Post Shoulder Surgery Cycle?

[fishn4life]

Hi all, thank you in advance for your helpful input......

I am having surgery on a torn tendon to my dominate shoulder in a few weeks. I have had several talks with people who have had the same surgery and they all agree rehab is a bitch. A few guys with successful rehabilitation - including a current NFL player (no names)- have suggested AAS and HGH to assist with rehab once I have range of motion back. I understand that diet and dedication will be two of the biggest factors to proper rehabilitation, but I also know there are pharmacological aids that can also help.
I have asked a few guys here in the forum about their surgery rehab and so far haven't heard back, so I figured I might as well start a thread...
My stats - 35yo M, lifting recreational 15+ years. Couple of Sus250 cycles 12yrs back.
My goal isn't so much to gain great size than to gain strength and mobility back. My job requires me to be active and constantly stresses muscle activity and cardio.
Once I have range of motion here's my plan:

Test - 200-300mg wk (1-10) c/e/p ?
Deca - 200mg wk (1-10)
Anavar 30mg wk (4-10)

Again, any feed you have +/- , especially if you've had tendon surgery or know the results of someone who has would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Fish

 

[KenBraggofCarroltonGA]

i would ease back into it naturally and then go hard naturally and kinda hit a "natural" plateau or wall. i'm afraid doing any anabolic or androgenic aas is going to get you too strong too fast before and cause injury.

 

[fishn4life]

I hear what you're saying. The statistics show males from >30yo who have tendons repaired surgically to knees and shoulders have a 50% fail ratio - meaning half of us end up needing surgery again because of improper rehab (or over doing it too soon). Believe me....I am planning on taking my time and doing it right, however, if there are agents that will assist in healing of the tendon and expedite the recovery process without compromising proper rehabilitation, I'm for it.

Thanks for the feed back....please continue to add to this thread as I know I'm not the 1st nor will be the last to explore this topic...

Thanks,
Fish

 

[KenBraggofCarroltonGA]

sounds good. EF plat RADAR has a SARMS journal. Around post 53 or so, he speaks of a connective tissue 'healing" benefit. Maybe you want to give SARMS a shot first. Or maybe pm RADAR. or people with more info on the SARMS or other info can chime in?

 

[ftwjason]

I am 6 months out of my surgery to repair a posterior labrial tendon in my shoulder. I think I started lifting heavy a little too soon as I am still having alot of pain with it. Range of motion is about 50% of what it used to be so I am going to start working on stretching and cuff strengthing exercises. Not sure if the AAS helped or hurt so I guess my suggestion would be to do the PT as long as you can.

 

[-SD-]

Why anyone would think of steroids for rehab purposes is beyond me. Roids have no place for post surgery rehab. Tendons that cant support the strain is what got you into the surgery to begin with, steroids will only lead to more complications. Steroids make muscles grow stronger and bigger, thats it. Tendons cant keep up with that and thats why there are so many torn tendons, blown pecs, etc while on steroids. You need to see the bigger picture and get out of the "steroid mindset". Start slow with PT, and slowly work up to natural light lifting again, do what the doctors say and not what some guy in the gym said. Not trying to be a dick but Im tired of everyone turning to steroids as the solution to everything remotely physique related.

 

[needtogetaas]

I sat fuck no on the cycle right now. Use a otc stack. You do not need it and it will hurt more then help if you use juice right now.

 

[fishn4life]

Thanks all for the thoughts.....All good suggestions to digest.
SuperDave - I hear what you're saying. I know that steroids will not be a miracle cure to rehab and I'm also aware that lifting heavy with or w/o gear before proper rehabilitation will only cause further injury. Maybe a Test/Deca/Var cycle is pushing it.....I am inquiring input because I have heard there are certain drugs that ASSIST with recovery in making the tendon heal and become "strong."
Thanks for the continued input....

Fish

 

[timtim]

shoulder surgery is not one you recover from with aas or hgh. its such an individual procedure, i would really take it slow. you are going to find the early stages to be incredibly painful during your recovery. get through that. try and recover as much ROM as possible. once all of that is set, then start aas. look at the ROM of the shoulder joint. its enormous. any change in your ROM should be considered a failed recovery. get through the scar tissue formation and keep the joint functional before anything else. scar tissue forms for up to 8 months post surgery. focus on getting through that period or you may have pain in certain ranges for the rest of your life.

 

[ftwjason]

After talking to my ortho doc again I think the AAS actually hurt my recovery. To do the surgery they have to make an incesion in the rotator cuff. I felt like I was starting to get stronger but I was just compensating on that side due to the rotator cuff instability. So basically my delts got stronger before they should have, my range of motion in that shoulder sucks and now I am almost back to square 1. Wait at least 6 months post surgery until doing any AAS and you will end up better off.

 

[-SD-]

Thanks all for the thoughts.....All good suggestions to digest.
SuperDave - I hear what you're saying. I know that steroids will not be a miracle cure to rehab and I'm also aware that lifting heavy with or w/o gear before proper rehabilitation will only cause further injury. Maybe a Test/Deca/Var cycle is pushing it.....I am inquiring input because I have heard there are certain drugs that ASSIST with recovery in making the tendon heal and become "strong."
Thanks for the continued input....

Fish

There are no steroids that assist in making any tendons or ligaments stronger or can help with any rehab after orthopaedic surgery.

 

[fishn4life]

Sounds like you just went through this dilemma ftw....Sorry to hear you're back to square one!
Sounds like the majority agrees to stay away from AAS until healing is complete. I'm going to take heed to the advise here and hold off on the var, etc....at least until a full recovery is accomplished.

Once I have partial range of motion back I would like to incorporate SARMS into my rehabilitation. I will do 25mg x 2 ed for 60 days and post the progress every 5 days or so. My PT has helped rehabilitate many shoulders from this surgery and he too is curious how SARMS will assist in the rehab, he has also been reading about this the last 4 months or so. I know this is still in the research "phase" but if sarms could help rehabilitate and heal tendon & muscle - the word should get out...

Just had blood drawn this week for a base. No AAS in the last 5+ years. Besides a clean diet - supps will only be my multi-V and sarms.
Rehab won't start until May, but I will be sure to keep everyone posted.

All critique welcome.....

Fish

 

[tdidd42]

ok i will break it down for. first off a torn tendon is not that bad, just a pain in the ass and you wait 7-8 months and your fine, with proper PT. you are right, there are studies that show deca will help your injured tendons after surgery. HERE IS THE PROBLEM! all your tendons become weak. all your tendons will not get stronger and grow at the same time. you start doing aas and hitting back, your fine, start doing that and hitting bench even light, you will tear another tendon that is weaker, 100%. trust me, I had torn labrium, pushed it even 6 months after. and tore my rotaor cuff. i just had that surgery in oct. and the last thing i am doing is aas. I am rehabing smart, eating clean, and doing what i can. you shouldnt consider doing a cycle until after 1 year. Thats my adivise and i have been through 2 surgies. relax take your time, whats the hurry?

 

[thelion2005]

Hi all, thank you in advance for your helpful input......

I am having surgery on a torn tendon to my dominate shoulder in a few weeks. I have had several talks with people who have had the same surgery and they all agree rehab is a bitch. A few guys with successful rehabilitation - including a current NFL player (no names)- have suggested AAS and HGH to assist with rehab once I have range of motion back. I understand that diet and dedication will be two of the biggest factors to proper rehabilitation, but I also know there are pharmacological aids that can also help.
I have asked a few guys here in the forum about their surgery rehab and so far haven't heard back, so I figured I might as well start a thread...
My stats - 35yo M, lifting recreational 15+ years. Couple of Sus250 cycles 12yrs back.
My goal isn't so much to gain great size than to gain strength and mobility back. My job requires me to be active and constantly stresses muscle activity and cardio.
Once I have range of motion here's my plan:

Test - 200-300mg wk (1-10) c/e/p ?
Deca - 200mg wk (1-10)
Anavar 30mg wk (4-10)

Again, any feed you have +/- , especially if you've had tendon surgery or know the results of someone who has would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Fish

I have observed shoulder injuries being rehabed at my U of M Center. Full range of motion comes first. Lots of stretching and super light db work with high reps. Strength with machines and db last.

Ice packs are applied after every session with a full day of no activity to follow.

As for the use of aas and hgh ... In my personal experience, good old test and HGH speed the recovery. Do not inject into the repaired area. Put the drugs into the system and let the healing take over. I recovered from a complete right hip joint replacement in record time doing this.

 

[fishn4life]

Just wanted to follow up for anyone who's curious...

A few weeks turned into 4-5 weeks, so surgery is next week.
I appreciate all the advise not only from this forum but all the other educational tools on the web.
Anyone who has had or is going to have RC surgery knows this is only something you want to do ONCE. So for me, this is my plan for rehab and unless something unforseen comes up, I will stick to it....

2-3 iu's gh ED x 7-8 months
Super Cissus
Glucosamine
multi V
Fish Oil

Once I get some ROM back (8 weeks?) I will introduce IGF LR3 40mcg/day x 4 weeks

If all is going well I will then incorporate 200mg test w/ 50mg deca each week x 12 (hcg & arimidex included)

After a few weeks of pct I plan on SARMS 50mg ED x 60 days with N2Slin

Of course this map will depend on proper rehab and diet/exercise!

I will try and keep a detailed log here...Hopefully this will be beneficial for someone out there in the same predicament.

Fish

 

[rospina]

i've had shoulder reconstructive surgery to repair several issues about a year ago. I tore my labrum, ac ligament, and partially tore my biceps tendon. I also had a bunch of bone spurs in my subacromial region that was impinging my rotator cuff and bursae (causing massive bursitis/edema). Let's just say my shoulder was F***D!!!! The best way I found to go about it was natural therapy until you recover most of your strength (usually within 4-6 months). I had a slow recovery due to all of the damage I sustained. Once you have recovered adequate strength (i.e., you can do pullups, push ups, rows, anything that requires a good amount of strength), I would THEN use some sort of supplement as an aid. I've currently been using SARMS to get myself back to the strength I had prior to the injury, and am in fact stronger than I've ever been now. Keep in mind that it has taken me almost over a year to get back to this level. Did I mention that I can compete again too (I've been competeing in MMA for 3 years now)!

Best advice I can give: listen to your physical therapist, don't overdue it - even if you feel strong early in the rehab, do what the therapist tells you and NOT MORE!, PATIENCE IS KEY and it's the only way you will get back to doing things the way you did before the injury. Good luck bro, let me know if you have any questions.

 

[truckdaddy]

roll with the sarms and cissus for sure. Sarms helped with my shoulder injury.

 

[axe3]

xx

 

[patriotnavy]

i dont want to hijack but this thread has alot of people with experience with torn labrums, which is what the doctor said i have after looking at the MRI. i posted a thread but no replies yet. reading about how hard torn labrums are to detect i want to see yalls opinion on knowing for sure i have the tear. it had been periodically catching when i would throw a ball or close a door in the wrong position, it would catch and snap, felt REAL gross. but after about 2 minutes it would feel fine and i would go back to doing whatever i was doing. i was doing my training in the pool when it happened agian but this time more severe and i could barely lift my arm the next day. Doctor said MRI showed my shoulder had either been dislocated at some point(which it hasnt) or just a lot of small tears. Doc opted to wait and stretch it so were 150% sure it torn. well its about 3 months later and the shoulder feels fine, the occasional poping but nothing that hurts unless throwing something where the shoulder feels real loose in the socket, but other than that it doesnt hurt. and has full ROM. Im headed for basic in not too long so im a bit paranoid about it. do my symptoms sound accurate for a tear? sorry for the long post guys.

 

[ledhead]

i dont want to hijack but this thread has alot of people with experience with torn labrums, which is what the doctor said i have after looking at the MRI. i posted a thread but no replies yet. reading about how hard torn labrums are to detect i want to see yalls opinion on knowing for sure i have the tear. it had been periodically catching when i would throw a ball or close a door in the wrong position, it would catch and snap, felt REAL gross. but after about 2 minutes it would feel fine and i would go back to doing whatever i was doing. i was doing my training in the pool when it happened agian but this time more severe and i could barely lift my arm the next day. Doctor said MRI showed my shoulder had either been dislocated at some point(which it hasnt) or just a lot of small tears. Doc opted to wait and stretch it so were 150% sure it torn. well its about 3 months later and the shoulder feels fine, the occasional poping but nothing that hurts unless throwing something where the shoulder feels real loose in the socket, but other than that it doesnt hurt. and has full ROM. Im headed for basic in not too long so im a bit paranoid about it. do my symptoms sound accurate for a tear? sorry for the long post guys.

Yeah, you have a tear. i tore my labrum twice and both times required surgery.I put the second one off for a few years and tore it worse.The Doc said get surgery now or get a new joint in the next five years.
So imo get an mri and if theres a tear let them fix it and save yourself future headaches....

 

[patriotnavy]

damn not what i was hoping for haha but thats what the doc said after he looked at my MRI's. but told me to PT it so we know for sure. well several months later still not 100%. i just f-ing hate surgery so i try to talk myself out of it. i called up to the oroginal doc who did the MRI and he said since i moved to College Station he'll set me up with the Texas A&M sports doctor here to get a second opinion, not lookin good for me though. if i do get the surgery it will have to heal before i go to BT for the navy in 8 months

 

[-SD-]

Go to houston medical district for the best doc bro
Trust me.

 

[patriotnavy]

Go to houston medical district for the best doc bro
Trust me.

its only about an hour away so ill def call up there and see what they can do for a second opinion. thanks

 

[MrKleen73]

Why anyone would think of steroids for rehab purposes is beyond me. Roids have no place for post surgery rehab. Tendons that cant support the strain is what got you into the surgery to begin with, steroids will only lead to more complications. Steroids make muscles grow stronger and bigger, thats it. Tendons cant keep up with that and thats why there are so many torn tendons, blown pecs, etc while on steroids. You need to see the bigger picture and get out of the "steroid mindset". Start slow with PT, and slowly work up to natural light lifting again, do what the doctors say and not what some guy in the gym said. Not trying to be a dick but Im tired of everyone turning to steroids as the solution to everything remotely physique related.

Okay I have to ask because I am looking into this very thing. Why is it a bad idea when all of the studies show that Anavar, Equipoise, Deca, and Primobolan increase collagen synthesis which does aid in healing and recovery. Assuming you did not try to use it for hypertrophy purposes is only being used for the increase in collagen production that should only be a positive.

Now for someone to use AAS with any intention of growth during that recovery phase is definitely a negative. Obviously having increased collegan production at the damaged site is a benefit to the healing process. SO is it really the practice of doing this that is incorrect or the way people go about it and let ego get involved with the healing process actually shortchanging it?

My question for those in the know is for healing benefits only, not muscle retention or anything else when is the most beneficial time to start taking the Anavar or similar AAS. I have read to wait until full range of motion, and I have been told to start it immediately since it is only the collegen production I am looking to exploit and not any notion of muscuar growth.

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

I had tommy john in highschool and rehabbed shoulder injuries so I have plenty of experiance with that! Shoot me a pm if you want and well figure it out