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any endurance athletes out there?

Phytin is the same AS IP6 (inositol phosphate, or phytic acid). It's a good detoxifier and lactic acid buffer, also used for cancer therapy. I took it for about only 1 month, but it does nothing for me. Maybe I didn't took enough to notice anything.
If you want to find it, try www.netrition.com , they have very good prices ($10,95 for 40 tabs)
 
Yo wheres my peeps at?

just started nolva 20 mg a day/am-pm
hcg 1500 i.u's ED both of these for 3 weeks. *tip start hcg & nolva the last week(orals) or 2 weeks (oils) of cycle and proceed for 2 more weeks.

gonna start some eq,proviron,arimidex :) soon!

anyone in california gonna do camp pendleton bike race?
 
lactic acid buffers

so, has anyone ever tried one of these lactic acid buffers? i just ordered some because they were relatively inexpensive (15.95 after shipping). I've used good ol' Arm and Hammer baking soda, but you have to constantly experiment with the dosage due to the heat and intensity because it will make you puke.



CIao,
Rolf
 
I've used Phos Fuel by twin labs which is available at GNC. Can't say if it helped that much because the effect is subtle. I do know that it's effectiveness drops if you use it all the time. You need to load up on it a week before a big event. Joe Friel talks about it in his book Cyclist Training Bible.
 
yeah, i use phosfuel also b4 important races. soidum bicarbonate loading has been around for years i believe in it.
 
Q about EPO use

I've finally found a supplier for EPO, but this shit is so expensive that I can only order 10-12 X 2000iu vials.
Is it enough too see the effects ?
That's what i plan to stack for a year basis :
Eq 400mg weeks 1-12
Masteron 200-250mg week 1-6
clomid w 14-16
EPO w 17-19 (4 x 2000iu/week)
syntheselen (human version of kynoselen, I take it for 10 days at 2ml ed with amazing results on energy levels...) w 20-26
Weeks 27-52 : repeat...

EPO improvements are lasting up to 4 months (RBC life), so I'll still have high hematocrit levels at the beginning of Eq intake, and when the EPO effects decrease, the Eq will do the job to keep these levels high.

Advice needed, please.
 
re: lactate acid buffers

30-40gms creatine the night before and 3 Twin Labs Pyruvate Fuel caps 1hr before is the super TT set up. Pyruvate is a good lactate buffer and creatine is awesome for TTs. Gives you awesome boost as far as being able to push a massive gear the entire time.

FHG
 
I'd take a anti-e while on EQ to minimalize muscle growth

last week of EQ (i think its 16) id take a fast acting androgen-methyltest,dbol,test susp. then take the clomid-this is all to keep your body's androgens level.

only advice i can give you on the epo is blood work ! blood work!
keep testing your hematocrit & keep it under control. also take an aspirin a day, thin the blood.

also try hcg & nolvadex instead of clomid an see which you respond better too.

what about gh!? keep us posted on what other people advised you to do!

lets learn from each other!
 
Thanks Triguy.

I didn't notice it on my stack, but I plan to use HCG 2 x 2500 iu week 8, then proviron 50mg ed w 16-17 right before clomid. and probably 0,25mg arimidex eod when on Eq
I know I should take aspirin, but not for how many time (just when on EPO, or througout the entire cycle ?).
I'll also add iron with EPO to help my body to build new RBC...
and check my BP ed to make sure I'm not over 16/9...
 
phytin

gave that phytin stuff a try this past weekend on a group ride (4 hrs.) on sat. I felt pretty damn good. If it was the phytin that was making me feel good at the end of the ride when everyone else was dropping like flies, it doesn't kick in for a few hours. I took mine about 1.15 hrs before the ride began with breakfast and I only took .5 the dosage (2 instead of 4). I guess it's worth it because you get a lot of stuff. Wasn't sore at all the next day either... the ride was fast and hilly. Also, lifted weights real hard night before ride.

Btw, i also just found out i had disentary, my doc. put me on cipro and sent me on my way... i hope that didn't throw off my positive results. Also, i don't think these work for everyone, a friend used to use the same stuff and he said it didn't do a damn thing...

ROlf

keep posting ya'll
 
Re: phytin

rolfaldag said:
gave that phytin stuff a try this past weekend on a group ride (4 hrs.) on sat. I felt pretty damn good. If it was the phytin that was making me feel good at the end of the ride when everyone else was dropping like flies, it doesn't kick in for a few hours. I took mine about 1.15 hrs before the ride began with breakfast and I only took .5 the dosage (2 instead of 4). I guess it's worth it because you get a lot of stuff. Wasn't sore at all the next day either... the ride was fast and hilly. Also, lifted weights real hard night before ride.

Btw, i also just found out i had disentary, my doc. put me on cipro and sent me on my way... i hope that didn't throw off my positive results. Also, i don't think these work for everyone, a friend used to use the same stuff and he said it didn't do a damn thing...

ROlf

keep posting ya'll

So did you order that phytin stuff from BulgarianDrugs.com or did just take that inositol IP6? I am interested in this stuff.

Thanks for the props rolf. Dug that movie. Had to watch it twice, once backwards!?!?

FHG
 
phytin

netrition.com.... get one of their catalogs too... some of their prices on things like Endurox are cheap compared to the wholesaler.

Anyone here using ribose year round?

Ciao,
Rolf
 
bump..pleasedon't die o'wonderful endurance thread

sorry guys was swampedtoday and didn't have time to add any good info

FHG
 
damnit ya'll- keep it rollin'

hey, about vb-12, I've read a lot of research that says it's not worth a damn. I'm wasted right now after a 2200 Kilo in 3.5 weeks (alot when you're also spending 5 hours in the gym a week) and am looking to fininsh the next week and .5 up strong then take a break. I've been on that endurox excel stuff, which is supposed to help recovery according to Burke's "Optimal Muscle Recovery" and I drink R4 during and after every ride. Anyow, what my question is... Does B-12 actually do anything? I do it in the summer on tuesdays during back to back racing, but I'm never really sure if it does anything.

thanks,

Rolf
 
I use Endurox R4 after rides and like it. Ed Burke is the shit. I edited this post. I tried that Endurox tablet stuff and didn't notice anything-I might try it again.

B12-I take to sublingual liquid and like it. I think it helps. I am going to find some inj B12 and use it if I can. B12 helps in number of ways. Most vitamins don't exert a major effect on performance; they just facilitate better performance-EPO is like adding turbo to your car and vit sups are like putting in good fuel and cleaning the engine, getting a tune up. With EPO and a shitty engine you'll definitely be fast-vit sups clean up the shitty engine and make it run much better. Anyway B12, E, C, some Fe are key for endurance athletes.

FHG
 
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Powerlung

Do any endurance people have experience with the respiration trainning devices like 'Powerlung'?
 
Re: Powerlung

Jacob Creutzfeldt said:
Do any endurance people have experience with the respiration trainning devices like 'Powerlung'?

I've thought about trying one, but it's awful expensive. Maybe just try breathing thru a straw?!?!?

FHG
 
Unfortunately a straw doesn't provide progressive resistance. Can this device increase tidal volume?
 
Endurox Tablets

Hey FHG,
I did those Endurox tablets last Spring and they do do something. I started the season really strong and lean and I'm assuming that the endurox had something to do with it. Not until recently have I tried the Endurox R4, but it definetly works, but it's best taken after each workout and with accelerade(during wrktout), which i got last week. Keep in mind that the R4 has that ciwujiwa stuff in it. Another thing I want to try is the new "Distance" by GNC's properformance line. it has ribose in it, but not that much(rec. dosage i think is like 3+grams and it only has 650 mg's a serving)(one serving is 3 scoops and there are 8 servings in a container.) other than that it was pretty much the same as R4.

Btw, the guy who got a hold of the tren quit it two days in.... He's now on 200mg/week*5 of Norma's Deca with 15mg's of Dbol on days he works out. Not the most scientific of cycles,but i'm sure he'll make money this spring.

Rolf
 
He takes the dinabol just on the days he works out? I have some dinabols laying around and I have been wondering if that will work. I was thinking of taking one on a race day or for an intense work out day. What will the advantages of this be?
 
Is there an ecconomical device that can measure tidal volume or inhalation/exhalation velocity? There must be something hand held for athsmatics or people suffering from lung disease.
 
Dianabol

You are best off taking the dianabol over a consistent period of time to maximize red blood cell production. I do not know when this factor hits a peak. Does anyone else know?
 
dianabol

i'm no pharmacologist, but thinking about it.... the .5 life of Dianabol is 4 hours or something like that. if he took 60mg, i guess tlevels would spike and he'd gain benefits for only 2.5 hours... This is while cortisol and creatine ?ase is attacking the muscles.... How would the cortisol react with the spike in testlevel (besides a confused adrenal cortex)? I know from a friend who has biology that anything that ends in -ase is in charge of breaking down something... the creatine we ingest is creatine phosphate, elevated levels of creatine ?-ase are fond in a taxed muscle in LT tests and post workout.

Rolf
 
b12 injectable

You can get b12 injectable at the drug store in Canada. No prescritption needed. What a country. When I'm in Canada I buy a bunch. The b12 seems to keep my energy levels up. But beware after an injection of 1000mgs or more within 8 hours you'll be ravenously hungry. I've given injections to my girlfriend and the same is true for her to. If your on EQ and take an injection look out.

I've thought of trying dbol for it's rbc boosting properties. Is it possible to keep your weight down with arimedex and not balloon up. I used test propionate with nolvadex and I still gained weight.

I can't wait till the winter is over.
 
Re: b12 injectable

road kill said:
You can get b12 injectable at the drug store in Canada. No prescritption needed. What a country. When I'm in Canada I buy a bunch. The b12 seems to keep my energy levels up. But beware after an injection of 1000mgs or more within 8 hours you'll be ravenously hungry. I've given injections to my girlfriend and the same is true for her to. If your on EQ and take an injection look out.

I've thought of trying dbol for it's rbc boosting properties. Is it possible to keep your weight down with arimedex and not balloon up. I used test propionate with nolvadex and I still gained weight.

I can't wait till the winter is over.

So how often do you take the B12 inj? ED/EOD? Do you take it in the morning or evenings? Should I take it the morning before races? If I do a 5 day race should I take it everyday? Do you inj subcutaneously or intramuscularly? I've heard you can use a slin needle and do it under the skin.

Can you buy some and ship it to me/

FHG
 
b12 injection days

everyone I know does 2-5 cc's on tuesdays if they're racing every saturday and sunday....

What gauge needle would you use for Deca? for VB12 you'd use like a 26 or 28 gauge.

ciao,

Rolf
 
F'n thread rocks!!!

road kill- gonna do a 4 week bridge- low dose dbal first thing in the mporning w/ .25mg arimidex ED.

jacob- I belive in the powerlung. Been using it for 6 months. Builds your respitory muscles.

I like 1 shot 1,000mcgs of b12 once a week. boosts rbc's.

ciwuja extract in endurox is just siberian ginseng. I like the endurox drink!

still on my recovery cycle, did 4 weeks hcg W/ nolva and now on cyclofenil w/ nolva. horny & happy. oh with a little gh 2i.u's a day. :) how could i forget that, trying to figure if gh is good or not gained muscle tho, tryinhg to get down to 170-175, 183 an lookin NOT like a cyclist

You guys here about the next generation EPO, drug called NESP? do a search with cycling & nesp

peace "whats up with you guys"?
 
You shoot the b12 intramuscular in your glutes just like juice. 1000mcgs a week is what I do as well. I don't live close enough to Canada to go and by some for ya bro. You can probally get it from overseas pharmacies. I've seen a lot on sources lists. Last year I tried EQ and liked it but it made me hungry as hell and I put on weight. Didn't use arimedex. Hmm. Does anavar give you much of a RBC boost?

I've heard of nesp, hemasist, etc. I can only imagaine how much $ that stuff is. Ouch.
 
endurance athletes gotta use anti-e's when juicin! extra estrogen floatin around helps build muscle!

Look online for b-12 plenty of vet places sell it with no script!

just saw online, amgen(maker of EPO) has a bicycle racing team! no lie, cyclists that also work for the co. started the team! how could they race wearin that , they must get joked on all day long
 
Triguy-
I saw Amgen had a cycling team too. That killed me!! Funny that none of them are any good-maybe they need to raid the company pharmacy!Aranesp is basically EPO that you only need to do once a month. It is just as expensive. I wish I could get my doc to prescribe it as my HMO is awesome and I'd only have to pay $10 for it. Sometimes managed care is cool.

FHG
 
animal B12

Hey all,
the dose on 1 mL of a 100 mL bottle says....

Thiamine HCl 100 mg
Riboflavin 5' phosphate sodium 5 mg (5' ?what is this?????)
Niacinamide 100 mg
d-panthenol 10 mg
Cyanocobalamin (cobalt maybe?) 4.0 ppm
Benzyl Alchohol 1.5%
Citric Acid 5 mg (why's this in here????)
Water q.s.

The old stuff I had i don't remeber having so much stuff in it, I ordered this one from a "pharm-meds" and on the front it says "for animal use only". It''s safe right? I'm not dead yet at least....


Ciao,

Rolf
 
Riboflavin is B5. Citric acid is Vit.C thats a super small amount though. Cyanocobalamin is B12. Why don't you E-mail me.
 
You can either do it IM or IV. IV would be better for shorter races IM for longer. Its better than oral because it won't upset your gut. Its pretty cheap as well.
 
cycle

What do guys think about this cycle I am a cat 1 and just want an overall bust in performance.
100mg winni/week
20mg anavar/day

What could I add to this any ideas:confused:
 
Re: cycle

BadMoFo24 said:
What do guys think about this cycle I am a cat 1 and just want an overall bust in performance.
100mg winni/week
20mg anavar/day

This looks good. I've heard winny isn't that great though. Anavar is the shit-clears the system quick and produces strength not size or sides. I think you might want some clomid post cycle w/anavar. Couldn't hurt at least-it's cheap. Post cycle crashing sucks bad. 8 weeks should be good length. Train your ass off on cycle though-otherwise its a waste. I know this is an obvious point, but sometimes guys forget steroids are for training and recovery. Amphetamines are for racing.

What could I add to this any ideas:confused:
Duh-EPO.

So are you looking forward to Nationals in TN-it is going to be hot as hell. Hilly too, but not as bad a Redding-I hope.

FHG
 
Dude i love the heat I am from the south so i am used to it.This weather really sucks ass now every day it like 40's and windy as fuck:cold:
 
???

Hey,

A team-mate of mine is on 15mg Dbol ED and 300 mg Deca for five weeks. He started two weeks ago this past mon., it's like his 4th or 3rd cycle ever, He's like 28. He's a 2, but he pretty much sucks. We all had noticed he was getting fat(i think he said 16%),and I asked what was up and he told me about his new cycle and everything. We start racing next weekend, and he's a fat ass. I told him tough luck while he was on cycle, mainly because i thought your body needed as much as it could get while you're on AAS. Could he be eating too much or will water retension also increase body fat to a certain extent? He's normally around 11%. I asked if he's planned on doing a post-cycle clomid clean-up, he said "no" because 300 mg's of deca was "nothing"... I said, "whatever..." Wouldn't clomid in itself combat body fat? He does the coffee thing to help him lose weight, but i guess with as much as he eats it's not helping him.


Ciao,


Rolfo
 
Re: ???

rolfaldag said:
Hey,

A team-mate of mine is on 15mg Dbol ED and 300 mg Deca for five weeks. He started two weeks ago this past mon., it's like his 4th or 3rd cycle ever, He's like 28. He's a 2, but he pretty much sucks. We all had noticed he was getting fat(i think he said 16%),and I asked what was up and he told me about his new cycle and everything. We start racing next weekend, and he's a fat ass. I told him tough luck while he was on cycle, mainly because i thought your body needed as much as it could get while you're on AAS. Could he be eating too much or will water retension also increase body fat to a certain extent? He's normally around 11%. I asked if he's planned on doing a post-cycle clomid clean-up, he said "no" because 300 mg's of deca was "nothing"... I said, "whatever..." Wouldn't clomid in itself combat body fat? He does the coffee thing to help him lose weight, but i guess with as much as he eats it's not helping him.


Ciao,


Rolfo

Dude this is why I kept saying DBol bad for bike racers. I know you aren't taking it, but look at your buddy. DBol will make you fat. IMO endurance athletes should approach any AAS/drug cycle as a 'cutting' cycle with the aim to aid recovery, increase lean mass slightly-add just a little muscle, and cut fat.

When 'on' you should be watching calories and employing tactics that will allow you to stay lean. The reason endurance athletes use AAS is to facilitate growth and recovery in a non-growth environment. Hard cycling is catabolic and the training/nutrition tactics most good cyclists (specifically the pros) use are not designed to add or even maintain lean body mass. That's why guys use AAS-they need to stay lean but also they need to maintain the muscle mass they have or even add some (like a pound or two). Anavar is a good drug for this. If your gonna do it; do it right.

The holy grail of cycling is a high power-weight ratio. You need to work both ends of that equation: increase power and cut weight.

He is eating too much. I am usually 500 cals short everyday (cals in vs. cals out). Many guys when they do it right report they cut fat and gain a few lbs of muscle.

My suggestions for endurance athletes:
1) use 'low yield' anabolics like anavar-you are looking for quality not quantity-you want strong legs not big legs
2) Diet. Don't eat everything in sight-that's what BB'ers do to gain mass. Eat 60-carb/25-pro/15-fat. Eat good too. Don't snack all the time and think to yourself 'oh I'm taking XXX and training hard I can eat like shit'-always eat good. And time the meals right too-I could do a whole new thread on this.
3) Ride your ass off-if you are 'on' and not training hard then you are wasting good drugs. You take the stuff to train harder longer faster not easier shorter slower. Hard training will keep you lean and mean.

IMO your buddy was being lazy and not training a lot and taking the DBol to cut corners which eplains why he sucks. Don't use that shit to be lazy and cut corners and be able to train less. You want to use that stuff to be able to train more! Learn from his mistakes.

FHG
 
Last edited:
Re: ???

rolfaldag said:
He does the coffee thing to help him lose weight, but i guess with as much as he eats it's not helping him.

Ciao,

Rolfo

What's the coffee thing? I always get lattes and I know if have alot and I back off the mileage, I get chubby. If he's always getting lattes or mochas well...they have like 300cals.

FHG
 
coffee diet

If you don't drink coffee on a regular basis, it may work for you. It is working for me right now, but i just take 3 bags of tea in some hot water for breakfast and a bagel or a small bowl of cereal. The caffeine raises your metabolism. If you're going to do coffee, don't put anything in it that's fatening. It's like taking a wole bunch of adderall or ephedrine or something. I'm @ 12 %, losing slowly, but it will come off.

ROlf
 
cool

New Wonder Drug Darbepoetin Behind Olympic Scandal
Reuters
Feb 24 2002 7:19PM

SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) - Darbepoetin, the blood-boosting drug
behind the biggest drugs scandal to hit the Winter Olympics, is estimated
by Australian scientists to be 10 times as powerful as EPO
(erythropoietin).

Three cross-country skiers, including Spain's triple gold medallist Johan
Muehlegg and record-equalling Russian Larisa Lazutina, were expelled
from the Games on Sunday after testing positive in out-of-competition
tests.

According to scientists at the Australian Sports Drugs Agency,
darbepoetin is cheaper than EPO and easily bought on the internet.

The drug, which stimulates the growth of oxygen-carrying red blood cells,
is used to help fight anemia in cancer and kidney disease patients.

Don Catlin, head of the International Olympic Committee doping
laboratory in Salt Lake City, said darbepoetin could help performance in
endurance sports.

"It may also be harmful for the athlete's health because it increases the
viscosity of the blood. It is a substance which can be easily differentiated
from EPO," he said.

"It is an artificial substance which is not produced naturally by the human
body. Therefore its presence in the urine can only have an exogenous
source."

EPO was the drug at the center of the 1998 Tour de France scandal when
several teams walked out of the race after police raids on their hotels.

A combined blood-and-urine test for EPO was introduced at the 2000
Sydney Olympics.
 
why dont these guys test themselves an see if they would pass or not! test cant cost that much, not as much as losing a gold medal & your rep!!!!!!!

who works with these guys & drugs? themselves,dr's,EF? lololol
 
Is Clen safe to be taking while racing? I'm at the point now where further dieting makes me lose power and what little muscle I've got. I've been eating around 2200 Kcal/day now since december 28th. I'm at somewhere b/t 11 and 12%, but I'm noticing I steady decline in my performance, especially after I just took a rest week and then I got sick. But overall performance is off the charts compared to last year. I have never been this low this early in the season, and I know I will get a little lower and lose a good bit of muscle once the heat kicks in. Anyhow, since I figured you all might ask that, I won't have a heart attack while racing will I? I was thinking I would just buy a bunch of clen, and just start with one, then keep going until I run out and increase my dose as I go. I'm on Anti-depressants, and that messes with me I think, plus on days I need to really study I pop an Adderall (20 mg) (amphetamine- best shit in the world) I don't think it would be really wise to be on clen too.

Also, I had my blood tested in Jan. before I started adding two more days of intensity and I noticed that my HCT was 44.5% when it's usually around 48% (or at least it was last time I had it tested in August of last year) and it was 47% last June when I was really sick.... What does this mean? Also, my Albumin levels where high again (i wasn't on anything when I was tested). Should I be concerned ?


Racing starts this weekend here for us.... Goodluck all


Thanks,

Rolf
 
Rolf - If you just had the flu I believe your white blood cell count would surge and red blood cell count would fall resulting in a lower hematocrit. I would imagine it will go back up in the next few weeks. Take the injectable b12 (I seem to remember you buying some in another post) and an iron supplement. Good luck.
 
Clen is what Abdu tested positive for so it must work ok for some. Normally it will increase cramping and reduce endurance by reducing the glcogen uptake of the muscle. Only way to know for sure is to try it.
You've been on a 2200cal diet for three months and your 12%bf? Do you get tested or are you guessing.
If your feeling weaker as you train more maybe you should hit a bit of juice for recovery. IGF-1 and or HGH will help too on a low cal diet.
 
Hi all - I am a new member here, 49 years old. Always been somewhat of an endurance athlete. I started distance running in high school (1970). I went through some good racing years since I turned 40, but now it is getting tougher to come back from minor injuries, or just basically recover from training.
A good friend took up triathalons and is doing great in them & also the crosstraining has made him stronger.
I know I need to invest the time to crosstrain now in order to stay on the roads. I would also consider using a mild AS as a recovery aid, but I am concerned about the means of acquiring them.
 
stooper- deca with an anti-estroge& proviron.

Rolfadog- hematocrit can change drastically by your body's hydration. I hope your not on a constant diet? Keep on a maintenance diet. clen 2 weeks on then 2 weeks off- weeks off use ephed,caffeine,aspirin,yohimbe. Or you could do clen 3 months starting with one tab and adding one every two weeks.

also in a fatigue, sick state your body might produce less rbc's. IMO. If worried about drug interaction theres places online that can tell ya
 
another one bites the dust

VDB caught with clen, morphine and epo. Seems once you've strapped on the epo engine to yourself you just can't ride without it. I can't believe the carelessness of these athletes. Muehlegg at the Olympics now VDB. Most people on this site are probally more careful with their "supplements" than these guys who are in the glare of the media spotlight.
 
Stooper, your 49 yrs. old the perfect combo for you would be HGH and some testosterone. For replacement more that anything. Test is so much better that deca and winny.
 
Re: another one bites the dust

road kill said:
VDB caught with clen, morphine and epo. Seems once you've strapped on the epo engine to yourself you just can't ride without it. I can't believe the carelessness of these athletes. Muehlegg at the Olympics now VDB. Most people on this site are probally more careful with their "supplements" than these guys who are in the glare of the media spotlight.

The kicker isn't the EPO-he's been doing that for years-it's the MORPHINE!! Fuck, can you imagine! Rumor from my Belgian homies is the VDB is a raging drug addict/alcoholic. He has been out of the racing scene going thru recovery and trying to get back on the wagon.Guess that didn't work. Morphine...that's nasty shit. Super addictive-guarantee that was for recreational use!

FHG
 
yeah hgh & test would be good! just make sure you get some arimidex! you want to suppress estorgen as much as possible, so not to gain muscle



WHO'S VDB?
 
triguy said:
WHO'S VDB?

Frank Vandenbrouke-heir appaerent to the throne of Belgian cycling-He is very troubled however. He was a huge star young and then dropped out of racing for 18 months for mental health reasons/drug addiction. Has been linked to doping before, but nothing was ever proven. See ya Frank.

Triguy-I guess they are having races at Camp Pendleton. I think they have on Saturday. They also have a website up now for Camp Pendelton Racing.

FHG
 
Hey Triguy what are you basing that on? Are you saying estrogen is responsible for muscle growth? And you don't need arimidex unless your doing more that 500mg per week.
 
VDB

Watch any race with VDB in it where he was on decent form, and I guarantee it will be one of the best races you will ever see. I.e. two years ago in the vuelta, if it weren't for him, that race would have just been pretty boring. Any spring classic in 1998-99 where he appeared, including roubaix one year. The dude is cycling's saviour as far as I'm concerned, he just needs to hire himself the equivalent to a CPA to take care of all his dope. That's what Armstrong has in Ferarri.

anyhow, fuck armstrong, VDB is da man. Watch the stage in the vuelta (like 2nd from last, maybe, when he was on damn good form) where he gets into a break with some spanish dudes and crushes them with this disgusting attack up a cobbled climb at like 50 kph. AMAZING is all i can say for that. The crowd was wild and all of cycling's jaw dropped as he ripped the legs off of just about everyone in the following days in the big mtns(got the best of ullrich and Jimenez at their best) and even a TT. VDB could truly win any race he wanted. And we know dope alone doesn't win races.

Re: my BF%. I have a Tanita scale I got on sale @ walmart last year for 39.99. It seems to be really accurate. I'm not getting sucked up in the face yet, so I guess I need to do something. I've remained pretty consistent with this diet, but I've gotten sick thrice now, and I ate a lot when I was sick. It's kinda getting old. I would take more addy, but when my resting hr is over 90, I'm not too keen on it.

Thanks,

Rolf
 
clen

Hey could someone(one of you all, not anyone else) email me a good, reliable source for some clen or someting of that nature.

Thanks,
Rolf
 
Thanks to everybody for their suggestions and advice. I am glad I found this board; there is so much good info here. Good luck to everyone w/ your training programs.
 
rolfadog- resting hr of 90!!!!!! your scarin me bro. do you medically need the adderall? you have a guy(medical degree & knows his shit) or a DR. that you can confide in on all the goodies you do? I got one, you gotta have one.

idanimal- just a theory I have, i think estrogen is a major player in the muscle growth equation. Ill ask a "mod" an see what they think. Block estrogen limit muscle growth, but you want to use heavy androgens for their recuperative abilities.


"cough,cough" a "friend" just started A50 & arimidex. Arimidex is awesome as a anti-estrogen!!!!!!!!!!! ill post you his hematocrit,hemoglobin,reticulyctes in a couple weeks. he is also using a hypoxic tent.

Im not doing the pendleton race, just got a cervelo p3 (wanna see how far i can go in Time trials) and gonna spend the weekend toyin with it.
 
Triguy -
I agree with you about the androgens as you know! I used test prop last year and I loved it. However even with nolvadex I gained too much muscle. People kept asking me if I was lifting> I wasn't. My chest and arms got much bigger and I wasn't doing anything except racing my bike. The racing season was coming to a close so I wasn't worried so much about the weight gain. I've since shrunk back down to my usual size. Lost 2 1/2 pant sizes in a couple months. I was also thinking of using anadrol with some arimedex for its erythropoeisis properties with relative inexpensiveness compared to say something like EPO. I've use EQ before at a low dose but thoght A50 would even be better if you could keep the weight off. Is your friend able to keep his weight completely normal with the arimedex. How much A50 is he using a day.

Aldag -

I have a tough time losing weight with a normal high carb cyclist diet but when I cut back the carbs and up the protein and fat(flax oil, almond butter, peanut butter, olive oil) keeping my overall calories low the weight comes off very easy with very little cravings. I eat 5 times a day but my servings are small. To speed up the weight loss process you can take a spoonful of almond butter or capful of flax seed oil and start riding in the morning with that only in your stomach. Bring along some food if it's a ride over 2 hours so you don't bonk. This works well! When you get home don't gorge yourself but keep eating small. Eg. Toast with peanut butter or almond butter, 3 egg white omellete with 1 whole egg. Throw some salsa on the omelette - the hot/spicy will make you feel full as will the peanut butter. Drink lots of water!! You will get your BF% down to 7% I guarantee it and you will keep you strength and muscle. Get some whey protein isolate (concentrate sucks) and use it with water throw in a carb and fat and you have a meal. Not pretty but it works. I don't think clen is that good for bike racing personally. I used it last year and was not impressed. There are studies which show it stops your body from replacing ATP (check out mesoRx for article) which is not a good thing for an endurance athlete. Which may be why your feeling weak on the bike.

Man I wish Elite would give us our own category!
 
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HELP

Allright guys, I need some help. I am an endurance athlete and I want someone to recommend a good cycle for me using this stuff: 200 tabs winny, 133 dbol, ALA, cranberry juice and some joint lube. Just make it cut and dry.

Stats: 5'9"
155 lbs, 23
6-7% BF

What would be the best way to utilize these?

Grams per day?

Stack or 2 cycles?

Time between cycles (even if I stack)?

Anti Es? During cycle or just after?

Anything else I might need?

Thanks. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. I want to be as efficient as possible!!
 
What's the doses of the winny tabs ? 2mg zambon or chines 50mg ?
You have to use about 20-25mg ed. 50mg won't be bad if you take the chines, but cut the pill in half and don't take it for more than 6-8 weeks...
for 200 x 2mg pills : you've not enough to do a cycle. Say 16mg ed at least : it's only 25 days. You'll not see anything with this...

dbol : not the right stuff for an endurance athlete IMO, but you can use it for better recovery before and after workouts : 2 x 5mg ed for 6 weeks and see how you react to this.
At these doses , you don't need any anti-e at all...
 
if you could find EVERYTHING you want...

To keep this great thread on...
If you could find and afford anything you want (GH, EPO, AS, others...) what would you take all year long ?
In other words, what would be the "ideal" endurance/athletic performance cycle ?
I've found Willy Voet's book with all the gear taken by Festina team between 1996/99 and it's amazing (EPO's doses for Virenque and Brochard...)...just to see if you'll do the same if you could.
 
Triguy, Anadrol is not estrogenic so taking an anti-e won't do any good. Eq isn't estrogenic either. Also, not all andogens have the same recuperative abilities. Test being the best.
Road kill- genetics plays a big part in gaining muscle some guys just don't gain much if at all on small doses.
 
Thanks Realblaz

Thanks realblaz-

The winny are 5 mg march pharmaceutical tabs. This is the plan:

10 mg winny with breakfast
5 for lunch
5 for late afternoon snack for 50 days

Im gonna hold off one the dbol until summer training.
 
dbol in the summer

dude,
I'd hang off on the dbol until winter weights. The pumps on the bike are bad enough, plus you've got the heat with all the extra water you're already having to drink..... um, who knows how much of a bitch that would be to stay tanked up.

Rolf
 
idanimal-

so what do you think of my theory on endurance athletes keeping their estrogen levels low to keep muscle gain down?

test having the best recuperative abilities (how you know that?) isnt that due to its high androgens?

glad your inputing on our little board.

*also i thought of all AAS i thought dbol would have the best recuperative.

*anadrol should be used w/ winny to keep progesterone down?
 
ID Animal - Stick around, we need some more opinions on this thread. Genetics yeah, I gain very easy. Not great for endurance sports though. Anyone tried albuterol{inhaler, or pills}, I've used clen but it didn't do much in relation to all the side effects (cramping,headaches, jitteriness - made me hungry as well). Funny that 80% of procyclists are proclaimed asthmatics so they can use albuterol legally while racing. Must be something to it.

All I've been using this year so far is some injectable b12 and some iron supplements, and other vitamins. Feel about as good as I did on gear.
 
Phosphate loading

Has anyone ever tried this?

Phosphate (phosphate loading)
Fatigue is related to a decline in muscle pH, which inhibits aerobic and anaerobic energy production. Scientists have theorized that buffering metabolic acids might enhance endurance. The main buffers used by the body are bicarbonate and phosphate salts. These buffers also help maintain hydration.

Phosphate taken at dosages of 0.3 g.kg-1 may improve interval sprinting speed and prolonged endurance. 19 For a 150-pound athlete, this is 20 - 60 grams. Since these dosages can cause nausea, athletes are wise to try experiment with it in training before using it in competition.

Six trained triatheletes participated in a double blind study to evaluate the effects of phosphate loading on performance. They ingested either 4 grams per day of sodium phosphate in four divided doses or placebo for 3 days before performing both maximal cycling tests and a 40-km time trial. They continued the dosages an extra day and redid tests to evaluate recovery. All tests were repeated after a 17-day washout period. Phosphate enhanced cycling endurance and raised aerobic threshold (maximum level of intensity at metabolic efficiency). 20

Considering the low cost of sodium phosphate solution, its lack of side effects and proven efficacy, it is a worthwhile ergogenic for endurance.
 
I've tried phos fuel by twin labs which is available at vitamin stores everywhere. It's one of those small supplements that you may or not notice the difference. The effect wasn't that big enough for me to say that much about it . If your well trained, well rested and you get in a race your motivated for you can often go beyond what you think your capable of. With these factors in mind who can say how much a mild effect supplement like this really was boosting performance. I'd use it again though because it can't hurt and it's fairly cheap. :fro:
 
road kill said:
ID Animal - Stick around, we need some more opinions on this thread. Genetics yeah, I gain very easy. Not great for endurance sports though. Anyone tried albuterol{inhaler, or pills}, I've used clen but it didn't do much in relation to all the side effects (cramping,headaches, jitteriness - made me hungry as well). Funny that 80% of procyclists are proclaimed asthmatics so they can use albuterol legally while racing. Must be something to it.

All I've been using this year so far is some injectable b12 and some iron supplements, and other vitamins. Feel about as good as I did on gear.

I have exercise induced asthma and use an inhaler w/albuterol. I like it-little kick before the race and I can feel my lungs open up too. I only use when doing races or hard rides. It's way different than clen. Clen has nice added benefits like being slightly anabolic (or at least anti-catabolic) and clen helps cut fat. Albuterol just opens up the aveoli.

I've felt awesome this season. I've dialled in the diet and supplements. I feel great in the races and generally feel good all the time. I'll post my supp routine.

FHG
 
Giro supplement list

Marco Pantani: insulin
Jan Ullrich: corticosteroids, stimulants and anaesthetics
Jos* Arrieta, Jon Odriozola & Unai Osa: caffeine
Vicente Belda (Kelme team manager): caffeine and diprophiline
Francisco Javier Fernandez: testosterone, steroids
Alvaro Gonzalez de Galdeano: caffeine
Dario Frigo: steroids
Rodriguez Fuentes: cafferine, diprophiline
Hans De Clercq: caffeine
Jose Galilea: caffeine
Jesus Hoyos: caffeine, corticosteroids
Vicente Navarte Izza: caffeine
Pablo Lastras Garcia: caffeine, corticosteroids
David Lasa: caffeine
David Chica Navas: caffeine
Bruno Olivieri: insulin
Julio Alberto Perez Cuapio: caffeine
Stefano Zanini: insulin

I wonder if the caffeine is injectable or pill form like vivarin.
 
what does that mean "giro supplement list" ? is this what was found on each rider or what was found in their urine? or rumors?
 
Triguy-there is a good discusion about estrogen and muscle building over at my board.
Sexton-you really should try potasium citrate for lactic acid buffering. The main advantage is that it doesn't upset your stomach and actually works very well, also very cheap but tastes horrible.
 
triguy - These are the drugs found in their rooms when the heat came down at last years Giro d'Italia.
 
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road kill said:
Giro supplement list

Marco Pantani: insulin
Jan Ullrich: corticosteroids, stimulants and anaesthetics
Jos* Arrieta, Jon Odriozola & Unai Osa: caffeine
Vicente Belda (Kelme team manager): caffeine and diprophiline
Francisco Javier Fernandez: testosterone, steroids
Alvaro Gonzalez de Galdeano: caffeine
Dario Frigo: steroids
Rodriguez Fuentes: cafferine, diprophiline
Hans De Clercq: caffeine
Jose Galilea: caffeine
Jesus Hoyos: caffeine, corticosteroids
Vicente Navarte Izza: caffeine
Pablo Lastras Garcia: caffeine, corticosteroids
David Lasa: caffeine
David Chica Navas: caffeine
Bruno Olivieri: insulin
Julio Alberto Perez Cuapio: caffeine
Stefano Zanini: insulin

I wonder if the caffeine is injectable or pill form like vivarin.

Caffeine could also be suppositories-that's right anal administration of caffeine. The rectum has tons of blood vessels and is a good place for certain substances to be absorbed (insert gay semen joke here).

Frigo actually had some type of topical andro creme or spray. He said he never used it (or the RSR-13 he had too!!)-he just had it for 'insurance' in case he needed to juice to win the Giro. Remember he was close to winning the Giro when busted-I think he was second.

FHG

Oh yeah if it says insulin next to their name they were probably using HGH also. The 2 substances tend to be cycled together.
 
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Found out last night you can buy slin OTC in CA. I asked the pharmacist at the grocery store. They said Humilin-R was available w/o prescription. However you need a script for the pins! But you can get those from your local needle exchange.

FHG
 
IDANIMAL- give me your opionin on a base training cycle for my greyhound.

also a peak cycle also, or competition cycle whichever you call it.
 
The major factor is are you tested or not, your age, sport(assuming triathlete), have you done a cycle before, propensity to gain weight. There are alot of factors.
 
pins aren't OTC?

pins aren't otc? They are here in NC, i think. I can buy them at least. They have asked me what I need them for and I've always said "school". and they take my DL# down.

I wish we could get a copy of everyone who tested pos. for EPO from the new EPO test.

LA buffering: try the phytic acid too. It's relatively cheap and you get 40 tabs. It has yet to upset my stomach.

Saw a cool thing on another board today. You can take Yohimbee (the topical kind) and mix it with Fina and its carrying agent will bring it past the skin. It might be DMSO, but everyone said it had a minty smell, so it could be menthol/alchohol. Speaking of DMSO, I tore something in my chest throwing a medicine ball and I put some aspercreme on there the otd and it took about 5 min. and it felt pretty good. I'd give a shot. Also, if you have access to a compounding Rx, you can get some DMSO and mix it with all sorts of stuff. Ketoprofen, por ejemplo, is some damn good stuff when admin'd topically. It has been proven to penetrate into the synovial fluid if applied topically. That would make a cool thing to schlopp on your legs when it's cold out or for a rub-down if you mix it with other cool stuff.

Be cool,

ROlf
 
of some interest, from cyclingnews.com

Failure of cycling press
The final scandal of the Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City involving cross country skiers and the use of the drug darbepoetin illuminates the facade of reporting currently practiced in the cycling world. Headlines in VeloNews, Cyclingnews, and other cycling periodicals blare that the trial of Dr. Michele Ferrari is an attempt for "cycling to come clean" - what a joke. The fact is that the "big drug" that is being discussed at the trial and in the cycling press, EPO, only confirms that the cycling federations, and more importantly, the cycling press is not interested in really exposing the doping that is going on in the peloton.

The use of EPO in cycling is at least a decade and a half old - have no other drugs with performance enhancing attributes been developed by pharmaceutical companies? The cycling press would have us believe so, yet, we have to hear about dabepoetin from NBC or CNN, the most generic of news sources, instead of the specialist cycling reporters and editors that our subscription and advertising dollars are paying for.

It's easy to sympathize with the cycling press, however, because doping is bad for the industry that they are dependent upon so they, like the team sponsors, turn a blind eye to doping until someone gets caught. This strategy unfortunately will result in a cycling fan base that will turn away from racing and towards the mellower, recreational aspects of cycling. At a time when cycling is poised to take on a higher level of visibility in areas outside of Europe, the upcoming reports of fraud and scandal could disastrously set cycling back another 20 years.

It is interesting to note that even when the cycling press reports about that old stablehorse, EPO, not too many questions are asked. The new EPO testing procedures were calmly accepted by the press as a "major step towards cleaning up the sport" with very little follow up. The questions that should have been asked are: how does the test detect EPO? [through detection of chemical tags inserted in the EPO] What if there were no chemical tags in the EPO?

Rumors have reached even the navel-gazing United States that there are chemical tag-free batches of EPO available from sources in Eastern Europe, thus nullifying the new EPO test. There have been rumors of other drugs like darbepoetin for years, but none of these drugs are mentioned or investigated by the press to any visible degree. Is the cycling press telling us that they have no friends in the peleton that they can talk to about these allegations? What about the recently retired riders who are pursuing careers outside of cycling? What about the American cyclists who are literally infiltrating the peleton in increasing numbers? Can we find no one to talk even anonymously about their new experiences and the new pressures that they must be under, to take the injections or get out of the race? Are idolized riders only "technically" telling the truth: "I don't dope" meaning "I don't take anything that's _currently_ on the banned list".

Until the cycling press starts asking these hard questions and getting some real answers, we can only be so enthusiastic about reading the race reports - there are too many questions in the back of everyone's mind.

Tom Lewis
Monday, February 25, 2002

Respond to this letter

Cyclingnews editor Jeff Jones replies

Cyclingnews has always reported on illegal drug use in the peloton. You may remember the Festina scandal in 1998? We had the most detailed and up to date reports on the web. Since then we have continued to report on new drugs and drug tests, and there is no pressure from advertisers not to, although some readers complain that it's interfering with the cycling coverage. I don't think you can describe us as "not interested".

I have always criticised the French EPO urine test, as it only has a 3 day window, whereas the effects of EPO lasts for weeks. The criticism started in 1999/2000 when the test was developed for use in the Olympics. I'll leave it up to you read through the articles via our archives http://www.cyclingnews.com/archives.html and search tool (google.com works quite well for that).

Explanations of how the test works are given on more than one occasion. The EPO test relies on the fact that there are slight differences between artificial and natural EPO, although there is no specific chemical tag inserted into artificial EPO to make it detectable. Other parameters in : the person's blood profile also change when the balance is upset, and blood tests are used by the UCI to confirm an EPO suspect.

EPO may not even the drug of choice any more, but a number of people tested positive for it last year. People still test positive for steroids too.

As for NESP, two examples last year (scroll down the page a bit):

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/oct01/oct10news.php http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/nov01/nov13news.php

There was also a debate about it in the cyclingnews letters page last year.

NESP may be a more powerful drug than EPO, but it is purely artificial and has a half life three times as long, so it is easier to detect.

Finally, yes there are plenty of rumours about the drugs going around in the peloton. To print whatever we hear would be rather irresponsible.
 
I am really starting to believe by the time the cycling press prints what the peloton uses its already 3 years old.
 
WHAT YOU GUYS THINK OF THIS??????

There could be a way to carry more oxygenated blood without any more rbc's or hemoglobin. Plasma also carries o2, and comes in a nice little package (lol). It carries no where near the amount of 02 hemog carries but will clearly aid gas exchange. The hematorit cant see this stuff. As i remember the amount of o2 carried in the blood went something like this. (1.34xhemog#)saturated hemoglobin+plasma levels 1.34 represents how much o2 the hemo can hold, while a h/h is needed to get the total hemoglobin within the body, the pulse oximeter gives you the saturated hemoglobin percentage. If I cycled this is how I would try to get an advantage over my opponents. Get an ABG done this is easy the whole process takes less than 5 mins. After recieving my hemoglobin levels I would compare mine to what the legal limits are and add some as desired. This would take some time and probably a considerable amount of ABG's to get used to proper dosages. After this I would bombard myself with plasma,and load up on topical bronchial dialators prerace. Topical beta2's are not absorbed systemically as easily as the oral drugs in its class. This would work in two ways. One allow you to get a larger dosage thus increasing bronchialdilation and secondly increase your chances of beating the drug test after your win! When you see RT's giving supplemental 02 out on the football feild they are in no way aiding the athlete's hemoglobin in carrying more 02. Athletes are much to efficient for that. Their pulseox saturation levels even when out of breathe are at 99%. Its the plasma thats being altered and they do say it helps.

topical bronchodilators?
 
Re: WHAT YOU GUYS THINK OF THIS??????

triguy said:
There could be a way to carry more oxygenated blood without any more rbc's or hemoglobin...ABG's to get used to proper dosages...topical bronchodilators?

Dude what are ABGs?

I don't think topical bronchiodialtors will work. Just get a prescription for an inhaler. If you have a prescription they're legal.

FHG
 
FHG -

I saw you had posted on another thread about supplemnting with ALA. How are you using this and what results have you seen. I was thinking of trying this after races with my recovery drink. Thought it might work a little like insulin. Am I wrong?

This thread has been dieing lately. Where is everyone???
 
albuterol

Hey fhg,

I scored some Albuterol. I was out-of-town visiting my momma and I hurt my chest throwing a med. ball @ the gym. Then i raced this past weekend and my chest felt like it was collapsing. I took a hit of Albuterol from a friend and it felt a good bit better. Then I went to the ER doc and he Rx'd me 17gm's of the stuff. How long will 17 g's last? Can I get away with only using it at race time?

Thanks,
Rolf


Don't let this thing die!
 
Yo! keep this baby goin!

OK, my dog is gaining way too much weight!

GH 4 i.u.'s 2 x a day
insulin 2 i.u.'s w/ 2nd meal after workout
dbol am 10mgs
1g arimidex

options:
a. cut back on GH
b. drop insulin
c. both
d. what you guys think

my greyhound wants to keepweight the same just use AAS to boost recovery & performance
 
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