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arimidex vs nolvadex PCT

S

snagglepuss

New member
1. why is nolvadex considered better for PCT than arimidex?

2. If you didn't have nolva, but did have arimidex, could you use the arimidex instead?

thanks.
 
snagglepuss said:
one other thing- if one was going to take 20mg nolva per day, how much arimidex is appropriate for PCT?
Click to expand...

imo arimidex should be run during cycle througout pct
 
Arimidex doesn't really serve any purpose for PCT. The reason nolva works is because it attaches to estrogen receptors and tricks your body into thinking estrogen levels are too high. This causes your body to produce more of its own endogenous testosterone. All a-dex does is block aromatization. This will help you in preventing estrogen related symptoms such as gyno, but it won't help you recover; in fact, it may even hinder your recovery.
 
That's not right. Arimidex serves to increase natural test levels by lowering E levels. You've got that backwards. E IS the hormone controlling the feedback loop. It is the fact that your body reads low E that causes it makes more Test. Arimidex raises natural test levels in men by 54%.


For anyone interested the Veteran's Consensus on PCT is at Anabolic Fitness

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/library/recovery.htm

It splains it all.
 
Usually because it's cheaper and easier to get on the street. If you block E at the receptor than that's enough because your body's not going to know it's there. Some people argue that Arimidex affects lipids more as well. Bill Llewellyn makes some extrapolated arguement for Nolva as well in his book. But the fact is you're better off with Arimidex for PCT.
I wanted to edit this a little. Neither should be used alone. Just so everyone understands these are in addition to Clomid and HCG. Suppressing E when it's going to be very low already from no test being present post-cycle wouldn't make sense. But after a short time of low/no test your body will read that low E level and start pumping out the test. It's better to have your testes ready to do this for you by using HCG - Clomid to get LH moving.
 
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Ulter said:
Usually because it's cheaper and easier to get on the street. If you block E at the receptor than that's enough because your body's not going to know it's there. Some people argue that Arimidex affects lipids more as well. Bill Llewellyn makes some extrapolated arguement for Nolva as well in his book. But the fact is you're better off with Arimidex for PCT.
I wanted to edit this a little. Neither should be used alone. Just so everyone understands these are in addition to Clomid and HCG. Suppressing E when it's going to be very low already from no test being present post-cycle wouldn't make sense. But after a short time of low/no test your body will read that low E level and start pumping out the test. It's better to have your testes ready to do this for you by using HCG - Clomid to get LH moving.
Click to expand...

I actually did some more research, and I believe you are right. I can't remember where I got my previous information, but I'd like to kick the source's ass right about now. It still doesn't make sense to me to suppress e levels when they are already low after a cycle. Maybe you can clarify this for me. Thanks for being cool about it and straightening it out. I have no excuse except that I accepted false information as the truth. Now after doing more of my own research which was prompted by your posts, I can accept the truth as the truth. k Ulter!
 
Your body will respond to the low E by making test. When you come off the cycle and you run out of test, it's gradual. As the E levels fall below a certain level your HPTA will signal your testes to make test. The idea is to keep those E levels down low enough that this process starts sooner and lasts longer. These aren't real numbers but let's say your HPTA kicks on when your test levels are near 200ng/dl because it wants your levels at 300ng/dl. The test you injected will have you at 3000ng/dl. When you come off and the 3000ng/dl starts to count down every day, and gets to say 500nd/gl, and you're suppressing E with Arimidex that suppresses 59% of your E, your HPTA is going to read that 500ng/dl as near 200ng/dl because it's reading E levels not T levels. So you'll actually have more test in you than your body knows about.
 
Ulter said:
That's not right. Arimidex serves to increase natural test levels by lowering E levels. You've got that backwards. E IS the hormone controlling the feedback loop. It is the fact that your body reads low E that causes it makes more Test. Arimidex raises natural test levels in men by 54%.


For anyone interested the Veteran's Consensus on PCT is at Anabolic Fitness

http://www.anabolicfitness.net/library/recovery.htm

It splains it all.
Click to expand...
yea bro,

but keep in mind that the increased testosterone levels are only temporary and artificial, arimidex decreases your already low SHBG levels wich won't do you much good once you discontinue the arimidex
 
Güclü_oglan said:
yea bro,

but keep in mind that the increased testosterone levels are only temporary and artificial, arimidex decreases your already low SHBG levels wich won't do you much good once you discontinue the arimidex
Click to expand...


is that true of noladex, as well?
 
I gotta go with Krishna with this. Post cycle, you are not producing test. If you have no test, adex does nothing. Remember, it inactivates aromitase and prevents test conversion to estrogen, but if you have no test, its not effective.
SERMS like Clomid/Nolva actually bind to estro receptors and trigger release of LH (bodys attempt to increase test levels in the presence of estro activity). Onve test levels are going up, you can use adex to drop estro production and it could lead to increase in test production, i dont think by much though.
I can actually recover really fast off just a few weeks of clomid......big balls.
 
bigrand said:
I gotta go with Krishna with this. Post cycle, you are not producing test. If you have no test, adex does nothing. Remember, it inactivates aromitase and prevents test conversion to estrogen, but if you have no test, its not effective.
SERMS like Clomid/Nolva actually bind to estro receptors and trigger release of LH (bodys attempt to increase test levels in the presence of estro activity). Onve test levels are going up, you can use adex to drop estro production and it could lead to increase in test production, i dont think by much though.
I can actually recover really fast off just a few weeks of clomid......big balls.
Click to expand...
I am not posting the same thing twice. Read the other thread if you want to discuss this.
 
Im not disputing what you say about adex Ult, im just saying 3-4 weeks post shot, you have nothing, no test, no test to convert to estrogen, you have to start from square 1 with SERMS to at least start test production, then adex to lower E to get the Test pumpin faster.
 
bigrand said:
Im not disputing what you say about adex Ult, im just saying 3-4 weeks post shot, you have nothing, no test, no test to convert to estrogen, you have to start from square 1 with SERMS to at least start test production, then adex to lower E to get the Test pumpin faster.
Click to expand...

"you have nothing, no test, no test to convert to estrogen,"

That's overstated. Most of the time you WILL have test present, that's the whole idea. You don't ever want to go a single day without test so you want a smooth transition from your cycle test to your natural test. Arimidex creates an environment in your endocrine system to prevent a crash or a time when there is "... nothing, no test, no test to convert to estrogen". I am sure you've never experienced a day without test but if you do it will be very memorable.
Let me describe it to you.

You will feel as though you have mono. It will take all of your energy to get out of bed and you'll feel so depressed you may break into tears for no apparent reason. You can forget about training since you won't even have the energy to even walk to you car without taking a rest. Even the 12 hours of sleep you'll find yourself getting has no affect on your total exhaustion. As soon as you get out of bed you have to lie down again.

I just don't think you've got a handle on what your predicting actually happens when you come off. The instances of "no test" are very few and far between even without PCT. I'm not saying this doesn't happen to some people, since it's happened to me twice 15 and 17 yrs ago, but you don't see anyone posting this on the boards because it's so rare.
 
Ulter said:
since it's happened to me twice 15 and 17 yrs ago, but you don't see anyone posting this on the boards because it's so rare.
Click to expand...

what caused this for you? how did you know it was lack of test? and when you figured out why, what did you do ?
 
bigrand said:
I gotta go with Krishna with this. Post cycle, you are not producing test. If you have no test, adex does nothing. Remember, it inactivates aromitase and prevents test conversion to estrogen, but if you have no test, its not effective.
SERMS like Clomid/Nolva actually bind to estro receptors and trigger release of LH (bodys attempt to increase test levels in the presence of estro activity). Onve test levels are going up, you can use adex to drop estro production and it could lead to increase in test production, i dont think by much though.
I can actually recover really fast off just a few weeks of clomid......big balls.
Click to expand...

This is how I've been seeing it too. My reasoning was a little off though, but to say that the estrogen activity is what increases test production makes sense. So one thing that will make it clearer to me is to know whether nolva actually binds to receptors causing an estrogen signal, or if it simply blocks the receptor causing lack of an estrogen signal?
 
snagglepuss said:
what caused this for you? how did you know it was lack of test? and when you figured out why, what did you do ?
Click to expand...
I didn't know what it was. 15-20 years ago no one did PCT because no one had ever heard of it. There was nowhere to learn the things that you learn on boards like mine and this one. I didn't find out until the 3rd time is happened about 6 yrs ago and I happened to be going to a steroid doc at the time. He told me what it was.

"or if it simply blocks the receptor causing lack of an estrogen signal?"

this one
 
Ulter said:
I didn't know what it was. 15-20 years ago no one did PCT because no one had ever heard of it. There was nowhere to learn the things that you learn on boards like mine and this one. I didn't find out until the 3rd time is happened about 6 yrs ago and I happened to be going to a steroid doc at the time. He told me what it was.

"or if it simply blocks the receptor causing lack of an estrogen signal?"

this one
Click to expand...


thanks. when that happened, how long did it take for you natural test levels to return to normal without the PCT? the reason i ask is that i had similar symptoms for about two months after an earlier cycle i did. I never knew what caused it - i thought i was just going through a bout of depression - but after reading your post i realize it may have been low test levels. at that time, i only did about 2-3 wks of clomid post-cycle.
 
Ill give you that, no test would be highly detrimental to health and there is always some, but i guess my whole point is to actually stimulate the test production more directly, use SERMS which will trigger LH production in the pressence of none, very little or little test. They both have their modes of action (test stim) but SERMS are more effective because they dont really rely on test being in the body, sort of the round about way.
So use both!
Aromasin will work, anything that prevents estro formation.
 
Ulter said:
You will feel as though you have mono. It will take all of your energy to get out of bed and you'll feel so depressed you may break into tears for no apparent reason. You can forget about training since you won't even have the energy to even walk to you car without taking a rest. Even the 12 hours of sleep you'll find yourself getting has no affect on your total exhaustion. As soon as you get out of bed you have to lie down again.
Click to expand...

So feeling like the even when you've gotten a good sleep could be an indicator of messed up hormonal levels?
 
Is there a max to the amount of time you can stay on nolva? I'm running it in my cycle now and was wondering if I could keep running it through my pct along with clomid. If I were to do this I would be on nolva for six weeks, is this too long?

Not trying to steatl the thread either, cheers :beer:
 
Quick question while i have the brainiacs in the house..:

I'm on test cyp, eq. with armidex eod.

when i get off, i'm going to do hcg m,w,f and nolva ed slowing tapering off after 5 weeks.

think i'll be okay???
 
Great thread....so question is..could you do both? could you start pct with nolva and add the a-dex? or are you just as well with either? also...reading this thread...which would you prefer?
 
skip the a-dex for PCT, a couple of my reasons are:

-After a cycle your testosteronelevels are VERY low, so is your estrogen, killing the estrogenlevels even further is something i strongly would disadvice you to do in a health-perspective

-Bigger risk for heart and vessel diseases, i personally wouldn't like to have atherosclerotic plaques when going older

-Lowers your SHBG even further wich will lead to a longer recovery since it inhibits the recovery of TOTAL testosterone, wich should be the ULTIMATE indication of a recovery

-Through feedback, the ammount of aromatase will rise pretty high after discontinued administration (i would rather call it a "peak" from the diagrams) wich wouldn't be good for several reasons
 
Um no. Arimidex will inhibit the conversion of test. Post cycle you have high levels of Test still present. During this period if you stay with Arimidex your E levels will drop faster than the Test level ratio would really be. Since the HPTA is based on E levels for the feedback loop you will trigger your natural test sooner than you would really need it since your test levels would still be on the high to moderate side of normal. So you're tricking your HPTA into sensing lower T levels than you really have.
 
Ulter said:
Um no. Arimidex will inhibit the conversion of test. Post cycle you have high levels of Test still present. During this period if you stay with Arimidex your E levels will drop faster than the Test level ratio would really be. Since the HPTA is based on E levels for the feedback loop you will trigger your natural test sooner than you would really need it since your test levels would still be on the high to moderate side of normal. So you're tricking your HPTA into sensing lower T levels than you really have.
Click to expand...
Arimidex does not inhibit aromatisation with more then around 50%
 
krishna said:
Then why is nolva recommended for pct when it blocks receptors and does not stop further aromatization?
Click to expand...

Nolva is old school now. Anastrozole didn't become popular until about 5/6 years ago. It was a fairly new drug to the bodybuilding scene back when I joined elite. It had been spoken about before but I don't think it's true benefits to a bodybuilder were realised until about 2000.

It was also VERY expensive around that time until the UG labs started producing Liquidex. Liquidex is an UG product, Arimidex costs a fortune for a box of 28 but the option of cheap liquidex not being available made Nolva the more popular by far.

Now the price is so good, there is no reason to opt for second best. That's why I'll be running AG Liquidex this cycle! :chomp: lol

UglyASS :p
 
im sorry thats just not true. not only does a-dex block aromatization it will also increase natural test levels up to 58% if taken at the 1mg per day dose
 
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