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6 Pack
- Thread starter Needhelp
- Start date
Weight: 160lbs
Age: 16
Height: 5'11"
BF%: 12-15%, I would guess (I can see top 4 abs, bottom 2 aren't defined at ALL! - I want all 6 to show more though)
Training: Beginner
I was thinking about doing GBC, or Meltdown traing for a routine... Off of t-mag.com, but i'm not for sure.
How many times should I work abs each week?
What things should I do for abs, and should I change it weekly or just do the same things? I've heard some people say variety is key, especially with abs... others say it doesn't matter..
Age: 16
Height: 5'11"
BF%: 12-15%, I would guess (I can see top 4 abs, bottom 2 aren't defined at ALL! - I want all 6 to show more though)
Training: Beginner
I was thinking about doing GBC, or Meltdown traing for a routine... Off of t-mag.com, but i'm not for sure.
How many times should I work abs each week?
What things should I do for abs, and should I change it weekly or just do the same things? I've heard some people say variety is key, especially with abs... others say it doesn't matter..
bignate73
New member
its all about your food and ability to lose bodyfat. (ie cardio)
i worked mine a total of 3x prepping for my show. so it depends on how you want them to look. big and blocky or smaller waistline. genetics will play a role but working them more or less wont get them leaner faster.
i worked mine a total of 3x prepping for my show. so it depends on how you want them to look. big and blocky or smaller waistline. genetics will play a role but working them more or less wont get them leaner faster.
bignate73
New member
your calories and ratios of macronutrients is individual to your BMR. there is no cookie cutter diet you can follow, its individual to your energy output. i wont be irresponsible and tell you what calorie range to shoot for, because quite frankly i dont know what you do all day.
blockier, meaning thicker. definition comes from how lean you are, not what you do for exercises. my obliques suck the skin IN when i flex them, and i do jack shit for them. abs are one area where its all about how strong and big you want them...not how sharp they will come in by working them more. spot reduction is still a myth these days...despite what infomercials say.
blockier, meaning thicker. definition comes from how lean you are, not what you do for exercises. my obliques suck the skin IN when i flex them, and i do jack shit for them. abs are one area where its all about how strong and big you want them...not how sharp they will come in by working them more. spot reduction is still a myth these days...despite what infomercials say.
theoak01
New member
try a diet with lower carbs maybe 60 pro 25 carb and 15 fat but good fats not shitty fats,im talking flax all that good stuff
and cardio up to 5 times a week for 35min - 1hr depending on how you feel
and if you dont want to really put on mass then a full body routine shouldnt be to bad,im on one for strength and endurance and love it
and cardio up to 5 times a week for 35min - 1hr depending on how you feel
and if you dont want to really put on mass then a full body routine shouldnt be to bad,im on one for strength and endurance and love it
I think i'm gonna do the T-Dawg diet, and Meltdown training.....
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/173melt.html
http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_83diet.html
What is BMR?
I'm 160.. not that active really, usually working all day which doesn't burn too many calories
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/173melt.html
http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_83diet.html
What is BMR?
I'm 160.. not that active really, usually working all day which doesn't burn too many calories
You're 5'11 and 160lbs? That's kinda thin already isn't it? A few months ago I had the same goal. I got on a diet (nothing extreme, I just watched my calories and macronutrient ratios). and I lost a lot of fat. My abs started showing. Problem is, I lost fat everywhere else, and I just looked smaller all over in general. Sure I had abs, but, nobody can see them when your shirt is on, and when you got a shirt on, you just look like a skinny little guy.
Chicks don't dig that.
Why not start training and get big all over, then try cutting next summer?
I'm finally at a more "normal" weight, and my girlfriend still thinks i'm too thin. So, just some thoughts from a guy that's been there.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Chicks don't dig that.
Why not start training and get big all over, then try cutting next summer?
I'm finally at a more "normal" weight, and my girlfriend still thinks i'm too thin. So, just some thoughts from a guy that's been there.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
You're probably right... But shouldn't I bulk for like 3 months, cut for 1-2, etc..? I heard just bulking for like 6 months is bad...
Would 2800 calories be a good start for a bulk? Since i'm coming off eating next to nothing?
Increase if i'm not gaining and my WO's are going good.. Decrease if i'm gaining too much fat?
Would 2800 calories be a good start for a bulk? Since i'm coming off eating next to nothing?
Increase if i'm not gaining and my WO's are going good.. Decrease if i'm gaining too much fat?
I'm 5'10, 160lbs and I'm in the same situation as Needhelp. Except my abs are less defined as I can only just barely see the top two..
I'd bulk, but then I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to cut properly, you know? So I'm trying to get cut first so I can see that six-pack and MAKE SURE i can acheive the six-pac. Getting fat wouldn't help me much
I'd bulk, but then I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to cut properly, you know? So I'm trying to get cut first so I can see that six-pack and MAKE SURE i can acheive the six-pac. Getting fat wouldn't help me much
DIET
Hey, when trying to achieve anything having to do with lifting and physique its all about the diet. Abs are all diet, you can get the first four without dieting but to get the bottom 2, unless you have great genetics you need to go on a low carb diet. Try and cycle your carbs.
Day 1: 150 grams of carbs
Day 2: 300 grams
Day 3: 75 grams
Day 4: 0 grams
Try this for a while and see what happens, also, incorporate cadio first thing in the morning before breakfast.
Hey, when trying to achieve anything having to do with lifting and physique its all about the diet. Abs are all diet, you can get the first four without dieting but to get the bottom 2, unless you have great genetics you need to go on a low carb diet. Try and cycle your carbs.
Day 1: 150 grams of carbs
Day 2: 300 grams
Day 3: 75 grams
Day 4: 0 grams
Try this for a while and see what happens, also, incorporate cadio first thing in the morning before breakfast.
bignate73
New member
Re: DIET
not particularly. all you have to do is understand calories in vs. calories out. carbs have nothing to do with the equation. starve the fat by keeping your intake of fats low, yes. but carbs are necessary for burning fat. hence the phrase "fat burns in a carbohydrate flame". actually when getting down to competition levels of bodyfat, an INCREASE in calories will offset the catabolism (protein sparing via carbs) and a shift of energy output (increase) is generally used so the athlete can work harder vs. feeling drained AND starved.
cheeta said:
not particularly. all you have to do is understand calories in vs. calories out. carbs have nothing to do with the equation. starve the fat by keeping your intake of fats low, yes. but carbs are necessary for burning fat. hence the phrase "fat burns in a carbohydrate flame". actually when getting down to competition levels of bodyfat, an INCREASE in calories will offset the catabolism (protein sparing via carbs) and a shift of energy output (increase) is generally used so the athlete can work harder vs. feeling drained AND starved.
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greenday
New member
Just take in less calories per day , take in 2000 calories if you usually have 2500, men usually carry fat in the stomach. A reduction of calories over time will likely get your result. I can get a 6 pack whenever I want to, without doing a single ab exercise. Look at the TV show 'Survivor', how many of those men had guts going there, and left with 6 packs, and I didn't see them doing lame ab exercises, like sit ups.
hey im 18 and looking for a six pac also.
Im 6'1, 205, no clue on bodyfat though (how do ya check).
Ive been in the gym for close to a year, but never really worked abs or did much cardio ( i did some though). Any advice for me would be appreciated, but my questions now are
when you say calories are a must, what about "fat Calories"?
Also, whats a max on carbs you think, or are you saying it doesnt matter go aheead eat you potato with your steak?
Im 6'1, 205, no clue on bodyfat though (how do ya check).
Ive been in the gym for close to a year, but never really worked abs or did much cardio ( i did some though). Any advice for me would be appreciated, but my questions now are
when you say calories are a must, what about "fat Calories"?
So watch the "Fat g." on the nutrition lable?
Also, whats a max on carbs you think, or are you saying it doesnt matter go aheead eat you potato with your steak?
I don't know how everyone else bulks. I've read a lot of stuff where people bulk for a while then cut for a while. So, you can try that.Needhelp said:
If you're 160, 2900 to 3200 calories per day would be optimal. Maybe for a week or two go with like 2600-2800 to get your body ready for food again. You WILL gain some fat though just from eating more calories than you use.
Search the board for some bulking diets.
Personally, I got tired of trying to eat perfectly. I figure, I'm not gonna be a competition style bb, I just want to get some size on me, some strength, and then we'll see about cutting down to a sexy sexy body
How long have you been training? Sometimes people don't have enough muscle definition in their abs to even show them. If you're dead set on cutting, maybe you could cut for a few months just to get into a habit of eating properly and getting your training in order. Then start to bulk, just eat more of the same kinds of food but adjust the amount.Toshendin said:I'm 5'10, 160lbs and I'm in the same situation as Needhelp. Except my abs are less defined as I can only just barely see the top two..
I'd bulk, but then I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to cut properly, you know? So I'm trying to get cut first so I can see that six-pack and MAKE SURE i can acheive the six-pac. Getting fat wouldn't help me much
I swear to God though, when you go to the gym and see guys way bigger than you, you'll want to start bulking. A girl once told me, while it is nice to see a guy who's hella cut, its just as nice to see a guy with some size to him.
Food for thought.
nikkita
New member
Needhelp,
how is your current abs workout ? do you already train abs hard?
abs should be trained as any other muscle, at least three times per week... in order to see your six pack your routine must to build muscle mass then after 4 weeks definition. do you have already a specific diet??
how is your current abs workout ? do you already train abs hard?
abs should be trained as any other muscle, at least three times per week... in order to see your six pack your routine must to build muscle mass then after 4 weeks definition. do you have already a specific diet??
gettinlarger
New member
no offense, nikkita, but saying everything needs to be trained 3x a week ... is, well, stupid.
and needhelp ... to get a 6 pack, you need to cut off the fat you have on your stomach. diet and cardio is your only answer. take in less calories than you burn.
and needhelp ... to get a 6 pack, you need to cut off the fat you have on your stomach. diet and cardio is your only answer. take in less calories than you burn.
This is my diet, but i'm bulking..
7:00 (Or 8) - 4 Egg whites (I heard eating the whole egg was bad), Cup of oatmeal, and a banana
9:30 - Whey W/ Milk
12:00 - 2 Chicken Breast, Rice, Brocolli
2:30 - Whey W/ Milk (Any other suggestions here, something cheap and fast to make)
3:00 - Work
9:00 - Off Work
9:30 - Whey W/ Grape Juice
9:35 - Workout
10:30 - Whey W/ Grape Juice
Should I workout in the morning instead of @ night, or would night be the best? I am just starting a new job, and they don't like it when people eat on the job but i'm gonna try and take some sunflower seeds or something...
7:00 (Or 8) - 4 Egg whites (I heard eating the whole egg was bad), Cup of oatmeal, and a banana
9:30 - Whey W/ Milk
12:00 - 2 Chicken Breast, Rice, Brocolli
2:30 - Whey W/ Milk (Any other suggestions here, something cheap and fast to make)
3:00 - Work
9:00 - Off Work
9:30 - Whey W/ Grape Juice
9:35 - Workout
10:30 - Whey W/ Grape Juice
Should I workout in the morning instead of @ night, or would night be the best? I am just starting a new job, and they don't like it when people eat on the job but i'm gonna try and take some sunflower seeds or something...
nikkita
New member
maybe I didn't explain well because it's not easy to write in foreign language... what I'm saying is not to train every muscle 3 times per week, course this is stupid... what I mean is that abs should not be disregarded just because they are abs, I put people to train 3 times per week only abs, depending on their goals. some people just don't give the attention to abs and train it every day... what I meant is that if you want to see your bi's you train them hard, if not you'll not see progress or you'll see it at a slower pace.... if you have questions feel free to ask me.
on the other hand, if you are a guy and want to have 6 pack you'll need to train with weight, if the goal is to maintain a small waist then the weight is out. What I say about definition after mass is because even if you have a super clean diet and train light abs you're not going to see a six pack... you have to train so that when you cut with your diet you see the pack.
Needhelp, in my opinion training at night is better because you have the nutrients of your meals accumulated. I also think that you need to eat more if you are bulking, how many protein grams do you have per shake? what do you eat at lunch time? do you have a pre- and post-work meal or do you only take whey w/grape juice?
on the other hand, if you are a guy and want to have 6 pack you'll need to train with weight, if the goal is to maintain a small waist then the weight is out. What I say about definition after mass is because even if you have a super clean diet and train light abs you're not going to see a six pack... you have to train so that when you cut with your diet you see the pack.
Needhelp, in my opinion training at night is better because you have the nutrients of your meals accumulated. I also think that you need to eat more if you are bulking, how many protein grams do you have per shake? what do you eat at lunch time? do you have a pre- and post-work meal or do you only take whey w/grape juice?
Thanks for the help Nikkita...
Yeah, for post and pre.. I just take whey with ~25 oz's of grape juice (I heard that's good because low GI or something)...
30 grams of protein per shake...
@ lunch, I have 2 chicken breasts, rice, and broccoli.
What would you add/change if you were me?
From 3:00-9:00, I really can't eat much if anything because of work... On my day offs, i'll probably have a chicken breast around 4:00...
So, I should do weighted crunches for abs? Anything else?
Thanks again man
Yeah, for post and pre.. I just take whey with ~25 oz's of grape juice (I heard that's good because low GI or something)...
30 grams of protein per shake...
@ lunch, I have 2 chicken breasts, rice, and broccoli.
What would you add/change if you were me?
From 3:00-9:00, I really can't eat much if anything because of work... On my day offs, i'll probably have a chicken breast around 4:00...
So, I should do weighted crunches for abs? Anything else?
Thanks again man
bignate73
New member
the grape juice and whey FOLLOWING your workout is fine. 25oz is quite a bit though. alot of unnecessary sugars. its good to get some simple sugars post workout.
breakfast is fine. whole eggs are not bad, especially if bulking. the fats are high but the calories will add up a bit too. looking at your food intake, it doesnt reflect a bulking diet. the calories dont look like they will add up considerably. is the oatmeal (1 cup) dry? or is that 1 cup measured after its cooked. trust me it makes a difference. 1 cup measured after its cooked is next to nothing, caloriewise.
as for grape juice being good before and after. skip the whey before, and dilute a little of the juice and sip it as you workout. you dont want to have a load of fluid in your stomach, nor force your body to digest anything while you need the blood in your muscles.
so basically you have only 2 solid food meals, with a possible third. i would shoot for something that will take a while to break down. brown rice, yams, oatmeal etc. even if you can do a bagel and something at work that will break up your day so you dont rely so heavily on liquid meals. even for cutting this is a good idea.
get in the habit of either calculating your calories up front or as you go through the day, to make sure you eat enough or dont overeat. (which i dont think is the case). its not a matter of you eating clean and you'll cut up. its a matter of you eating the right amount of calories. you could eat like shit and cut up, or you can eat clean and gain fat. calories, thats the name of the game.
hope that helps.
nate
breakfast is fine. whole eggs are not bad, especially if bulking. the fats are high but the calories will add up a bit too. looking at your food intake, it doesnt reflect a bulking diet. the calories dont look like they will add up considerably. is the oatmeal (1 cup) dry? or is that 1 cup measured after its cooked. trust me it makes a difference. 1 cup measured after its cooked is next to nothing, caloriewise.
as for grape juice being good before and after. skip the whey before, and dilute a little of the juice and sip it as you workout. you dont want to have a load of fluid in your stomach, nor force your body to digest anything while you need the blood in your muscles.
so basically you have only 2 solid food meals, with a possible third. i would shoot for something that will take a while to break down. brown rice, yams, oatmeal etc. even if you can do a bagel and something at work that will break up your day so you dont rely so heavily on liquid meals. even for cutting this is a good idea.
get in the habit of either calculating your calories up front or as you go through the day, to make sure you eat enough or dont overeat. (which i dont think is the case). its not a matter of you eating clean and you'll cut up. its a matter of you eating the right amount of calories. you could eat like shit and cut up, or you can eat clean and gain fat. calories, thats the name of the game.
hope that helps.
nate
louden_swain
New member
Here is my ab routine:
Cable crunches - 1 x 30
Incline Crunches - 1 x 30
Reverse Crunches - 1 x 30
Alternating Crunches 1 x 30
My genetics have given my a streamlined waist naturally, so I only train them once a week. The key is to watch the diet. Never ever use weights when you train abs!!
Cable crunches - 1 x 30
Incline Crunches - 1 x 30
Reverse Crunches - 1 x 30
Alternating Crunches 1 x 30
My genetics have given my a streamlined waist naturally, so I only train them once a week. The key is to watch the diet. Never ever use weights when you train abs!!
What routine should I do, as a beginner....
4 x 6-10 for everything; failure on every set....
Day 1: Chest, Triceps.
Day 2: Quads, Hamstrings
Day 3: Delts
Day 4: Calves,Abs, Forearms
Day 5: Back, Biceps
Day 6: Rest.
Day 7: Rest.
Chest,Triceps
Incline barbell Bench, Incline Flyes (Or would flat flyes be better?), Flat Barbell Bench, Dips
Quads & Hams
Squats, Stiffleg Deadlifts, Front Squat, Leg Curls
Delts
Military Press, Shrugs, Upright Rows, Front DB raises, Clean & Press
Calves, Abs, Forearms
standing calve raises, seated calve raises
Weighted Crunchs, Twist Crunches, Hanging Leglifts
Reverse barbell curls, farmers walk
Back'N'Biceps
Palms Away Pullups, Deads, DB Rows, Incline Dumbbell Curls, Barbell Curls, Concentration Curls, Hammer Curls
That, or...
http://wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=25
I think i'm gonna go with the first one.. The first couple weeks, ill go pretty light and stuff but after that i'll be going as heavy as possible...
4 x 6-10 for everything; failure on every set....
Day 1: Chest, Triceps.
Day 2: Quads, Hamstrings
Day 3: Delts
Day 4: Calves,Abs, Forearms
Day 5: Back, Biceps
Day 6: Rest.
Day 7: Rest.
Chest,Triceps
Incline barbell Bench, Incline Flyes (Or would flat flyes be better?), Flat Barbell Bench, Dips
Quads & Hams
Squats, Stiffleg Deadlifts, Front Squat, Leg Curls
Delts
Military Press, Shrugs, Upright Rows, Front DB raises, Clean & Press
Calves, Abs, Forearms
standing calve raises, seated calve raises
Weighted Crunchs, Twist Crunches, Hanging Leglifts
Reverse barbell curls, farmers walk
Back'N'Biceps
Palms Away Pullups, Deads, DB Rows, Incline Dumbbell Curls, Barbell Curls, Concentration Curls, Hammer Curls
That, or...
http://wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=25
I think i'm gonna go with the first one.. The first couple weeks, ill go pretty light and stuff but after that i'll be going as heavy as possible...
bignate73 said:
Thanks Nate..
So no whey preworkout? And drink the grape juice while working out?
The rice is 1 cup before cooking...
@ 9:30 AM, i'll in a cup of oatmeal too... and a banana
@ 2:30, i'll eat a cup of oatmeal, and a banna too...
I'll eat 4 whole eggs, not just egg whites...
Any other suggestions?
Would this schedule be better?
I'm gonna try and get my work changed to 1-6, and i'm pretty sure I could...
7:00 - 5 Eggs, Cup oatmeal, Banana, Milk
10:00 - Whey W/ Milk, Banana, Oatmeal
12:00 - Chicken Breast, Cup of Rice, Brocolli
1-6 @ work
6:30 - Whey W/ 20 oz's grape juice
6:40 - WO
7:40 - Whey / 20 oz's Grape Juice
9:00 - Chicken Breast, Milk, Brocolli
10:30 - Sunflower seeds
11:00 - sleep
I'm gonna try and get my work changed to 1-6, and i'm pretty sure I could...
7:00 - 5 Eggs, Cup oatmeal, Banana, Milk
10:00 - Whey W/ Milk, Banana, Oatmeal
12:00 - Chicken Breast, Cup of Rice, Brocolli
1-6 @ work
6:30 - Whey W/ 20 oz's grape juice
6:40 - WO
7:40 - Whey / 20 oz's Grape Juice
9:00 - Chicken Breast, Milk, Brocolli
10:30 - Sunflower seeds
11:00 - sleep
nikkita
New member
I checked your diet and I see you're not eating enough protein for your Weight: 160lbs... protein intake is to be approx 1.5g per pound, so I added a few things to your diet (considering your work).
7:00 - 5 Eggs, Cup oatmeal, Banana, Milk
>> 2 nuts or almonds + glutamine + whey
10:00 - Whey W/ Milk, Banana, Oatmeal
>> tuna
12:00 - Chicken Breast, Cup of Rice, Brocolli
>> meat 6oz approx + 1tsp. olive oil
1-6 @ work
6:30 - Whey W/ 20 oz's grape juice
6:40 - WO
7:40 - Whey / 20 oz's Grape Juice
9:00 - Chicken Breast, Milk, Brocolli
10:30 - Sunflower seeds
>>glutamine
11:00 - sleep
Regarding your workout (considering you're bulking), we can take from the one you already have to get something like this (to failure):
wk 1 &3
leg over (obliques & lower abs) 3 x 15
hanging leg raises (lower abs) 3 x15 (hold contracted position for 2-5secs before returning to original position
(weighted) crunches (upper abs) 3 x 15 ** (this is optional if you don't want to use weight)
wk 2 &4
hanging twisted raises 20-25 per leg
reverse crunches 3 x 10
seated bench crunch 3x10
Aim at performing at least each set 3 times per week, one day rest in between...
well tell me what you think and hope that my input is useful to you.
have nice day
7:00 - 5 Eggs, Cup oatmeal, Banana, Milk
>> 2 nuts or almonds + glutamine + whey
10:00 - Whey W/ Milk, Banana, Oatmeal
>> tuna
12:00 - Chicken Breast, Cup of Rice, Brocolli
>> meat 6oz approx + 1tsp. olive oil
1-6 @ work
6:30 - Whey W/ 20 oz's grape juice
6:40 - WO
7:40 - Whey / 20 oz's Grape Juice
9:00 - Chicken Breast, Milk, Brocolli
10:30 - Sunflower seeds
>>glutamine
11:00 - sleep
Regarding your workout (considering you're bulking), we can take from the one you already have to get something like this (to failure):
wk 1 &3
leg over (obliques & lower abs) 3 x 15
hanging leg raises (lower abs) 3 x15 (hold contracted position for 2-5secs before returning to original position
(weighted) crunches (upper abs) 3 x 15 ** (this is optional if you don't want to use weight)
wk 2 &4
hanging twisted raises 20-25 per leg
reverse crunches 3 x 10
seated bench crunch 3x10
Aim at performing at least each set 3 times per week, one day rest in between...
well tell me what you think and hope that my input is useful to you.
have nice day
bignate73
New member
Needhelp said:
here is the thinking on the whey preworkout.
eating protein, of any sort (predigested or otherwise), will require your body to make a choice for bloodflow. either supply the working muscles or digest. sympathetic nervous system, or parasympathetic, work hard or relax and absorb. the usual idea is to eat an hour or so prior, not 10 minutes. even if taking protein such as branch chain aminos, you would wait 30-45 min before working out. as for the diluted grape juice; just for energy. but diluted still. POST workout you can immediately hit the simple sugars and protein since you are at an optimal time for absorption. followed an hour or so later by a well rounded meal with not only starchy carbs but also fibrous. skip the whole carb tapering thing i notice going on with the eating plans mentioned. you need carbs round the clock to spare protein for other uses.
as for having 1.5gms+ per lb of protein. thats all fine and dandy, many will go with that, but im not a fan of it. offseason bodybuilders in adaptation require 1.2-1.8 gms per Kg (not lbs). keep in mind, workload is harder so your macronutrients shift towards carbs to fuel your workouts and spare protein. as you begin to cut, then shifting towards proteins is optimal since the body's demands to keep muscle are stressed. a ready source of protein in the blood supply can be used to spare muscle in times of stress. (low calorie intake, excessive cardio etc.)
but as the argument will go round and round. "everyone is different.
my macronutrient ratios right now are 50-55 carbs, 25-30 proteins, 15-20 fats. thats what ive found to feel the best for the foods i eat, keeps me full, etc. calories about 3500-3800.
this is how you troubleshoot slow gains, slow fat loss etc. you get exacting quantities of what you are taking in your body so all you have to do is tweak that a bit and work on how much you put out of your body through exercise. if you can without a doubt say you are eating over your proposed maintenance, in decent ratios, you will grow. if you can say you are eating under maintenance, you will lose weight.
First, aren't cable crunches weighted crunches?louden_swain said:
Second, why dont' you use weights? I guess it all depends on your goals, but, I've read that non-weighted crunches will give you flatter abs, while weighted ones will give you lumpier ones. IMO, bigger abs are much more impressive than flat abs. Flat abs just look like you're a thin guy. Big abs make you look buff. They're also easier to see when you have some fat covering 'em up.
Third, I don't get the logic as to why you wouldn't train with weight. Sure, doing 30 crunches may be hard for some people without weight, but at some point they'll get to the point where its too easy. Where's the muscle stimulation? Would you keep curling a 15lb weight to grow your biceps? Again, I guess it depends on your goals.
