30,000 mgs of ALA?

[newlurker]

All at once? 10,000 *3?
Thanks!

 

[naturally anabolic]

one word...overkill

 

[newlurker]

Pardon? I don't understand.

 

[naturally anabolic]

30,000mg of ALA is toxic on the human body....

 

[MS]

Aside from the obvious question of "why?", I don't know of anyone who's tried that much. In sensitive people as little as 1200mg (IV) per day causes skin reactions, nausea, & vomiting. Prolonged high doses in rats leads to reduced thyroid function. No one knows yet if this happens in humans. Less sensitive people can no doubt tolerate more than this (and do), but I think 30,000mg is beyond sanity.

 

[KEL]

All at once? 10,000 *3?

Why so much?

 

[newlurker]

I read a long post about it yesterday on one of the Elite fitness sites. I am looking for it. His information disagrees with yours. I guess I'll do my own research.

 

[newlurker]

OK, I found the post.
I WAS WRONG! I WAS WRONG! I WAS WRONG! I WAS WRONG! I WAS WRONG!

Here it is. Posted by Fonz:

Lipoic Acid: Same anabolic effects as a weak AAS like Primo
OK, I see some people still don't fully understand how ALA
works. Yes, its the best liver protector out there, BUT
it also has some pretty incredible nutrient partitioning
qualities similiar to those of a weak AAS liek Primo.

Lets examine the physiological response to a meal
taken with ALA and w/o ALA.

THIS WHOLE SCENARIO ASSUMES GLYCOGEN STORES
ARE ALREADY FULL!!! Remember this......(This is the
scenario when bulking)


1. Meal taken w/o ALA.

i) Food(Macro-nutrients) are ingested.
ii) Body converts these nutrients to glucose,
its main source of fuel.(Protein and triglycerides
also convert to glucose btw)
Protein: 58% glucogenic
Fat: 10% glucogenic
iii) The body detects the glucose entering the Blood-stream
and releases insulin to shuttle the glucose/amino-acids/fats
into the cells. This is done by the Pancreas.
These cells are the miocytes(muscle cells) and
adipocytes(fat cells)

Now, the muscle-cells are COMPLETELY full, so all
the nutrients are either shuttled INTO the
adipocytes(fat cells) or oxidized for energy.

Net result: INCREASE IN FAT MASS.

Now, Meal taken w/ ALA

i) Food(Macro-nutrients) are ingested.
ii) Body converts these nutrients to glucose,
its main source of fuel.(Protein and triglycerides
also convert to glucose btw)
Protein: 58% glucogenic
Fat: 10% glucogenic
iii) The body detects the glucose entering the Blood-stream
and releases insulin to shuttle the glucose/amino-acids/fats
into the cells.
These cells are the miocytes(muscle cells) and
adipocytes(fat cells)

However,(And this is the IMPORTANT PART), ALA
has increased the amount of glut-4 transporters
on the out-side of the miocytes(muscle-cells)
considerably.(By roughly 50% from the studies that
have been posted)
This effect gives the msucle-cells the ability to soak up MORE
glucose from the blood-stream. In essence, you have
increased the amount of glycogen your muscles can store.

So, we now have a glucose wave incoming into the
the micoytes and adipopcytes which is being pushed
by a certain amount of insulin.(Depending on the amount
of food(type) consumed).

Now, in a normal scenario(like w/o ALA being added to the
meal) the net result would be fat gain, BUT the glucose is
now PARTIALLY being diverted to the miocytes(muscle-cells),
due to the increased cellular glut-4 content being generated
by the exogeneously orally administered ALA.
This now means that the glucose+nutrients are being
diverted to BOTH the MUSCLE-cells and fat-cells w/o
ANY CHANGE in insulogenic levels. While in the w/o
ALA scenario the glucose was being diverted STRAIGHT
to the fat-cells.

What does this all mean?

That by just adding ALA to a meal you have
diverted MORE NUTRIENTS into your muscle
cells than into your fat cells.
This is what a nutrient-partitioning agent does.
The net result is an increased muscle-gain over the
long-run with a smaller fat-gain.

To give you a quantitative idea, if a person
gains 10lbs muscle and 10lbs fat in a bulking
cycle w/o ALA. He/she is likely to gain around
14lbs muscle and 6 lbs fat if he/she would have
taken ALA.

Thats what makes ALA a kick-ass supplement.

This whole thread is of course in reference to
HIGH-DOSES of ALA. Roughly 3000mg/day or more.
And, before anybody starts saying that I'm going to
die, the toxic dose for a 165-lb individual is
30,000mg, so doomsayers begone.

Fonz

 

[Ceebs]

I was doing a BodyOpus-type carb-up once and took 5000mg, and it was like death. Wouldn't recommend it, unless you like shaking violently and projectile vomitting.