WTF! My short/long cycle thread closed by Fonz!

[Big Johnson]

Still the same wind bag you've always been, Rocket Boy.

 

[Slowmo21]

Gotta love the morons who think they can point out faults in people FAR smarter than they are.

People who are quick to point out their own (supposed) intellect are more often than not FAR from intelligent, and in your case, IMHO, this is the truth. I have lurked around AF and this board for a long time and have always found something to be off about your posts. I do not believe a lot of what you say, ie. your scientific background. If you actually have a degree you must have bought it or something.

BTW, about your signature:
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about facts, and weak minds talk about people" WAS NOT originally written by Fonz on 6/2002 as your signature seems to imply. You have merely changed some words of the original, by Eleanor Roosevelt or Hyman G. Rickover.

Well, I hope your career at International Male is going well. Take care.

 

[Slowmo21]

Also, I hope you manage to break 200lbs by your 50th cycle.

 

[KAYNE]

Yes, it must really suck to be a mongoloid.

My condolences.

Really.


Bwahahahaha.................

Fonz

GREAT FUCKING RESPONSE LARRY.........JUST FUCKING GREAT.

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT YOU ABUSE OF STEROIDS AND STILL WEIGHING ONLY 200LBS!!! DO YOU? FUCKING IDIOT.



LMAO @ SLOMO21!!! GREEN FOR YOU.

 

[Fonz]

People who are quick to point out their own (supposed) intellect are more often than not FAR from intelligent, and in your case, IMHO, this is the truth. I have lurked around AF and this board for a long time and have always found something to be off about your posts. I do not believe a lot of what you say, ie. your scientific background. If you actually have a degree you must have bought it or something.

BTW, about your signature:
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about facts, and weak minds talk about people" WAS NOT originally written by Fonz on 6/2002 as your signature seems to imply. You have merely changed some words of the original, by Eleanor Roosevelt or Hyman G. Rickover.

Well, I hope your career at International Male is going well. Take care.

You really are stupid you know.

An exact duplication of a "saying" is considered plagiarism.

BUT, para-phrasing a "saying" and changing it into your version is NOT.

It is perfectly legal academically.

SO, next time...try harder to cut me down b/c you'll NEVER succeed.

ANd Kayne, I said back to the ghetto with you.....those pesky police cars should catch up w/ your sorry backside anytime. Don't worry, I'm sure your gang brothers will bail you out....

Bwahahahaha.........

Have to love erradicating you fools.

Fonz

 

[Slowmo21]

You really are stupid you know.

An exact duplication of a "saying" is considered plagiarism.

BUT, para-phrasing a "saying" and changing it into your version is NOT.

Fonz

Fonz, in your almighty intellect, which do you think sounds more like plagiarism:

1. Using the original saying AND putting the name of the real author after it. This is how 99% of all people do it.

OR

2. Doing it Fonz-style, changing some words around and trying to pass it off as your own.

?

This signature thing in itself is irrelevant. However, this is not the first time you have done something like this and pretty much reflects what you are in reality: just a poser. I believe you don't get called out more often because you do contribute somewhat to the community. This is good, of course, but doesn't change the fact that you are not what you say you are.

LOOK WHO'S STUPID NOW.

 

[KAYNE]

People who are quick to point out their own (supposed) intellect are more often than not FAR from intelligent, and in your case, IMHO, this is the truth. I have lurked around AF and this board for a long time and have always found something to be off about your posts. I do not believe a lot of what you say, ie. your scientific background. If you actually have a degree you must have bought it or something.

BTW, about your signature:
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about facts, and weak minds talk about people" WAS NOT originally written by Fonz on 6/2002 as your signature seems to imply. You have merely changed some words of the original, by Eleanor Roosevelt or Hyman G. Rickover.

Well, I hope your career at International Male is going well. Take care.

FONZY BABY..........LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN MADE A BITCH BY SLOMO21. AS ALWAYS, PEOPLE MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A BITCH. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT INTELLIGENCE. THATS ALL. YOU MAY BE SMART IN YOUR FEILD OF STUDY (I'LL GIVE YOU THAT) BUT OTHER THAN THAT, MY DICKHEAD IS SMARTER THAN YOU LARRY. YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON.

 

[Paulos]

I consider Fonz a rarity here... a true genius who makes frequent unique contributions to the site.

I agree...Since I began using AAS Fonz has been nothing but helpful to me.

You all need to quit chugging the 48 Oz bottles of Hatorade.

 

[Slowmo21]

Fonz is no genius albeit he knows how to find information and pass it around, I have to give him that. I also understand he can and may have helped people but he is still a liar and a poser.

I would think LONG and HARD before accepting advice and new theories from a guy who has gained all his scientific knowledge by reading internet boards for 3 years.

 

[gwl9dta4]

not to kiss ass, but i find Fonz's arguments against short cycles to be compelling, especially from an athelete's point of view. Read what he said, he's talking about atheletes and everyone is talking about body builders. Fonz is a near pro level soccer player and making fun of him not being above 200lbs after so many cycles is down right stupid and reflects badly on the posters. Why don't we all go make fun of Pete Samprass or better yet Lance Armstrong. The point is that he makes sence but so does Nelson, he did not refute that fact, but rather that short cycles are inefficient for, once again, the ATHELETE.


Other then that i see many insecure people reading one thing BUT somehow magically understanding another, funny really. Fonz has done a lot of good for us and helped tremendously in this field. His blood results posts alone have served to shatter some very longstanding myths in BB.

 

[KAYNE]

Fonz is no genius albeit he knows how to find information and pass it around, I have to give him that. I also understand he can and may have helped people but he is still a liar and a poser.

I would think LONG and HARD before accepting advice and new theories from a guy who has gained all his scientific knowledge by reading internet boards for 3 years.

HENCE WHY I SAY FONZ HAS COPY AND PASTE INTELLIGENCE. THE FUCKING GUY HAS DONE MORE STEROIDS THAN A PHARMACY CAN HOLD AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME. HE EVEN BRAGGED ABOUT DOING 300MG/DAY FINA. WHAT THE??? I PUT THAT IN A THREAD A FEW TIMES BUT HE GETS HIS MOD FRIENDS TO LOCK IT.

 

[KAYNE]

not to kiss ass, but i find Fonz's arguments against short cycles to be compelling, especially from an athelete's point of view. Read what he said, he's talking about atheletes and everyone is talking about body builders. Fonz is a near pro level soccer player and making fun of him not being above 200lbs after so many cycles is down right stupid and reflects badly on the posters. Why don't we all go make fun of Pete Samprass or better yet Lance Armstrong. The point is that he makes sence but so does Nelson, he did not refute that fact, but rather that short cycles are inefficient for, once again, the ATHELETE.


Other then that i see many insecure people reading one thing BUT somehow magically understanding another, funny really. Fonz has done a lot of good for us and helped tremendously in this field. His blood results posts alone have served to shatter some very longstanding myths in BB.

FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE ATHLETES TO.....THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE OVER 250LBS AND HAVENT DONE HALF THE SHIT FONZ HAS DONE. FONZ IS A JACKASS LARRY.....END OF STORY.

 

[Paulos]

FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE ATHLETES TO.....THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE OVER 250LBS AND HAVENT DONE HALF THE SHIT FONZ HAS DONE. FONZ IS A JACKASS LARRY.....END OF STORY.

Bro I like you, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but there is a HUGE difference between a soccer player and a football player.

All I know is Fonz is 200 pounds, Vascular, with a six pack. That beats 90% of the board, and 99% of chat. Alot of people use ALOT of AAS around here, so why single him out?

 

[KAYNE]

Bro I like you, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but there is a HUGE difference between a soccer player and a football player.

All I know is Fonz is 200 pounds, Vascular, with a six pack. That beats 90% of the board, and 99% of chat. Alot of people use ALOT of AAS around here, so why single him out?

FONZ SINGLES HIMSELF OUT LARRY. I'M OVER 200LBS WITH A 6 PACK AND VASCULAR TO. I HAVENT DONE GEAR IN 2 YEARS. FONZ IS A BITCH. HE TALKS DOWN TO PEOPLE LIKE HE IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE. I'D SMACK HIS LITTLE PUNK ASS LIKE A HO IF I EVER RAN INTO HIM LARRY.

THERE ISNT THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FOOTBALL PLAYERS AND SOCCOR PLAYERS. BOTH RUN ALL GAME LONG.

 

[KAYNE]

I'VE DONE 3 CYCLES IN MY LIFE. FONZ HAS DONE TONS OF JUICE BY HIS OWN ADMISSION. WE ARE CLOSE TO THE SAME AGE.

 

[Fonz]

Is it just me, or does KAYNE sound like a very bitter individual?

Hmm..................

Fonz

 

[KAYNE]

I'M NOT BITTER AT ALL LARRY.......I JUST DONT LIKE YOU BITCH. THATS WHAT YOU ARE......A BITCH.

I'M ACTUALLY THINKING OF MOVING TO ENGLAND SOME DAY IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE AFTER I GET MY MASTERS. MAYBE I'LL SEE YOU THERE.

 

[Fonz]

HENCE WHY I SAY FONZ HAS COPY AND PASTE INTELLIGENCE. THE FUCKING GUY HAS DONE MORE STEROIDS THAN A PHARMACY CAN HOLD AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME. HE EVEN BRAGGED ABOUT DOING 300MG/DAY FINA. WHAT THE??? I PUT THAT IN A THREAD A FEW TIMES BUT HE GETS HIS MOD FRIENDS TO LOCK IT.

Copy and paste intelligence?


Bwahahahaha....this is just too much. Is this copy and paste intelligence?
Glucometric analysis of various OTC glucose utilization and insulin enhancing supplements. By Fonz.

In this study, that will be divided into part I and II, I will measure the Blood Glucose and temperature response to a meal with different supplements(5). In Part I, they will be used and tested independently. In Part II, I will explain how they can be used synergistically with one another and the numerous benefits the stack offers.

The supplements used:

1. None(Placebo)
2. CLA(Vitamin Shoppe)
3. GLA(Vitamin Shoppe)
4. R-ALA(Anabolic Fitness)
5. ALA (Kilosports)
6. Acetyl-L-Carnitine(Vitamin Shoppe)

Blood Glucose monitors used:

Principal: CVS Prestige Smart system. Serial Number: 6429796
Back-up: Glucotrend 2. Serial Number: GH022114809

Every original 1st reading by the principal Blood Glucose monitor(CVS) was checked by the back-up Glucometer(Glucotrend 2) to eliminate inconsistencies. I set the bar at + or – 10% of the original reading. If more or less than 10%, I repeated the specific dosaging for the supplement or combination of supplements being tested. I also measured my bodytemp to see if some of the supplements possessed thermogenic qualities.

Thermometer: Philips SensorTouch. Accurate to +-0.1C Type: HF 37C CE 0344

Specific Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g) (Low Fat, high carb)

All measurements were done in the AM and/or anytime I hadn’t eaten for 12hrs, as there is NO FOOD present in the stomach after 12hrs, liver glycogen is empty, and BG levels are lowest. This is the BEST time to measure blood glucose fluctuations.

In fact, the GTT test is best performed in the AM on an empty stomach(Ask your doctor, he will verify this) (GTT=Glucose Tolerance test). Values for the blood glucose will be given according to the American system: i.e. mg/dl . This is the structure of each daily measurement.

1. Take initial BG(Blood glucose) measurement and BodyTemp.
2. Consume the SPECIFIC food and take the supplement in question at the specified dosage level.
3,4,5 and 6: Measure BG(Blood Glucose) levels at the 1 hr, 2hr, 3hr, and 4hr mark..
(Also taking bodytemp at each 1hr interval)

Supplement #1: Placebo

Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.3C (99.1F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C (99F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 40mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)
T+3hrs measurement: 74mg/dl Temp: 37.1C (98.8F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.2F (99F)

Note: This clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal. Definately made me hungry and lethargic.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

21 + 17.64 + 11.47 + 24 + 1 = 75.11 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative):0.64 + 0.47 = 1. 11 units squared

Note2: Total Area: 75.11 + 1.11 = 76.22 units squared.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.7min(5.83% Total time)

Measurement #2 of Placebo:

Intitial BG Measurement: 50mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4)
T+2hrs Measurement: 42mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.2F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C (98.2F)

Note: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

23 + 19.59 + 10.89 + 20 + 4 = 77.48 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line:-0.59 – 0.89 = -1. 43 units squared

Note2: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 78.91 units squared.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.3min(5.97% Total time)


Measurement #3 of Placebo:

Intitial BG Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 112mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 51mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

25.5 + 21.32 + 6.22 + 18 + 1 = 72.04 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line(negative):

0.82 + 1.72 = 2.54 units squared

Note: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 74.58 units squared.

Note2: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 21.03min(8.76% Total time)

Placebo Analysisositive Area Negative Area Total Area

(In Units Squared)

Measurement 1: 75.11 1.11 76.22

Measurement 2: 77.48 1.43 78.91

Measurement 3: 72.04 2.54 74.58

Mean Area: 74.88 1.69 76.57

Time in Negative BG(Approx):

Measurement 1 : 14.7min(5.83%)
Measurement 2 : 14.3min(5.97%)
Measurement 3 : 21.03min(8.76%)

Supplement #2: CLA (Tonalin) Vitamin Shoppe Brand.

Dosages: 8g, 10g, 12g. (But Tonalin is 74-82% CLA by content)

So, taking an average of 78% CLA, we get;

Dose 112g Tonalin CLA) = 9.36g CLA
Dose 210g Tonalin CLA)= 7.8g CLA
Dose 38g Tonalin CLA) = 6.24g CLA

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 12g Tonalin CLA: 9.36g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+3hrs measurement: 64mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.6C(97.9F)

Note: CLA stabilized BG levels for the 4hrs.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

6.5 + 13 + 11 + 16 + 9.5 + 16 + 3 = 75units squared.

Note: No reactive hypoglycaemia occurred like the placebo. CLA modulated the insulin surge from the pancreas, causing BG levels to not drop sharply...but instead they stabilized. This is how CLA works in diets and will be talked about later.

Dose 2: 10g Tonalin CLA: 7.8g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6 F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 66mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12 + 24 + 10.5 +19.5 + 6 + 1.5 = 73.5 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

(0.5)(6)(0.5) = 1.5 units squared

Note: Total Area: 73.5 + 1.5 = 75 units squared.

Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 4 hours.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 30 min(12.5% of time)

Dose 3: 8g Tonalin CLA: 6.24g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 76mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 104mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 120mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

14 + 28 + 8 +19.36 = 69.36 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

3 + 5 + 0.36 = 8.36 units squared

Note: Total Area: 69.36 + 8.36 = 77.72 units squared.

Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 3 hours.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial): 67.2min(28% of time)

CLA Analysis:
(Units Squared)

Positive Area Negative Area Total Area Negative BG Time

Dose 1(12g)

75 0 75 0.0

Dose 2(10g)

73.5 1.5 75 30min(12.5%)

Dose 3(8g)

69.36 8.36 77.72 67.2min(28%)


As can be clearly seen, there exists a definite correlation between the amount of CLA needed per amount of carbs ingested. The 12g CLA completely stabilized BG levels after the initial spike(CLA is a fat, so it takes time to be digested and work), and they remained stable for 4 hours. The length of my BG analysis. The 10g and 8g doses stabilized BG levels for the first 3 hours. After that, BG levels dropped to below initial levels.

Supplement #3: GLA

Dosages: 1560mg GLA, 1300mg GLA, 1040mg GLA

(These dosages come from 1300mg Borage Oil Gel Caps containing 260mg GLA per gel cap). They are from the VitaminShoppe.

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 1560mg GLA(From 7800mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 59mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 79mg/dl Temp: 36.4C(97.5F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 73mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with this dosage of GLA included w/ high GI carb meal. BG levels spiked initially during the first hour then leveled off, and remained stable for the next 3 hours. Temperature did increase 0.6F from initial measurement to T=2hrs. This is statistically significant, and will be talked about later because GLA seems to have a slight thermogenic effect. Also, total area under blood glucose curve was smaller than placebo.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12 + 13 + 5.5 + 13 + 3.5 + 14 + 3 = 64 units squared

Dose 2: 1300mg GLA(From 6500mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 81mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 101mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 94mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

Area under positive BG Curve = 18 + 20 + 8 + 13 + 3.5 + 9 + 2 = 73.5 units squared

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.
Ending BG level > Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA). Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=2hrs temp.

Dose 3: 1040mg GLA(From 5200mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 129mg/dl Temp: 37.4C(99.5F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs Measuremen 104mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+4hrs Measuremen 81mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

23 + 7 + 19.5 + 7 + 7 + 2 + 11.5 = 77 units squared.

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.
Ending BG level = Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA) and dose #2(1300mg GLA). BG fluctuations were more erratic in dose#3 than in dose #1 and #2. Seems that this is the smallest amount of GLA for the dosage of carbs ingested for BG levels not to go below initial. Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=1hr temp.

GLA Analysis:
(Units squared)

Positive Area Max Temp increase(F) Total Area

Dose 1(1560mg): 64 0.6F 64

Dose 2(1300mg): 73.5 0.5F 73.5

Dose 3(1040mg): 77 0.5F 77

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(Units Squared)

64/76.57 = 83.58% = - 17.42% reduction in BG Area
73.5/76.57 = 95.99% = - 4.01% reduction in BG Area
77/76.57 = No Net Change Seen.

Supplement #4: R-ALA

Dosages: 200mg R-ALA, 400mg R-ALA , 600mg R-ALA.
(From AF www.anabolicfitness.net)

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 200mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 110mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

20 + 10 + 15 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 55 Units Squared

Dose 2: 400mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

0.5(10) = 5 Units squared

Dose 3: 600mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

10 + 10 + 5 + 3.33 = 28.33 Units squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

5 + 2.5 + 0.83 = 8.33 Units squared

R-ALA Analysis:
(Units squared)
Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(200mg): 55.0 0.0 55.00

Dose 2(400mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

Dose 3(600mg): 28.33 8.33 36.67

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(600mg R-ALA)(36.67 Units Squared) 36.67/76.57 = (1-47.89%) = 52.11% reduction

(400mg R-ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.0/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

(200mg R-ALA)(55.00 Units Squared) 55.0/76.57 = (1-71.83%) = 28.17% reduction

Supplement #5: ALA

Dosages: 600mg ALA, 1200mg ALA , 1800mg ALA.

(These dosages come from www.kilosports.com ALA)

Kilosports: Lot# C07351

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 600mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

17.5 + 22.5 + 17.5 = 57.5 Units Squared

Dose 2: 1200mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 45 Units Squared

Dose 3: 1800mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units Squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

(0.5)(10) = 5.0 Units Squared

ALA Analysis:
(Units squared)
Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(600mg): 57.5 0.0 55.00

Dose 2(1200mg) 45.0 0.0 45.00

Dose 3(1800mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(1800mg ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.00/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

(1200mg ALA)(45.00 Units Squared) 45.00/76.57 = (1- 58.77%) = 41.23% reduction

(600mg ALA)(57.50 Units Squared) 57.50/76.57 = (1- 75.09%) = 24.91% reduction


Supplement #6: Acety-L-Carnitine

Dosages: 1000mg AlCar, 2000mg ALCar , 3000mg ALCar

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 1000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 20 + 25 + 15 = 75.0 Units Squared

Dose 2: 2000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 85mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 25 + 17.5 + 10 = 67.5 Units Squared

Dose 3: 3000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C(99.0F)
T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)
T+4hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 25 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 65.0 Units Squared

ALCar Analysis:
(Units squared)
Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(1000mg): 75.0 0.0 75.00

Dose 2(2000mg): 67.5 0.0 67.50

Dose 3(3000mg): 65.0 0.0 65.00

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(3000mg ALCar)(65.00 Units Squared) 65.00/76.57 =(1-84.89%) = 15.11% reduction

(2000mg ALCar)(67.50 Units Squared) 67.50/76.57 =(1-88.15%) = 11.85% reduction

(1000mg ALCar)(75.00 Units Squared) 75.00/76.57 =(1-97.95%) = 2.05% reduction


Conclusions:

Mechanisms via how you can manipulate nutrient partitioning....i.e. Insulin levels/Blood Glucose levels.

a)Non-insulin mediated glucose partitioning(Or if you prefer disposal). These types of supplements(For example R-ALA and Acetyl-L-Carnitine) work INDEPENDENT of insulin. They have little effect on its release or degradation in the bloodstream. What they do, is increase translocation of intra-cellular Glut-4’s(Glucose Transporters) to the outside of the cellular membrane albeit in the adipocytes(fat cells) and miocytes(muscle cells). The net result, is that more glucose is diverted to the miocytes, and less to the adipocytes. In hypocaloric diets, this means, more fat-loss, and better muscle preservation. In hypercaloric diets, this means more muscle gain, and less fat gain.
b) Insulin mediated glucose partitioning(or disposal). These types of supplements actually influence AA transport b/c they work through insulin signalling pathways. CLA is a good example. CLA works by increasing AA and glucose transport into the muscle cells via insulin stimulated pathways, and therefore in hypocaloric diets acts as an anti-catabolic. CLA
also keeps blood glucose levels more stable. In essence preventing preventing high blood glucose or hypoglycaemia after a carb meal.
c)Non-stimulating thermogenics. GLA. In order to explain a bit how GLA works, I will briefly explain what prostaglandins are.

Series 1 Prostaglandins = Good(PgF2A)( Anabolic) They are incredibly thermogenic and help build muscle.
Series 2 Prostaglandins = Bad(PgE2)(Catabolic) They break down protein.
Series 1 and 2 produced by your cells always at a 1:1 ratio.
Series 3 Prostaglandins block the production of series 2.
Series 1 and 2 Prostaglandins are made from the essential fatty acid Linoleic Acid.
Linoleic Acid = Omega-6 Fatty Acid .
Linolenic Acid(Alpha-linolenic acid) is an Omega-3 fatty Acid Series 3 Prostaglandins are derived from this acid.
GLA = Omega-6 Fatty Acid (Gamma-Linolenic Acid) This BLOCKS series 2 Prostaglandins.
By Blocking series 2 prostaglandins, GLA shifts the normal 1:1 Prostaglandin ratio to the PgF2A(Anabolic) side. In essence, promoting thermogenesis. As can be shown in my study of GLA. Its anabolic effects were not measured(As this is also a direct consequence of a positive PgF2A environment) .

These explanations for the different workings of each substance can be seen to be true when one compares each to the Placebo measurements.


Comparison to Placebo(GLA):

Placebo:

Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
Total Area: 76.57 units squared

GLA:

Dose 1(1040mg): Area: 77.00 Units squared
Dose 2(1300mg): Area: 73.50 Units squared
Dose 3(1560mg): Area: 64.00 Units squared

1560mg GLA = 64 Units squared.
Placebo total Area average: 76.57 Units squared

Reduction in Total Area: ((76.57 – 64)/ 76.57) = 16.42% reduction
Temp increase: +0.6F

GLA caused a reduction in the area under the blood glucose curve by diverting some of the calories ingested into heat energy i.e. increasing the meals thermogenic value.

Comparison to Placebo(CLA):

Placebo:

Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
Total Area: 76.57 units squared

CLA:

Dose 1(12g): Area: 75.00 Units squared
Dose 2(10g): Area: 75.00 Units squared(1.5 negative)
Dose 3(8g): Area: 77.72 Units squared(8.36 negative)

Comparison to Placebo(R-ALA):

Placebo:

Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
Total Area: 76.57 units squared

R-ALA

Dose 1(200mg): 55.00 Units Squared
Dose 2(400mg): 40.00 Units Squared(5.00 Negative)
Dose 3(600mg): 36.67 Units Squared(8.33 Negative)

Comparison to Placebo(ALA):

Placebo:

Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
Total Area: 76.57 units squared

ALA

Dose 1 (600mg): 57.50 Units Squared
Dose 2(1200mg): 45.00 Units Squared
Dose 3(1800mg): 40.00 Units Squared(5.00 Negative)

Both ALA and R-ALA decreased the area under the blood glucose curve significantly. This is due to an increase in both glucose uptake and glucose oxidation.

Comparison to Placebo(Acetyl-L-Carnitine):

Placebo:

Mean Area(Average): 74.88 units squared
Negative Area: 1.69 units squared
Total Area: 76.57 units squared

Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Dose 1 (1000mg): 75.00 Units Squared
Dose 2 (2000mg): 67.50 Units Squared
Dose 3 (3000mg): 65.00 Units Squared

Acetyl-L-Carnitine caused a moderate reduction in the area under the blood glucose curve.

Fonz


You know what you are KAYNE?

Jealous. Completely and utterly jealous. And you just can't stand it.

Well, you better learn to deal with it, b/c there are far more intelligent people than I that can squash your primitive intelligence like a bug.

Fonz

 

[Lumberg]

Hi,

Well although I think Nelson is right, Fonz is saying that muscle growth DOES occur in 2 to 3 weeks but rather nerve adaptation does not, resulting in muscle loss afterwards. The body simply cannot `hold` the muscle, according to Fonz of course.

Just wanted to say that since Nelson was writing like Fonz was saying muscle growth doesn`t occur at all in the first 2/3 weeks.

But sure, how can all those people who have done 3 weekers and held the muscle be wrong. I think Nelson himself is 40 pounds over his natural weight and hasen`t done gear in six years! Isn`t that proof? Along with everyone else, one example is never scientifically enough

Yes but I believe he is on an HRT type of regimen so you can't say hes hasen't done gear.

 

[KAYNE]

HERE IS A COPY/PASTE REPLY FROM THE OTHER THREAD ABOUT SELLING STEROIDS.......YOU HAD IT EDITED TO REMOVE YOUR NAME SO I'M REPOSTING IT.



I DONT THINK HE HAS SOLD ANY, BUT FONZ HAS DONE MORE STEROIDS THAN YOUR AVERAGE TERMINALLY ILL CANCER PATIENT.

AND STILL ONLY WEIGHS 200LBS.

 

[KAYNE]

YES, THATS COPY AND PASTE INTELLIGENCE.

 

[KAYNE]

I DONT THINK HE HAS SOLD ANY, BUT FONZ HAS DONE MORE STEROIDS THAN YOUR AVERAGE TERMINALLY ILL CANCER PATIENT.

AND STILL ONLY WEIGHS 200LBS.

 

[Fonz]

How about this cut and paste:

The 7-day DNP fat loss inferno cycle:

The 7-day DNP fat loss inferno cycle involves a moderate to high dosage of DNP for fat burning. The DNP fat loss inferno involves a 7-day on, 7-day off approach with four distinct phases. Most athletes using DNP follow this type of cycle. The phases are as follows:

Phase 1: The 3-day Carb-Depletion Phase.
Phase 2: The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase.
Phase 3: The 14-day DNP Inferno Phase.
Phase 4: The 2-day Post-DNP Phase.

Phase 1. The 3-day Carb-depletion phase
Phase One has a three-day duration and begins the four days preceding the ingestion of DNP. The purpose of this phase is to deplete muscle-glycogen content by restricting carbohydrates. This is achieved through a Ketogenic style diet.

Kcals should be restricted to 10-12 times bodyweight in lbs. And carbohydrates should be restricted to less than 60g/day. Protein is consumed at 1 gram per pound of bodyweight or higher and the remaining dietary calories should come from fat.

This phase lasts exactly 3 days, and will reduce muscle-glycogen levels so that the body is forced to rely on fat as fuel more readily when you start your DNP cycle.

Phase 2 The 1-day Thyroxine (T3) Re-normalization Phase
This is a new concept for DNP dieting. During the past three days, the athlete has restricted carbohydrates and as a direct consequence T4-T3 conversion is slowed down resulting in reduced T3 levels. This is bad for the DNP phase, as you need enough active T3 to last throughout the entire 7-day on DNP phase.

Day four of the DNP cycle involves a mega-carbohydrate meal at mid-afternoon (4-6PM) designed to create a massive insulin spike and re-normalize T4-T3. This concept has been extrapolated from ketogenic diets and has been shown to dramatically increase serum concentrations of T3.

Day 4 involves Keto eating until the Mega-carb meal. Then in the late afternoon, at least circa 250g of carbohydrates must be consumed to create an insulin spike. Any sugar (fructose, sucrose, maltose etc.) is fair game. Fructose in particular is good because it primarily re-fills liver glycogen which is directly involved in T4-T3 conversion. (Empty liver glycogen signals the thyroid to decrease T4-T3 conversion).

As a side-note, a 250g carb-meal after three days of Keto dieting creates a more pronounced insulin spike than would a 250g carb-meal after three days of normal eating.

Kcals during Phase 2 should be kept at 15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs can be calculated by the athlete. The only carb intake on day 4 should be the 250g carb-meal.

Phase 3 The 14-Day DNP Phase

The first two days of actual DNP consumption are the most important to follow correctly. During Days 1 and 2 of the actual DNP portion of the cycle, it must be determined if the athlete will have an allergic reaction to DNP.

Day 1: 200 mg of DNP is ingested
Day 2: 200 mg of DNP is ingested

At this point the dieter should be able to assess if an allergic reaction has occurred. A DNP-stimulated allergic reaction will lead to swelling in as little as 1 to 2 days time. Approximately 10% of athletes will have such a reaction. The unfortunate few who experience this type of a reaction must terminate the cycle immediately. Benadryl or Ketotifen (Anti-histamines) can be used to treat mild symptoms. Obviously a doctor should be consulted should the symptoms prove more severe.

Day 3: Dieters making it to day 3 of the DNP phase have the option of increasing their dosage. The normal dosage for beginners is 400mg DNP/day. Even an amount this small should provide outstanding results. A word of caution. DO NOT TAKE MORE, if you are not experienced with DNP-use. More advanced users may chose to go higher based on past experience.
The 400mg/day dosage is maintained from Day 3 through Day 9(Exactly 7 days). The last dose is taken on Day 9.

Supplementation and Nutritional Protocol for a DNP cycle:

1. An ECA stack is beneficial while on a DNP cycle as it as it acts as an anorectant. DNP raises Neuro-peptide Y levels in the brain, which is directly linked to increased hunger. Consuming 75-100mg total of ephedrine alkaloids/day should be sufficient to suppress appetite. PPA (Nor-ephedrine) should NOT be used as it causes lethargy when combined with DNP.

2. Anti-oxidants. Due to the DNP induced rapid combustion of fats, free-radical production skyrockets up-wards. To combat this, anti-oxidants must be used. Anti-oxidants are the single most important supplement to take on a DNP cycle.

a) Fat-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin E: 1000mgs/day
b) Water-soluble Anti-O: Vitamin C: 2-3g/day
c) Alpha Lipoic acid: 600-1000mgs/day

Dual-anti-oxidant: BOTH fat & water-soluble actually re-cycles other anti-oxidants.

3. Glycerol: Although optional, glycerol is often consumed at 15ml's 3X/day. Glycerol increases hydration for many athletes.
No additional supplements are really required other than these three. All the rest you have read in various DNP articles are more for peace of mind than improved functionality. I consider them overkill.

4. Water: Not a supplement, but an absolute necessity.
DNP causes sweating and can be incredibly dehydrating. Dehydration is the NUMBER ONE cause of most DNP problems and deaths. Excessive dehydration results in over-heating. Dieters who do not replenish fluids properly while on a DNP cycle could die. The consensus among athletes is that at least two gallons of water must be consumed daily.

5. EAT FRUIT while on your DNP cycle.

Fruit for some reason has been found to greatly reduce the lethargy associated with a DNP cycle. It also has a high water content, therefore it helps to keep the dieter hydrated. Watermelon is an obvious recommendation.

6. Dietary intake: There are several schools of thought on this matter, but sticking to the old standard always works.
Kcals should be kept anywhere from 10-15X Bodyweight in lbs. Macro-nutrient break-downs should be kept at around 20% fat, 30% protein and 50% carbs. (Changing the ratios in favor of more carbs and protein w/ less fat will result in a more fat loss but nothing special. Also, remember that more carbohydrates means more heat.)

Take for example the 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder. He would consume anywhere from 2200 to 3300Kcal /day (Depending on his appetite control).

WHAT NOT TO DO on a DNP cycle.

a) Do not under any circumstances consume alcohol or ANY type of diuretic while on a DNP cycle. Alcohol and diuretics will dehydrate you and can cause SERIOUS problems.
b) Do not remain in a hot environment without replenishing fluid loss due to perspiration. This too can also cause SERIOUS problems.
c) Do not begin with a high dosage of DNP if you are a novice. This is just asking for a trip to the ICU.

The half-life of 2,4 Dinitrophenol is 36 hours. So, after 36 hours, there is only 50% of the DNP remaining in your system. Therefore, 72 hours later 25% remains. Then 12.5% remains after 108 hours. After 5 days (120 hours), there's roughly 9% of the DNP left in your body that you had on Day 9. This DNP concentration is low-enough to allow you to begin Phase 4 of the cycle -- the 2-day Post-DNP phase -- without compromising glycogen synthesis rates. Kcals during Days 10-14 should remain the same as during days 3-9.

Phase 4: The 2 day Post DNP Phase.

The whole purpose of this phase is to get muscle-glycogen levels back to normal. The Ketogenic carb-up can be used as a sort of template for this phase.

After Phases two and three, muscle-glycogen levels are depressed and need to be replenished.

Day 15: Carb-intake should be 7g/Kg of LBM (lean body mass = bodyweight minus body fat.) So assuming a 220 lb bodybuilder has 0% body fat, lol, he would consume 700 g of Carbs. Protein-intake remains at 1g/lb and fat is restricted as low as possible.
The focus on day 1 should be on High-GI foods like Fat-free Ice-cream and all the other non-fat high sugar desserts. Calories should be around 4000 for the 220-lb bodybuilder -- in other words, 18X bodyweight in lbs.

Drastically restricting fat is CRITICAL here, as the body is still burning fat for fuel as you replenish your glycogen stores. In essence, the dieter is still losing fat while carbing up.

Day 16: Muscle-glycogen has increased, so carb-intake should be decreased from day one’s 7g/Kg to only 5g/Kg of LBM. That would be 500g for our 220-lb bodybuilder. Protein is 1g/lb again. Fat remains as low as possible. Kcals for the dieter are reduced to 3000 Kcal range, or around 14X Bodyweight in lbs. The focus of Day 2 should be low-GI foods like vegetables, milk, lean meats etc.

Additional Precautions:

Dieters feeling extremely nauseated or who vomit during a cycle should discontinue use immediately and not restart for at least 36 hours.

Dieters should carry a pocket thermometer at all times. If body temperature rises above 102 Fahrenheit then the dosage should be lowered or the cycles should be terminated. Additionally, the dieter should take a very cold bath to lower the temperature.
In addition to water, V8 juice should be consumed. Drinking gallons of water depletes the body of electrolytes pretty badly predisposing the dieter to shock, nausea, lethargy, and even death. V8 is the best for replenishing electrolytes as it contains 950mg of potassium per 8oz compared to Gatorade’s 35mg of potassium in 8oz.

Massive amounts of fruits and sweets should be consumed if one becomes nauseated or vomits – i.e. force feed yourself.
Dieters should never allow themselves to become overheated on a DNP cycle. Always stay next to a fan and keep the air conditioner on. Do not attempt a DNP cycle if you work out doors in a warm climate or another warm environment like a kitchen. Even at low doses this can build up and be potentially dangerous.

There are two versions of DNP – regular and crystalline. Know which one you are taking. When taking the crystalline DNP caps, never take more than 200mg at once if you've never used it before. Even if you are used to it, it is still much safer to spread the dosage throughout the day. Crystalline DNP is much faster acting and can rapidly elevate temperature.

Post-Steroid Cycle Use of DNP

One of the primary causes of muscle breakdown after a steroid cycle is suppressed TSH. Anabolic steroids suppress TSH, which in turn lowers T3 and T4 production by the thyroid gland. The reduction in TSH is one reason that anabolic steroids are such excellent muscle builders.

Soon after the completion of a steroid cycle, TSH up-regulates, which in turn super-stimulates the thyroid. This excess stimulation causes the thyroid to produce above normal levels of T3 and T4. This increase in thyroid hormones is highly catabolic and is the main reason why people lose muscle post-cycle.

Athletes have learned that they need to restrict T3 production post cycle to prevent muscle loss. A novel approach to achieving this goal is the use of DNP. About 80% of the body’s endogenous T3 is produced from the metabolically inactive T4 to the metabolically active T3. The de-iodinase enzyme is responsible for this conversion. It literally cleaves off an iodine molecule.
By ingesting 200mg DNP/day, the athlete can correct the over stimulated Thyroid, returning T3 levels back to normal. DNP directly blocks the production of T3 from T4 via the de-iodinase enzyme.

As a bonus, the reduction in your ATP stores because of the DNP is counter acted by an increase in the oxidation of triglycerides as an energy source. The benefit is the elimination of any potential fat-gain from the low post-cycle testosterone levels. And as DNP is non-hormonal, it has no effect on HPTA recovery.

After cessation of DNP use post-cycle, the athlete will reap the benefits of the "Anabolic Rebound Effect" which further lends credence to the use of DNP as a post-cycle ancillary for the elimination of any post-cycle muscular losses.





Yep....I'm a total cut&paster.

Do you want me to keep posting and posting my threads which btw are probably the standard as to what people follow today?

I will obliterate your sorry existence from this chat board b/c I seriously dislike people like yourself who WHINE, WHINE, about their inadequacies.

WORK at it you baboon. Then maybe...you'll get somewehere.

Until then, you'll only be a useless tool.

Fonz

 

[KAYNE]

I HOPE YOU OVERDOSE ON DNP. THAT WOULD BE GREAT LARRY.

 

[KAYNE]

LARRY.......YOURE ACTING LIKE I'M READING YOUR CUT/PASTE JOB!!! GO SHOOT SOME MORE FINA IN THAT PELLET GUN YOU HAVE.......FUCKING MORON.

 

[Fonz]

Thanks for proving my case KAYNE.

You're a useless tool..that has just proven it to everybody for the upteenth time.

And to think I actually vetoed your banning once.....lol

NO more...........you'll eventually be banned by your own inability to control your ridiculous psyche.

Fonz

 

[KAYNE]

FONZ......I'M EATING A BIG BOWL OF CHOCOLATE ICE CREAM TOPPED WITH MAGIC SHELL AND WHIPPED CREAM. I JUST CAME FROM A BIRTHDAY PARTY WHERE ATE HALF THE CAKE. I EAT SHIT LIKE THIS EACH AND EVERYDAY. I'VE NVR DIETED A DAY IN MY LIFE. I HAVE ALL MY ABS AND VEINS. I'M A COMFORTABLE 10-11% PERPETUALLY.

HOW ABOUT YOU? HOW MUCH STEROIDS AND DIETING HAVE YOU DONE???

 

[Lumberg]

Some people are just blessed with good genetics and recover quicker than others so the gains they make are more sustainable post cycle. I would venture to guess that would apply more to you than most people here. For the vast majority, short cycles are completely ineffective. I bet if you were to average it out over a year the gains you make and keep from longer cycles would far outweigh those made from shorter cycles.

You know, I'm not so sure about that. Let's make a couple of assumptions.

1) Time off=2x time on

2) Same doses of gear

You could do 2 ten-weekers. You would crash hard after each one. You could hope to keep as much as possible with ancillaries but at the end of week 10 your nuts are going to be in a state of deep hibernation.

You could do about 8 or 9 two weekers. You would recover your HPTA much quicker of course sides would be almost a non-issue.

 

[Fonz]

FONZ......I'M EATING A BIG BOWL OF CHOCOLATE ICE CREAM TOPPED WITH MAGIC SHELL AND WHIPPED CREAM. I JUST CAME FROM A BIRTHDAY PARTY WHERE ATE HALF THE CAKE. I EAT SHIT LIKE THIS EACH AND EVERYDAY. I'VE NVR DIETED A DAY IN MY LIFE. I HAVE ALL MY ABS AND VEINS. I'M A COMFORTABLE 10-11% PERPETUALLY.

HOW ABOUT YOU? HOW MUCH STEROIDS AND DIETING HAVE YOU DONE???

Almost never.

I've adapted to eating healthily to be at my best athletically....like all athletes. Its a lifestyle. SOmething you do not seem to comprehend, nor ever will by the looks of it.

There's always time to party AFTER the games and practices. And I've had my fair share of that in my life.

Now its time to become a contributing member of society. My teenage years are behind me.

It does not look like you will be entering maturity in the near future from the looks of it. I really feel sorry for you in that regard. You're like a high school kid who thinks he has the answers to all the questions, yet he does not even know what questions to ask.

So sad.

Fonz

 

[KAYNE]

SO I DONT EAT AS HEALTHY AS YOU.........THAT MAKES ME A NON-CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY!!! LMFAO!!!

I DONT HAVE TO EAT HEALTHY NOR DO THE AMOUNT OF STEROIDS YOU DO..........AND I STILL STAY IN GREAT SHAPE LARRY!!! ITS NOT ABOUT BEING A TEEN OR ANY OTHER AGE MORON.

GO PLAY IN SOME HEAVY 405 TRAFFIC WHENEVER YOU GET A CHANCE LARRY. PLEASE.

 

[Lumberg]

There's plenty of research out there. However, I'm not your personal(nor nobodies) reserach machine.

#1 There are muscle growth factors right?

#2 There are Nerve Growth Factors right?

Well, to a NORMAL AAS user w/o access to very expensive drugs that have ben synthesized in the lab, cycles involving short periods(2-3 weeks)...this is what happens:

#2(NGF's(Nerve Growth Factors) are far slower than their muscular counter-parts..#1(MGF'sMuscular Growth factors).

So, your nerves cannot adapt to the muscular growth you have caused your body to achieve. Now, this is obviously for 2-3 weeks.

And I'm not talking about water weight...or even muscular tissue.

I'm talking about use. Can you USE YOUR extra musculature to the same ability as before?

The answer is no. Your nerves have not adapted.

There is avery good reason(albeit at the time they had no clue) why cycles were normally always kept in the 8-12 week range. Sme exceptional people can get away with 6 or so, but they are more than likely geneticallt gifted.

During the 8-12 week mark, your NGF's(Nerve Growth Factors) are able to adapt to your muscle gain, and you have the same capacity/usage with them as before..e.xcept you're more than likely stronger, quicker, etc.... Key word for this post ADAPTATION. Certain biological parts of your body take longer to adapt to external stimulae than others.

Now, I would love to see Nelson an Co. refute this b/c the simple answer is they can't. And I'm simply tired of trying to actually teach you something about how you can make better gains.

SO....if you want to follow Nelson..please do. I have no financial interest in this...while he does...which should open your eyes a little.

Fonz

It sounds to me like the neuro factor is what is involved in muscle memory.

But what I don't get Fonz, is that you are not denying that muscle gain occurs in short cycles. But are you denying that strength gains also occur? Because I know from experience that strength gains can and do start in the first week.

So what I'm not getting is, how is it that your body somehow has the nervous system adaptation to use that new muscle while "on" but you lose it all of a sudden when you go off?