I don't get the benefits of hcg over clomid/nolva IF one's testes have NOT shrunk

[Nathan]

The whole point of HCG administration is to bring your testicular mass back up as well as to get your adrenal gland working to some extent and producing LH and FSH, right? Well, if you have testicular mass and take clomid or nolva, your FSH and LH increase in kind. If I am producing LH and FSH, mustn't my adrenal gland be working?

I might have the whole thing wrong and be misunderstanding since it has been awhile. But yeah, that was something I never understood. If your nuts don't shrink, isn't clomid or nolva a valid substitue?

 

[CremasterBlaster]

The secondary theory is that if you wait for "natural" HPTA function post cycle, you will lose gains made while on exogenous anabolics/androgens. It is this "window" post-cycle that most gains are lost as natty test levels are suppressed.....the HCG/nolva/clomid/POST-CYCLE etc..are used to shorten the time in which your body would take to produce natural test, allowing you to keep more gains.

 

[Nathan]

Yeah man, presume I'm not a newbie for a second though if you will. If you want to take a second stab, I'd appreciate it but my guess is that nobody will say mcuh cause they don't know either. Andif somebody does then great. I just notice everyone jumps on a bandwagon and repeats whatever is currently popular and back when I used to visit this board, hcg was not as popular as it seems to be now. Before that, however, I think it was. These things cycle in popularity.

Again, I could be wrong but I DO KNOW that this one is not obvious. I'm sure there are reasons why hcg is beneficial over clomid/nolva, but if testicle shirnkage isn't an issue, I don't get why hcg gets the adrenal gland working whereas clomid/nolva do not.

Am I correct that LH and FSH production are coming from the same place? If clomid can get them up while you are still shut down, what's the problem?

 

[gjohnson5]

1. Adrenal glands dont secrete lh - leutenizing hormone - and FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - and aren't associated with hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - ...
2. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - mimmics Lutenizing hormone
3. Just because you take clomid does not necessarily mean you will have a LH and FSH increase

I would assume that increasing clomid at the point the testicles are functioning normally probably will have no effect on LH and FSH and in turn testosterone. Testiclular shrinkage due to the testicles being sedentary and not producing testosterone. If they are working , I don't see the point in taking clomid

The whole point of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - administration is to bring your testicular mass back up as well as to get your adrenal gland working to some extent and producing lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - and FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , right? Well, if you have testicular mass and take clomid or Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , your FSH and LH increase in kind. If I am producing LH and FSH, mustn't my adrenal gland be working?

I might have the whole thing wrong and be misunderstanding since it has been awhile. But yeah, that was something I never understood. If your nuts don't shrink, isn't clomid or Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - a valid substitue?

 

[Nathan]

Yeah, I don't know why I said adrenal gland - I was watching Fear and Loathing I think is the problem.

But you are assuming that no testicular shrinkage implies that the testicles are producing testosterone, which does not necessarily have to be the case does it? And I'm pretty sure clomid will increase your LH no matter what - unless something else is boosting it and you are already at like 130% production of what you should be. It took me up above normal LH levels for males anyayws when I got my bloodwork done which I'm assuming my body would not have otherwise done.

So we are all in agreement than that HCG could very well be every bit as useful as clomid and when we read people say HCG IS A MUST what they mean is, hcg has worked for me but so can other options.

 

[gjohnson5]

HCG is not a must.
Let me get that straight.

It's like a political answer , LOL

 

[Nathan]

HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is not a must.
Let me get that straight.

It's like a political answer , LOL

Thanks bro. I just haven't been perusing these boards as much (other than for deleting spam) as I used to so certain things jump out at me since I remember different advice being commonly touted. I especially get all worked up when I see words like NEED and MUST, cause that's not the way I did it back when and my blood tests came out good. I think I'll get my sperm levels tested too for the fuck of it - I'm guessing it's free.

In the last month or so I've taken serious advantage of free health care. Full blood work, STD testing (shut up it was a formality and I'm clean), echocardiogram, psychiatrist visit, and I'm getting a mole removed (though that one is going to cost me $60 because it's cosmetic and I'm vain). Did you know that gyno surgery is covered in Canada if you get referred? Yep, I don't need it but I got my doc to refer me so that if I ever were to need it - like let's say I do a cycle down the road and screw up - guess who doesn't have to pay for it? Better safe than sorry I guess if I decide to do that again - who knows if I'll maybe go on test replacement down the road or what.

That doc was cool shit.

 

[worldclass]

Let me correct you on a couple things. HCG has been suggested on this board since 2001. It's not a new idea.
The purpose of it is restart your testes. By tricking the testes into thinking that there is LH present they begin to come back online. The HPTA may still be shut down but the LH mimic makes them restart some of the recovery. It's particularly "necessary" on a nandrolone/tren cycle. It gives the testes a jumpstart before the clomid goes to work.
The fact that HCG restores size is not the reason you use it for PCT. That's just for looks.

 

[Nathan]

Let me correct you on a couple things. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - has been suggested on this board since 2001. It's not a new idea.

I actually never said that but no worries - and I'm sure it's been discussed on here since more like 1999. But it's POPULARITY at any given time does change, just like all the drugs.

Also, your argument now has me wondering if maybe hcg is a far less ideal option than something like clomid since clomid will do the same thing PLUS get your hpta working again. Clomid WILL get your LH up and once that is elevated, you wouldn't nee hcg (unless you have no testicular mass, which was hwat I seem torecall people touting it for once upon a time, thuogh may have been select individuals who never really know what the fuck they were doing in the first place).

 

[gjohnson5]

Nathan, the statement in bold is not true...
Clomid administration is not a guarantee that the pituitary will secrete LH or FSH.

Some people such as NJMuscleGuy don't completely respond to clomid or HCG. Myogenx and Dermacrine Sustain allowed him to recover from hpta shutdown over both.

I actually never said that but no worries - and I'm sure it's been discussed on here since more like 1999. But it's POPULARITY at any given time does change, just like all the drugs.

Also, your argument now has me wondering if maybe HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is a far less ideal option than something like clomid since clomid will do the same thing PLUS get your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - working again. Clomid WILL get your lh - leutenizing hormone - up and once that is elevated, you wouldn't nee HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - (unless you have no testicular mass, which was hwat I seem torecall people touting it for once upon a time, thuogh may have been select individuals who never really know what the fuck they were doing in the first place).