Biotest's 4-AD-EC, thoughts

[pa1ad]

Okay guys, I will admit that I let myself get out of hand. I apologize for any insults or nasty things I've said on this thread.

I realize that Biotest is not a favorite among people on most internet discussion boards. You can not deny, however, that some of their products (Mag-10, Grow) do work to an extent. yes, they tend to exaggerate their claims but so does Ergopharm and most other supp companies; case in point: the "1AD is 700% more potent testosterone" claim by PA.

Nice try but I never said that. What I have said was that 1-testosterone has been shown to be over 700% as anabolic as testosterone. This is substantiated in more than one study and i provide the references in my literature. You don't like the data then argue with the original researchers, not me.

I never make any statements about the efficacy of my products without backing them up with solid research. Fact is, I do NOT exaggerate claims, never have. I just make effective products and they sell cuz they work.

Must suck to hate me but not be able to conjure up any evidence to disparage me.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Nice try but I never said that. What I have said was that 1-testosterone has been shown to be over 700% as anabolic as testosterone. This is substantiated in more than one study and i provide the references in my literature. You don't like the data then argue with the original researchers, not me.

I never make any statements about the efficacy of my products without backing them up with solid research. Fact is, I do NOT exaggerate claims, never have. I just make effective products and they sell cuz they work.

Must suck to hate me but not be able to conjure up any evidence to disparage me.

So you are saying that you've never sold a product that does not work? What about the now defunct norandrostenedione, DIM, or androstenedione that you used to sell? That was only good for losing wallet mass and/or achieving gyno.

BTW, your product will be unneccesary as you've already admitted that 4AD (especially the 4-ac-ec from biotest) negates the sexual dysfunction side-effect of 1AD.

Nor will anything you can create be able to compete with clomid or anastrazole. Both are better anti-estrogens than anything you could possibly sell as a supplement and both are cheap/legal.

1AD is the only effective product you have, and you have even admitted that you make little money off of its sales. Once prohormones are illegalized (its only a matter of time, and probably will happen sooner than later now that companies are starting to really push the legal envelope) you are going to be unemployed.

 

[Fortes]

Whoa bro!

Latinis, who crapped in your cereal this morning? At least PA doesn't go around quoting Roger Oppenheir when he talks about his supplements.

Oh yeah, and the evidence for any EC ester working is shite - there is NO research to support it. Even prescription Andriol caps (Testosterone Undecanoate) promise a delivery rate of around 3-6%, which is quite laughable in my opinion. You'd have to spend 50 dollars a day on the stuff to get any results.

For them to state ontop of all the other bull that "one dose is sufficient for a 24 hour period" is such horse-dukey it makes me sick.

But let us know how it goes, and how it compared to 1-AD by itself . . . though my best logic compells me to reject 4-AD-EC as complete trash, I still find myself curious.

BTW, how did all your previous 1-AD cycles go?

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Re: Whoa bro!

Latinis, who crapped in your cereal this morning? At least PA doesn't go around quoting Roger Oppenheir when he talks about his supplements.

Oh yeah, and the evidence for any EC ester working is shite - there is NO research to support it. Even prescription Andriol caps (Testosterone Undecanoate) promise a delivery rate of around 3-6%, which is quite laughable in my opinion. You'd have to spend 50 dollars a day on the stuff to get any results.

For them to state ontop of all the other bull that "one dose is sufficient for a 24 hour period" is such horse-dukey it makes me sick.

But let us know how it goes, and how it compared to 1-AD by itself . . . though my best logic compells me to reject 4-AD-EC as complete trash, I still find myself curious.

BTW, how did all your previous 1-AD cycles go?

Who the fuck is roger oppenheir? Can you say "self-projection"?

Anyway, this is the fourth day of 4-AD-EC and thusfar it has worked to increase my libido and increase the feeling of being "on" an androgen better than any other 4AD product (androspray, androsol, cyclodiol, regular 4ad powder) I've ever tried. I haven't been sleeping well since I started, which makes me think that it is either coincidental or that the 4AD-EC is active for more than just a few hours.

I've done three 1AD cycles before and have usually gained about a pound of muscle per week when using it alone. I've decided against using it with the 4ad-ec since I have the feeling that I am going to get decent gains with this stuff alone. I will use the 2.5 bottles of 1AD I have left when I do my injectable 4AD that I am going to make with the 98%HPLC tested powder and a U100 kit. I'll get my 1AD from kilosports here on out or I just will start trying out other stuff like 3-alpha and 1,4ADD since I refuse to buy from PussyAss's company any longer.

 

[pa1ad]

So you are saying that you've never sold a product that does not work? What about the now defunct norandrostenedione, DIM, or androstenedione that you used to sell? That was only good for losing wallet mass and/or achieving gyno.

I never sold norandrostenedione or DIM. And my promotion of androstenedione was very conservative and cautious when it came out. BTW smarty pants, If it had not come out first then there would have never been any 1-AD. Its really easy for a loser with nothing to show for his life to sit back and take pot shots at someone who works his ass off to make a difference, isn't it? Sure androstenedione sucked, but it had to be introduced first before we could find that out. After adione I kept improving and now there is 1-AD. Now if I had been the kind of person you are, then i would never have left my mommy and daddys house and we would still be talking about HMB and DHEA here

 

[notpuff]

Wether the product sucked or not you still gotta give props to PA for releasing androstendione . i mean he is right if he never released androstendione then there never would be 1-testor 1-ad etc. plus there are many reasons why it took balls to produce that stuff in the first place , he could have been scared of possible legal actions , i remebr i read a newsletter put out by PA years ago i think 98 or 99 where he said he was hesitant about releasing 19-nordiol because he didnt know if there would be legal ramifications so we should be thanking him

 

[Fortes]

Roger Oppenheimer (sorry, typo) is one of the physicists who worked on the Manhatten Project.

When he saw the first prototype nuke explode into a mushroom cloud back in the 40's, he quoted some Vedic scripture:

"Now I am become death; the Destroyer of Worlds."

Biotest took that quote and attached it to their MAG-10 hype script when it first came out.

As far as "self-projection" I haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about. I assymed that you, being a Biotest user and a T-mag reader, would recognize what I was saying.

Congrats on the good gains from the 1-AD. I gained around 3 pounds weekly when I was on 400mg/day, but I was also taking 1 gram of 4-AD daily stacked, in the same dosage regimen (4X a day).

Oh yeah, and BTW, both Biotest and PA have taken potshots at each other . . . I just don't know who started the whole thing. Biotest has been, IMO, especially nasty - but then again, their the Kings of Hype. What do you expect?

Oh yeah, and if you would calm yourself down you'd realize that PA is a cool guy. You don't see TC and Jock Strapper on Elite and other boards taking crap from guys like you . . . and the T-Mag board is so moderated and lame comparatively. At least Pat relies on good, honest marketing techiques like user feedback to sell and improve his products.

I have a feeling that this Myostatin thing is going to be a big flash in the pan . . . if so, T-mag/Biotest will lose a LOT of credibility, and rightly so.

P.S. T-mag has not been the same since Poliquin left. I do like some of John Berardi, Don Alessi, Ian King and Coach Davie's stuff, however - but I don't think any of 'em can compare with the inimitable style of Chucky P.

 

[pa1ad]

Wether the product sucked or not you still gotta give props to PA for releasing androstendione . i mean he is right if he never released androstendione then there never would be 1-testor 1-ad etc. plus there are many reasons why it took balls to produce that stuff in the first place , he could have been scared of possible legal actions , i remebr i read a newsletter put out by PA years ago i think 98 or 99 where he said he was hesitant about releasing 19-nordiol because he didnt know if there would be legal ramifications so we should be thanking him

We were all very worried about what kind of trouble selling that stuff would get us into at the time. That was unprecedented new ground. Today people don't remember any of that. Today they just say "Give us legal anadrol or your'e a scammer!!"

 

[notpuff]

We were all very worried about what kind of trouble selling that stuff would get us into at the time. That was unprecedented new ground. Today people don't remember any of that. Today they just say "Give us legal anadrol or your'e a scammer!!"

hes right ,so even if u hate him you still gotta give him props

also im sure the first ever steroid synthesized (i have no clue whaT IT was just making a assumtion) wasnt so great either or had allot of sides like androstendione

 

[pa1ad]

hes right ,so even if u hate him you still gotta give him props

also im sure the first ever steroid synthesized (i have no clue whaT IT was just making a assumtion) wasnt so great either or had allot of sides like androstendione

The first androgen ever used in therapy was androsterone. It is a very weak androgen but it had a measurable effect on hypogonadal subjects at the time. Did this mean the scientists that tested it and used it were scammers? Was Henry Ford a scammer for selling the Model A piece of crap? Jeezus H, you got to start somewhere