can we shed some light on cardio for fat burning?

[graciekiller]

I just read through a recent thread about when would be best to do cardio and there seems to be all kinds of opinions. Maybe we can discuss some of them here?

What is better for fat burning>? slow long cardio or HIIT cardio?

Is a calorie burned the same no matter how you do it? Sleeping, running, walking, swimming?

 

[Stryker1992]

I just read through a recent thread about when would be best to do cardio and there seems to be all kinds of opinions. Maybe we can discuss some of them here?

What is better for fat burning>? slow long cardio or HIIT cardio?

Is a calorie burned the same no matter how you do it? Sleeping, running, walking, swimming?

It is all based on the krebs cycle and energy sources. In terms of burning fat you want to remain in an aerobic burning zone usually between the 55 to 70 % range of you maximal heart rate. This allows your body to utilize energy from the krebs cycle...based more on "fat" as opposed to phosphocreatine stores or anaerboic glycolysis...

I suggest getting a heart rate monitor is you are serious....

 

[Nelson Montana]

It is all based on the krebs cycle and energy sources. In terms of burning fat you want to remain in an aerobic burning zone usually between the 55 to 70 % range of you maximal heart rate. This allows your body to utilize energy from the krebs cycle...based more on "fat" as opposed to phosphocreatine stores or anaerboic glycolysis...

I suggest getting a heart rate monitor is you are serious....

That is correct -- according to the book. But in my experience (which is over several decades of studying this stuff) I've found it to be untrue in the real world.

There is ZERO evidence that this is the case. It is something that is pure speculation and parroted by "personal training" organizations.

One thing is certain. Burning more calories than you ingest will make you lose weight. The key is to maintain as much muscle while you do it. And aerobics burn muscle.

 

[Stryker1992]

That is correct -- according to the book. But in my experience (which is over several decades of studying this stuff) I've found it to be untrue in the real world.

There is ZERO evidence that this is the case. It is something that is pure speculation and parroted by "personal training" organizations.

One thing is certain. Burning more calories than you ingest will make you lose weight. The key is to maintain as much muscle while you do it. And aerobics burn muscle.

Bro...I am not sure what to say but every physiology course I took discussed it this way. I did not get this from a personal trainer manual....

I do think calories in versus calories out completely matters but I know professional athletes...endurance athletes train on these principles i.e. runners, bikers, etc. You can also train your body to increase lactate threshold and utilize sodium bicarbonate buffering to increase anaerobic glycolysis and short duration high intensity output. I have done it.

 

[graciekiller]

. You can also train your body to increase lactate threshold and utilize sodium bicarbonate buffering to increase anaerobic glycolysis and short duration high intensity output. I have done it.

I am really intrigued by this. Can you point to me or link me somewhere where I can read upon this? Ive always gone by the old school "no pain no gain" theory when it comes to increasing anaerobic levels especially with grappling. Im wondering if there are other ways to increase this rather than going til you puke. I hope that made sense.

 

[RADAR]

morning cardio on an empty stomach 10 hrs after your last meal has always worked for me, the body has no choice but to dip into fat stores for fuel and does a hatchett job on body fat!

Tried and proven for over 35 yrs!

 

[stevesmi]

I just cut 2% body fat in 3 weeks. lost about 7.5 pounds.

what I did was reduce my food portions, and I did some light cardio... half mile every other day.

the key though is reduction in food intake and what you eat as well.

to answer your question I would say long, slow, distance will burn away fat and muscle the best. as a former endurance runner i would run 35-45 miles per week. I was 6% body fat, and just 135 pounds at my peak.. I also was on a very very strict catabolic diet.

 

[mini_hulk]

I am really intrigued by this. Can you point to me or link me somewhere where I can read upon this? Ive always gone by the old school "no pain no gain" theory when it comes to increasing anaerobic levels especially with grappling. Im wondering if there are other ways to increase this rather than going til you puke. I hope that made sense.

]
Some support on bicarbonate buffering and acid-base balance.

 

[gymjunkie09]

morning cardio on an empty stomach 10 hrs after your last meal has always worked for me, the body has no choice but to dip into fat stores for fuel and does a hatchett job on body fat!

Tried and proven for over 35 yrs!

this, I suggest just focusing on weight training and diet first and when results stall out then throw 2-4 days 30min a.m. fasted cardio in. And decrease calories and increase cardio as needed until you reach your goal. The less cardio the better if you care about maintaining muscle mass, cutting slowly is the best way to cut from my experience

 

[CSB]

interesting

heres my 2 cents

when i diet down i use cardio, usually moderate cardio in the am heartrate 120-135bpm 45-50min long, usually done fasted

it works well for me, i am on carbs though although low carbs 30g-140g depending on the day

now its a hotly debated subject,cardio , gurus, like chris aceto who has assisted the likes of jay cutler etc does not like cardio and believes in diet and weight training alone, that said many of his athletes use cardio, and if he feels its needed he suggests fasted cardio 45min moderate intensity

he once mentioned, when arnold was asked if he did cardio, arnold basically just said no, why lol


and i think there in lies the answer , dial in your diet and weight training, and use whatever cardio you please to ASSIST your fatloss from there , how much, when , fasted, not fasted i think is largely dependent on ones diet, carb based approach then i think HITT or long distance both beneficial, if no carb keto style, then i back low duration low intensity

 

[Zyglamail]

Is a calorie burned the same no matter how you do it? Sleeping, running, walking, swimming?

Absolutely NOT! I can tell you from personal experience that HIIT/ crossfit/tabata style cardio will burn WAY more fat than standard slow cardio.

If your doing the old school slow cardio, fasted empty stomach is best. The energy demands are low and you body can pull stores from fat etc.

For HIIT/crossfit/tabata you generally have to do it at least a couple hours after eating, you will likely puke if you do it on a full stomach.

The key to HIIT/crossfit/tabata style cardio is called EPOC (Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption) and its the phenominon that after extremly hard cardio activity you body will continue to burn calories for a good 12-24 hours AFTER your workout.

On a pur calories burned during a workout comparison slow cardio appears to burn just a tad more, but in practice it doesnt hold a candle to Epoc inducing cardio.

So, why dont more people do it? ITS HARD! You will not get the benefits if you dont drive hard. Also because your driving yourself so hard it can be detrimental to other goals and it does put a systemic demand on your system that will invariably require more calories be consumed.

Personally when I started doing cf style cardio I quickly overtrained (took about 6 weeks) at which point I had to step back and monitor my food intake. After adding in approx 1000 cals a day to my diet things everything was fine and the fat started to melt off.

 

[Judo Tom]

zyg nailed it..

again am = light cardio = good results + mental benefits of training early and the positives of being up early and accomplishing something
intense metabolic conditioning / hiit / tabata / crossfit should be done in the pm or after a few meals = great results due to EPOC and for athletes the conditioning benefit is 10x over lsd cardio

gracie if you need some exercise recommendations to improve anaerobic conditioning and your ability to deal w/ lactic acid try some of these.. start w/ the tabata interval which is 20 sec work / 10 sec rest for 4 mins

180 frog jumps or jump squats
burpees
mat crawls
bear crawls
'weighted' bear crawls - have partner hold gi collar while laying flat on ground
broad jumps
burpee box jumps
burpee pull ups
jumping pull ups

those will get you smoked, ripped and be able to 'fight' / compete / whatever for a long time with no problem

 

[LetsGrow]

Morning cardio empty stomach (do take like half a scoop of protein powder as this will help get your body out of catabolism in the am and also kickstart your metabolism which will help burn more). Like mentioned above medium intensity works well, interval training seems to work best and will help allow maximum muscle retention. This is what has worked well for me and a lot of others I know but I am sure some people will disagree with me. Just my .02

 

[RADAR]

Morning cardio empty stomach (do take like half a scoop of protein powder as this will help get your body out of catabolism in the am and also kickstart your metabolism which will help burn more). Like mentioned above medium intensity works well, interval training seems to work best and will help allow maximum muscle retention. This is what has worked well for me and a lot of others I know but I am sure some people will disagree with me. Just my .02

Well different strokes for different folks, My Fasted cardio starts out med and when i am warmed up i blast it all out until i feel i need to go slow again,after i feel like i'm good i hit another full out blast ,several times durig cardio,and immediately after getting home i Hammer my body with a big hi calorie ,Protein shake ,it's all about getting the metabolism revved up so when you're not working out your body is still burning fat all day!
But that doesn't give you an excuse to pig out,your diet must be clean with 6-7 smaller portion of meals every 2-3 hrs this keeps your metabolism up so everything works in harmony.

 

[on_a_mission2day]

Well different strokes for different folks, My Fasted cardio starts out med and when i am warmed up i blast it all out until i feel i need to go slow again,after i feel like i'm good i hit another full out blast ,several times durig cardio,and immediately after getting home i Hammer my body with a big hi calorie ,Protein shake ,it's all about getting the metabolism revved up so when you're not working out your body is still burning fat all day!
But that doesn't give you an excuse to pig out,your diet must be clean with 6-7 smaller portion of meals every 2-3 hrs this keeps your metabolism up so everything works in harmony.

Great advice from Radar....been doing it myself and can see the benefits already

 

[graciekiller]

awesome responses! Thanks for all the input. This is exactly the kinda things I wanted to hear/read.

 

[deejleos]

3 times a week cardio in morning for 15-20min (steady jog) has worked great for me


Sent from my iPhone punk!

 

[graciekiller]

this is my situation. about 6x's a week I would consider myself to do about 1-2 hours of HIIT cardio via grappling/wrestling/sparring and lots of anaerobic cardio. I have no idea how much calories is burnt, but I would assume a decent amount. With that in mind, should I add some slow cardio still, in the mornings? Yes, I want to melt fat off, but keep in mind I am NOT a bodybuilder. Is it possible that consuming too little calories to fuel my day, could hinder the fat burning with the amount of training I do?

Sorry for all the questions, its just that I read SOOOO much and hear sooo much about what cardio is best. I would much rather ask here where there are people who have real world experience.

 

[Stryker1992]

I am really intrigued by this. Can you point to me or link me somewhere where I can read upon this? Ive always gone by the old school "no pain no gain" theory when it comes to increasing anaerobic levels especially with grappling. Im wondering if there are other ways to increase this rather than going til you puke. I hope that made sense.

Interval training bro....you do repeated bursts of high intensity supramaximal output followed by a few minutes of recovery then repeated. I do things like 15-30 seconds all out then anywhere from 45 seconds to 2 minutes of rest.....

15 all out45....15...45...15...45

you get the idea.

I just started this for a boxing match I got coming. I will then increase my all out intervals to 30 seconds..with two minutes of recovery then start to lower my recovery time down between intervals...

 

[Stryker1992]

I will be honest I do not get hung up on the whole morning..empty stomach etc..etc. I have been a triathlete for years and I have to train when I can. I have to compete when the gun goes off therefore I do not super-impose a time schedule. I have to work etc. When I train during the summer I may do it during the heat of the day intentionally. I may train with my mouth guard in to disrupt breathing and improve cardio..there are a lot of ways to increase cv performance that do not require a "train now" approach.

 

[Judo Tom]

gracie if you have not read up on tabata start there and then start to think about the intervals that make sense.. do some research and then try to mimic your training towards your competition.

ex for judo research has shown that the work/rest ration is on average 2:1 so great for tabata.. but not every burst of work will be 20 sec.. some will be 10, 5, 30 seconds.. so you/me need to do intervals for these intervals. also matches are 5 mins at the national level but with stop/starts can take up to 7-8mins easy.. but the average match length is 3 mins

so it depends on how in depth and technical you want to get..

i will say that something like 4 rounds of 4 minute tabata 20/10 intervals with 1 min rest between rounds will very quickly improve your conditioning.. again burpee box jumps or weighted burpees are two of my favorites

oh wrestling/judo done at a high level intensity w/ lots of sparring and fast paced drilling can easily burn 1000 calories per hour.. bjj/striking can as well

hope this helps

 

[ledhead]

Absolutely NOT! I can tell you from personal experience that HIIT/ crossfit/tabata style cardio will burn WAY more fat than standard slow cardio.

If your doing the old school slow cardio, fasted empty stomach is best. The energy demands are low and you body can pull stores from fat etc.

For HIIT/crossfit/tabata you generally have to do it at least a couple hours after eating, you will likely puke if you do it on a full stomach.

The key to HIIT/crossfit/tabata style cardio is called EPOC (Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption) and its the phenominon that after extremly hard cardio activity you body will continue to burn calories for a good 12-24 hours AFTER your workout.

On a pur calories burned during a workout comparison slow cardio appears to burn just a tad more, but in practice it doesnt hold a candle to Epoc inducing cardio.

So, why dont more people do it? ITS HARD! You will not get the benefits if you dont drive hard. Also because your driving yourself so hard it can be detrimental to other goals and it does put a systemic demand on your system that will invariably require more calories be consumed.

Personally when I started doing cf style cardio I quickly overtrained (took about 6 weeks) at which point I had to step back and monitor my food intake. After adding in approx 1000 cals a day to my diet things everything was fine and the fat started to melt off.

Nice post... I agree with it totally...right on spot.