Why is patriotism almost always equated to war?

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

You're touching on the leader, manager, follower dynamic. The leader creates the vision, the managers work to bring the vision to fruition and the followers do most of the dying.

I was talking to a political activist about this topic. It seems like this dynamic takes precedence over the ideals that install this dynamic. In order for a movement of any kind to take place, you need to rally masses of motto muttering, unthinking people.

He believes that he can use the strength of what he views as his rational arguments to get a movement underway. When has that been the case throughout history? Has there been a 'thinkingman's revolution'?

 

[sugashane]

I could never effectively go to war. I would likely wet myself on the battlefield, patriot or not.

I was in the Army for a brief stint. I always felt like you do, but I realized that I started to WANT to go fight. When common sense kicked it (IE WTF am I thinking???) I analyzed what we had done and trained in and realized how they (the military) classically condition you into believing that fighting in war is noble, heroic, ect. Its almost like a brainwashing. After realizing that I got the hell out.

 

[javaguru]

I was talking to a political activist about this topic. It seems like this dynamic takes precedence over the ideals that install this dynamic. In order for a movement of any kind to take place, you need to rally masses of motto muttering, unthinking people.

He believes that he can use the strength of what he views as his rational arguments to get a movement underway. When has that been the case throughout history? Has there been a 'thinkingman's revolution'?

I think JFK is a testament to how to motivate people to achieve an objective that seems unattainable without violence and murder. You are correct in the sense, for all of history, you need to motivate the unwashed masses to your banner.

 

[big_bad_buff]

Here in the USA, even our national anthem was written during a war about war. That's why I tell people I'm not patriotic.

because thats what we do, we are the land of the free and we like to blow the hell out of other countries and take their shit. what?

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

I think JFK is a testament to how to motivate people to achieve an objective that seems unattainable without violence and murder. You are correct in the sense, for all of history, you need to motivate the unwashed masses to your banner.

I think you can create a successful, non-violent political movement (People Power in the Philippines, Ghandi in India), but it doesn't happen without the sheep. The sheep aren't always violent, but they are always sheep.

 

[plifter]

I don't think plifter is saying that. I think that he is observing that people must 'prove' their patriotism by coping the front that they are willing to die for their nation and the only avenue some people find to express patriotic thought is through reverence for war.

I think plifter feels that this is an incorrect way to look at patriotism and has shunned the label 'patriot' due to the assumption of others that patriotism can only be exercised as an act of war.

Exactly!

 

[Razorguns]

Because this country was created via strength, defense and war.

The root. Without it, NOTHING would've resulted and we'd all be still in Europe wearing geigh wigs (tho pick3 would be happy).

r

 

[plifter]

Honestly, I live in the USA because I was born here, have family here, went to school here, and I have a career here. However, I'm not going to go off to some foreign land and invade them "for our freedom" as our leaders explain it to the sheep. The reality is that our country has for the most part been ruled by white men who want to have their names portrayed with the likes of Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson in USA history books. I'm not going to fight for someone else's ego. When Iraqi infantry are running through my neighborhood, I'll gladly pick off as many as I can with my SKS rifle.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Patriotism is the virtue of the Vicious

- Oscar Wilde

 

[plifter]

The one thing you need to keep in mind is that when you go to war out of patriotism, your enemy is likely going to be just as patriotic to their country and ideals. Look at all the sheep that followed Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. etc. They were patriotic. Maybe patriotism isn't such a great virtue.