..thank u zyg for giving such insight..

don't get mk4 and mk7 in india..which brand is good in the uk?

Breast fibrosis is common in women all over the world and the leading cause is lack of iodine.

As far as prolactinoma goes his levels are high but generally not high enough to warrant looking for a tumor.

Good health requires solid nutrition. Any problem that has not evolved into a a specific disease(hell and even then) the first action should be making sure the body has all the nutrients it needs to properly function. Then once that is done you will more often than not find the symptoms have greatly been reduced or eliminated all together. Only then can you accurately diagnose and track down problems.

 

[Zyglamail]

Super K with Advanced K2 Complex, 90 softgels

 

[jester72]

Lots of GREAT info in this thread Zyg. I don't think I've ever seen someone as knowledgeable as you when it comes to vitamins and supplements. It's too bad we can't sticky your posts; it's invaluable information for the community.

 

[bowly]

thank you zyg..and I agree with u jester,i am impressed by yzgs know how and the willingness to extensively help someone..thanks zyg..

going on ur supplement regime from tomo..

need to know if I need to control estro with calcium d glucorate n dim as estro is already low..

have anavite multi vitamin can I add it to the mix.

ascorbic,lysine and proline--is there a supplement having all these combined zyg..

Super K with Advanced K2 Complex, 90 softgels

 

[Zyglamail]

thank you zyg..and I agree with u jester,i am impressed by yzgs know how and the willingness to extensively help someone..thanks zyg..

going on ur supplement regime from tomo..

need to know if I need to control estro with calcium d glucorate n dim as estro is already low..

have anavite multi vitamin can I add it to the mix.

ascorbic,lysine and proline--is there a supplement having all these combined zyg..

The idea here is to get off all your prescription meds, finasteride, nolva etc. If you find you need estrogen control after stopping nolva then use the dim/calcium D glucarate.

Yes, use your multi vitamin as a base.

There are a couple combined ascorbate/lysine/proline products:

Heart Technology Retail (Heart Tech)

Since you have high cholesterol you would probably want to take double the daily dose of the above if you opted to use that product. It would end up being quite a bit more expensive than buying the stuff individually.

 

[bowly]

zyg just been two weeks with statin and tamox..and three days since fina and moved to ralox..

have to stop that hairfall and reduce the lump till the vitamins start producing the results..is it ok to continue till then

zyg correct me--dim and glucorate will lower e2 and not bring it to optimum range--correct?if so should I take it only when my e2 increases..

also should I take chaste berry to bring down the prolactin as caber or bromo seem too harsh on the system..

The idea here is to get off all your prescription meds, finasteride, nolva etc. If you find you need estrogen control after stopping nolva then use the dim/calcium D glucarate.

Yes, use your multi vitamin as a base.

There are a couple combined ascorbate/lysine/proline products:

Heart Technology Retail (Heart Tech)

Since you have high cholesterol you would probably want to take double the daily dose of the above if you opted to use that product. It would end up being quite a bit more expensive than buying the stuff individually.

 

[Zyglamail]

Nutrients dont work like drugs. If you have been deficient for years you cant expect to see results from adding in nutrients you have been deficient in for years to show results in mere weeks, possibly not even months and perhaps even years depending on how old you are and how aggressivly you supplement.

Many processes in the body break down and suffer long before there are any external symptoms there is a problem. By the time you start displaying symptoms, even minor ones, your body has been making due without and damage has been occuring. When you start to intriduce whats been missing your body has a lot of catch up to do.

Dim and calcium D glucarate are not going to tank your E levels like a pharmaceutical drug will. We are actually inundated with estrogens from out environment every day and those estrogens can also make multiple passes through your system before ultimately being metabolized. Im still a little confused why your taking nolva if you have low E? Its going to muck up your hpta and cause sides. Hair be damned, you couldnt pay me tto touch finasteride, just use google for the horror stories.

You could try chaste berry, I dont have any experience with it myself. I try and stick to essential nutrients.

 

[bowly]

hey zyg reply in bold

Dim and calcium D glucarate are not going to tank your E levels like a pharmaceutical drug will. We are actually inundated with estrogens from out environment every day and those estrogens can also make multiple passes through your system before ultimately being metabolized.so regular use of dim n cag is like maintaining a healthy level of e2..correct? Im still a little confused why your taking nolva if you have low E?inorder to reduce the lump I have used adex,letro and exemestane in conjunction with a serm..have read about tamox and ralox being effective enough to dissolve the lump hence on tamox and now ralox..also to prevent whatever has caused the lump to form from binding further Its going to muck up your hpta and cause sides.i completely agree but if I drop it have the fear of it getting enlarged like last few times and then will compulsory have to go on letro that fucks the system ten folds Hair be damned, you couldnt pay me tto touch finasteride, just use google for the horror stories.just taking fina for a month..have tried it earlier for a month or two and seen hair return to normal..i know its the nutrition that's caused the hairfall but got to atleast stop this hairfall..saw palmetto will take months before it stops hairfall..a month or two atleast gives me a chance to get nutrition get back some control

You could try chaste berry, I dont have any experience with it myself. I try and stick to essential nutrients.[/QUOTE]

 

[bowly]

zyg found this..

High serum B12 can be caused by a functional B12 deficiency. In that condition, there is enough B12 in the body, but the cells are not able to use it properly, so they export it back to the blood, and it builds up there, bound to haptocorrin. After about a week, the haptocorrin-bound B12 is imported by the liver and recycled via the bile to the gut. This is the salvage and recycle pathway for B12. The cells of the body in general are not able to use this B12. Only the liver can import it. The other transporter of B12 in the blood is transcobalamin, and this is the one that carries B12 from the gut to the cells in general.

High serum B12 per se is not harmful, but it indicates that there is an issue with B12 utilization.

According to the GD-MCB hypothesis, a functional B12 deficiency is part of the pathophysiology of ME/CFS, and it is caused by glutathione depletion

 

[bowly]

does this make sense that b12 is high and sgpt is showing high due to the liver activity..

zyg found this..

High serum B12 can be caused by a functional B12 deficiency. In that condition, there is enough B12 in the body, but the cells are not able to use it properly, so they export it back to the blood, and it builds up there, bound to haptocorrin. After about a week, the haptocorrin-bound B12 is imported by the liver and recycled via the bile to the gut. This is the salvage and recycle pathway for B12. The cells of the body in general are not able to use this B12. Only the liver can import it. The other transporter of B12 in the blood is transcobalamin, and this is the one that carries B12 from the gut to the cells in general.

High serum B12 per se is not harmful, but it indicates that there is an issue with B12 utilization.

According to the GD-MCB hypothesis, a functional B12 deficiency is part of the pathophysiology of ME/CFS, and it is caused by glutathione depletion

 

[Zyglamail]

You have been bouncing on and off all sorts of meds that directly affect various hormone levels so your above labs really dont mean anything.

The reason I recommended DIM and CDG was to naturally control estrogen which in one post you claimed wasnt an issue because your estrogen is low but at the same time stated AI's and nolva help with the lump. If they helped with the lump then its likely estrogen related or possibly just due to the rollercoaster hormone ride you have put yourself on.

At the end of the day its your body and you do what you feel is best. From experience however I can tell you that often times thing get worse before they get better. Years or decades of nutritional neglect can not be overcome by a drug and can not be reversed overnight by simply adding in what was missing.

 

[bowly]

damn damn damn

I did not know that there is an auto finish feature for words..i typed fina-- for finasteride and it finished with finaplex..damn

u must think I am crazy

You have been bouncing on and off all sorts of meds that directly affect various hormone levels so your above labs really dont mean anything.zyg I was not even on multi vitamins before this blood test..i repeat no medicine/pill whatsoeverlast yr developed gyno in may and was only on diet n workouts by team of trainers from uk physical elite..from 3500 calorie diet n gvt workout for 2wks they put me on hiit and a high fat diet and boom there was the lump..had to go on ralox and exemestane to dissolve it..what else do I do man..tamox is too toxic and letro practically kills u

no one understood what caused it..except that bf was high and a high fat diet could have triggered a testosterone response causing the gyno..

The reason I recommended DIM and CDG was to naturally control estrogen which in one post you claimed wasnt an issue because your estrogen is low but at the same time stated AI's and nolva help with the lump. If they helped with the lump then its likely estrogen related or possibly just due to the rollercoaster hormone ride you have put yourself on. .I understand ai,s reduce estrogen but they also dissolve accumulated lump and that's the reason I chose both ai and serm..this time my estro is low hence only on a serm

At the end of the day its your body and you do what you feel is best. From experience however I can tell you that often times thing get worse before they get better. Years or decades of nutritional neglect can not be overcome by a drug and can not be reversed overnight by simply adding in what was missing.absolutely correct zyg,am trying to follow ur suggestion..also speaking to an ortho molecular doc from Chicago..w\

but before more harm is done I am trying to block the negative effect of these things..finasteride,simvastatin and raloxifen are dangerous drugs and I don't intend continuing them beyond a month..will dim and cdg reduce a lump..if they will I will drop off the raloxifen..cholesterol can cause a lot of damage hence gone on statin..will add the ascorbic,lysine and proline but will have to wait till I get them online or from uk..

did u read on the b12 article..my b12 was high for last three tests and I was only on whey protein and casein at night..no supplementation whatsoever..what do u make of this

 

[Zyglamail]

You are totally missing yet at the same time highlighting the point I am trying to make.

Just because you have a lump doensnt mean it wont go away on its own. If your not taking AAS and you dont have high estrogen levels then its not very likely its true irreversible gyno.

Next, you say you need a serm to reduce gyno and if you stop using it gyno will come back. So if the gyno will come back without ths serm, then what is the serm actually FIXING? Its not fixing anything if the gyno is going to return and in the mean time what other effects on your whole body is the serm having?

As far as statins and cholesterol goes, please explain to me how cholesterol causes damage? Cholesterol does NOT cause damage in and of itself, increased cholesteol levels are there because your body raised them out of a perceived need and in some cases due to a piss poor diet high in processed carbs. The damage that is seen when cholesterol levels are high is caused by the same thing that caused the high cholesterol levels. The "damage" and the elevated cholesterol are both side effects of an underlying problem. The increased cholesterol isnt the problem itself, its a response to the problem. Address the problem and the levels will go down.

If the body senses a need for increased cholesterol levels, then please explain to me why the goal of treatment shouldnt be to identify and address WHY the body thinks it needs more instead of just squashing cholesterol levels. The fact is your body raises cholesterol as a means to deal with toxins and patch up arterial walls that are damaged when the proper underlying nutrients are not available.

So if you have an excess amount of toxins and your body produces more cholesterol to bind up and metabolize those toxins and you take statins to get rid of cholesterol then what happens to the toxins? Not a damn thing, they are left to roam free and wreak havoc on the body.

If your are deficient in vit C and lysine and your body cant properly repair arterial damage cholesterol is raised and used as a fix for the damage. What happens to this arterial damage when you take away cholesterol? Your reduce the bodies ability to handle the arterial damage and are more susceptible to hemorrhage.

A statin does NOT FIX high cholesterol, if it fixed it then you wouldnt need to stay on statins forever to control it.

No drug works in a vacuum, it doesnt just affect one thing because what the drug is designed to ultimately directly affects other body processes. Cholesterol is essential for the production of many hormones in addition to what I stated above so you cant just drop cholesterol and not expect it to have an impact on the operation of many other things in your body and often times these "side effects" are worse than the initial problem to begin with.

Take some time and visit the world health organizations website and start looking at the data. If memory serves correctly you will see that austrailia has the highest mean cholesterol level of all the countries data is tracked for. At the same time, they also have the lowest death rate due to heart disease. If cholesterol causes so much damage then that should be the farthest from the truth.

 

[bowly]

[zyg I get ur point..

half my previous message was in ur quote window in my earlier reply,hope u read it..

well I knew cholestrol increases to solve a problem by depositing itself to the arterial walls preventing the inflammation which can lead to thickening of the arterial walls, leading to a blockage..

don't know between toxins and cholestrols remedial actions which one will harm more..atleast that's been the mode of treatment in india.no doctors,i repeat no doctor in india wants to address the root of why cholesterol increased in the first place.

well I was not working out,diet was not nourishing,was not on any supplements ,too much stress and now I am paying the price..

will get off the statin,serm and finasteride but don't know how long it will take to find a right doc who can find the source of the problems causing it ..hope till then whatever negative factors causing havoc inside don't kill me completely..

lemme know if u know of some doctor who can work with me to solve these problems.

thanks



QUOTE=Zyglamail;17386203]You are totally missing yet at the same time highlighting the point I am trying to make.

Just because you have a lump doensnt mean it wont go away on its own. If your not taking AAS and you dont have high estrogen levels then its not very likely its true irreversible gyno.

Next, you say you need a serm to reduce gyno and if you stop using it gyno will come back. So if the gyno will come back without ths serm, then what is the serm actually FIXING? Its not fixing anything if the gyno is going to return and in the mean time what other effects on your whole body is the serm having?

As far as statins and cholesterol goes, please explain to me how cholesterol causes damage? Cholesterol does NOT cause damage in and of itself, increased cholesteol levels are there because your body raised them out of a perceived need and in some cases due to a piss poor diet high in processed carbs. The damage that is seen when cholesterol levels are high is caused by the same thing that caused the high cholesterol levels. The "damage" and the elevated cholesterol are both side effects of an underlying problem. The increased cholesterol isnt the problem itself, its a response to the problem. Address the problem and the levels will go down.

If the body senses a need for increased cholesterol levels, then please explain to me why the goal of treatment shouldnt be to identify and address WHY the body thinks it needs more instead of just squashing cholesterol levels. The fact is your body raises cholesterol as a means to deal with toxins and patch up arterial walls that are damaged when the proper underlying nutrients are not available.

So if you have an excess amount of toxins and your body produces more cholesterol to bind up and metabolize those toxins and you take statins to get rid of cholesterol then what happens to the toxins? Not a damn thing, they are left to roam free and wreak havoc on the body.

If your are deficient in vit C and lysine and your body cant properly repair arterial damage cholesterol is raised and used as a fix for the damage. What happens to this arterial damage when you take away cholesterol? Your reduce the bodies ability to handle the arterial damage and are more susceptible to hemorrhage.

A statin does NOT FIX high cholesterol, if it fixed it then you wouldnt need to stay on statins forever to control it.

No drug works in a vacuum, it doesnt just affect one thing because what the drug is designed to ultimately directly affects other body processes. Cholesterol is essential for the production of many hormones in addition to what I stated above so you cant just drop cholesterol and not expect it to have an impact on the operation of many other things in your body and often times these "side effects" are worse than the initial problem to begin with.

Take some time and visit the world health organizations website and start looking at the data. If memory serves correctly you will see that austrailia has the highest mean cholesterol level of all the countries data is tracked for. At the same time, they also have the lowest death rate due to heart disease. If cholesterol causes so much damage then that should be the farthest from the truth.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zyglamail]

Your replies are becoming too intermixed with mine and difficult to read. Finding competent doctors to treat deficiencies is not unique to india, its a problem everywhere. Docs come out of school only learning what drug to prescribe.

If you are bound and determined to find a doctor look for homeopathic or orthomolecular but even then many of them lack any real knowledge.

Personally I opted to go it alone and do my own research and treat myself. You really wont know if a doc knows what s/he is doing if you dont educate yourself to some degree and at that point may as well go all in.

 

[bowly]

ok zyg..

any suggestions on what areas to look for when checking reasons behind high cholesterol,besides diet.

low d3 and high b12 is common with my father too but don't know if there is any co relation between d3 and b12..did u read on the b12 article I posted..is it correct

prolactin,,,have been told by the Chicago doc to go for an mri of pituitary gland,,he feels there is a stalk condition which prevents prl levels from rising too much but the tumour nonetheless exists..will check that..

Your replies are becoming too intermixed with mine and difficult to read. Finding competent doctors to treat deficiencies is not unique to india, its a problem everywhere. Docs come out of school only learning what drug to prescribe.

If you are bound and determined to find a doctor look for homeopathic or orthomolecular but even then many of them lack any real knowledge.

Personally I opted to go it alone and do my own research and treat myself. You really wont know if a doc knows what s/he is doing if you dont educate yourself to some degree and at that point may as well go all in.

 

[Zyglamail]

ok zyg..

any suggestions on what areas to look for when checking reasons behind high cholesterol,besides diet.

low d3 and high b12 is common with my father too but don't know if there is any co relation between d3 and b12..did u read on the b12 article I posted..is it correct

prolactin,,,have been told by the Chicago doc to go for an mri of pituitary gland,,he feels there is a stalk condition which prevents prl levels from rising too much but the tumour nonetheless exists..will check that..

Your high cholesterol and all of your problems are likely related and they all come back to nutrition or lack there of and possibly toxin exposure which could also be affecting your pituitary.

I do agree with your quote above about high serum B12 levels. Your bodies inability to use b12 is often related to other deficiencies and possibly toxicity, which as I have stated above is also a cause of high cholesterol.

I would consider trying to find someone who can test you for heavy metal toxicity.

Then start an all encompassing nutritional supplement regiment. I would put special importance on high doses of ascorbic acid and glutathione precursors to help with toxicity.

 

[dennis1]

High prolactin can cause gyno and the AI's you listed above wont do anything for it. Your prolactin levels are over 3x the max for men.

You seem to have a bunch of underlying nutritional deficiencies that are causing your whole system to go out of whack.

So, what are common causes of high prolactin in men?

Liver disease (cirrhosis), kidney disease, and hypothyroidism are the most common.

You sya you have high BF, why is that? It can be a result of an underfunctioning thyroid which in turn controls much of the rest of the body and could be affecting your pituitaty. Cholesterol rises for a few reasons, high carb diets, when the body is subjected to toxic stress (which can also cause fat gain by the way), when hormone levels are low and in response to nutritional deficiencies leading to cardiovascular disease where cholesterol is required to prevent arterial rupture.



Thyrdoid in the normal range doesnt mean much. You clearly have low vit D levels which may not be bad because your probably lacking the vit A and K to go with it.

My personal opinion is you should seem out an orthomolecular doc and start an in depth supplementation program to get your body working properly again.

GREAT POST. What is your background ? I learned a lot. I wish my Dr. had your knowledge

 

[bowly]

hey zyg greetings,

I am following ur suggestions and getting good results..

one concern..i was having limp hair/hairfall and beginning of gyno when my prolactin/cholestrol was high and d3 was low as I mentioned at the beginning of this post..after following a proper supplement regim supported by finasteride and raloxifen I managed to get everything alright..

then I discontinued raloxifen once the pain and dot lump was gone..and after few days once healthy hair was back I discontinued finasteride..the blood report came excellent with prl in range..

now after three weeks I am getting the dot pain back again and hair starting to get limp and thinning..

what could be the cause since I an regularly working out and following the supplement regime minus finasteride and raloxifen..I am assuming that the prl is increasing again and will have a blood test soon..am also starting to believe that finasteride helped me get my hair back aided with ralox which could have inhibited prl in some way..

zyg do u agree with what I think..i don't want to go on ralox and finasteride once again..is there any possible remedy to this recurring thing..help appreciated..thanks

 

[Zyglamail]

Iodine is an important element in proper skin/scalp health. Ive heard from quite a few people who have halted and reversed hair loss by supplemention with iodine. Selenium should also be used to make sure there are n shortages there.

The finasteride very well may have helped you get some hair back but at what cost. That stuff can totally jack up your HPA. Its happened to many folks and stayed messed up for years following cessation and for others the damage was permanent.

 

[bowly]

zyg thanks for the prompt reply

I have a supplement that gives 150mcg iodine from 30mg kelp powder per capsule..taking 2 of this and 400selenium..is this good enough...

yes I agree with finasteride...my friend suffered with limp penus for months after discontinuing finasteride..that's why I have switched to saw palmetto but it takes long before effects can be seen..

zyg what do u suggest for this damn pain in the nip issue..its miniscule and at level 1 max being 10..but I know it will slowly reach where it was when I started this thread if I don't start treatment..

 

[bowly]

zyg have also put on some belly fat in last couple weeks..

diet was proper and supplementation was regular..

can dim by any chance cause fat gain...and subsequent nip pain

also can chaste berry and ginko biloba help if prl turns out to be high

Iodine is an important element in proper skin/scalp health. Ive heard from quite a few people who have halted and reversed hair loss by supplemention with iodine. Selenium should also be used to make sure there are n shortages there.

The finasteride very well may have helped you get some hair back but at what cost. That stuff can totally jack up your HPA. Its happened to many folks and stayed messed up for years following cessation and for others the damage was permanent.

 

[Zyglamail]

zyg thanks for the prompt reply

I have a supplement that gives 150mcg iodine from 30mg kelp powder per capsule..taking 2 of this and 400selenium..is this good enough...

yes I agree with finasteride...my friend suffered with limp penus for months after discontinuing finasteride..that's why I have switched to saw palmetto but it takes long before effects can be seen..

zyg what do u suggest for this damn pain in the nip issue..its miniscule and at level 1 max being 10..but I know it will slowly reach where it was when I started this thread if I don't start treatment..

The only iodine supplement I would use is called "lugols solution" which is a inorganic iodine/iodide combination in liquid form OR Iodarol which is a tablet form of lugols solution.

Iodine supplementation based on kelp is not effective, its organic in nature and most things frm the see are full of heavy metals etc.

Also 150mc is hardly anything. Ive been on 50mg a day for the last 6 months with great results. Dr Brownstien, a huge iodine proponent, says 95% of his many thousands of patients over the years are iodine deficient. And that at a dose of 50mg daily it takes an average of 6-12 months for the body to become sufficient.

So if 50MG is 333 times as much as 150mcg then you could reasonably expect to become sufficient in say 333 times longer. So in other words you will likely neve become sufficient on doses that low.

As far as selenium goes, its essential for the control of free radicals etc produced naturally during the production of thyroid hormones and for proper conversion of T4 to t3. Ideally you want to use L-Selenomethionine and for a decent sized guy probably 400mcg a day.

 

[bowly]

the selenium is derived from selenium yeast..is it ok

also zyg what do u suggest for the nip pain issue..can dim be responsible for this as I have gained belly fat in past two weeks..

The only iodine supplement I would use is called "lugols solution" which is a inorganic iodine/iodide combination in liquid form OR Iodarol which is a tablet form of lugols solution.

Iodine supplementation based on kelp is not effective, its organic in nature and most things frm the see are full of heavy metals etc.

Also 150mc is hardly anything. Ive been on 50mg a day for the last 6 months with great results. Dr Brownstien, a huge iodine proponent, says 95% of his many thousands of patients over the years are iodine deficient. And that at a dose of 50mg daily it takes an average of 6-12 months for the body to become sufficient.

So if 50MG is 333 times as much as 150mcg then you could reasonably expect to become sufficient in say 333 times longer. So in other words you will likely neve become sufficient on doses that low.

As far as selenium goes, its essential for the control of free radicals etc produced naturally during the production of thyroid hormones and for proper conversion of T4 to t3. Ideally you want to use L-Selenomethionine and for a decent sized guy probably 400mcg a day.

 

[Zyglamail]

the selenium is derived from selenium yeast..is it ok

also zyg what do u suggest for the nip pain issue..can dim be responsible for this as I have gained belly fat in past two weeks..

Selenium derived from yeast may cause undesirable side effects due to its yeast source. Its also often doctored up with inorganic selenium. Ive heard quite a few people who have had no or poor response to yeast derived selenium. L-selenomethionine is the clear winner when it comes to forms of selenium to take.

DIM should not be causing gyno, it helps reduce estrogen.

Pharmaceutical drugs mess up the whole system and make troubleshooting deficiencies difficult at best. Drugs like finasteride that can have long term and even permanent effects make it even tougher.

There just isnt enough info to determine where you gyno is comming from. Finasteride HAS caused gyno in and of itself. It totally jacks up the proper conversion of many hormones and just changes in hormones alone can cause gyno.

You seem much more concerned with your hair than your hormone levels. Personally you couldnt pay me enough to take finasteride, hair or no hair.

About the best I can do it guide you on shoring up likely nutritional shortfalls which may or may not help with your prog/gyno issues due to your reliance on major hormone altering drugs.

 

[bowly]

hey zyg,,found an article on selenium yeast which says its preferable for human supplementation

Commercial selenium yeast supplements contain from about 1,000 to 2,000 micrograms of selenium per gram of supplement. This selenium is in the form of selenomethionine, a specific selenium-containing amino acid. All amino acids occur in two different three-dimensional forms: an "L" form and a "D" form, which are essentially mirror images of each other. The human body can only metabolize the L-amino acid form. Synthetic selenomethionine supplements are also available, but they are slightly less effective than yeast-selenium. While synthetic versions contain more than 90 percent selenomethionine in the L-form, they also contain some selenomethionine in the D-form. Synthetic selenomethionine, containing mixtures of L- and D-forms, are suitable for use in animal feeds, but selenium yeast is preferable for human supplementation

Selenium derived from yeast may cause undesirable side effects due to its yeast source. Its also often doctored up with inorganic selenium. Ive heard quite a few people who have had no or poor response to yeast derived selenium. L-selenomethionine is the clear winner when it comes to forms of selenium to take.

DIM should not be causing gyno, it helps reduce estrogen.

Pharmaceutical drugs mess up the whole system and make troubleshooting deficiencies difficult at best. Drugs like finasteride that can have long term and even permanent effects make it even tougher.

There just isnt enough info to determine where you gyno is comming from. Finasteride HAS caused gyno in and of itself. It totally jacks up the proper conversion of many hormones and just changes in hormones alone can cause gyno.

You seem much more concerned with your hair than your hormone levels. Personally you couldnt pay me enough to take finasteride, hair or no hair...not really zyg..that's the reason I gave up after 1 month of finasteride..used it to stop further hairfall till my other nutritional supps built up

About the best I can do it guide you on shoring up likely nutritional shortfalls which may or may not help with your prog/gyno issues due to your reliance on major hormone altering drugs.

zyg I don't think my gyno is due to finasteride as the symptoms were there before I even started using it..i think its prolactin or maybe fat deposits..estro has never been high in blood tests..cant blame the gonads (impotence)too,as the lh fsh total and free tests are always in range..can it be anything else zyg?

 

[BobMarshal]

The sgpt being high concerns me. That is a marker for liver inflammation. This could be from many causes. So have your doc check you things like hep C, one of the most common reasons for sgpt to be elevated. And of course check for other liver problems. Don't freak out just get it checked out. I was at a seminar about hep C and they said hep C is something you die with not from.

 

[Zyglamail]

The sgpt being high concerns me. That is a marker for liver inflammation. This could be from many causes. So have your doc check you things like hep C, one of the most common reasons for sgpt to be elevated. And of course check for other liver problems. Don't freak out just get it checked out. I was at a seminar about hep C and they said hep C is something you die with not from.

He has bouncing on/off all sorts of pharmeceuticals so its hard to say if thats causing it or not.

He has high B12 levels too which indicate a problem somewhere in the methylation cycle as well and improper conversion of the B12.

 

[bowly]

hey zyg thanks for the invaluable help you have given me..better than hundreds of docs in india..but pls don't make it sound like I am a pharmaceutical junkie..

the blood test is when I was on no sup whatsoever..not even a multi vitamin..

sgpt can be elevated due to whole lot of diff causes..alcohol,stress,muscle wear n tear etc etc etc..

He has bouncing on/off all sorts of pharmeceuticals so its hard to say if thats causing it or not.

He has high B12 levels too which indicate a problem somewhere in the methylation cycle as well and improper conversion of the B12.

 

[bowly]

hey bob thanks for taking time out to chip in

hep c will show really abnormal liver levels but will take ur hint and check out for hep c..

thank you

The sgpt being high concerns me. That is a marker for liver inflammation. This could be from many causes. So have your doc check you things like hep C, one of the most common reasons for sgpt to be elevated. And of course check for other liver problems. Don't freak out just get it checked out. I was at a seminar about hep C and they said hep C is something you die with not from.

 

[bowly]

hey zyg thank you for all the help u have extended to me about supplements..

have few supplements/vitamins but I feel I am taking things with wrong combination or at wrong times..can u pls help me put them in order and see if what I am doing is correct,,

empty stomach--
glutamine 10mg(mp)+memory sup(all wellness)
post breakfast
b-125-source naturals-
vit d-(holland n barret)1000 iu
vit a-(Holland n barret)5000iu
magnesium gnc-500mg
calcium glucarate-124mg
vit k-45ug or life ext super k
krill oil-best absorbing omega 3
post snack
multivitamin for hair--esteemo and keraglow
anavite-gaspari nutrition-high potency multi vitamin
pre lunch-
cultivate by san-probiotics
biotin gnc-500mcg
pre workout-
tmg(the vitamin shoppe)-600mg with pepsin 60mg
recover x by crossgen-amino and glutamine formula for post wo recovery
l carnitine gnc 500mg
post wo
lysine lproline complex-(vitacost)-500/300 mg quercitin 200mg
vit c 1000mg
pre bed-
zma gnc-30mg zinc /300mg magnesium
saw palmetto-holland n barret-for hair
2 tabs-l glutathione 50mg—l cysteine hcl—200mg
don't know where to add these
selenium gnc 200mg
iodine from kelp-gnc--150mcg(iodoral not shipped to india)
potassium-100mg
dim-natures way-100mg