Another Single Factor 5x5 Journal

[Guinness5.0]

I really like the idea of doing triples for a while actually. I'm just wondering how I'd set it up and whether to include back off sets. I could just do it like a DF intensity phase. Combinations of 3x3 and 1x3 like this:

Mon: squat 3x3, bench and row 1x3
Wed: light squats, dead and mil press 3x3, pullups 3x8
Fri: squat 1x3, bench and row 3x3

and try to increase the weight each week on each (1x3 and 3x3 independently).

That IS a deload, no matter how you slice it. I'm not saying that's bad (or good); just calling a spade a spade.

I wonder if you'd want to increase volume in order to keep the workload similar while doing triples, or if you'd just deload and hammer the triples for now.

I LOVE that you're at this point A-B: kinda climactic to see where you go from here. I may have to hit up the store for some popcorn.

 

[blut wump]

That should be fun.

The DF intensity phase, of course, aims for hitting maxes withing three weeks which needn't be your goal. You can keep the straight single factor approach running until you begin to stall. Just keep alert for signs of loading and general wear and tear.

 

[Madcow2]

I wonder how you'd manage volume in order to keep the workload similar while doing triples, or if you'd just deload and hammer the triple sfor now.

Calculate it out 5x5 = 25 reps, 3x8 = 24 reps if the poundage is held constant you wind up with roughly the same load (minus the one rep). This is what superrice did on the Korte program as he was getting too fatigued, he kept the target weight constant but lowered the reps and increased the sets (there are other factors but it's fairly equivalent and a nice workaround).

Of course if the weight is going to move just multiply reps X weight and you arrive at tonnage to make a comparison.

A lot of info here with some sample calcs to get the feel for it and the info at the top (more in the link at the top) will provide the definitions and framework for workload calcs: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5017744&postcount=686

 

[anotherbutters]

Thanks G5.0. Yeh, I'm really, really proud of the military results. I'd never done them before the DF 5x5 that preceeded this SF, but I thought the 'new exercise' gains would have slowed down long ago.

Yes, I realise that's a deload. I forgot to mention in my previous post that I'd also considered throwing in back-off sets to keep the overall load the same to maintain my conditioning. Maybe a deload will do me good though. I don't feel fatigued, but I've been at this for 13 weeks straight so that's a lot of time for it to creep up on me slowly without me realising.

If nothing else, dropping to triples means I can already say I got 3 plates on deads

Sit back and enjoy

 

[Guinness5.0]

Calculate it out 5x5 = 25 reps, 3x8 = 24 reps if the poundage is held constant you wind up with roughly the same load (minus the one rep). This is what superrice did on the Korte program as he was getting too fatigued, he kept the target weight constant but lowered the reps and increased the sets (there are other factors but it's fairly equivalent and a nice workaround).

Of course if the weight is going to move just multiply reps X weight and you arrive at tonnage to make a comparison.

A lot of info here with some sample calcs to get the feel for it and the info at the top (more in the link at the top) will provide the definitions and framework for workload calcs: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5017744&postcount=686

I edited my post b/c I worded it poorly.

I was wondering 'aloud' whether A-B would want to keep the workload the same while transitioning to triples, or simply deload and let the workload come back up as his triples progressed.

Does that make sense?

EDIT (sorry, it's one of those days): For example rather than 3x3 doing 5x3 or whatever # of sets that net him a rigorous session approximating the workload of the 5x5 scheme, then progressing on that scheme.

 

[anotherbutters]

Calculate it out 5x5 = 25 reps, 3x8 = 24 reps if the poundage is held constant you wind up with roughly the same load (minus the one rep).

Eight triples? Bugger, I thought I was going to have an easy time with this

Actually, that's not right because I've been doing 1x5 ramping, so 8 triples would be more load. I might do the loading calculation for each lift, do 3x3's and throw in some back-off sets based on the calculation. Overall, keeping the load about the same or a little less.

BW: sorry, that's what I meant - a 3x3 scheme, but carrying on SF style with triple PR attempts starting next week if I pick the weights right.

Edit for G5.0: wow, this thread's really moving tonight In answer to your question, I'm not sure myself whether I want to do 3x3 and deload or 3x3 plus something else to maintain the load and keep an eye out for fatigue like BW said. And sorry if I appear to keep changing my mind

 

[Madcow2]

Probably a lot of things he could do. It's pretty open ended. I haven't kept tabs recently but if he stalled and major lifts aren't progressing (and to be honest, if the squat is still moving up I wouldn't make massive changes) he can change some things. He could change his rep range and hold workload constant allowing him to train with different weights - might get him some progression. He could back off for a week or so (i.e. like a deload, maybe work on triples) and then reset his weights a bit below previous records and try to blast through again after a couple of weeks. Hell he could even use a 'shock' technique where maybe you do 20 rep squats or even perform 5x5 with your best 1x5 (just take a lot of time, rerack if necessary, this will suck but get all the reps in - I think Glenn uses this sometimes or a variation). He could probably do a combination of these things but those are some ideas in the raw that usually work to get one past a stalled point without materially altering a longer term training plan.

Maybe give a few days and see if Glenn chimes in or see if he'll look at your recent stall and suggest something - it would be valuable for others I'm sure as some people are using the same program and stalling is inevitable. He might provide something unique or help select and reaffirm one of the options we've talked about.

 

[anotherbutters]

I haven't kept tabs recently but if he stalled and major lifts aren't progressing (and to be honest, if the squat is still moving up I wouldn't make massive changes) he can change some things.

I added a 'summary so far' in post 265 above. I've basically done a text book single factor with minimal assistance exercises so far.

My squat might be a bit of a red herring because I'm new to doing them freeweight.

Maybe give a few days and see if Glenn chimes in or see if he'll look at your recent stall and suggest something - it would be valuable for others I'm sure as some people are using the same program and stalling is inevitable. He might provide something unique or help select and reaffirm one of the options we've talked about.

That's what I was hoping, but I've had some great advice already from everyone tonight. Thanks guys.

Must spread k again...

 

[anotherbutters]

If nothing else, dropping to triples means I can already say I got 3 plates on deads

Just realised I'm wrong. I've done a triple at 135kg, but not three plates (140kg). Something to aim for I guess...

 

[anotherbutters]

Week 13, Friday

Bodyweight: 80kg/176lb (should have gone up by now - need to eat more)

I wasn't sure what to do today, whether to do a normal SF 5x5 workout or switch to 3x3. I did a normal workout because I wanted to see how a higher weight on bench would feel, since the PR on Monday was very close to failure for the 2nd week running. I knew squats would go up. For rows, I dropped the weight a little to see where my form would break.


1. Freeweight back squats (kg)
bar x 18 ........ warmup
40 x 9 .......... warmup
60 x 5
70 x 5
80 x 5
90 x 5
105 x 3 ......... up 2.5 ...... (231lb)
80 x 8

2. Bench (kg)
bar x 9 ......... warmup
30 x 9 .......... warmup
47.5 x 5
52.5 x 5
58.5 x 5
63.5 x 5
72.5 x 3 ........ up 1.5 ........ (160lb)
60 x 8

3. Row (kg)
30 x 9 .......... warmup
40 x 5
45 x 5
51 x 5
56 x 5
60 x 4 ......... down 2.5 ...... (132lb)
51 x 8

4. Abs - planks
20 secs per side (right, front, left), total 2 min 12 secs


Comments

Squats - hard, but ok. Slowed down on the 3rd rep of the triple, so this weight's about right. The back off set was too light - I rep'd it quite fast for fun.

Bench - I thought this would bury me, but I got the triple. I wouldn't have been able to do 5 reps though. The back-off set was pretty hard. Form was pretty good today. From past experience, I'd say I could get 5 reps on Monday.

Rows - I lowered the weight to see how many good reps I could do. My form was good until the 4th rep, where I started to stand up. A fifth rep would probably have been too bad to count, although I didn't try it. I think I've overstepped my weight on these and should go back to this weight. The back-off set was pretty hard, with my form breaking on the final rep.

Abs - did planks for a laugh, since I said they were a bit sissy last week Ouch! I think I did these right - on my elbows and the sides of my feet/on my toes and nothing else touching the floor. I managed two 'sets' and gave up into the third one. I'm sure I could have gone on for longer, but I was pretty tired by then I should have done a few sets of these, but calling it a night was much more appealing.


After getting the bench triple, I wondered about trying for 5 reps on Monday as per usual and not messing with the workout format just yet. That got me thinking - I should be able to get the squat PR and I was very close on the military PR this week, so I ought to get that next week too. Pullups felt so good this week with the new 8x3 scheme that I even entertained the thought of adding a little weight for the first time (maybe just 2lb).

So that leaves rows and deads. I don't feel like I've gotten stronger on either of them for a while. Heavier rows just get more messy and heavier deads just bury me further into the ground.

I'm thinking of leaving most of the set/rep schemes as they are, but changing rows and deads to 3x3, so a bit of a hybrid workout. Something like 1x3 rows on Monday, then 3x3 deads on Wed and 3x3 rows on Fri. Sound good?