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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
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Anti-estrogen

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aries13
  • Start date Start date
Geez... I only asked b.c my BF told me about this so I was CURIOUS!!!!!

OK. Now I NEVER ASKED ABOUT CLOMID!! Nolva yes... so thats why I got confused. I am by no means saying I will jump into using anything--- I was asking b/c Im being told about this .. Right now Im trying to get ALL the ifo I can get about these 'controlled substances' and I thought people here would help. There isnt that much info on these things .. and Im too chicken to do it anyway.

24K- I know what you mean, yea, asking about this makes me look like a giant A$$ but why bash me for just asking?

Im doing a BB show......
 
Aries13 said:
Ok. So my show is in two weeks :worried:

I will most likely do a VERY SPECIFIC detailed water/carb/potassium load and deplete. I will post the details as soon as I get the numbers all worked up. Now, my question is... my boyfriend suggested that I take a very low dose anti-estrogen (nolvadex/armidex) to help me with my water shedding. I said... well let me ask the ladies first before I do anything this serious. I dont know much about this so I was wondering what you ladies think? Also, what dose would I be looking at here? Thanks so much(in advance) :heart:

*Aries

Your a very wise and smart person for asking to get all the information you need to make an informed decision. I am grateful you asked considering I will be in the same boat in November or sometime along the way I am sure, wtih so many things you can do and try concerning your training and diet and with so much information out there and products it is very difficult if you are new to this.
I appreciate the questions, one it means I don't have to ask :) two I will know the answer when stuff like this comes popping my way!
 
Aries13 said:
Geez... I only asked b.c my BF told me about this so I was CURIOUS!!!!!

OK. Now I NEVER ASKED ABOUT CLOMID!! Nolva yes... so thats why I got confused. I am by no means saying I will jump into using anything--- I was asking b/c Im being told about this .. Right now Im trying to get ALL the ifo I can get about these 'controlled substances' and I thought people here would help. There isnt that much info on these things .. and Im too chicken to do it anyway.

24K- I know what you mean, yea, asking about this makes me look like a giant A$$ but why bash me for just asking?

Im doing a BB show......


Understand:


A man stating that you should "do x"....typically it means that he is stating compounds which men have experience with.

Fact is:

In men, Clomid "can be" considered a weak anti-estrogen.

Not so in women...again, its a fertility drug. Now that clomid is out of the way...


Nolvadex - still a poor choice.


Remember - men take test....it produces more estrogen...men bitch and cry like a jilted girl on prom night...men take nolvadex(or better - A-Dex)...men feel more like men. We take it to reduce sides from a SIDE EFFECT from GEAR.


Women take anti-esteros and it kills the natural(one of anyway) hoemone in females ESTROGEN.

So.....anti-esteros will really, pardon my French, fuck up your hormonal balance. Ask any female who has taken them for a contest about the Estrogen Backlash....


NOT GOOD....



I'd rather eat leaded paint chips than be around a female suffering from THAT
 
Aries13 said:
Ok. So my show is in two weeks

I will most likely do a VERY SPECIFIC detailed water/carb/potassium load and deplete. I will post the details as soon as I get the numbers all worked up. Now, my question is... my boyfriend suggested that I take a very low dose anti-estrogen (nolvadex/armidex) to help me with my water shedding. I said... well let me ask the ladies first before I do anything this serious. I dont know much about this so I was wondering what you ladies think? Also, what dose would I be looking at here? Thanks so much(in advance)

Aries13 said:
Geez... I only asked b.c my BF told me about this so I was CURIOUS!!!!!
OK. Now I NEVER ASKED ABOUT CLOMID!! Nolva yes... so thats why I got confused. I am by no means saying I will jump into using anything--- I was asking b/c Im being told about this .. Right now Im trying to get ALL the ifo I can get about these 'controlled substances' and I thought people here would help. There isnt that much info on these things .. and Im too chicken to do it anyway.

24K- I know what you mean, yea, asking about this makes me look like a giant A$$ but why bash me for just asking?
Im doing a BB show......

Hey girl...
Your first post sounded more like a consideration about adding it in (bolded area above). The second post above shows almost like you were back tracking and making it sound more like it was a nonchalant question.
I know you said that you were proabably not going to be where you wanted to be on stage... Have you told your boyfriend this and then he suggested you adding this in? Now you feel a bit more competitive maybe against this friend of yours and as scared as you may be about taking a substance of this sort you were casually considering it to get you that extra step?

The thing is since this is your first test show why not fulfill what your original plan was. You said you were going to strut your stuff and be proud of your transformation. I would keep with that sense... Afterall at this stage of the game any decisions you make for yourself will probably be irrational. This kind of thing should be asked, inquired about, researched way ahead of the game.

Just looking out for a sister!
You're going to do great, no need to do anything extra. If you feel that once you are up on stage and maybe next time around you will want to try something out... then so be it. You have established your baseline at that point. We're all just trying to help you out... NOT trying to cut your head off. I know it's been a lot of hard work and you want it to be perfect, but be perfect with a smile at how far you have come and cherish it!
 
^^^ Aries don't worry ... ask & consider ANYTHING you want... we are here to help you make an educated decision as well as other woman other there with the same question ... :rose:

Good info here.
 
thanks you guys......

I guess in the middle of training,diet,school... the competition... i just got "thrown into" all this. I considered it for a second but I wanted to know extra info about it. He mentioned it b/c I hold a ton of water/fat in my lower body and he said it would get rid of it when I deplete water. Im gonna just shut up now and just stick to what Ive been doing. Stress is starting to get to me right now and I dont want any of that cortisol building up.

Almost done and for next time... it will be easier and I'll make smarter and wiser decisions. :heart:
 
Don't sweat it ---

First I'm going to make a blanket statement that is reality about competition --- once you start talking to people about doing shows, ANYONE who has any experience or even has just heard stuff about competitoin, will start suggesting stuff to help you - anythign from having a stash of an old discontinued ephedra-based thermogenic, to "legal" natural diuretics, so-called 'testosterone boosters" like tribulus to creatines (remember all the controversy about that w/ Mark McGwire???), on up to the controlled stuff including hardcore diuretics, pro-hormones, AAS & fatburners --- when you are deep into competition prep you start to feel like you are at a disadvantage if you are gathering that other competitors will be usign this stuff or that you will never drop enough bodyfat or whatever for your show date & you need some help, and frankly you'll do anything to "be in perfect shape". I challenge ANY competitor to say they have not experienced these feelings at least once.

I also see that it is very hard for people, particularly women, on this board to ask anything about any of these controlled substances w/o catching an earful (see above). I've also seen several girls stop posting because they caught it - which means they most likely found someone else who would answer their questions and not necessarily in a productive manner (most likely saying "SURE I CAN GET YOU THAT... for $xxxxxxx, and then they get fucked up some how.) To that end I don't find it productive to give someone a pile of shit for asking the question. If you don't know what the stuff is, but everyone is tellign you about it, of course you will be curious or at least want to understand where it fits in the big picture because unless you are competing in a truly natural (as if there is such a thing) federation, you will ALWAYS come across some aspect of "performance enhancement". Just like w/ parents who don't want to have the "sex talk" w/ their kids - they'll find out somewhere eventually and it might not be from a good resource.

I'm all about education - esp when there's so much information (and misinformation) available. Just like learning how diet, nutrition & training start, you need to understand the basics and also understand that there's no quickie way to accomplish anythign and your body will ALWAYS be the entity tthat dictates whether or not it will allow you to try to manipulate it with or without some sort of equal & opposite rebound effect. So I encourage the questions, esp when you are starting out because you want to at least know what the context is of some of this stuff, and have enough to at least make a decision that is useful.

In this particular situation, the relevent points are:

- you are 2 weeks out - you don't really have time to experiment w/ anythign new. i wouldn't even suggest throwing in any new type of food that you havent' had in your diet for the last 10 weeks because you dont' even know if that will fuck up your progress. Even less would I mess w/ controlled substances right now. (even moreso given that you are just becoming aware of stuff like anti-e's right now.)

- I don't recall which federation you are competing in - my first 2 shows were tested NPC shows & I was actually part of the random testing in the first one. The second one I'd swear the girl who won the overall was juicing even though she was tested as the winner (probably just a lameo lie detector test - NPC doesn't really fork out the cash for a full-on drug test). But regardless of what you can get away with, I think its shitty sportsmanship to compete in an intended natural show if you aren't natural.

- You did say straight up that you wanted to keep this plan simple & straightforward - which you are doing. Esp for your first show - you need to be patient and consider it an experiment not only just for the experienc of getting up on stage and all that, but to discover how your body responds to the diet & training. You will still see some amazingly dramatic changes in your body over these next few weeks. I personally think if you don't just see what your body will do w/ what you are doing now, you are cheating yourself out of that part of discovering what amazign things your body can accomplish with very basic manipulations. Things like potassium, salt, water, carb depletion are very short term and very simple changes to make. Hormone manipulation is a much different issue - they havent' even figured out how to manage hormone therapy for post-menopausal women in a do-able fashion yet.

And as I said above -- nolva is the most common, how it works for guys has absolutely nothing to do w/ how it works for women, and there's still so much that is not really known about it -- at this point it isnt' somethign that IMO would be a useful expenditure of your time to use. Just more complications to something that is already very stressful and won't stop until after the show.

Speakign of after the show-- as Shadow noted and I've ranted about ad nauseum -- you'll have enough to deal w/ re: post show rebound. Experience that once first w/o adding in the further rebound potential of recovering estrogen.
 
Very well put sassy.. thanks a million.

I shouldve known better than to even consider something like that... just like when my bf signed me up on Elite and before even telling me about diet and training immediately asked how much of anavar or clen I should run. I guess guys have the easier route as far as drugs b/c they dont experience as many problems. And now this nolva stuff he wanted me to take....

well, Ive lost 30lbs in the last 12weeks. Its a good amount... Im still holding on to a good amount of fat and thats why Im worried.

Overall, its been a truly great learning experience. From finding the right diet and macro breakdown, to proper training, to seeing my body change, to cruddy mood swings and painful tiredness.... competing is truly something that cant be done by everyone. The show I am doing is amateur BB and I know for a fact that hardly anyone in it is 'natural'. I dont know if Im natural since Ive been cycling with cardio breeze these past 12 weeks.... ???

As far as anti-e's, thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I already have health issues and problems that I dont know how something like that would play into this whole thing. Like you said, it is getting closer and the competition is FIERCE... aspecially since the 3 other girls who are in the show (yea, there's 4 of us LOL) are using drugs. Im struggling on my own and this idea was just a suggestion to help me shed my lower body-water weight.

Im learning so much about so many things.... Never in a million years would I have thought this process would be like this.

Again, thanks to everyone who helped me out.
 
I think EVERYONE needs to take the time to read Sassy's post.. brilliant .. really ...

Aries ... with supplement use ... consider yourself Nutraceutical not 'Pharma'ceutical ... You are not unnatural in any way, NOR should you discredit yourself b/c you take Cardio Breeze :rose:
 
I wouldn't slam myself -- like I said - I challenge any competitor who hasn't been around the biz for a while to NOT hear about whatever & start to wonder. But just like diet & training - there are some basic rules of thumb that will keep you out of trouble. And there is ALWAYS another show. The whole competitoin thing is not just a one-shot deal. Its an evolution just like everythign else. You are competing against yourself. NO ONE ever comes into any one show on the same level as the other competitors. Ever. Its too much of an individual sport to expect that. So pay attention to what YOUR goals are and where YOU are coming from. No one else cares where you came from on stage - its just who looks the most like whatever they are looking for at that particular moment of the day. But for you, its your first chance to get some feedback on what you've accomplished and what you were born with. I think sometimes we forget this stuff -- esp when we sit in the audience (or even on stage) and compare ourselves.

I've now had 2 experiences that help me keep in mind what competition means for those who are just getting into it -- it is truly differnet if you are looking to get a pro card in women's BB, but for someone just looking to take a shot and see if they like it, or to vaildate a goal achieved ---

1) Go watch the NPC Wheelchair Nationals or Wheelchair USAs. Then try to complain about how much you hate cardio when some guy in a wheelchair w/ a spinal chord injury can get down to 4% bf.

2) At hoteacher's show in KY -- there was a guy who came out w/ a walker. I'm afraid I can't remember what he'd been battling, but he came out there, got a standing ovation and pretty much everyone around me, including me, the judges and probably half the competitors were tearing up while this guy got out there & did his routine.

So stay really focused on what you are tryign to accomplish. Sometimes you need to look a little deeper than "my ass is fatter than hers" and more like - "fuck you, i'm goddamn hot and you know it! and you know I'm a better person for surviving it and i'll be even better next time, if I decide to . let's see you get on stage and do this ya little fucker!"

:)

And just like everyone has a place they came from to get on stage, you also have to deal w/ how your body will like you when you are done forcing it thru the competition prep. You want to be able to come out of the prep easily too and not spend the next 6 months suffering from a nasty rebound -- that's a mental & physical challenge all it itself.
 
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