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Harleymarleybone
New member
Any of you older dudes? What's your experience? I read they are sometimes catabolic among other side effects. But they sure clean your pipes out.
Anyone on statins?
- Thread starter Harleymarleybone
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billfred
New member
Tat has some good info on this. She posted up in another thread.
Zetia is my choice. No sides and a great response on just 5 mg M/W/F/Sun.
The others gave me hand muscle weakness.
The others gave me hand muscle weakness.
redsamurai
Banned
If you absoulutely have to be on statins, make sure you're supplimenting the crap out of yourself with CoQ10. Eating two whole grapefruits a day is the same as the average statin dose, same active ingredient........my pharmacist admitted that to me accidently. The bad thing statins do is strip the body of CoQ10 which is an important enzyme in the body's mitochondrial energy production. That's where the hand cramps and muscle weakness play in. Not a big deal.......but than you can get issues with your heart and brain. Statins can give you cardiac muscle problems..........not good. They've also been shown to potentially accelerate parkinsons.
So why don't they put Q10 in with the statin?!
Wow you need to relax there. Statins are very safe drugs and although they are associated with very rare muscle and liver problems, their benefits are huge even at a low dosage. Patients on statins are monitored routinely by their doctors to prevent very rare complications such as rhabdomyolysis and heptatis. Be vocal with your doctor about your symptoms and this will prevent any of the VERY RARE complications.
redsamurai
Banned
they're going to start doing that soon, it's just that right now q10 is SOOOOO god damn expensive.
redsamurai
Banned
that's not what new "independant" research is showing. After what I've been through in the last year I will never ever fully trust the medical industry let alone the drug companies. What I've found out through my own research not just about statins but other drugs......it's ridiculous. I could understand perscribing some of these compounds to people who're on the ropes. But the drug industry is pushing doctors to perscribe very powerful drugs to people who don't need them. Than of course you develop a need for these drugs and have to be on them the rest of your life. I used to think all this stuff about drug companies was alot of conspiratorial bullshit too.......but no more. I've seen "first hand" the collusion between the drug industry and the medical field.
Statins are BAD!
The cholesterol figures that are supposedly 'where we should be' are set deliberately low now, so that almost overnight, millions of people were classed as having high cholesterol - this gives the doctors and the drug undustry an excuse to push their expensive, dangerous, and recently I believe it was admitted by the FDA, that they aren't actually proven to lower cholesterol.
Eat properly, take your Q10 and don't believe the lies vehemently touted by so called experts - who have a vested interest in the sale of drugs!
Visit Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola and search for Statins. You'll be enlightened... and lose a few weeks of your life reading all the info! lol.
Best thing I ever did was get my mum off Statins a month or so ago.
Calcium deposits more likely to cause heart problems than cholesterol... and where do you think Testosterone comes from....
The cholesterol figures that are supposedly 'where we should be' are set deliberately low now, so that almost overnight, millions of people were classed as having high cholesterol - this gives the doctors and the drug undustry an excuse to push their expensive, dangerous, and recently I believe it was admitted by the FDA, that they aren't actually proven to lower cholesterol.
Eat properly, take your Q10 and don't believe the lies vehemently touted by so called experts - who have a vested interest in the sale of drugs!
Visit Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola and search for Statins. You'll be enlightened... and lose a few weeks of your life reading all the info! lol.
Best thing I ever did was get my mum off Statins a month or so ago.
Calcium deposits more likely to cause heart problems than cholesterol... and where do you think Testosterone comes from....
Actually the original formulations of statins DID include CoQ10 and my understanding is that some of the European brands do include it. Any decent heart doctor who puts you on statins will tell you to take it.
A study was published in the last few weeks concluding that statins may be beneficial to many people who don't have high cholesterol:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/health/10heart.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Here is a follow-up questioning the study's findings:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/health/18well.html?ref=science
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
This study was done by the drug company who made the drug.
I think that is is a good idea to try and lower your cholesterol with diet and exercise first, possibly a few natural supplements.
What I am finding quite odd is that levels that are considered normal and quite acceptable in the UK and Europe are considered to be high in the US.
If you are an individual who is obese, has other risk factors for heart disease such as metabolic syndrome and/or diabetes, familial hyperlipidaemia, high blood pressure, then statins are a good idea.
Statins inhibit an enzyme that not only affects cholesterol, but the steroid hormones, including testosterone, signal transduction, antioxidants, structural components of the cell, and cell proliferation.
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Nothing rare about the side effects. I know 12 people that were on statins and 11 of them had moderate to severe muscle aches and overall discomfort. 8 have stopped taking them and 2 started a high dosage CoQ10 regimen. Last time I checked, all had recovered although it took one of them 9 months for the arm muscles to stop aching.
There are also good articles about the statins causing memory and focus issues in long time users, including articles from NASA doctors.
There are also good articles about the statins causing memory and focus issues in long time users, including articles from NASA doctors.
redsamurai
Banned
and those fuckers are pushing for statins to be prescribed to children. It's almost deserving of murder. I don't want to hear about how I'm doing the "conspiracy" thing. They know full well what their drugs do and they want people to be binded to their drugs for life......so get em young. Any parent, even with obese children, to consider putting their children on these drugs INSTEAD of altering their diet......should be shot. Notice how these parents lament their childrens health issue's blaming it on genetics, all while the kid is stuffing himself/herself with processed undigestable sugars/starches and whatnot on a daily basis? People nowadays were raised on garbage so they have no idea how to properly feed their children.
Harleymarleybone
New member
Your argument contradicts itself. You say not to believe the doctors and drug companies who recommend statins since they have a vested interest, then you tout "Dr. Mercola" who has a vested interest in criticizing the doctors and drug companies, so he can sell his "natural" supplements. WTF????
Harleymarleybone
New member
What independent research? The flaw in your argument is that even assuming there is a "conspiracy" between the drug companies and doctors who push their drugs, it does not follow that the drugs they are pushing are not good for you. I would even wager a large sum that most of the "independent" research you have been reading is propagated by someone who is pushing supplements as an alternative to statins. Here is a pretty conclusive study showing the benefits of one of the statins:
Study: Statin Helps Even If Cholesterol Is Normal : NPR
redsamurai
Banned
You're going to quote an american heart association study? That's like the stronghold of this whole thing.........these are not bipartisan researchers.
Nobody is going to convince me that drug peddling is a superior way to get healthier than changing your diet and excercise habits. To even suggest taking these drugs as preventative care is criminal.......morally and ethically debunkt. It's amazing how different the medical field in europe treats this drug issue. They see these type of drugs as a last line of defense.........useful in end stage cases where simply changing lifestyle habits is too little too late. They would never even consider handing this shit out to children.
And if you think it's cool to even be thinking about prevantive prescriptions of statins for children, you've got some screws loose and should hit yourself over the head with a shovel as soon as possible.
Wouldn't you rather see a kid stop stuffing his face with mcnuggets than continue his shit eating habits but take a whole drug cocktail everyday? That's what it's going to get too, for children and adults. Nobody's suggesting we stop over consuming, it's "continue as you were and take our drugs".........that's just disgusting.
Nobody is going to convince me that drug peddling is a superior way to get healthier than changing your diet and excercise habits. To even suggest taking these drugs as preventative care is criminal.......morally and ethically debunkt. It's amazing how different the medical field in europe treats this drug issue. They see these type of drugs as a last line of defense.........useful in end stage cases where simply changing lifestyle habits is too little too late. They would never even consider handing this shit out to children.
And if you think it's cool to even be thinking about prevantive prescriptions of statins for children, you've got some screws loose and should hit yourself over the head with a shovel as soon as possible.
Wouldn't you rather see a kid stop stuffing his face with mcnuggets than continue his shit eating habits but take a whole drug cocktail everyday? That's what it's going to get too, for children and adults. Nobody's suggesting we stop over consuming, it's "continue as you were and take our drugs".........that's just disgusting.
redsamurai
Banned
my pharmacist admitted to me that the reason they say not to eat grapefruits while taking statins is that it builds up the active compound in your system too much cause they're the same damn thing. Basically I guess statins were synthesized from some compound found in grapefruits, among other things. So just eat grapefruits. From what I understand the acid in grapefruits burns out the plaque buildup in your arteries.
Harleymarleybone
New member
No, no, no. You are misinformed. It does not build up the active compound because they are the "same damn thing." Grapefruit juice blocks enzymes that help your intestines absorb many drugs, not just statins.
Grapefruit Juice Can Interact With Medicines! - Mens Health: Health and Medical Information About Mens Health Issues on MedicineNet.com
Harleymarleybone
New member
At least I gave a source (the AHA). You have not provided any. I trust the AHA over the sources you are relying on, since they try to demonize statins to peddle their own "alternative" (hehe) products.
Nobody said diet and exercise were not superior. Who is saying that?
Whether some children should take statins is not the question I posed in the thread. I was inquiring about myself. I am not a pediatrician. Are you?
And who cares about what Europe does? Europeans are panzie asses, and don't bathe enough.
heavydutyhit
New member
Relax Red...., I come in peace.
As far as Red's "conspiracy theory"....., IMO it is not a theory. Anyone who has spent some significant time in a hospital setting on the employee side of things can usually attest to the fact that 9/10 times...., the Doctors treatment plan is influenced by outside organizations.
An example is an emergency room physician recommending a 7-10 day admission to the hospital for pain control/observation, and then the next day getting informed that the patient's medical insurance company will only pay for 4 day stay in the hospital. Why? Because there was some pencil pushing geek 5-6 states away with no college education (let alone a medical degree), with a chart at his desk that tells him exactly "how much stuff" the insurance company will cover based on the medical diagnosis, with no attention paid to individual variation/complications. It is absolute bullshit.
Back to Red's point, are you really buying the fact that 95% of physicians out there are infinitely bewildered with regards to proper diet/exercise recommendations to control heart disease? If not, then why would they FIRST be inclined to prescribe pharmaceutical control BEFORE attempting to modify one's unhealthy lifestyle, as Red has mentioned? Look no further than the physicians desk. I will bet you it is riddled with all kinds of free shit bearing the name of the drug/pharmaceutical company he is enslaved to. Pens, notepads, clipboards, little calculators, cute little paperweights, and whatever other bullshit he gets from them. These Dr.s have some type of invested interest in making sure that these drugs are successfully prescribed to a certain quota of patients.
The medical community is like the political arena today. The people in charge are being run from behind the scenes by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies because medicine is BIG BUSINESS! It is no different than the oil companies controlling who gets put into the white house. It is all about the money, who gives a shit about the patient.
redsamurai
Banned
holy shit you do get it.......well fuck me running! That's the point I've been trying to make now for months and I thought you were fighting me on it. Doctors aren't allowed to be doctors anymore, they're simply automatons of the pharmaceutical industry. Not all obviousl. But there's somethign I'd like your comment on since you're now preparing to become a doctor if you're not already one.
I'm assuming you're up to your eyeballs in debt from your education. So you're probably not going to do anything remotely close to possibly fucking with your liscensure cause then you've got all that debt and no ability to practice. Do you think this is why so few doctors are williing to buck the trend? I'm assuming the AMA is the driving force behind this push to bring all doctors under "control". Is it them that can force you out of the field if you don't play good boy? Pardon me if I'm way off on this cause I don't know the ins and outs of the regulatory practices of the medical field.
I'm assuming you're up to your eyeballs in debt from your education. So you're probably not going to do anything remotely close to possibly fucking with your liscensure cause then you've got all that debt and no ability to practice. Do you think this is why so few doctors are williing to buck the trend? I'm assuming the AMA is the driving force behind this push to bring all doctors under "control". Is it them that can force you out of the field if you don't play good boy? Pardon me if I'm way off on this cause I don't know the ins and outs of the regulatory practices of the medical field.
heavydutyhit
New member
No not a Dr., a CNMT and am currently in PA school. My father, however, is a physician. He bitches about this shit all of the time. I was going to go on to Medical School because I have the grades, and qualify for Financial Assistance ect., but when I told my dad what I wanted to do he forbid it. Why would a father forbid his son from going to medical school?
Answer: He sat me down and explained to me that to be a successful physician in this day and age you have to sell your soul. He feels as if he is being forced to violate the Hippocratic Oath he took when he graduated Med school, because he is in a position where his medical decisions are influenced, and sometimes straight out controlled, by people with NO medical education whatsoever.
I am going to paint a hypothetical scenario here. Lets say, for amusement, that there is a hospital that runs just like this. There is a medical "board" that runs the hospital and basically bosses the physicans around. On this board, there is only ONE person with any medical education that regularly attends board meetings...., a fucking nurse. Nothing against nurses, my wife is a nurse, but in no capacity should a nurse be controlling any of the staffing and protocol issues of an emergency room dept. The main "overseeing physician" on the board never shows up to meetings, because he is too busy hanging out in Las Vegas and playing golf in Ft. Lauderdale. The other people on the board are basically businessmen with absolutely NO MEDICAL EDUCATION, and close ties to pharmaceutical reps. These are the people that run the inner workings of the entire ER dept. They are in charge of who works, who doesn't, who gets hired, and who gets fired. So in other words..., if you want to work there..., you better play ball and keep your fucking mouth shut.
Another problem is the "independent" companies buying out all of the Dr.'s contracts. Let me paint another hypothetical scenario. A certain physician refuses to work for this independent company, and wishes to remain on the hospital's payroll..., he then gets a letter in the mail 2 weeks later from his malpractice insurance carrier informing him that his yearly cost for malpractice insurance has been..., TRIPLED! When he refuses to pay it, the INSURANCE company files a petition to have his medical license revoked/suspended on basis of refusal to carry medical malpractice insurance. All of this on a physician with 30 years seniority and not one case of malpractice EVER! So that "independent" company then of course calls and offers to make it all go away. So he has no choice. Period.
It is a bunch of bullshit politics, and the revenues are more important than the success rate of treatment for patients. It makes it very hard for moral and ethically true physicians to make it in today's health care scene.
So I decided to go to PA school and let all the bullshit responsibility fall onto whatever physician I work for. I don't have the stomach for selling out the way one would need to to "make it" today as a physician. People can say whatever they wish, but as I said earlier, if you don't witness the inner workings..., then you just believe what you see on TV.
Answer: He sat me down and explained to me that to be a successful physician in this day and age you have to sell your soul. He feels as if he is being forced to violate the Hippocratic Oath he took when he graduated Med school, because he is in a position where his medical decisions are influenced, and sometimes straight out controlled, by people with NO medical education whatsoever.
I am going to paint a hypothetical scenario here. Lets say, for amusement, that there is a hospital that runs just like this. There is a medical "board" that runs the hospital and basically bosses the physicans around. On this board, there is only ONE person with any medical education that regularly attends board meetings...., a fucking nurse. Nothing against nurses, my wife is a nurse, but in no capacity should a nurse be controlling any of the staffing and protocol issues of an emergency room dept. The main "overseeing physician" on the board never shows up to meetings, because he is too busy hanging out in Las Vegas and playing golf in Ft. Lauderdale. The other people on the board are basically businessmen with absolutely NO MEDICAL EDUCATION, and close ties to pharmaceutical reps. These are the people that run the inner workings of the entire ER dept. They are in charge of who works, who doesn't, who gets hired, and who gets fired. So in other words..., if you want to work there..., you better play ball and keep your fucking mouth shut.
Another problem is the "independent" companies buying out all of the Dr.'s contracts. Let me paint another hypothetical scenario. A certain physician refuses to work for this independent company, and wishes to remain on the hospital's payroll..., he then gets a letter in the mail 2 weeks later from his malpractice insurance carrier informing him that his yearly cost for malpractice insurance has been..., TRIPLED! When he refuses to pay it, the INSURANCE company files a petition to have his medical license revoked/suspended on basis of refusal to carry medical malpractice insurance. All of this on a physician with 30 years seniority and not one case of malpractice EVER! So that "independent" company then of course calls and offers to make it all go away. So he has no choice. Period.
It is a bunch of bullshit politics, and the revenues are more important than the success rate of treatment for patients. It makes it very hard for moral and ethically true physicians to make it in today's health care scene.
So I decided to go to PA school and let all the bullshit responsibility fall onto whatever physician I work for. I don't have the stomach for selling out the way one would need to to "make it" today as a physician. People can say whatever they wish, but as I said earlier, if you don't witness the inner workings..., then you just believe what you see on TV.
redsamurai
Banned
And that more people don't see a problem with this is staggering. This is the problem with healthcare, not the insurance companies.....it's "this". For all the great things modern medicine is doing and is about to do, this just simply cannot be. Thank you for writing this ht, very enlightening. And I personally commend you for realizing what you were about to drop into.
heavydutyhit
New member
Thanks brother. I appreciate it. Nice to know someone else isn't fooled by all of the propaganda into thinking that here in the USA we have "the best healthcare in the world." We have the POTENTIAL for the best healthcare in the world, but if you are not one of the infinitely rich..., forget about it. Again it comes down to who has the money, and who is willing to pay for the care.
A case in point in Magic Johnson. What was I like 9 when he got HIV? And his ass isn't only still alive, he is making fucking commercials on TV still! Lets see the survival rates of other people diagnosed with HIV the same year Magic was, with the only difference being their net yearly income.
The illusion of equality.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
There is a fair amount of research that is linking higher levels of cholesterol, HDL in particular, to longetivity.
The funny thing about this research, a lot of it isn't that new.
It also appears that some statins raise HDL as well.
I really don't think that the link with cholesterol and heart disease is going to be all that clear cut.
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Elevated high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and normal triglycerides as markers of longevity
M. Nikkilä1, T. Pitkäjärvi1, T. Koivula1 and J. Heikkinen1
(1) Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Tampere, Finland
Received: 7 June 1991 Accepted: 8 July 1991
Summary Serum cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides of 85 year old home-living persons were compared to those of controls and of patients who had severe coronary artery disease (CAD) at an early age. Eightyfive-year-olds had higher serum HDL cholesterol than controls and patients with CAD. Patients with severe CAD had higher serum total cholesterol and serum triglycerides and lower HDL-cholesterol than other groups. When 85-year-old persons were divided into quintiles according to serum HDL cholesterol, women with highest HDL cholesterol had lowest mortality, men with lowest HDL cholesterol had highest mortality. We conclude that elevated HDL cholesterol is correlating with longevity and low HDL cholesterol with CAD at an early age.
Key words Cholesterol - HDL cholesterol - Triglycerides - Longevity
Abbreviations HDL high density lipoprotein - CAD coronary artery disease
The funny thing about this research, a lot of it isn't that new.
It also appears that some statins raise HDL as well.
I really don't think that the link with cholesterol and heart disease is going to be all that clear cut.
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Elevated high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and normal triglycerides as markers of longevity
M. Nikkilä1, T. Pitkäjärvi1, T. Koivula1 and J. Heikkinen1
(1) Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Tampere, Finland
Received: 7 June 1991 Accepted: 8 July 1991
Summary Serum cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides of 85 year old home-living persons were compared to those of controls and of patients who had severe coronary artery disease (CAD) at an early age. Eightyfive-year-olds had higher serum HDL cholesterol than controls and patients with CAD. Patients with severe CAD had higher serum total cholesterol and serum triglycerides and lower HDL-cholesterol than other groups. When 85-year-old persons were divided into quintiles according to serum HDL cholesterol, women with highest HDL cholesterol had lowest mortality, men with lowest HDL cholesterol had highest mortality. We conclude that elevated HDL cholesterol is correlating with longevity and low HDL cholesterol with CAD at an early age.
Key words Cholesterol - HDL cholesterol - Triglycerides - Longevity
Abbreviations HDL high density lipoprotein - CAD coronary artery disease
redsamurai
Banned
I know in men that cholesterol is synthesized into Test, not sure what the female body does with it. But elevated levels of cholesterol are only dangerous in people who have high levels of inflammation. The cholesterol can raise your BP and cause a rupture which of course leads to a heart attack, but blameing heart disease solely on cholesterol is retarded, but lucrative as we can see. The pharmaceutical industry, with full compliance of the medical field, has taken something like heart disease which is the result of a number of things going wrong with the human "system"......and broken it down into one single factor. And they do that so they can put the entire world on statins. Anything in overabundance is bad for you, so I"m not saying that cholesterol levels can be whatever they please. But "normal" cholesterol levels are a natural byproduct of a balanced diet, simple as that.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
All the sex steroid hormones are synthesised from cholesterol.
They share an initial common pathway from pregnolone.
Testosterone is converted to oestrogen and androstendione is converted to estrone.
Oestrogen and estrone are interchangeable, as are testosterone and oestrogen.
The chemical structure of all of these hormones is very visually similar.
Drug reps have actually been banned from our hospital for the reasons touched upon above.
Also, anyone diagnosed with high triglycerides should first consider plain old Vitamin B-3 (niacin) in the form of nicotinic acid. This is the sort that will flush you until your body acclimiates, which actually only takes a few days. You can eventually triate to 3-4k mgs daily with very little, if any flushing. No diet mods at all my triglycerides dropped about 40 points on it. Also, beats the heck out of caffeine for providing mental clarity from the increased blood flow to the brain.
Also, anyone diagnosed with high triglycerides should first consider plain old Vitamin B-3 (niacin) in the form of nicotinic acid. This is the sort that will flush you until your body acclimiates, which actually only takes a few days. You can eventually triate to 3-4k mgs daily with very little, if any flushing. No diet mods at all my triglycerides dropped about 40 points on it. Also, beats the heck out of caffeine for providing mental clarity from the increased blood flow to the brain.
redsamurai
Banned
So I haven't been able to stop chuckling since I looked up food sources of B-3.......rabbit of all the damn things, fucking rabbit..
I have the urge to break out the bow tonight and see if I can grill me up some rabbit......mmmmmmmm that sounds "delicious"
I have the urge to break out the bow tonight and see if I can grill me up some rabbit......mmmmmmmm that sounds "delicious"
So I haven't been able to stop chuckling since I looked up food sources of B-3.......rabbit of all the damn things, fucking rabbit..
I have the urge to break out the bow tonight and see if I can grill me up some rabbit......mmmmmmmm that sounds "delicious"
Rabbit! Lemme hit Costco and stock up on some frozen rabbit.
No food source is gonna take enough B-3 to exert a lipid lowering effect. Bottle of Twinlab 1000mg caps is dirt cheap.
redsamurai
Banned
Rabbit! Lemme hit Costco and stock up on some frozen rabbit.
No food source is gonna take enough B-3 to exert a lipid lowering effect. Bottle of Twinlab 1000mg caps is dirt cheap.
I dunno, I juice Kale and wheatgrass pretty religiously. I'm just not big on "supplementation" anymore. The human body was meant to process it's nutrients from food sources. I read some article some time ago about a study they did about vitamin C from a pill vs. orange juice. The people they tested had better absorbtion rates from the juice than from the pills.
165pwrlifter
New member
you need a new pharmacist...this is innacurate and reckless information.
redsamurai
Banned
than why the grapefruit ban? Does it work synergistically with the statins? I've heard it before too that something from grapefruits was the basis they used to design statins. So it's not just from one person.
165pwrlifter
New member
there is something (I am not sure what) in grapefruits that boots statins. One would think this is a good thing, however, it can make dosing a nightmare. That's why they say to stay way from it.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
Grapefruit juice inhibits the cytochrome p450 enzyme system in the mitochondria, which are in abundance in your liver and with regards to drugs, they break down drugs and toxins.
There are adverse drugs reactions with grapefruit juice and some drugs, for example, anti-depressants, as the drug is not broken down as much as it is meant to and builds up to toxic levels in your body.
There are adverse drugs reactions with grapefruit juice and some drugs, for example, anti-depressants, as the drug is not broken down as much as it is meant to and builds up to toxic levels in your body.
I'm 37yrs old and on Atorvistatin. I was a boxer since the age of 16yrs old and my fitness and diet has been consistently on point my whole life. It's checked, reviewed and assessed on a regular basis. I have a RHR of 60bpm. However I have a high cholesterol level. Its 7.7 and it's hereditary. To say I should eat grapefruits and get fitter is an insult. Statins aren't perfect but they are saving the lives of millions of people daily. Any decent doctor will only prescribe statins once diet and exercise has been implemented and has failed.
redsamurai
Banned
the problem is....is your diet really on point? What I"ve learned in the last two years is that even when you think you're eating healthy, you're not. Food today, and this goes back a few decades, has been steadily losing nutritional value. You pretty much have to eat two pounds of food to get the same energy out of what was one pound fifty years ago. I'm not even going to talk about chemicals and hormones, just pure nutrional value....it isn't there anymore. Even spinach, which is what we're told is the best thing out there......has lost a significant percentage of it's nutrient density. Data only goes back to the fifty's and even then it's rough. If they had nutrional testing in the 1800's people would probably be appalled at how much has been lost.
mildcigar_2001
New member
I'm in my mid-forties and have been on Lipitor for about 5 years. So far no side effects. My Cholesterol level was on the high side of normal since my twenties. On the Statins + Niaspan my LDL in in the 60s and my HDL in in the low forties.
The reason I went on a statin was I finally decided that I should stop playing around with it (heart disease runs in my family, Mom had stents placed in her 50s). I finally realized that my diet was never going to be good enough to have any significant impact on my cholesterol level. Plus the research on statin drugs shows a substantial reduction in the risk of stroke and heart attack. So I take my Lipitor, Niaspan and CoQ-10, as well as fiber and red wine).
The reason I went on a statin was I finally decided that I should stop playing around with it (heart disease runs in my family, Mom had stents placed in her 50s). I finally realized that my diet was never going to be good enough to have any significant impact on my cholesterol level. Plus the research on statin drugs shows a substantial reduction in the risk of stroke and heart attack. So I take my Lipitor, Niaspan and CoQ-10, as well as fiber and red wine).
redsamurai
Banned
another thing I've learned in the last year or so is that the direness of high cholesterol is not quite what they make it to be. High cholesterol along with high inflammation count in the body is what causes these ruptures that lead to hear attacks. If a person manages inflammation high cholesterol seems to actually be beneficial as the body converts it to hormones, testosterone in particular. Problem is in this society we are exposed to inflammatory markers on a constant basis. You can't get away from it. They're in the food, water, air....you name it. If you took your high cholesterol into the canadian wilderness you wouldn't have a problem whatsoever.
I have been on statins now for 5-6 years. Statins had been around for a few years by 2004 and at that time they were beginning to be known for not only reducing cholesterol levels but apparently lowering heart attacks/strokes as well. Around 2004 I came across an article online that suggested statins reduced your CRP (Creatine Reactive Protein). The article also suggested that elevated levels of CRP was associated with an increased risk of heart attacks/strokes.
There are a number of people who are apparently healthy, eat right, exercise and yet drop dead from a heart attack/stroke every day for no apparent reason while walking down the street. Everyone either knows someone or has heard of someone this has happened to. Autopsies performed on them found no conclusive evidence of heart disease/neurological anomolies. Yet a significant percentage had elevated levels of CRP.
CRP is a marker for inflammation. Elevations in CRP are thought to indicate inflammation in blood vessals, a process that occurs with atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis is a disease of the arteries which causes the formation of plaques in the walls of the arteries. Atherosclerotic plaques consist of deposits of fat, cholesterol, calcium, and large cells called macrophages.
This information made me literally fly to my dr.'s office and demand a blood test to among other things determine my CRP level. At that time the range for CRP was between 2.0 - 6.5. Dr's felt anything over 6.5 was life threatening. My CRP tested 11.2 damn near twice as high as the maximum allowed. If you believed there might be connection between CRP and heart attacks/strokes(which I did) then I was a walking candidate for a heart attack/stroke. My dr. immediately put me on a statin and my CRP level since then has been below 2.0
Fast forward to 2008. The JUPITER trial, published in November 2008 in the New England Journal of Medicine, was designed to test whether statins could improve the clinical outcome of patients with high CRP levels. In JUPITER, nearly 18,000 men and women from 25 countries -- all of whom had "normal" cholesterol levels and high CRP levels -- were randomized to receive either the statin drug Crestor or a placebo.
The result? Those who were given Crestor had a 44% reduction in nonfatal heart attack or stroke, unstable angina, the need for stenting or bypass surgery, and cardiovascular death than those who were receiving placebo. Patients taking the statin also had significant reductions in both their cholesterol levels (which, again, were not elevated at the beginning of the study) and their CRP levels.
I urge everyone to get their CRP level checked the next time they go in for blood work. It could literally save your life.
There are a number of people who are apparently healthy, eat right, exercise and yet drop dead from a heart attack/stroke every day for no apparent reason while walking down the street. Everyone either knows someone or has heard of someone this has happened to. Autopsies performed on them found no conclusive evidence of heart disease/neurological anomolies. Yet a significant percentage had elevated levels of CRP.
CRP is a marker for inflammation. Elevations in CRP are thought to indicate inflammation in blood vessals, a process that occurs with atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis is a disease of the arteries which causes the formation of plaques in the walls of the arteries. Atherosclerotic plaques consist of deposits of fat, cholesterol, calcium, and large cells called macrophages.
This information made me literally fly to my dr.'s office and demand a blood test to among other things determine my CRP level. At that time the range for CRP was between 2.0 - 6.5. Dr's felt anything over 6.5 was life threatening. My CRP tested 11.2 damn near twice as high as the maximum allowed. If you believed there might be connection between CRP and heart attacks/strokes(which I did) then I was a walking candidate for a heart attack/stroke. My dr. immediately put me on a statin and my CRP level since then has been below 2.0
Fast forward to 2008. The JUPITER trial, published in November 2008 in the New England Journal of Medicine, was designed to test whether statins could improve the clinical outcome of patients with high CRP levels. In JUPITER, nearly 18,000 men and women from 25 countries -- all of whom had "normal" cholesterol levels and high CRP levels -- were randomized to receive either the statin drug Crestor or a placebo.
The result? Those who were given Crestor had a 44% reduction in nonfatal heart attack or stroke, unstable angina, the need for stenting or bypass surgery, and cardiovascular death than those who were receiving placebo. Patients taking the statin also had significant reductions in both their cholesterol levels (which, again, were not elevated at the beginning of the study) and their CRP levels.
I urge everyone to get their CRP level checked the next time they go in for blood work. It could literally save your life.
redsamurai
Banned
excellent post about CRP. Right on the money except that there are other and better ways to reduce inflammation in your body than taking statins. In 20 years they will admit that statins weren't a free lunch. In the meantime people who take them without COq10 supplementation will continue to face health problems down the road that will "of course" be attributed to something else. I understand what statins can do for a specific condition.....but overall what they strip from your body can be equally as bad for you in the longrun. Having adverse affects on the mitochondria in your heart is no joke. This doesn't happen overnight either. It can take years and by then the damage can be very difficult to reverse.
This is why I love this forum. I'm not arrogant enough to believe I have all the answers so I go here to learn. Contributors like u redsamurai provide more info for me to conduct research on. I weasn't aware of the effect on COq10. Now I'll have to go read some more. Thanks!
btw- I assume when u say "there are other and better ways to reduce inflammation in your body" u are referring to CRP. Would u care to elaborate on some of these other ways ?
snowman51
redsamurai
Banned
Lifestyle changes mainly. Learning about and then recognizing what the human body is optimally designed to digest/absorb/assimilate etc. I'm just starting down the path, took me 20 years but whatever...lol. It's not one magic pill or one "thing" you can do. It's realizing what's taking you out of balance and what the body does to compensate. The human body can visciously turn against us...most people don't realize this. They think this is some organic vessel that we can fuck on all we want and just take drugs if something goes wrong. It's the wrong call. What causes inflammation in the body is a complex suject because inflammation can be a good thing for certain events. Like I said, I'm just starting this run so I can't speak as an ultimate authority. But I encourage you to continue your research....that's exactly how I got to where I am now. It's quite eye opening when it dawns on you that you're being actively sabotaged by our current environment. Good luck.
Yes ... there can be side effects. They start with your hands. Pain and loss of grip.
And they do work!
I suggest you start off at half dosage and see what happens.
And they do work!
I suggest you start off at half dosage and see what happens.
this is correct...statins are generally very safe. I dont know of a single cardiologist that does not take a statin themselves. There is a great argument that everyone over 40 should be on a statin. It has tremendous cardiac protective abilities. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages at least 10:1
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