what the fuck does an aggressive PCT mean?

[Sub-Zero]

i see this term used alot.

"for such and such compound, or such and such cycle, you have to use an aggressive PCT"

"such and such compound shuts you down HARD"

is there really differing degrees of being shut down? does your body never completely stop test production, and just based on the ammounts of test, it starts to create less and less?

assuming you use HCG to keep test production constant throughout a cycle, would an "aggressive PCT" ever really be needed? or once the test clears, the test is cleared, and you can go about your business and recovery as you would any cycle reguardless of the compounds?

hopefully someone can make being "shut down" and "recovering" a bit more clear for me

thanks!

 

[machine23]

You need to put the jokes down Sub and do some research.. You spend too much time on CC

 

[Arabian]

i see this term used alot.

"for such and such compound, or such and such cycle, you have to use an aggressive PCT"

"such and such compound shuts you down HARD"

is there really differing degrees of being shut down? does your body never completely stop test production, and just based on the ammounts of test, it starts to create less and less?

assuming you use HCG to keep test production constant throughout a cycle, would an "aggressive PCT" ever really be needed? or once the test clears, the test is cleared, and you can go about your business and recovery as you would any cycle reguardless of the compounds?

hopefully someone can make being "shut down" and "recovering" a bit more clear for me

thanks!

Being shut down is directly related to what type of steroid you are doing and for how long you cycle it. If its Test E then its been my experience that it does not take me long after a cycle to regain my natural test levels. If its Tren , Im running then Ive found that I have to double dose my pct (I guess you could call it aggressive) meaning I run Hcg at 500 per week while on and do 100 mg of clomid, double dose than Test for 3 weeks. I double up on Hcgenerate Unleashed,forma stanazol, as well. The only way you can really tell anything is if you have your blood work done before and AFTER your cycle. I hope that helps.

 

[RADAR]

Running Tren,Deca,Test in high dosages for a peroid of 20 weeks will suppress you longer/harder than 10wks of 500mg test/Dbol

so the different types of compounds and the length ran requires a heavier PCT!

 

[Nelson Montana]

Actually there are different degrees of SUPPRESSION. Notice, I didn;t say "shut down" because that's an entirely different thing.

Having said that, there's only so much you can do PCT. Taking more HCG won't help. Lowering estrogen too low won't help. Doubling up on the UNLEASHED and using it into the 2nd and 3rd month is all you can do.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Actually there are different degrees of SUPPRESSION. Notice, I didn;t say "shut down" because that's an entirely different thing.

Having said that, there's only so much you can do PCT. Taking more HCG won't help. Lowering estrogen too low won't help. Doubling up on the UNLEASHED and using it into the 2nd and 3rd month is all you can do.

so usually these systems are never fully shut down, usually just suppressed to differing degrees based on the compounds and quantities you use?

but if you are using HCG (and adjust it accordingly as nelson said), then you are keeping everything going except messing with LH production. so your nuts just dont get supressed in the first place.

and as for the estrogenic/progesterone sides, once everything clears from your system, wouldnt aromitisation and high levels of estrogen not really be an issue (assuming you kept it under control during your cycle in the first place)?

 

[BEEFCAKEZ]

Being shut down is directly related to what type of steroid you are doing and for how long you cycle it. If its Test E then its been my experience that it does not take me long after a cycle to regain my natural test levels. If its Tren , Im running then Ive found that I have to double dose my pct (I guess you could call it aggressive) meaning I run Hcg at 500 per week while on and do 100 mg of clomid, double dose than Test for 3 weeks. I double up on Hcgenerate Unleashed,forma stanazol, as well. The only way you can really tell anything is if you have your blood work done before and AFTER your cycle. I hope that helps.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[stevesmi]

like RADAR said.. run tren ace and you will understand how fast it 'shuts you down'

my nuts starting shrinking week 2 or 3.

also deca if you do not run hcg while on your nuts will turn to raisins, PCT helps jumpstart.. thats why people who cycle always run PCT's, its standard protocol.

 

[Nelson Montana]

so usually these systems are never fully shut down, usually just suppressed to differing degrees based on the compounds and quantities you use?

.........................................

IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE TO BE COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN, IT JUST NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.



........................

but if you are using HCG (and adjust it accordingly as nelson said), then you are keeping everything going except messing with LH production. so your nuts just dont get supressed in the first place.

...............................

HCG DOES NOT PREVENT SUPPRESSION! IT ARTIFICIALLY KEEPS LH ELEVATED, WHICH MAKES IT NICE KICK START TO PCT. BUT HCG CURES NOTHING. THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST MISUNDERSTANDINGS I SEE ON THESE BOARDS.


.....................

and as for the estrogenic/progesterone sides, once everything clears from your system, wouldnt aromitisation and high levels of estrogen not really be an issue (assuming you kept it under control during your cycle in the first place)?
...................


DEPENDS. SOMETIMES E GETS JACKED WHEN T DROPS. OTHER TIMES IT TOO GETS SUPPRESSED. BUT PEOPLE TEND TO GET E SYMPTOMS POST CYCLE WHICH IS WHY USED AN ANTI E FOR A WHILE IS A GOOD IDEA.

....

 

[stevesmi]

i will simplify everyones answers.

after you run a deca cycle.

a PCT like:

2 weeks of nolva = crappy PCT

HCG/cabaser on cycle and then upping hcg during the esther clearance, 2-3 doses of HMG, 4-6 weeks of low dose SERM, natty supps such as unleashed/post cycle = aggressive PCT.

if you choose the first PCT you will probably be on HRT at a young age and wonder what went wrong.

if you choose the 2nd PCT you will recover time on=time off X2 and be ready for your next cycle

 

[Sub-Zero]

i will simplify everyones answers.

after you run a deca cycle.

a PCT like:

2 weeks of nolva = crappy PCT

HCG/cabaser on cycle and then upping hcg during the esther clearance, 2-3 doses of HMG, 4-6 weeks of low dose SERM, natty supps such as unleashed/post cycle = aggressive PCT.

if you choose the first PCT you will probably be on HRT at a young age and wonder what went wrong.

if you choose the 2nd PCT you will recover time on=time off X2 and be ready for your next cycle

i guess i am trying to understand the actual physiology of supression and being shut down, and recovery.

nelson, i understand what you are saying that HCG doesnt fix anything, but when LH production stops, it stops. reguardless of what you are taking. so it requires a PCT to let that recover. estrogen and test ratios need to restabalize as well. so i understand pct needs to address preventing side effects during this time period as well.

i guess the only way to get a practical understand would be, as arabian said, to use blood work after various compounds and dosages to get a better grasp, but this still wouldnt address my physiological interests in the matter.

no disrespect steve, but the time off =time on x2 is just a broscience. when you recover, you recover, unless something else is introduced to the body to throw you off again. nothing happens in the body without a "reason". when there is no more exogenous compounds in your body and, and everything is working again, your body isnt going to look back on the times you have cycled and all of a sudden crash.

if i am interpreting everyone's responses properly i guess the degree of suppression makes the most sense to me, as a reason why aggessive PCT vs a "regular pct" would be necessary.

sorry for being a brat in this thread, i appreciate all of your responses but i want to understand on a scientific level what is happening,

hopefully this thread gets sommore posts!

 

[Sub-Zero]

PCT should NOT be treated, or thought of, like a steroid cycle! I'll even go as far as saying it should be treated just the opposite: Use a little, for a long period of time.

i really like this theory, it makes the most sense to me.

and going off the degree of suppression idea, it would make sense that the degree of PCT would start with tapering yourself into recovery.

the old school high dosages of a SERM tapering down further into PCT kind of follows this thought.

you need the most protection when your HPTA is at its weakest, and it gains strength through recovery, and you dip the dosages down.

when it comes to the natural supps advertised on this board by nelson and needto, i think that these negatively affect your bodys natural homeostasis the least, so it would make sense to END PCT with these supps.

and i guess based on suppression levels, these could be enough for mild suppression, and then for much heavier cycles use harsher PCT compounds, tapering down into a less harsh PCT method, like unleashed, and those products. like a PCT for your PCT to bring everything back safetly and slowly to ensure you dont crash from anything

 

[stevesmi]

no disrespect steve, but the time off =time on x2 is just a broscience. when you recover, you recover
!

absolutely untrue. do not think just cause you 'feel recovered' or your test levels are back to where they were before cycle that your HPTA is full restored. its better to overshoot then to jump back on a cycle early. i'm working with a guy right now who ran a wreckless cycle and he ran a blood test way too early and his test levels are still high (because the test esthers are still in his body, not because he is recovered) to a newb that would mean its a green light to jump back on another cycle, people do that all the time. it can take 2, 3, or even longer for esthers to clear the body.. deca can take 5 or more weeks.

the time on = time off X2 might be broscience but it is a good way to ensure you do not jump on too early. if you run a 10 week cycle, cycle off 20 weeks. its not a rule though just a good general way to cycle for years without screwing up your HPTA.

and a solid PCT will not only speed up your recovery but it will help you keep your gains while you are in recovery by giving you a soft landing.

the tricky part though is knowing when you are recovered, there really isn't a way of knowing. this is why I only run 2 cycles a year and keep them 'short' for todays standards. I'm not gonna go on HRT at a young age, that is a waste of your natural test.. would rather keep cycling as long as possible.

example is I ran a deca cycle for 8 weeks along with test for 10 weeks.. so i had esthers in my body 13 weeks... it took me 13 weeks alone to finally get my test levels going from 97 when i was 'suppressed' to get it to 330 on my way to recovery. so should i have ran a cycle then before my test levels were fully restored? no.. i waited another 12 weeks to ensure my HPTA was rolling full throttle.

also another big myth i keep hearing is that if someones libido is good that means they are recovered.. this is also false. my libido was fine when my test was down to 97, thankfully i was smart enough to run a blood test or I would of presumed I was recovered. test levels does NOT equate to libido so to use that as an indicator of recovery is wreckless. a series of blood tests that show improvement then stabilization with your free and total test levels is a much better indicator. in my case once my test levels hit 500+ and leveled off I gave it another week or two before jumping on my next cycle. by then my HPTA was as i said above rolling

I had a log up of my bloods during my entire PCT a year ago, you would of loved it... however it was killed because it turned into a flame war amongst people argueing about pct etc... it ran about 150 posts... I will make anyone a deal who runs tren or deca, if they put up a PCT log with a series of blood tests I will give them 15M karma documenting their libido, bloods, strength and mass changes, etc etc... I will even set up your PCT for you... it would be a very beneficial log and I think people would learn a lot.

 

[Sub-Zero]

when your test was crashed to 97, what did you do to get it back?

 

[stevesmi]

I ran an 'aggressive PCT'.

HCG, then HMG, then a low dose SERM, then natty supps. then let my body take it from there with a lot of time off. then i was ready for my next cycle

 

[Sub-Zero]

cool post bro thanks alot!