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Blood test results for Sustain Alpha & Toco-8

Primordial Performance

Primordial Performance

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We just got some blood test results back from a very satisfied customer.

The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle. His levels where at 289ng/dl.

For PCT I instructed him to use Sustain Alpha with Toco-8. He didn’t expect to get his T levels past 300ng/dl since he had had low T level for so long. After the cycle, he ran the PCT for 30 days, then got his hormones values tested 30 days after PCT.

After PCT, his results came back with the highest levels of Testosterone he had in years --782 ng/dl. You will also notice a reduction in LH/FSH. This shows that his testes where sensitized to the effects of the LH/FSH and where able to make more testosterone with less stimulation. Toco-8 helps make the testes more sensitive to LH/FSH – testicular sensitivity is key.

We sell the Testosterone Recovery Stack which includes Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp (30 day supply). This is a complete, legal, PCT stack for only $119.99

You can purchase this stack here - www.primordialperformance.com

Thanks guys.

-Pp
 
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Nice. You guys want to know more about pp products just send me a pm. If I like you I will hook you up with a discount to. Maybe even get you a free t-shirt. I have to kiss up to pp to get it though.
 
PP has excellent delivery times, even to here, got me some sustain the other week, will let you all know how i go with it when i use it
 
comtemplationg ordering this, just need a job first.
 
Primordial Performance said:
Nothing wrong with taking it while you're on, especially if your trying to keep you LDL levels down and keep your hair.

-Pp
Click to expand...

How long does it take before you see a noticeable difference in LDL levels while on Toco 8?
My LDL in March was 125. Doc wants it under 100. My diet is very clean but I eat alot of steak.
 
Good stuff PP. Thinking of trying your product(s) soon, as discussed on OLM.

If only Ross and SSF could provide blood test results showing a raise in testosterone from using AndroGenerator. Which no-one has done on the internet yet.
 
*Swifto* said:
Good stuff PP. Thinking of trying your product(s) soon, as discussed on OLM.

If only Ross and SSF could provide blood test results showing a raise in testosterone from using AndroGenerator. Which no-one has done on the internet yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks bro. We would be glad to see blood test results if you decide to get them.

-Pp
 
*Swifto* said:
Good stuff PP. Thinking of trying your product(s) soon, as discussed on OLM.

If only Ross and SSF could provide blood test results showing a raise in testosterone from using AndroGenerator. Which no-one has done on the internet yet.
Click to expand...


No need to worry about blood test's w/ those other products, PP products are all you'll need. I'm very impressed w/ their profesionalism and customer service.

I've read MULTIPLE posts about PP products and talked to several friends (w/ blood test's) who swear by Sustain. There are probably over 100 people on elite that have used and will continue to use these products. I have recovered fully when using Sustain and now Sustain Alpha in PCT. I haven't read anything positive (not to say their isn't) about AndroGenerator.

Another positive is PP always responds to pm's answering any questions I've had on their products, and very fast too.

**There are other products like unleashed and post cycle that can contribute to a goo PCT, but there is no need for AndroGenerator when you have PP.
 
JimBoy said:
No need to worry about blood test's w/ those other products, PP products are all you'll need. I'm very impressed w/ their profesionalism and customer service.

I've read MULTIPLE posts about PP products and talked to several friends (w/ blood test's) who swear by Sustain. There are probably over 100 people on elite that have used and will continue to use these products. I have recovered fully when using Sustain and now Sustain Alpha in PCT. I haven't read anything positive (not to say their isn't) about AndroGenerator.

Another positive is PP always responds to pm's answering any questions I've had on their products, and very fast too.

**There are other products like unleashed and post cycle that can contribute to a goo PCT, but there is no need for AndroGenerator when you have PP.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear bro.

-Pp
 
I am going to be stacking a couple of prohormones for 4 weeks (CycloTren and Havoc).

I am planning on using Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 for PCT to keep my gains.

Should I wait a couple weeks and then start the PCT or should I immediately begin taking Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 after my last day of my little PH cycle?
 
Improvise said:
I am going to be stacking a couple of prohormones for 4 weeks (CycloTren and Havoc).

I am planning on using Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 for PCT to keep my gains.

Should I wait a couple weeks and then start the PCT or should I immediately begin taking Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 after my last day of my little PH cycle?
Click to expand...

Since both of those oral pro-hormones are probably going to clear within a couple days I would start PCT right after your last dose.

-Pp
 
*Swifto* said:
Good stuff PP. Thinking of trying your product(s) soon, as discussed on OLM.

If only Ross and SSF could provide blood test results showing a raise in testosterone from using AndroGenerator. Which no-one has done on the internet yet.
Click to expand...


or how about unleashed come out with a blood test proving it boost free test.

p.s.primordial has excellent products and customer service.
 
PP is top quality, wish I had some Dermacrine to run with my Var right now, but Ill have to wait till next pay check :-P

We have some top quality sponsors on this board.

Currently my dresser has Lipoflame/AMP02/RawMCC/Sustain Alpha/Dermatherm/Toco8/EndoAmp. Those are just the SPONSORS products I currently have, I think I have a couple days of Dermacrine left also lol.

-Legacy
 
DJLegacy2k1 said:
PP is top quality, wish I had some Dermacrine to run with my Var right now, but Ill have to wait till next pay check :-P

We have some top quality sponsors on this board.

Currently my dresser has Lipoflame/AMP02/RawMCC/Sustain Alpha/Dermatherm/Toco8/EndoAmp. Those are just the SPONSORS products I currently have, I think I have a couple days of Dermacrine left also lol.

-Legacy
Click to expand...

Wow bro.. nice stack. ;-)

-Pp
 
So if I wanted to try something non-hormonal, you're saying Sustain Alpha and Endoamp would do the trick as far as increasing testosterone levels? I bought your phyto-testosterone supplement back in December and found that it made a slight difference, although I may have expected a little too much for what it is.
Anywho, I'm 18 and not interested in doing steroids quite yet, this would seem to help recovery and perhaps even gains a little? (Not to mention libido)
(P.S. I have, according to a recent bloodtest, below average testosterone production with total test sitting around the 450~ mark.)
 
Last edited:
Daran said:
So if I wanted to try something non-hormonal, you're saying Sustain Alpha and Endoamp would do the trick as far as increasing testosterone levels? I bought your phyto-testosterone supplement back in December and found that it made a slight difference, although I may have expected a little too much for what it is.
Anywho, I'm 18 and not interested in doing steroids quite yet, this would seem to help recovery and perhaps even gains a little? (Not to mention libido)
(P.S. I have, according to a recent bloodtest, below average testosterone production with total test sitting around the 450~ mark.)
Click to expand...

If I had to choose between EndoAmp or Toco-8, I personally believe the Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 would be a more effective [and cheaper] combo for increasing testosterone.

EndoAmp is great if you’re under a lot of physiological/psychological stress, but the Toco-8 is very important for supporting the testes ability to produce testosterone – which should help bring up the T levels 20-30% in combo with the Sustain Alpha.

Of course, if you wanted to use all 3 products for a synergistic effect we offer the Testosterone Recovery Stack at a discounted price.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
If I had to choose between EndoAmp or Toco-8, I personally believe the Sustain Alpha and Toco-8 would be a more effective [and cheaper] combo for increasing testosterone.

EndoAmp is great if you’re under a lot of physiological/psychological stress, but the Toco-8 is very important for supporting the testes ability to produce testosterone – which should help bring up the T levels 20-30% in combo with the Sustain Alpha.

Of course, if you wanted to use all 3 products for a synergistic effect we offer the Testosterone Recovery Stack at a discounted price.

-Pp
Click to expand...

Alright cool cool, I'm a little limited on funds otherwise I'd go for the Recovery Stack. I looked on the PP.com website and the Sustain and Toco-8 alone add up to around 95-100 dollars.
Also... do you guys still give those discount codes?
 
Daran said:
Alright cool cool, I'm a little limited on funds otherwise I'd go for the Recovery Stack. I looked on the PP.com website and the Sustain and Toco-8 alone add up to around 95-100 dollars.
Also... do you guys still give those discount codes?
Click to expand...

SPONSOR10 will save you 10%

Also, the Toco is going to last you 60 days at the new concentration.

-Pp
 
PP.. I have just finished a Test recovery stack for PCT along with Nolva (also ran HCG on cycle). Going to have blood work done in next few days so very interested to see levels but my question is that I have suddenly noticed a little more loss of hair just lately. Nothing dramatic but is noticeable and even my wife has made comment and I wouldn't consider myself predisposed but I am 46 so this is more to do with general aging than anything else but no doubt cycling doesn't help. Knowing this and your Toco-8 how long can you run it for. Does it need any time off? Do you think I could seriously benefit from it?

Also I am going to be starting a new cycle shortly of probably just Test Prop for 12-14 weeks and how would this work in with the Toco? Would a combo of Dermacrine, Toco and Endo running through cycle be of any real benefit?
 
access said:
PP.. I have just finished a Test recovery stack for PCT along with Nolva (also ran HCG on cycle). Going to have blood work done in next few days so very interested to see levels but my question is that I have suddenly noticed a little more loss of hair just lately. Nothing dramatic but is noticeable and even my wife has made comment and I wouldn't consider myself predisposed but I am 46 so this is more to do with general aging than anything else but no doubt cycling doesn't help. Knowing this and your Toco-8 how long can you run it for. Does it need any time off? Do you think I could seriously benefit from it?

Also I am going to be starting a new cycle shortly of probably just Test Prop for 12-14 weeks and how would this work in with the Toco? Would a combo of Dermacrine, Toco and Endo running through cycle be of any real benefit?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can stay on the Toco-8 as long as you like. The study that showed the significant benefits for preventing hair loss was 5 months long. [with increasing benefits the longer supplementation was continued]

I think it would be a great idea to run the Toco-8 during the cycle. I don’t think the EndoAmp would do much during cycle since the high testosterone levels will antagonize and keep cortisol pretty low as is.

Dermacrine may be something to consider running with the Testosterone during cycle, as it tends to be easier on the hairline than T because it limits conversion to 5a-reduced hormones -- so maybe you could lower the dose of Test and find some balance with Dermacrine and suffer less hair loss.

-Pp
 
Ok thanks PP. One more ? on dosing. I was taking 2 scoops with my post workout shake. Do you have any input on this as to best time to take, amount etc?
 
access said:
Ok thanks PP. One more ? on dosing. I was taking 2 scoops with my post workout shake. Do you have any input on this as to best time to take, amount etc?
Click to expand...


PWO shake is fine, and is as good as anytime.

Remember, the new Toco-8 lasts twice as long so you only need 1 scoop per day.

-Pp
 
PP..I noticed your not selling the Test Recovery Stack as an item anymore? Any reason for this?
 
Thanks PP..very kind as was my fault for not searching a little harder. I just figured you had done away with this as a stack.
 
As promised I am posting my blood test results after running Nolva and PP's Test Recovery Stack for PCT after what was a fairly heavy cycle. I must say I am impressed. My Test levels almost a month after finishing PCT are at 635 ng/dL. This is compared to 315 ng/dL in March this year after an earlier cycle. I have not seen my test levels this high for some years in fact.

It seems very clear to me that the Test Recovery Stack played a very large part in elevating my serum test levels. I also ran Nolva in PCT and HCG on cycle. I know many guys advocate different ways to do PCT but for me this works and works exceptionally well and I will continue this same protocol now and should help me avoid having at some time in the future to do HRT.
 
access said:
As promised I am posting my blood test results after running Nolva and PP's Test Recovery Stack for PCT after what was a fairly heavy cycle. I must say I am impressed. My Test levels almost a month after finishing PCT are at 635 ng/dL. This is compared to 315 ng/dL in March this year after an earlier cycle. I have not seen my test levels this high for some years in fact.

It seems very clear to me that the Test Recovery Stack played a very large part in elevating my serum test levels. I also ran Nolva in PCT and HCG on cycle. I know many guys advocate different ways to do PCT but for me this works and works exceptionally well and I will continue this same protocol now and should help me avoid having at some time in the future to do HRT.
Click to expand...
pm me for discounts guys.
 
I used Sustain before and I recently got the test recovery stack but this new sustain alpha has a new smell and its almost unbearable? Did i get a bad bottle? Can I send it back for a new one? I barely used any of it because of the smell.
 
Some more results - after 4 weeks of PCT with Test Recovery Stack and Unleashed - LDL did not change at all (which it ususally does climb with my cycle) and the kicker is my HDL was up 50%!!!! Dropped my chol/HDL ratio significantly.

This and the fact that I felt like I was still on the whole time I was on PCT made me very happy!

My only concern was that free test was a little lower than I would have liked (even though I didn't feel like it was)... not sure as to why that would be with the products I was on. Any thoughts?
VW
 
Hey access, that was a REALLY heavy cycle if i recall. How much nolva did you run and how many weeks? Did you just take the PP stack exactly as directed and for the ~ 4 weeks it lasts?

Thanks and congrats and the recovery!
 
snowyk12 said:
I used Sustain before and I recently got the test recovery stack but this new sustain alpha has a new smell and its almost unbearable? Did i get a bad bottle? Can I send it back for a new one? I barely used any of it because of the smell.
Click to expand...

Snowyk, you got PM.

Thanks for postin up your results guys.

-Pp
 
Yes OneBreath it was heavy and what makes these results all the more impressive. I have used sustain once before for PCT and liked the results but it was not as clear cut as this time. I ran the whole recovery stack and clearly their is some synergy involved with doing it this way plus the new sustain as compared to the one I used previously with slightly different ingredients.

What was interesting was the fact that I had intended to only run a little Aromasin early on followed by Nolva. I actually started out this way but my libido was down severely and I thought I should jump on Sustain. I ordered and had in my hand very quickly but was about two weeks into Nolva at this stage when the order arrived and started Sustain immediately at this time. I finished 3 weeks of Nolva at 20mgs/day and ran the Sustain until was gone which was roughly three weeks after completing the Nolva. Originally I was going to do Nolva for 4 weeks but once I started the Sustain I was feeling much better and decided at that time to run the Nolva for 3 weeks only. Actually it was about 24 days in total in the end.

Everything else is also great excepting my LDL which is slightly high but of no concern. Just outisde normal range and this is normal for me most times. My HDL actually has improved slightly too.
 
Thanks Access! I just ordered the entire stack (i was just going with the sustain). I have been slacking and PCT starts this week so i'm actually going to end up almost like you starting it a tad late.

I have the aromasin too. Did you run that through the entire 24 days? I'm at least going to use it until my HCG treatment is finished.
 
OneBreath said:
Thanks Access! I just ordered the entire stack (i was just going with the sustain). I have been slacking and PCT starts this week so i'm actually going to end up almost like you starting it a tad late.

I have the aromasin too. Did you run that through the entire 24 days? I'm at least going to use it until my HCG treatment is finished.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would use it until the hCG is done. Did you run hCG throughout the whole cycle?

-Pp
 
I just ran the Aromasin first week into PCT at 10mgs/day. Used as a counter to any spike in estrogen.
 
Thanks access.

I didn't run HCG during the cycle. I am running it 1,000 iu M/W/F for the first 3 weeks of PCT. This was a protocol posted here a while back that i had planned on using. My next cycle i will probably run during cycle as now seems to be the standard advice.

So i'm thinking i should run the aromasin through this period.
 
HCG can cause a rise in estrogen and your likely to see this going into PCT anyway so way your doing then I would run it through PCT along with the HCG.

Running HCG on cycle is superior IMO but doing your way now will work.
 
I've heard so many differing approaches to HCG that i think its just going to come down to how my body reacts. I'll give it some thought. Maybe i'll start with 500 then go up depending on response. I thought 1,000 was pretty high too until galaxy was talking about 5,000 a few days ago. Damn.
 
OneBreath said:
I've heard so many differing approaches to HCG that i think its just going to come down to how my body reacts. I'll give it some thought. Maybe i'll start with 500 then go up depending on response. I thought 1,000 was pretty high too until galaxy was talking about 5,000 a few days ago. Damn.
Click to expand...

The longer you wait to use it, the more you need.

If you start it when the leydigs are receptive at the beginning of a cycle, you only need 250iu for maximum activity. However, if you wait 12-16 weeks you need atleast 1000iu several weeks in a row to get the maximum testosterone response.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
The longer you wait to use it, the more you need.

If you start it when the leydigs are receptive at the beginning of a cycle, you only need 250iu for maximum activity. However, if you wait 12-16 weeks you need atleast 1000iu several weeks in a row to get the maximum testosterone response.

-Pp
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's the most basic and logical approach i've heard.

So receptivity is a function of time? The longer the period of surpression the less receptive they become? If so that is why its so hard for guys that do really long cycles to recover? Or at least it takes them longer to recover? Thanks.
 
OneBreath said:
Thanks! That's the most basic and logical approach i've heard.

So receptivity is a function of time? The longer the period of surpression the less receptive they become? If so that is why its so hard for guys that do really long cycles to recover? Or at least it takes them longer to recover? Thanks.
Click to expand...


Yes, thats right.

Here is a great article on the topic -
Proper use of hCG with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids - AAS

-Pp
 
Great article. I have a much better understanding now. I won't do another cycle without running the 250iu twice per week protocol. Many thanks!
 
Stupid question- If you get a 5,000iu bottle of HCG and run it from week 2-10 of a ten week cycle, how do you split up the HCG? That is - this stuff is supposedly only good for 30 days once mixed and kept in the fridge. So do you mix half of it and then mix the other half later? Just want to be clear on this. Could always buy 2 bottles I guess.

Thanks in advance.
 
2evil said:
Stupid question- If you get a 5,000iu bottle of HCG and run it from week 2-10 of a ten week cycle, how do you split up the HCG? That is - this stuff is supposedly only good for 30 days once mixed and kept in the fridge. So do you mix half of it and then mix the other half later? Just want to be clear on this. Could always buy 2 bottles I guess.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Yeah you will have to waste some... and get two amps.

You COULD get away with just doing 500iu/week from week 6-9 and only buy one amp.

-Pp
 
you can not get better pct then pp products. I think if you have not tried them at least once you owe it to yourself to give them a shot.

Even if its just adding in sustain alpha to the reg pct you already do. Pm me for a discount and advice.
 
I'm a nooby at bodybuilding but from what i've been reading your products seem pretty solid PP.

I see that testicles sensitivity to LH and FSH is important to restart testo production. I'm thinking in buying toco 8 and S.aplha, but i'm worried about something: If i get the testicles to sensitive won't it supress LH production? and then when i stop the toco 8, will my testis be less sensitive? if so, won't they produce less testo since there is also less LH and they are not as sensitive anymore?

Sry for gramatical errors.

thanks, Cheers!
thanks
 
zossima said:
I'm a nooby at bodybuilding but from what i've been reading your products seem pretty solid PP.

I see that testicles sensitivity to LH and FSH is important to restart testo production. I'm thinking in buying toco 8 and S.aplha, but i'm worried about something: If i get the testicles to sensitive won't it supress LH production? and then when i stop the toco 8, will my testis be less sensitive? if so, won't they produce less testo since there is also less LH and they are not as sensitive anymore?

Sry for gramatical errors.

thanks, Cheers!
thanks
Click to expand...


Toco-8 will reduce your requirement for LH, so you will need less LH to produce the same amount of testosterone. (which is a good thing)

Now, Toco-8 will probably keep T levels around the same unless you use a LH booster such as Sustain Alpha. (that’s where the synergy comes in)

Your testes are going to maintain their sensitivity from Toco-8 for quite some time… just checkout the blood tests at the beginning of this thread. (the guy had increased T levels and lower LH levels 4 weeks after dropping Toco-8)

-Eric
 
Primordial Performance said:
We just got some blood test results back from a very satisfied customer.

The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle. His levels where at 289ng/dl.

For PCT I instructed him to use Sustain Alpha with Toco-8. He didn’t expect to get his T levels past 300ng/dl since he had had low T level for so long. After the cycle, he ran the PCT for 30 days, then got his hormones values tested 30 days after PCT.

After PCT, his results came back with the highest levels of Testosterone he had in years --782 ng/dl. You will also notice a reduction in LH/FSH. This shows that his testes where sensitized to the effects of the LH/FSH and where able to make more testosterone with less stimulation. Toco-8 helps make the testes more sensitive to LH/FSH – testicular sensitivity is key.

We sell the Testosterone Recovery Stack which includes Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp (30 day supply). This is a complete, legal, PCT stack for only $119.99

You can purchase this stack here - www.primordialperformance.com

Thanks guys.

-Pp
Click to expand...



BTW, anyone who wants to run blood test before a cycle and after PCT we are open to work with. (We can supply blood tests with the purchase of the TRS)

We just ask that you have been off any and all cycles for atleast 3 months and have some general history on the board.

-Eric
 
Good deal just ordered the TRS. awsome price. Ive ran the sustain for my last PCT, but im doing the whole TRS this time. also ordered acouple extra Toco 8's to do during cycle to see if it helps the hair.
 
Will this TRS help with Liver Values or should I use something else?

Had a cholesterol test last week and the doctor said my LDL's were too high and the panel looked like I was on steroids...

I have to retake the blood test in 6 weeks.

I was on 1T-Tren & OT. I have started my PCT with Toco 8 & Suatain will start Endo Amp in 2 weeks.

Thanks
 
bk2012 said:
Will this TRS help with Liver Values or should I use something else?

Had a cholesterol test last week and the doctor said my LDL's were too high and the panel looked like I was on steroids...

I have to retake the blood test in 6 weeks.

I was on 1T-Tren & OT. I have started my PCT with Toco 8 & Suatain will start Endo Amp in 2 weeks.

Thanks
Click to expand...

TRS won't help liver values. I would suggest our Liver Juice
 
Rekrul said:
Eric,

Whats your rationale for not using Aromasin during PCT? I'm currently using the Test recovery stack after a 7 week prop/var cycle as well as unleashed. I'm debating on whether to add nolva, clomid or aromasin at the moment. If you could help me out.
Click to expand...

Two main problems with aromasin in PCT -

1. Its a steroid. that means its either going to directly (albeit only partly) inhibit the hypothalmus from releasing LH & FSH, or its going to act as an anti-androgen which can cause other problems.

2. Its going to reduce estrogen to the point where it will negatively effect blood lipids, libido and general health.

I never recommend steroid AI's during PCT unless you are running a heavy dose of HCG, which you should have ran during the cycle anyway.

-Eric
 
Primordial Performance said:
Two main problems with aromasin in PCT -

1. Its a steroid. that means its either going to directly (albeit only partly) inhibit the hypothalmus from releasing LH & FSH, or its going to act as an anti-androgen which can cause other problems.

2. Its going to reduce estrogen to the point where it will negatively effect blood lipids, libido and general health.

I never recommend steroid AI's during PCT unless you are running a heavy dose of HCG, which you should have ran during the cycle anyway.

-Eric
Click to expand...
I would think that when using it with the TRS it would negate most of not all of these though?
 
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