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Femera/letro for progesterone gyno
- Thread starter mookie
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Mr.X
Guest
mookie said:
Oh it works, and it works well
letrozole is the ULTIMATE gyno killer bro. 
M
Mr.X
Guest
AhMadKooL said:
yup, check out mookie's post, it helped him
M
Mr.X
Guest
AhMadKooL said:
From experience, letrozole does help with progesterone gyno.
mookie already had the gyno from what I understand.
mookie
New member
Yeah i had it from npp was on dostinex and proviron during cycle when I got gyno it happen fast stop the npp and statred femera with the dostinex it worked great. I have done sus twice test cyp, dbol, never had any gyno problems I even did deca once before the npp so I thought I would have no problems I guess you never know.Mr.X said:From experience, letrozole does help with progesterone gyno.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
Gyno is estrogen dependant. Progesterone can amplify the effects of estrogen, but if you have no estrogen, you have no gyno.
Letrozole lowers estrogen levels to basically 0, and lowers progesterone levels by almost half (38%?) if I recall...
Letrozole lowers estrogen levels to basically 0, and lowers progesterone levels by almost half (38%?) if I recall...
M
Mr.X
Guest
anthony roberts said:
Letrozole is the most powerful anti-E (AI) on the market, so it's been a god send for most as a gyno cure.
I've tried, arimidex, aromasin, and letrozole (femara), nothing comapres to letro. macrophage69alpha
New member
most powerful does not mean best.
a number of people on the forums have used either aromasin or AIFM to eliminate gyno, both oestrogenic and progestenic.
a number of people on the forums have used either aromasin or AIFM to eliminate gyno, both oestrogenic and progestenic.
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Mr.X
Guest
Having worked with many people on their gyno treatment, I can say from experience - 1st hand- that nothing compares to letrozole for gyno treatment or to keep bloat down. Aromasin is weak compared to letrozole when you're trying to get rid of gyno.
macrophage69alpha
New member
Not really and since you are not all that familiar with aromasin and have generally not reccomended it. Pretty sure that most, if not all, of those people never tried aromasin before.
yes, letrozole is effective, no one is arguing that but its also quite harsh.
Aromasin and AIFM are both quite effective for gyno reduction and prevention
yes, letrozole is effective, no one is arguing that but its also quite harsh.
Aromasin and AIFM are both quite effective for gyno reduction and prevention
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Mr.X
Guest
Aromasin is weak, that's why I don't recommend it - it has nothing to do with familiarity. It doesn't do anything for gyno with most people. I've worked with 100s of people, and the product of choice is letrozole.
I recommend effective treatments, not just some random BS read in a study. Letrozole works, it's tried and proven to cure gyno.
I recommend effective treatments, not just some random BS read in a study. Letrozole works, it's tried and proven to cure gyno.
macrophage69alpha
New member
aromasin is a tried and true gyno cure.
its not weak and its foolish of you to say so. Especially after you have constantly reccomend arimidex which is WEAK.
its not weak and its foolish of you to say so. Especially after you have constantly reccomend arimidex which is WEAK.
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Mr.X
Guest
Aromasin is not tried and true, most people wont have any help with their gyno while on aromasin. I don't sit there and read studies hoping things will come true - I'm out there working with real people, real bodybuilders and steroid users.
Letrozole is far more superior at curing gyno then aromasin. Aromasin is weak and overrated.
Letrozole is far more superior at curing gyno then aromasin. Aromasin is weak and overrated.
macrophage69alpha
New member
you are amusing. wont waste time arguing with you.
aromasin is effective, letro is as well.
aromasin is effective, letro is as well.
M
Mr.X
Guest
I know, I'm a real cut up. Letrozole is the best cure for gyno and the most powerful anti-E (AI) on the market. Aromasin is a weak cure for gyno, enough said...I'm tired of repeating this.
RippedRule
New member
From my experience...
I had bad gyno after a test cycle...2 hard lumps under each nip - very puffy/sore...
I took dostinex/letro/and nolva..The dostinex was just to keep my sex drive up because I was off cycle. I got rid of 90% of the gyno.
I currently started a test cycle and have been running letro...No shit - it has actually kept bloat off of me, and zero signs of gyno. I actually feel like the very tiny lumps are going away from my previous cycle!
Letro does work wonders, no doubt..
I had bad gyno after a test cycle...2 hard lumps under each nip - very puffy/sore...
I took dostinex/letro/and nolva..The dostinex was just to keep my sex drive up because I was off cycle. I got rid of 90% of the gyno.
I currently started a test cycle and have been running letro...No shit - it has actually kept bloat off of me, and zero signs of gyno. I actually feel like the very tiny lumps are going away from my previous cycle!
Letro does work wonders, no doubt..
macrophage69alpha
New member
yes. as does letro as does AIFM.
whether they will work in a particular case depends on a lot of factors. Typically the longer the gyno has been present and the more severe the mass and the exapansion of tendrous fibrils, they less effective they will be- at least in the short term.
whether they will work in a particular case depends on a lot of factors. Typically the longer the gyno has been present and the more severe the mass and the exapansion of tendrous fibrils, they less effective they will be- at least in the short term.
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Mr.X
Guest
mookie said:
Letrozole does help with progesterone gyno.
Whats the recomended dose of aromasin to help with a little face bloat, no gyno issues, maybe a tad in the fat category, a TAD......Basically to enhance fat burning and knock out prog while on NPP and drol......i would think the dose could be quite low for just that?
Gonna take marcia puriens also (sp).
wont take letro, it wrecks lipid where ad aromasin is gentle...and letro destroys joints and sex drive.....i dont need the shit THAT bad...!
Gonna take marcia puriens also (sp).
wont take letro, it wrecks lipid where ad aromasin is gentle...and letro destroys joints and sex drive.....i dont need the shit THAT bad...!
anthony roberts said:
Thank you for saying this! Ive said for awhile that gyno is exacerbate by prog levels rising, but still needs estro (thats why i started feel my first estro problem sides when i combined deca/test/dbol).
People always say "i never got gyno from test, but when i added deca, bam"....same here, but it wasnt specifically from the deca........deca in itself rarely will cause gyno but when combined with an aromatizing drug......tits.
Use deca folks....just run AIs if you run test with it.
yamamoto
New member
I got flamed at another forum for suggesting letro + nolva to a guy with gyno. Everyone were convinced that AI´s are more dangerous than any AAS and will totally destroy you heart and blood vessels (not sure of the english word.... ) in time. The long-term sides were very deadly and there was a high probability to develop severe heart problems when you get older.
This is just what I was told, I have read some about this but nothing that ever sounded this drastic. They were even convinced that even if you stay of letro half the year you would get deadly sides..
What do you guys think?
To me letro sounds like a blessing, I am going to run it for my next cycles and well... I hope that these guys are wrong.
This is just what I was told, I have read some about this but nothing that ever sounded this drastic. They were even convinced that even if you stay of letro half the year you would get deadly sides..
What do you guys think?
To me letro sounds like a blessing, I am going to run it for my next cycles and well... I hope that these guys are wrong.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
Does Letro lower IGF levels the way Arimidex has been accused of doing???
-BRR
-BRR
RippedRule
New member
im not positive on this but im pretty sure gyno surgery isn't all peachy once it's over. I read somewhere that your pecs will have dimples in them or perhaps not always look "normal" Mr. X or someone with more knowledge can probably elaborate more on this...
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Mr.X
Guest
RippedRule said:
I've been unfortunate enough to have gyno surgery, and I am left with life-long scarring. Gyno surgery should be avoided, unless absolutely necessary.
M
Mr.X
Guest
yamamoto said:
You should tell them that steroids put a lot of pressure on the heart, kidneys and liver. Bad lipid levels are common with steroid users, AIs (anti-Es) or not. Blood pressure problems are a huge health hazard.
Listen, let them take their own path; if they want to go under the knife, get possible life long scarring and pay $6k - that's up to them. Oh btw, if the gland isn't removed during the gyno surgery (as it usually isn't), the gyno can come back. Some people have to go under the knife multiple times because they were stupid enough not to just use some letrozole or nolvadex.
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natty4life
Guest
Bigreds said:
Is this true ? If so how are you going to make any gain's[/QUOTE]
IMHO - low or no Estrogen levels hindering gains is one of the most permissable "myths" around............
I've taken letro during all my cycles, and I have NEVER noticed any hidering of gains. Only side effect i notice is NO gyno, and no sign of water retention.
i think Letro is a God-sent.....................makes other AI's look like "candy"
Big Rick Rock
istrator
natty4life said:
IMHO - low or no Estrogen levels hindering gains is one of the most permissable "myths" around............
I've taken letro during all my cycles, and I have NEVER noticed any hidering of gains. Only side effect i notice is NO gyno, and no sign of water retention.
i think Letro is a God-sent.....................makes other AI's look like "candy"[/QUOTE]
How about trouble getting a boner???.... Test will make you horney but you need the help of Estrogen to work the mechanics...
+ The water retention cause by Estrogen and the increased strength that comes from it is a factored aswel. I have done d-bol with and without using Anti-E's . I can tell you from personal experience that the D-bol without any Anti-E use got me bigger and stronger quicker than while using Anti-Es.
-BRR
M
Mr.X
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
You're thinking of Nolvadex, which I've said before wont hinder gains due to lower IGF levels - that was a theory floated by Dan Duchaine.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
Mr.X said:
Hmmm.....
I was under the impression that A-dex lowered IGF leves while Aromasin actually increased them. I had no idea about Letro.
-BRR
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natty4life
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
Letro is supposed to KILL your libido, but I've never had that problem. Only thing I can say is my sex "drive" is a little more under control while on Letro..............but when the time comes, - it's all-systems-go
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M
Mr.X
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
Here is what I wrote about nolvadex, I couldn't find the link at first. This is a common myth that spread like fire - you got guys parroting it like crazy saying they got 'reduced' gains on nolvadex.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6177278&postcount=13
hankes64
New member
Estrogen helps with natural IGF-1 levels and lubrication of joints so having it at 0 is not a good idea, you want it around normal as you can get it.
Also, progesterone does not work unless there is estrogen present, so using a SERM that targets the glands like tamoxifen then you will be fine
Also, progesterone does not work unless there is estrogen present, so using a SERM that targets the glands like tamoxifen then you will be fine
M
Mr.X
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
Speaking from experience, I haven't seen a loss of gains on letrozole - minus the bloat of course
. Even people who I've helped get rid of their gyno with higher letro dosages, still had good results on their cycles. If there is a negative IGF effect, it would be minor, as many users have gotten great results with letrozole.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
BTW-
I do think that Anti Estrogens are a bit overated as far a BB goes. Before the year 2000 People were doing just fine using Proviron, Masteron and Nolvadex... Now we have to sit here and debate about it? There have been NO new steroids made since what 1960's... Where did this new need for Anti-Estros arise??? I was here on this forum back in 2000 and I remember people where doing just fine using Nolvadex to keep from getting Gyno and drinking a lot of water to keep from getting bloated... Why do we now NEED new drugs to deal with the same steroids our granparents used???
-BRR
I do think that Anti Estrogens are a bit overated as far a BB goes. Before the year 2000 People were doing just fine using Proviron, Masteron and Nolvadex... Now we have to sit here and debate about it? There have been NO new steroids made since what 1960's... Where did this new need for Anti-Estros arise??? I was here on this forum back in 2000 and I remember people where doing just fine using Nolvadex to keep from getting Gyno and drinking a lot of water to keep from getting bloated... Why do we now NEED new drugs to deal with the same steroids our granparents used???
-BRR
macrophage69alpha
New member
its true that using 2 dht derivatives will help many people avoid gyno- it will also obliterate a lot of peoples hair. Nolva does not work with progestins, since many of the newer drugs in use are progestins.. its an issue....
people got wicked gyno before... hence the gyno specialist practices that sprung up in the late eighties and early nineties and the number of people using steroids has greatly increased.
though agree that DHT decreases ER expression, which can help with bloat and gyno.
people got wicked gyno before... hence the gyno specialist practices that sprung up in the late eighties and early nineties and the number of people using steroids has greatly increased.
though agree that DHT decreases ER expression, which can help with bloat and gyno.
M
Mr.X
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
IMO, Anti Estrogens were too little too late. There are many bodybuilders back in the day who had hypertension and bad gyno cases. I've trained with 4 guys who at least had 1 gyno surgery per person, and I've personally had 2 gyno surgeries. All from the "old-school" ways of no anti-Es. When I started training and cycling, it was all about the cycles...little was known about anti-Es. Thus, I developed my first case of gyno; had surgery...only to have another case of gyno spring up. This is all due to the lack of anti-Es on the market at the time and the lack of knowledge.
I think Anti-Es are crucial to cycles and should never be overlooked.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
macrophage69alpha said:
You said "newer drugs in use" what are we talking about exacly? As far as I can tell (aside from the Prohormone Fad) There are no new anabolic steroids to speak of...
Well... You were here back in the day when Arimidex was $10 per 1mg pill... How many people were really getting a type Gyno that Nolvadex couldn't cure???
-BRR
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natty4life
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
Oh, man................don't even remind me of the old price for Arimidex tabs................it was REDICULOUS.....
I've done cycles in the past with DBol/Test, etc and no AI.
I drank 2+ gallons of water/day - did cardio every day - and ate foods with no added sodium, etc.
I can say that the bloat was minimal, but it was a pain in the ass cause eve one cheat meal/week would bloat me for 2 days................
macrophage69alpha
New member
Big Rick Rock said:
trenbolone
t-bol
EQ- pretty much since 50mg/ml was all that was around
macrophage69alpha
New member
in truth most cycles were test, dbol and deca.
while drol, winnie and var were in use, there use was not as prevalent as now
while drol, winnie and var were in use, there use was not as prevalent as now
Big Rick Rock
istrator
macrophage69alpha said:
macrophage69alpha said:
None of those sound like "newer drugs" They are the same old steroids. Maybe they are being used in higher dosages? I don't know if dosages have changed much. I mean Anadrol has always come in 50mg caps since the begining. There were guys taking 2-3 Caps of Anadrol50 per day.
Trenbolone has been in use for many years. I remember when Animal was selling the conversion kits and people were making Tren Ace in their kitchens (9yrs(?) after Negma discontinued "Parabolan"(Tren H) ). The kits came around at least a couple of years before Arimidex became widely used by BBers... I don't remember a lot of guys reporting Gyno or water rentention from using Tren. At least not to the degree of say Anadrol. Most guys who were having a hard time due to progesterone side effects where using a little Winny to help out.
I guess my point is that I don't understand why we suddenly have to have these new Anti-e/p... All of the Anchilaries you and Mr.X mention in your posts(mostly being used by BBer over the last 4yrs) are substances meant to fight side effects from drugs that have been around since the 1960's... So we have 40yrs(at least) of use without Anti-E/Ps. 40yrs of Steroid use where BBers, pro and amateur alike have been using the same Steroids we use today without using Aromasin or Letrozole. That whole time there have been many Pro BBers who have stayed on gear year-round.
When I first got started on EF (2000) there was nothing else but Nolvadex, Proviron and Masterone to fight Estrogen. Winny if you where prone to Progesterone sides and Clomid, HCG for PCT... Guys were doing just fine with what we had, we were building monsters and we had IFBB competitions every year. Why now do we have this emergency need for Anti-Es where we have to have this new shit to put in/on our bodies?
I just don't see how the Steroids we used have changed so much, that we would need new drugs to fight the same side effects.
-BRR
Well BRR as someone who was there I can tell you that just because we didn't use anti-e's 20 years ago doesn't mean we didn't need them. Most people blew up like balloons, got bloody noses when they trained, and grew tits at an alarming rate. I agree that the streroids are still steroids. But we can now use them, more of them, and be much safer doing it because of AI's and other ancillaries.
macrophage69alpha
New member
in reality very few people were using compounds other than test, dbol and deca. Only in the last maybe 5-6 years has there been an explosion in the availability of these other drugs. sure they were used previously, just not commonly. And there were a lot more fakes than real stuff.
the chinese and russians (to a lesser extent) changed all this.
though as ulter mentioned these issues have always been around, they are just talked about openly now. (anonymity provides great freedom of information)
the chinese and russians (to a lesser extent) changed all this.
though as ulter mentioned these issues have always been around, they are just talked about openly now. (anonymity provides great freedom of information)
macrophage69alpha
New member
mendo said:
no on the first, yes on the second.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
Ulter said:
As somebody who has been there, how wide spread would you say these problems were?
Seems like Steroids have always had a small cult following. If a major part of that group was having these side effects. I don't see anabolic use having been continued thru the decades the way it has.
Going into the 80's steroids where really popular, and even after they became criminalized in 1991, people continued taking them at the risk of being arrested. People still wanted them that bad... I don't think the number of people affected was large enough to make an impact, do you?
If we go 10yrs back from your twenty. @ the 1976 Mr.O There were already some big mofos competing for the Olympia every year. Some of those guys where already ON year round...
http://www.bodybuildbid.com/articles/mrolympia/olympgal.html
For every guy on that page there were already Millions of others taking Juice.
-BRR
macrophage69alpha
New member
not really, you perceptions of the steroid culture of the 70's and 80's is not accurate. There were pockets of bodybuilding users and pro-athletes. Steroid use is significantly greater now than its ever been. The internet really revolutionized and expanded the steroid culture.
and yes, side effects were quite common among those that did use. they were just considered a reasonable cost.
and yes, side effects were quite common among those that did use. they were just considered a reasonable cost.
M
Mr.X
Guest
bdavester said:
In general, the starter dose is 1.25mgs ED for gyno cures, but it varies on your possible cycle and gyno problem. To prevent bloat, it depends on your cycle - again, you can easily take .5mgs of letro ED and be very dry
M
Mr.X
Guest
Big Rick Rock said:
Most PROs and top bodybuilders have/had great genetics. This usually means less estrogen receptors then most people; most of these guys are naturally lean and big to start off. Just look at Arnold, he didn't have gyno problems, but you have another 10,000 in his gym who probably did.
I've seen this with my own eyes, guys jumping on cycles - getting gyno, BP problems etc... - and they kept on cycling. A lot of them ended up with gyno that they could only get rid of with surgery (no letrozole back then). Just because you keep having people jumping on cycles in the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s, it doesn't mean they were doing them right. Hell, probably 50% of steroid users are one time newbies who do some dbol, get gyno and quit.
Ok so I think I have mild gyno and I have a source to get me free Femara. I have had it for about 5months from a Pro Hormone OTC. I did PCT and everything. My ? is would femara work on my mild gyno, if so how long would I need to do it for. What would be the dose? And any s/e that I might get from it. I am 5 '9 175lbs. Thanks guys
instead of arguing why don't you simply list the facts? you claim to have treated 100's of people but all you can say is letro is the best. why not say letro is the best because....... yes, it is true that letrozole is the most potent ancillarie on the market to date but that does not necessarily mean that letro should always be the first choice. below are some FACTS that people should consider when looking for an anti-estrogen med.
1) NOLVADEX should always be used as a first resort/preventitive measure against gyno. this is because nolv does not prevent estrogen build-up in the body but only in certain receptors such as the nipples. note; maintaining some estrogen is critical for proper muscle growth. this is why nolv should be the first resort.
2)ANASTROZOLE should be used if nolvadex is not effective. this is because anastrozole is the next most potent next to nolv. anastrozole has been proven to reduce estrogen in the body by as much as 50%
3)EXEMESTANE should be used only when nolv and anastrozole have been proven to be ineffective. exemestane has been proven to reduce estrogen build-up by as much as 85%
4)LETROZOLE being so potent should only be used as a last resort. this is because letro is proven to reduce estrogen build-up by a staggering 98%. now this is good if you already have a gyno situation that will not subside with the use of the others i have already mentioned. letro is not good as a preventitive measure as it rids the body of nearly all its estrogen. and like i said earlier, a certain amount of estrogen (around 35-40%) is crutial for proper muscle growth.
so here you have the FACTS! use them to your advantage. and remember, everybody is different so be sure to do research.
please note: nolvadex should not be used with 19nors such as deca. progesterone is something entirely different than estrogen. for this one should look into cabaser or bromocriptine.
