I'm Really Conflicted Here (Probably Offensive Thread ...)

[musclemom]

Is this just a really, REALLY late term abortion, mercy killing performed at the optimal time or murder. Murder would imply a level of premeditation, and since she concealed the pregnancy, you could definitely argue premeditation. But if the mother was swaying on the whole abortion thing it could be argued it's retroactive ...

Let's face it, in the final analysis (if you're being a realist) she probably did the kids a favor.

Mother Smothers Two Newborn Twins to Death

On Wednesday Lindsey Lowe was arrested by police in Hendersonville, a Nashville suburb, after her father discovered the body of a baby in a laundry basket. Lowe went into labor on Monday night on the toilet in the bathroom of her parent's home and delivered twins on her own. She smothered both of them to death and hid them under a blanket in a laundry basket.

The police affidavit revealed Lowe, 25, said she did not tell her family about her pregnancy. She believed she got pregnant in January and never saw a doctor. On Thursday, police were attempting to identify the father of the babies.

The first baby born to Lowe fell into the toilet and started to cry. FOX News reports the police affidavit read, “Lowe stated the baby was crying and Lowe did not want her parents to hear and find out about the child. Lowe stated she put her hand over the child's mouth and she stated she kept it there until the child was dead, which was a couple of minutes.”

Lowe did not verify the sex of the first child then gave birth to the second baby a few minutes later. The second child fell in the toilet and Lowe put her hand over the baby's mouth until the child died. Lowe then placed the deceased twins in a laundry basket and covered them with blankets.

 

[miplank]

WTF?

How can you even be conflicted on this?

 

[AFeedz]

wtf?

How can you even be conflicted on this?

+1

 

[jackangel]

what the fuck man

that just ruined my mood for a while

 

[WoodyO]

Is this just a really, REALLY late term abortion, mercy killing performed at the optimal time or murder. Murder would imply a level of premeditation, and since she concealed the pregnancy, you could definitely argue premeditation. But if the mother was swaying on the whole abortion thing it could be argued it's retroactive ...

Let's face it, in the final analysis (if you're being a realist) she probably did the kids a favor.

Mother Smothers Two Newborn Twins to Death

Knot an advocate of the law of threefold return?

 

[calveless wonder]

i'm all for pro choice and not letting babies come into the world that can't be taken care of but.......

this isn't even up for debate. she should have gotten this taken care of a long time ago

 

[smurf2]

kill her.

 

[AFeedz]

I'm pro-choice, but once that baby pops out alive, you no longer have the right to kill it, IMO.

This woman is a waste of fucking space. These are the type of people that need to be listed in Musclemom threads.

 

[miplank]

I still want to know how MM is conflicted

 

[nangiggles]

i'm all for pro choice and not letting babies come into the world that can't be taken care of but.......

this isn't even up for debate. she should have gotten this taken care of a long time ago

THIS ^^^ if you couldnt get an abortion for whatever reason (religion, money, someone wont let you, cant take leave of absence, etc) then give them up, when she felt contractions she should have hauled ass somewhere (bathroom of a gas station/church isnt different from bathroom of her house)and give birth and give up the babies... Im pro choice and if it's inside your body it's your decision, but once it's out it's alive and it has it's own rights...

 

[ceo]

I'm pro-choice, but once that baby pops out alive, you no longer have the right to kill it, IMO.

This woman is a waste of fucking space. These are the type of people that need to be listed in Musclemom threads.

agreed. I am going to list Lindsey Lowe in MM's who would you kill thread.

 

[EarthRider]

I'll go pro-life here, not conflicted and hope she rots in prison

or they just dump her in a garbage can, either way works for me.

 

[musclemom]

I still want to know how MM is conflicted

I can't decide if she's a waste of air and space that is doubly damned for murder of two innocents ...

OR ...

If she just committed abortion six months late.

Now hold on with the visceral responses for a minute. These are not cute little plump bundles of love as perfectly photographed by Anne Geddes. These are fresh out of the wrapper human newborns that honestly are one step above any baby bird. Red, squawking, sticky, absolutely helpless to the point of not even being able to find sustenance, not even possessing the instinct to crawl to a tit.

Now be honest here, if you had a choice of being murdered, and could pick ANY time in your life (except the last decade) when would you choose to die? I don't know about the rest of you, but I honestly have no memory of anything before age 2. Is dying before you lived such a horrible proposition (and dying during/at/immediately after birth is pretty much dying before you lived).

Is dying before you lived a dramatically worse proposition than dying after you've lived, and/or living with the knowledge that some day you will die?

On another hand, if you agree with abortion, is murder AT birth, at the hand of your mother, that much more different from abortion? (personally, I believe it is, but not substantially. I've attended a whole lot of births of many species of critters in my time. Dying then is about as easy as it gets).

Didn't say it was a pleasant thread. At least give me credit for truth in advertising.

Oh, and why would I even think of asking such a question? Because matricide at birth was a relatively common practice once upon a time in not so distant (historically speaking) human history and would not have been an act looked upon scornfully.

 

[Peterlumberjack]

muscle mom is dark

 

[TableFun]

Grab your torches and pitchforks!

 

[nangiggles]

I can't decide if she's a waste of air and space that is doubly damned for murder of two innocents ...

OR ...

If she just committed abortion six months late.

Now hold on with the visceral responses for a minute. These are not cute little plump bundles of love as perfectly photographed by Anne Geddes. These are fresh out of the wrapper human newborns that honestly are one step above any baby bird. Red, squawking, sticky, absolutely helpless to the point of not even being able to find sustenance, not even possessing the instinct to crawl to a tit.

Now be honest here, if you had a choice of being murdered, and could pick ANY time in your life (except the last decade) when would you choose to die? I don't know about the rest of you, but I honestly have no memory of anything before age 2. Is dying before you lived such a horrible proposition (and dying during/at/immediately after birth is pretty much dying before you lived).

Is dying before you lived a dramatically worse proposition than dying after you've lived, and/or living with the knowledge that some day you will die?

On another hand, if you agree with abortion, is murder AT birth, at the hand of your mother, that much more different from abortion? (personally, I believe it is, but not substantially. I've attended a whole lot of births of many species of critters in my time. Dying then is about as easy as it gets).

Didn't say it was a pleasant thread. At least give me credit for truth in advertising.

Oh, and why would I even think of asking such a question? Because matricide at birth was a relatively common practice once upon a time in not so distant (historically speaking) human history and would not have been an act looked upon scornfully.

You shouldnt have to chose when to die, or if it was ok for the kids to be killed and not now or later, they shouldnt have died at all.

 

[miplank]

Grab your torches and pitchforks!

chris is gonna write MM a script for some Anti-D's

 

[musclemom]

You shouldnt have to chose when to die, or if it was ok for the kids to be killed and not now or later, they shouldnt have died at all.

Okay, that makes no sense. And really, you disappoint me, Nan, you're supposed to be the logical atheist neurologist.

Death is inevitable, life isn't.

BTW, Peter is closest so far Turning of the seasons from the first to second harvest, soon to enter the time of the Cailleach. We're coming into the time of balance before the land slips into darkness. All I can think about when I go outside is the coming silence as everything goes to rest.

Which, of course, doesn't apply to anyone south of the equator *sigh*

 

[-SD-]

Youre certainly having trouble with this whole "murder" topic as of late. This shouldnt even be a discussion. She can give them up for adoption, give them away to whomever, hell she can even dump them on a firestation doormat free and clear.

 

[TableFun]

chris is gonna write MM a script for some Anti-D's

lol u still have that script pic?

 

[miplank]

lol u still have that script pic?

i don't think so...I need to make a new one. lol

 

[musclemom]

chris is gonna write MM a script for some Anti-D's

I'm not depressed, I just think living is over rated ... especially when it comes to a good 90%+ of Western society.

Living when it's about nothing but focusing on getting the best grades, being accepted into the best college, then buying a big house, a big car, a big t.v., working your ass off in a job you don't really care about that doesn't really make a damned bit of difference except it pays the bills so you can buy bigger and bigger shit?! That's not living, that's slavery in a new and improved package. Meanwhile the pharmaceutical industry just keeps pumping out anti-Ds, SSRIs and mood stabilizers to keep everything palatable and make sure the herd remains bland, doped up and unconcerned.

 

[nangiggles]

Okay, that makes no sense. And really, you disappoint me, Nan, you're supposed to be the logical atheist neurologist.

Death is inevitable, life isn't.

BTW, Peter is closest so far Turning of the seasons from the first to second harvest, soon to enter the time of the Cailleach. We're coming into the time of balance before the land slips into darkness. All I can think about when I go outside is the coming silence as everything goes to rest.

Which, of course, doesn't apply to anyone south of the equator *sigh*

well in all fairness i did
Well I didnt say it was a sin or she's going to hell Im just saying its not fair, once they were out they have a life of their own and no one has the right to take it if there was no wrong doing in their part

 

[TableFun]

If it doesn't make you happy or make you money, get rid of it? Does that apply to life as well?

 

[75th]

kill her.

This. Now.

 

[-SD-]

I'm not depressed, I just think living is over rated ... especially when it comes to a good 90%+ of Western society.

Living when it's about nothing but focusing on getting the best grades, being accepted into the best college, then buying a big house, a big car, a big t.v., working your ass off in a job you don't really care about that doesn't really make a damned bit of difference except it pays the bills so you can buy bigger and bigger shit?! That's not living, that's slavery in a new and improved package. Meanwhile the pharmaceutical industry just keeps pumping out anti-Ds, SSRIs and mood stabilizers to keep everything palatable and make sure the herd remains bland, doped up and unconcerned.

I agree about big pharm wanting everyone doped up on their newest and best products since it means more $$$ for them. But other than that it all just seems like justifications and excuses for why you and your husband never got your "piece of the pie." People with means never seem to think that college degree or nice job are worthless in their lives and a lot of people are quite happy. Money may not automatically buy happiness but Im willing to bet it makes life a whole lot easier when you have it.

 

[Whiskey]

I'm with MM on this. IF she wasn't so dim witted and hid the bodies somewhere, ANYWHERE other than the laundry hamper, no one would have ever known but herself. Does it really matter? Seriously.

Whiskey

 

[EnderJE]

I'm thinking that she could have given them up for adoption.

 

[-SD-]

I'm with MM on this. IF she wasn't so dim witted and hid the bodies somewhere, ANYWHERE other than the laundry hamper, no one would have ever known but herself. Does it really matter? Seriously.

Whiskey

I could go kill some homeless person with the same effect. You in?

 

[Whiskey]

I could go kill some homeless person with the same effect. You in?

Only some? I'm only in if we make it an all nighter with the goal of 1000+

Whiskey

 

[AFeedz]

I could go kill some homeless person with the same effect. You in?

Actually let's kill Whiskey with the same effect, ya know, since it doesn't matter as long as you can hide it.

 

[-SD-]

Actually let's kill Whiskey with the same effect, ya know, since it doesn't matter as long as you can hide it.

Intricate planning and premeditation FTW

 

[Whiskey]

Actually let's kill Whiskey with the same effect, ya know, since it doesn't matter as long as you can hide it.

^^^see, even you came around. First you say once alive that you don't have the right to kill it. Now you're willing to kill those that don't share your beliefs... rather interesting

Whiskey

 

[AFeedz]

^^^see, even you came around. First you say once alive that you don't have the right to kill it. Now you're willing to kill those that don't share your beliefs... rather interesting

Whiskey

No I'm not. I was using irony to poke fun at your dumb fucking beliefs.

 

[TableFun]

She just doesnt like gingers

 

[EarthRider]

MM, you need a hug and some flowers or something

go outside and look at the sun, see the beautiful green grass

get drunk, i don't know get happy somehow

 

[miplank]

I agree about big pharm wanting everyone doped up on their newest and best products since it means more $$$ for them. But other than that it all just seems like justifications and excuses for why you and your husband never got your "piece of the pie." People with means never seem to think that college degree or nice job are worthless in their lives and a lot of people are quite happy. Money may not automatically buy happiness but Im willing to bet it makes life a whole lot easier when you have it.

Lol

 

[mrplunkey]

We need to get MM some Jesus really fast.

 

[-SD-]

We need to get MM some Jesus really fast.

I hate to say it but shes proving stereotypes about wiccan stuff.

 

[miplank]

On another note...

This girls parents should be up for parents of the year for letting her daughter go to term with twins and not noticing.

 

[AFeedz]

On another note...

This girls parents should be up for parents of the year for letting her daughter go to term with twins and not noticing.

Obv it runs in the family.

 

[SpyWizard]

Is this just a really, REALLY late term abortion, mercy killing performed at the optimal time or murder. Murder would imply a level of premeditation, and since she concealed the pregnancy, you could definitely argue premeditation. But if the mother was swaying on the whole abortion thing it could be argued it's retroactive ...

Let's face it, in the final analysis (if you're being a realist) she probably did the kids a favor.

Mother Smothers Two Newborn Twins to Death

yep, sorry to say

 

[TableFun]

Twins could easily have been adopted out.

 

[EarthRider]

On another note...

This girls parents should be up for parents of the year for letting her daughter go to term with twins and not noticing.

this is a great point

 

[musclemom]

On another note...

This girls parents should be up for parents of the year for letting her daughter go to term with twins and not noticing.

Assuming she was already pretty overweight/obese, I could actually see how this happened. Freaking TLC has and entire series of shows about "I was pregnant and didn't know it."

However, I do indeed agree that they deserve parent of the year awards for a different reason: That their 25 year old daughter was so terrified of their reaction to a pregnancy out of wedlock that she'd rather commit double murder than tell them what was going on.

Nice healthy family dynamics right there.

And stop laying this on Wiccans, this has nothing to do with Wicca, this is me (trust me on this, most Wiccans are major softies). Somebody find me articles about Wiccans committing utterly ruthless murder and I'll post them up and talk about them dispassionately, too (not satanic shit, don't go there).

 

[musclemom]

I agree about big pharm wanting everyone doped up on their newest and best products since it means more $$$ for them. But other than that it all just seems like justifications and excuses for why you and your husband never got your "piece of the pie." People with means never seem to think that college degree or nice job are worthless in their lives and a lot of people are quite happy. Money may not automatically buy happiness but Im willing to bet it makes life a whole lot easier when you have it.

See, here's why I'm married to my husband, he gets where I'm going with this thread. Whiskey's touching on it, too.

This has nothing to do with WANTING money, or college or a "piece of the pie" or any of that shit. And you're kind of right, money doesn't buy happiness, what money really does is it's the thing that gives you access to choices. The less money you have, the less choices you have, nothing more. Some days my life annoys me, other days I am filled with gratitude for virtually every moment of time.

No, in this case I'm talking about life and death and how many people have such a visceral response to a mother murdering her offspring. When my immediate, personal response is "How fucked up is home that she was that scared of her father finding out?"

25, and she felt she couldn't tell her parents she was pregnant. Maybe she's got some disabilities, maybe she can't work and needs to live at home and can't afford to live on her own (oh, and one more person mentions welfare to me, all I can say is you think that stuff is so easy to get, go apply yourself. You have to literally have next to NOTHING to qualify, including no home).

 

[miplank]

Assuming she was already pretty overweight/obese, I could actually see how this happened. Freaking TLC has and entire series of shows about "I was pregnant and didn't know it."

However, I do indeed agree that they deserve parent of the year awards for a different reason: That their 25 year old daughter was so terrified of their reaction to a pregnancy out of wedlock that she'd rather commit double murder than tell them what was going on.

Nice healthy family dynamics right there.

And stop laying this on Wiccans, this has nothing to do with Wicca, this is me (trust me on this, most Wiccans are major softies). Somebody find me articles about Wiccans committing utterly ruthless murder and I'll post them up and talk about them dispassionately, too (not satanic shit, don't go there).

I didnt say shit about wiccan/witches

 

[TableFun]

lol super dave said it like once

 

[EarthRider]

Well, Satan doesn't want what is best for the world. Satan likes evil and sin. Makes sense why a Wiccan would be ok with baby killing

See, here's why I'm married to my husband, he gets where I'm going with this thread. Whiskey's touching on it, too.

This has nothing to do with WANTING money, or college or a "piece of the pie" or any of that shit. And you're kind of right, money doesn't buy happiness, what money really does is it's the thing that gives you access to choices. The less money you have, the less choices you have, nothing more. Some days my life annoys me, other days I am filled with gratitude for virtually every moment of time.

No, in this case I'm talking about life and death and how many people have such a visceral response to a mother murdering her offspring. When my immediate, personal response is "How fucked up is home that she was that scared of her father finding out?"

25, and she felt she couldn't tell her parents she was pregnant. Maybe she's got some disabilities, maybe she can't work and needs to live at home and can't afford to live on her own (oh, and one more person mentions welfare to me, all I can say is you think that stuff is so easy to get, go apply yourself. You have to literally have next to NOTHING to qualify, including no home).

 

[cindylou]

See, here's why I'm married to my husband, he gets where I'm going with this thread. Whiskey's touching on it, too.

This has nothing to do with WANTING money, or college or a "piece of the pie" or any of that shit. And you're kind of right, money doesn't buy happiness, what money really does is it's the thing that gives you access to choices. The less money you have, the less choices you have, nothing more. Some days my life annoys me, other days I am filled with gratitude for virtually every moment of time.

No, in this case I'm talking about life and death and how many people have such a visceral response to a mother murdering her offspring. When my immediate, personal response is "How fucked up is home that she was that scared of her father finding out?"

25, and she felt she couldn't tell her parents she was pregnant. Maybe she's got some disabilities, maybe she can't work and needs to live at home and can't afford to live on her own (oh, and one more person mentions welfare to me, all I can say is you think that stuff is so easy to get, go apply yourself. You have to literally have next to NOTHING to qualify, including no home).

It's pretty easy to justify anything isn't it? Morality crumbles eventually without a foundation. I can completely understand where you're coming from, and I'm surprised more people don't agree with you. I don't blame you. Everything must come to dust, all things, everything must die. (I know you like Dr. Who) If life is meaningless then isn't it compassion to kill someone if their life might not be happy? This is the end conclusion to subjective morality and a life that is utterly absurd. Not only is our each individual life going to end, but humanity will eventually end, and then there will be no light, heat, eventually there will be no life..there will be no energy...just dead stars and galaxies. Who cares when it happens? If we can't be happy then we should be dead because there is no point to life. Our existence is meaningless so we try to be happy and pretend to find meaning in our lives and try not to think about the fact that even that is meaningless and if there is no value in happiness then there is certainly no meaning to suffering. Self-fulfillment is all we have, while some of us lie to ourselves and go beyond our own self interests for no reason. I remember as a kid thinking about that while smashing a couple dozen ants under my shoe..in fact I think about it every time I see an ant. There is no more advantage to being a human than an ant in the end. What does it matter? How do you not lose compassion for people? I don't see how you could not. This is the end of the road that most people ignore. In the end..what difference does it make?

MM has your spirituality not helped you find any value to life?

 

[musclemom]

Well, Satan doesn't want what is best for the world. Satan likes evil and sin. Makes sense why a Wiccan would be ok with baby killing

I do believe that life is the mother's prerogative. I've never heard our planet referred to by anyone, not even the most hardboiled Christian, as anything other than MOTHER Earth, Earthrider. The planet provides for ALL of your needs, your food, air, water and it's up to Gaia whether you live or die.

If there's an earthquake or tornado tomorrow, and you die in it, She decided you no longer needed to be alive.

Satan doesn't factor into my spiritual beliefs.

I'm currently having a hard time deciding why killing a human baby is any worse than killing a cow baby, or a dog baby or a chimp baby or a whale baby ...

See, what I'm hearing from people in this thread is that they don't about care the circumstances of the children's conception, the social, economic or intellectual status of the mother, all they care is that it's LIFE! A precious human LIFE. Fine. If life is so precious than why eat meat (that was a life, dammit!), how can you ignore the homeless (that's a life, an adult life, you don't know how they ended up there, they might have a mental illness and be off their meds) and don't give a fugg that there are children, thinking, breathing children, dying by the minute in countries like Africa (where 50% of all children born alive end up dead before age 5).

What I'm hearing is some humans more valuable than others. Giving a shit about a life is all about the situation. If a baby is born to a starving mother in Africa and she smothers it immediately to save it from starving slowly to death or dying of dysentery, would you still think hang her or she did it a favor?

You don't mind a piglet being slaughtered to feed your belly, a dolphin being murdered so it's calf can put a show on for you in Sea World, a chimp being murdered so her baby can end up in the zoo, all that's okay. But a pair of white twins, that shit's a precious commodity.

We got nearly 7 billion of those precious commodities devouring resources and pissing and shitting up the planet and more being born every day. Blue whales, clouded leopards and mountain gorillas, those are precious commodities, there's less of them every year and someday there won't be any at all.

So life is precious, if it's certain types of lives.

 

[EarthRider]

lol

how do we go from a mom who kills her baby, to I don't care about kids in Africa or dolphins

lmao, this is hilarious really

I am also not ok with people killing puppies, calves, or anything. I think all life is precious. We do care about he poor, and the hungry in Africa. My wife and i give money to help build wells in africa. And we give food to the poor. So thanks for making many assumptions about me, I appreciate it when people do that.

there are many sad things that do happen in America and the world that I can't do anything about. Doesn't mean that I don't care.

I do believe that life is the mother's prerogative. I've never heard our planet referred to by anyone, not even the most hardboiled Christian, as anything other than MOTHER Earth, Earthrider. The planet provides for ALL of your needs, your food, air, water and it's up to Gaia whether you live or die.

If there's an earthquake or tornado tomorrow, and you die in it, She decided you no longer needed to be alive.

Satan doesn't factor into my spiritual beliefs.

I'm currently having a hard time deciding why killing a human baby is any worse than killing a cow baby, or a dog baby or a chimp baby or a whale baby ...

See, what I'm hearing from people in this thread is that they don't about care the circumstances of the children's conception, the social, economic or intellectual status of the mother, all they care is that it's LIFE! A precious human LIFE. Fine. If life is so precious than why eat meat (that was a life, dammit!), how can you ignore the homeless (that's a life, an adult life, you don't know how they ended up there, they might have a mental illness and be off their meds) and don't give a fugg that there are children, thinking, breathing children, dying by the minute in countries like Africa (where 50% of all children born alive end up dead before age 5).

What I'm hearing is some humans more valuable than others. Giving a shit about a life is all about the situation. If a baby is born to a starving mother in Africa and she smothers it immediately to save it from starving slowly to death or dying of dysentery, would you still think hang her or she did it a favor?

You don't mind a piglet being slaughtered to feed your belly, a dolphin being murdered so it's calf can put a show on for you in Sea World, a chimp being murdered so her baby can end up in the zoo, all that's okay. But a pair of white twins, that shit's a precious commodity.

We got nearly 7 billion of those precious commodities devouring resources and pissing and shitting up the planet and more being born every day. Blue whales, clouded leopards and mountain gorillas, those are precious commodities, there's less of them every year and someday there won't be any at all.

So life is precious, if it's certain types of lives.

 

[AFeedz]

So she made assumptions about you? Nothing like you pinned her being Wiccan as her reason for being on the fence about this infanticide by equating Wicca with the devil, who Wiccans neither believe in nor worship, right?

Wicca is not the same thing as Satanism. It doesn't even make sense that a Wiccan would believe in or worship Satan because I they did, they'd have to also acknowledge our God, which they dont.

I totally disagree with MM in this thread, but the ignorance in your exchange is running both ways. Just sayin.

lol

how do we go from a mom who kills her baby, to I don't care about kids in Africa or dolphins

lmao, this is hilarious really

I am also not ok with people killing puppies, calves, or anything. I think all life is precious. We do care about he poor, and the hungry in Africa. My wife and i give money to help build wells in africa. And we give food to the poor. So thanks for making many assumptions about me, I appreciate it when people do that.

there are many sad things that do happen in America and the world that I can't do anything about. Doesn't mean that I don't care.

 

[TableFun]

But a pair of white twins, that shit's a precious commodity.

Pretty much. It would have been effortless to get them adopted out.

 

[cindylou]

I may disagree with MM, but I'm not going to pretend I don't understand how she got there.

 

[EarthRider]

So she made assumptions about you? Nothing like you pinned her being Wiccan as her reason for being on the fence about this infanticide by equating Wicca with the devil, who Wiccans neither believe in nor worship, right?

Wicca is not the same thing as Satanism. It doesn't even make sense that a Wiccan would believe in or worship Satan because I they did, they'd have to also acknowledge our God, which they dont.

I totally disagree with MM in this thread, but the ignorance in your exchange is running both ways. Just sayin.

word

 

[RottenWillow]

I can't decide if she's a waste of air and space that is doubly damned for murder of two innocents ...

OR ...

If she just committed abortion six months late.

Now hold on with the visceral responses for a minute. These are not cute little plump bundles of love as perfectly photographed by Anne Geddes. These are fresh out of the wrapper human newborns that honestly are one step above any baby bird. Red, squawking, sticky, absolutely helpless to the point of not even being able to find sustenance, not even possessing the instinct to crawl to a tit.

Now be honest here, if you had a choice of being murdered, and could pick ANY time in your life (except the last decade) when would you choose to die? I don't know about the rest of you, but I honestly have no memory of anything before age 2. Is dying before you lived such a horrible proposition (and dying during/at/immediately after birth is pretty much dying before you lived).

Is dying before you lived a dramatically worse proposition than dying after you've lived, and/or living with the knowledge that some day you will die?

On another hand, if you agree with abortion, is murder AT birth, at the hand of your mother, that much more different from abortion? (personally, I believe it is, but not substantially. I've attended a whole lot of births of many species of critters in my time. Dying then is about as easy as it gets).

Didn't say it was a pleasant thread. At least give me credit for truth in advertising.

Oh, and why would I even think of asking such a question? Because matricide at birth was a relatively common practice once upon a time in not so distant (historically speaking) human history and would not have been an act looked upon scornfully.

history and custom doesn't grandfather in murder, MM.

No educated, reasonable person would argue that murder at birth by either active or passive means isn't as old a practice as humankind itself. However, even if one did accept the argument that because this is an ancient practice it should be sanctioned, it doesn't change the fact that this incident isn't comparable to the systemic practices to which I think you allude. These murders weren't committed to spare resources or to preserve perceived tribal biological integrity.

 

[musclemom]

history and custom doesn't grandfather in murder, MM.

No educated, reasonable person would argue that murder at birth by either active or passive means isn't as old a practice as humankind itself. However, even if one did accept the argument that because this is an ancient practice it should be sanctioned, it doesn't change the fact that this incident isn't comparable to the systemic practices to which I think you allude. These murders weren't committed to spare resources or to preserve perceived tribal biological integrity.

Got at least a couple people thinking, though, didn't I?

Okay, in all honesty, I've already alluded to my opinion. I think this is sad, but not for the superficial reasons. That this woman's home life is such that she couldn't confide in her own parents, that murder seemed the only viable solution? There's the sadness. That some rich couple has been deprived of it's matched set of white infants? Not really.

On that thought, I'd really like to talk to people who were adopted. A specific subset of adoptees, in fact. The subset that had no contact with their biological parent(s) and hitting their late teens set out to find them, and upon finally finding them, ask the question "Why did you give me up?" and receive not the thoughtful and altruistic answers of "I couldn't afford you" or "I wanted you to have a better life than I could hope provide at that point" but simply "I don't believe in abortion but I didn't want you. You were a drunken accident, sorry." *shrug*

I just wonder how they feel. How does their biological parent's disinterest factor against their adopted parents love for them?

 

[miplank]

So she made assumptions about you? Nothing like you pinned her being Wiccan as her reason for being on the fence about this infanticide by equating Wicca with the devil, who Wiccans neither believe in nor worship, right?

Wicca is not the same thing as Satanism. It doesn't even make sense that a Wiccan would believe in or worship Satan because I they did, they'd have to also acknowledge our God, which they dont.

I totally disagree with MM in this thread, but the ignorance in your exchange is running both ways. Just sayin.

I knew you hated him...

 

[AFeedz]

I knew you hated him...

I don't hate ER at all. But if someone's going to wag their finger at another for making faulty assumptions, after they just did plenty of thing, I'm going to point it out.

Throw stones, glass houses, yadda yadda etc etc.

I like ER just fine.

 

[jnevin]

I'm going to rescue a bunch of kittens, put my shit kicking boots on, dump the kittens into a large bucket, and just go berzerker on them like I'm stomping grapes. This way I know they won't die in a shelter or be adopted by people that may neglect them.

 

[jnevin]

Well, Satan doesn't want what is best for the world. Satan likes evil and sin. Makes sense why a Wiccan would be ok with baby killing

I dunno dude. God created everything, including evil. So that ngr's not as perfect as he's made out to be. God wanted people to live lives of pain, Lucifer wanted people to live in peace. God created hell so he could send his "children" there. He sounds like a faggot to me. Organized religion is just as laughable as a bunch of people that never fit in chanting in the woods with crystals making potions and howling at the moon.

 

[musclemom]

God made the universe and everything in it, the Bible says so.

That means God made faggots, tobacco, booze, masturbation, and people that commit murder, adultery, theft and those who are generally greedy, selfish or indulgent ... then punishes them because they are the way he made them or because they use the things he made?

And I'm weird.

 

[mrplunkey]

God made the universe and everything in it, the Bible says so.

That means God made faggots, tobacco, booze, masturbation, and people that commit murder, adultery, theft and those who are generally greedy, selfish or indulgent ... then punishes them because they are the way he made them or because they use the things he made?

And I'm weird.

That's a misrepresentation and I'm fairly sure you know that as well.

According to the dogma, God gave people free will to they could choose. He even gave people free will to be witches who we all know worship the devil, sacrifice virgins, drink blood and cast hexes.

 

[miplank]

That's a misrepresentation and I'm fairly sure you know that as well.

According to the dogma, God gave people free will to they could choose. He even gave people free will to be witches who we all know worship the devil, sacrifice virgins, drink blood and cast hexes.

lol

 

[EarthRider]

That's a misrepresentation and I'm fairly sure you know that as well.

According to the dogma, God gave people free will to they could choose. He even gave people free will to be witches who we all know worship the devil, sacrifice virgins, drink blood and cast hexes.

this

i like the plunkster

 

[cindylou]

God made the universe and everything in it, the Bible says so.

That means God made faggots, tobacco, booze, masturbation, and people that commit murder, adultery, theft and those who are generally greedy, selfish or indulgent ... then punishes them because they are the way he made them or because they use the things he made?

And I'm weird.

The way I see it God didn't create some of those things, they are a natural response to free will. According to my belief, God did create alcohol and tobacco and there is nothing wrong with using them...and again, this is the way I see it...material things can't be evil or sinful.

 

[musclemom]

That's a misrepresentation and I'm fairly sure you know that as well.

According to the dogma, God gave people free will to they could choose. He even gave people free will to be witches who we all know worship the devil, sacrifice virgins, drink blood and cast hexes.

True, true.

So whatcha doin' next Samhain, Plunk, we're always in the market for a sacrifice ... frankly, virgins are getting harder and harder to find unless you're ready to start hitting up elementary school playgrounds. Not that we have any scruples about that particular issue, mind you, but most of them have totally amped up security.

Wouldn't you like to have your soul devoured by the Dark Lord of All Evil?

 

[mrplunkey]

True, true.

So whatcha doin' next Samhain, Plunk, we're always in the market for a sacrifice ... frankly, virgins are getting harder and harder to find unless you're ready to start hitting up elementary school playgrounds. Not that we have any scruples about that particular issue, mind you, but most of them have totally amped up security.

Wouldn't you like to have your soul devoured by the Dark Lord of All Evil?

I'm a capitalist though. Doesn't that MAKE me the Dark Lord of All Evil?

 

[EarthRider]

The way I see it God didn't create some of those things, they are a natural response to free will. According to my belief, God did create alcohol and tobacco and there is nothing wrong with using them...and again, this is the way I see it...material things can't be evil or sinful.

i agree with this too

i plan on using some alcohol and tobacco this evening

 

[musclemom]

I'm a capitalist though. Doesn't that MAKE me the Dark Lord of All Evil?

We're really not all that particular. In fact, you being a capitalist might actually make you particularly appetizing to certain deities. A beating heart, a few quarts of blood, abject terror, we're pretty well set

So, October 30/31, how's your calendar look? Feel like making a donation to the cause? We only need your heart and some blood. Shit, man, you're a self admitted capitalist, ain't like you're gonna miss your heart.

 

[mrplunkey]

We're really not all that particular. In fact, you being a capitalist might actually make you particularly appetizing to certain deities. A beating heart, a few quarts of blood, abject terror, we're pretty well set

So, October 30/31, how's your calendar look? Feel like making a donation to the cause? We only need your heart and some blood. Shit, man, you're a self admitted capitalist, ain't like you're gonna miss your heart.

Late October won't work. I'm acquiring several unsuspecting companies for the sheer pleasure of downsizing their employees and pillaging their customers.

Why can't you guys schedule your events around a real holiday like thanksgiving or christmas?

 

[Spartacus]

Is this just a really, REALLY late term abortion, mercy killing performed at the optimal time or murder. Murder would imply a level of premeditation, and since she concealed the pregnancy, you could definitely argue premeditation. But if the mother was swaying on the whole abortion thing it could be argued it's retroactive ...

Let's face it, in the final analysis (if you're being a realist) she probably did the kids a favor.

Mother Smothers Two Newborn Twins to Death

that's what I'm talkin' about
as a courtesy I thought I'd return the favor
and comment on a MM initiated thread
and lo and behold
I find action

 

[musclemom]

that's what I'm talkin' about
as a courtesy I thought I'd return the favor
and comment on a MM initiated thread
and lo and behold
I find action

Smothered toilet twins and many people who think life is precious on principal, yet many MEN who are willing to fuck a lonely fat girl they will mock in the morning without considering the potential of the seeds they've sown.

 

[jackangel]

in my bible study they taught us that god is the ultimate source of all faggotry

 

[WoodyO]

 

[miplank]

Smothered toilet twins and many people who think life is precious on principal, yet many MEN who are willing to fuck a lonely fat girl they will mock in the morning without considering the potential of the seeds they've sown.

 

[Spartacus]

I dunno dude. God created everything, including evil. So that ngr's not as perfect as he's made out to be. God wanted people to live lives of pain, Lucifer wanted people to live in peace. God created hell so he could send his "children" there. He sounds like a faggot to me. Organized religion is just as laughable as a bunch of people that never fit in chanting in the woods with crystals making potions and howling at the moon.

this could get
good or evil
such nonsenes but despite my admiration
I would in no way impregnate musclemom
and then lie to the children?

 

[Spartacus]

Smothered toilet twins and many people who think life is precious on principal, yet many MEN who are willing to fuck a lonely fat girl they will mock in the morning without considering the potential of the seeds they've sown.

you have issues with men
thus your husband isn't up to the task
so to speak

 

[Spartacus]

like the good 'ole days DB
when you had to rotate the vinyl to hear the other side

 

[Spartacus]

God made the universe and everything in it, the Bible says so.

That means God made faggots, tobacco, booze, masturbation, and people that commit murder, adultery, theft and those who are generally greedy, selfish or indulgent ... then punishes them because they are the way he made them or because they use the things he made?

And I'm weird.

and combat sperm
want sum