whats the idea with wearing belts?

[ExtraMile]

OK, I was at the gym today, alright workout, not bad but I had hang cleans, followed by squats so I was in the squat rack for a while. There was this big guy, PWR's kinda shape maybe not quite that big but along those lines, a little bit of chub (no offence big guy lol) but very thick. First he was behind the neck pressin around 200lbs for reps. Then he wanted to use the safety bars for his shrugs. He was helpin me on squat form, I dropped some squat weight to concentrate on form and he said it was good, although he said I should be wearin a belt. He said for all exercises that utilise the back a belt should be worn. I told him that basically wearing a belt all the time leads to a weak core and that covering up the problem of a weak core wont fix it. "How come all the powerlifters wear them then?" he said. I said because in competition they are going all out, I dont go below 5 reps and I dont go to failure on big lifts. He said its all bullshit and if it was his gym then I wouldnt be allowed to squat heavy without a belt he said obviously dont wear it for curls and shit but any heavy lift were the back is used at all. Anyway he went on to shrug around 550-600lbs. We talked lifting for a while and he told me my barbell rows were dangerous cuz my upperbody wasnt completely still. I was trying barbell rows cuz Im gettin bored of Pendlays so yes I admit maybe my form wasnt perfect cuz I hadnt done them for months. But I wondered how moving the back up a little whilst pullin the bar can be bad? Its just like rowing a boat?

How much of what he said is true? Alot of people on here say not to wear a belt....


Edit: and he also told me to stop doin BB Rows and he either said do 1 arm machine rows or 1 arm DB rows, Im not sure, he pointed and said "you see that over there?" and I thought he meant the T-Bar but I asked him and he said "no that!" and pointed towards a machine which had a bench next to it and said u should do rows on that that but just do them one arm. So idk.

 

[bblazer]

I wear a belt on squats and DLs when I hit the 225-305 mark. I do it for 2 reasons.

1) The belt itself gives some support.

2) It helps with "blocking."

When I say blocking, I am saying that it give me something to push against as I brace my core for the lift.

Big breath in. Then lock up your core and in doing so brace against the belt to sort of "lock" everything into place.

To a lesser extent, for me the belt helps keep an arch to my back.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

I wear a belt on squats and DLs when I hit the 225-305 mark. I do it for 2 reasons.

1) The belt itself gives some support.

The other reason?

 

[Big_BK]

All it is going to do is give you extra support. No real reason to go heavy then to avoid injury but if your form is good it wont happen.

 

[Big_BK]

YouTube - Johnie Jackson Deadlifting

 

[bblazer]

The other reason?

Read my post again. You caught me in mid-edit. I prematurely posted.

B-

 

[lockdownd7]

Lol. Guy preaching safety doing behind the neck presses. Irony much?

Belts ensure that you'll never develop core strength. Powerlifters wear them because they can increase the poundage you lift, which is all they care about.

Moral of the story - don't listen to people at the gym.

 

[bblazer]

Lol. Guy preaching safety doing behind the neck presses. Irony much?

Belts ensure that you'll never develop core strength. Powerlifters wear them because they can increase the poundage you lift, which is all they care about.

Moral of the story - don't listen to people at the gym.

Please prove the statement in bold.

B-

 

[*The_West*]

Moral of the story - don't listen to people at the gym.

lol, how very true. even if they are big, it doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

 

[bblazer]

Lol. Guy preaching safety doing behind the neck presses. Irony much?

Belts ensure that you'll never develop core strength. Powerlifters wear them because they can increase the poundage you lift, which is all they care about.

Moral of the story - don't listen to people at the gym.

If you don't mind, please take a whack at helping me believe this additional bolded statement? Are you talking like a bench shirt or squat suit?

Also, how much more can I expect to hoist when I wear a belt?

B-

 

[lockdownd7]

Please prove the statement in bold.

B-

Come on, now. Is it really necessary to overanalyze everything to that extent? Ya, you can obviously develop core strength through other means. But good luck doing a 600 beltless deadlift if you've always worn a belt from the time you DL'd 135. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[ExtraMile]

Lol. Guy preaching safety doing behind the neck presses. Irony much?

Belts ensure that you'll never develop core strength. Powerlifters wear them because they can increase the poundage you lift, which is all they care about.

Moral of the story - don't listen to people at the gym.

Lol I do behind the neck presses to, I find them fine on my shoulders, I also do rotator cuff work tho and Iv been fine for now. Exept he was doin them in the smith machine lol

So I shouldnt wear my belt?

 

[lockdownd7]

Lol I do behind the neck presses to, I find them fine on my shoulders, I also do rotator cuff work tho and Iv been fine for now. Exept he was doin them in the smith machine lol

So I shouldnt wear my belt?

Save belts for when you need to keep your pants up. Otherwise, there's very few reasons to wear one.

 

[SouthernLord]

Lol I do behind the neck presses to, I find them fine on my shoulders, I also do rotator cuff work tho and Iv been fine for now. Exept he was doin them in the smith machine lol

So I shouldnt wear my belt?

Use your belt when pulling or squatting your max sets. Don't use them for your warm up sets and there is no need to use them on any lift other than squat/dead or variations of. Continue to train your trunk (low back, abds, obliques) and you will be fine. Do not use the belt as a crutch or in place of proper form.

As BBlazer said learn to "brace" yourself with your belt. You should be taking a deep breath into your belly, not your chest and pushing your ab muscles into the belt to stabilize your trunk. Never lose your low back arch when squatting or pulling in a belt or otherwise.

some people are anti-belt, just as some people are anti-squat, and anti-carb, etc. Everyone has there own opinion and preferences and it is best to establish your own thoughts and beliefs. You will never know unless you try. Good luck young one

 

[ExtraMile]

Use your belt when pulling or squatting your max sets. Don't use them for your warm up sets and there is no need to use them on any lift other than squat/dead or variations of. Continue to train your trunk (low back, abds, obliques) and you will be fine. Do not use the belt as a crutch or in place of proper form.

As BBlazer said learn to "brace" yourself with your belt. You should be taking a deep breath into your belly, not your chest and pushing your ab muscles into the belt to stabilize your trunk. Never lose your low back arch when squatting or pulling in a belt or otherwise.

some people are anti-belt, just as some people are anti-squat, and anti-carb, etc. Everyone has there own opinion and preferences and it is best to establish your own thoughts and beliefs. You will never know unless you try. Good luck young one

OK just one question, you said only use them on my "max sets" what do you mean by this? Work sets? Sets that are going to failure? Or what?

 

[bblazer]

Save belts for when you need to keep your pants up. Otherwise, there's very few reasons to wear one.

I'm sorry.

But I have to say that this is some of the worst advice I have heard here in a long time.

I have asked you to prove your statements. You haven't. Now you are telling a 13 yo kid to not use one of the most fundamental pieces of equipment there is.

ExtraMile, I suggest that you really not listen to this until at least he provides something that backs up what I have asked him to, and then make an informed choice.

I really don't want this (and will not participate in) to turn into a flame war. But this advice is dangerous and wrong.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

I'm sorry.

But I have to say that this is some of the worst advice I have heard here in a long time.

I have asked you to prove your statements. You haven't. Now you are telling a 13 yo kid to not use one of the most fundamental pieces of equipment there is. Bitch Im 14. LOL

ExtraMile, I suggest that you really not listen to this until at least he provides something that backs up what I have asked him to, and then make an informed choice.

I really don't want this (and will not participate in) to turn into a flame war. But this advice is dangerous and wrong.

B-

Yeah well to be honest, I dont know who to listen to, people say differant things everywere. That big guy tho didnt believe me traps were a back muscle he said they were part of your shuolders LOL. He was shruggin on back day and I asked him why and he said cuz there a shoulder muscle. I was like wtf did you know the run 2/3 of the way down your back and he goes yeh well there part of the shoulder. He told be he trains back the next day also and I said thats purely stupid going into a back day with fatigues traps.

 

[bblazer]

OK, ok, you're 14. My bad.

B-

 

[SouthernLord]

OK just one question, you said only use them on my "max sets" what do you mean by this? Work sets? Sets that are going to failure? Or what?

Say for example you are working up doing 5 sets of 5 and your last set would be 225. Use your belt on that last set. Maybe even wear it loosely on the set before and then tighten it down for your final set. Don't over analyze this though. If you feel you don't need the belt, then don't use it. It will help you if you learn to use it properly. You will be surprised how much stronger you feel on those final sets, even though your low back is fatigued from the warm ups. You might even be able to Squat and Pull significantly more weight with the belt. Again, check your ego and do not get too far ahead of yourself. DO NOT USE THE BELT AS A CRUTCH. It is a tool to keep you safe on limit sets.

 

[lockdownd7]

I'm sorry.

But I have to say that this is some of the worst advice I have heard here in a long time.

I have asked you to prove your statements. You haven't. Now you are telling a 13 yo kid to not use one of the most fundamental pieces of equipment there is.

ExtraMile, I suggest that you really not listen to this until at least he provides something that backs up what I have asked him to, and then make an informed choice.

I really don't want this (and will not participate in) to turn into a flame war. But this advice is dangerous and wrong.

B-

Fundamental to whom? Powerlifters? I'm sorry that everyone is not a PL......

Tell me the danger in not wearing a belt. Seriously. Tell me how a natural, fundamental human movement such as squatting or standing up is inherently dangerous and requires support. Tell me how a belt saves you if your form is terrible.

In fact, I'd argue that a belt is more dangerous. By artificially strengthening the core, a lifter can use more weight than his body could safely handle on its own.

Probably the only situation where a belt would truly be advisable would be if your core is your weak link that's limiting how effectively you can train your legs (similar to how grip is often a limiting factor on DLs). Even in that situation, you'd want to just use it on a temporary basis while you strengthen your core.

 

[lockdownd7]

Oh, also, to anyone who wants to explore this topic in more depth than I have the time or willingness to to discuss here, I recommend you check out this excellent article from Stuart McGill:

On The Use of Weight Belts

 

[ExtraMile]

Fundamental to whom? Powerlifters? I'm sorry that everyone is not a PL......

Tell me the danger in not wearing a belt. Seriously. Tell me how a natural, fundamental human movement such as squatting or standing up is inherently dangerous and requires support. Tell me how a belt saves you if your form is terrible.

In fact, I'd argue that a belt is more dangerous. By artificially strengthening the core, a lifter can use more weight than his body could safely handle on its own.

Probably the only situation where a belt would truly be advisable would be if your core is your weak link that's limiting how effectively you can train your legs (similar to how grip is often a limiting factor on DLs). Even in that situation, you'd want to just use it on a temporary basis while you strengthen your core.

That does actually seem to make alot of sense. Iv always wondered how people can say shit like bad things about squats and deads when they are such a natural movement...

Although bro, I am actually kinda a powerlifter, I lift heavy, but stay within a reasonable rep range at my age - usually 5-8 rep range with a few things more like 10-15 reps eg cable crossovers, forearm, calf and ab work

 

[ExtraMile]

Say for example you are working up doing 5 sets of 5 and your last set would be 225. Use your belt on that last set. Maybe even wear it loosely on the set before and then tighten it down for your final set. Don't over analyze this though. If you feel you don't need the belt, then don't use it. It will help you if you learn to use it properly. You will be surprised how much stronger you feel on those final sets, even though your low back is fatigued from the warm ups. You might even be able to Squat and Pull significantly more weight with the belt. Again, check your ego and do not get too far ahead of yourself. DO NOT USE THE BELT AS A CRUTCH. It is a tool to keep you safe on limit sets.

Ah ok bro, thanks. 225x5 is a few more months down the line for me now tho, I dropped down to 187lbs to adjust form and lower those safeties and shit, harder than I thought, I guess 198lbs is gonna be my workset next Monday when I do heavy squats and Ill just build it up from there...

 

[SouthernLord]

Ah ok bro, thanks. 225x5 is a few more months down the line for me now tho, I dropped down to 187lbs to adjust form and lower those safeties and shit, harder than I thought, I guess 198lbs is gonna be my workset next Monday when I do heavy squats and Ill just build it up from there...

Thse numbers were just an example.

Keep practicing that form and the weight will come. You are doing a great job!

 

[bblazer]

Oh, also, to anyone who wants to explore this topic in more depth than I have the time or willingness to to discuss here, I recommend you check out this excellent article from Stuart McGill:

On The Use of Weight Belts

That is a terrible piece.

His studies (actually most not his, but his interpretation of others) were primarily done on occupational belts and then those theories were transferred to "Serious Lifting Athletes." He also makes the claim that a "...to obtain the maximal effect from a belt, the lifter must lift poorly and in a way that exposed the back to a much higher risk of injury!" Christ almighty, one of the tests had the users (only 4 testers BTW) wearing a belt to not only DL but ride bikes and do one arm bench presses. Well they got the use of a belt right with at least one exercise! I've never tried one on a bike, but maybe they are on to something....

I'm still waiting for you to explain how using a belt as I described in an earlier post will keep me from developing my core. The whole logic of your argument is flawed since I can think few other athletes that need the core strength and stability that a PLer does, and yet you claim the use of a belt robs them of this.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

That is a terrible piece.

His studies (actually most not his, but his interpretation of others) were primarily done on occupational belts and then those theories were transferred to "Serious Lifting Athletes." He also makes the claim that a "...to obtain the maximal effect from a belt, the lifter must lift poorly and in a way that exposed the back to a much higher risk of injury!" Christ almighty, one of the tests had the users (only 4 testers BTW) wearing a belt to not only DL but ride bikes and do one arm bench presses. Well they got the use of a belt right with at least one exercise! I've never tried one on a bike, but maybe they are on to something....

I'm still waiting for you to explain how using a belt as I described in an earlier post will keep me from developing my core. The whole logic of your argument is flawed since I can think few other athletes that need the core strength and stability that a PLer does, and yet you claim the use of a belt robs them of this.

B-

Just a guess but what I think he means is if on every heavy lift where your core would be needed to keep you stable you use a belt which provides artificial strength so that your core doesnt need to work as much then your core isn't doing the amount of work that is required, your stability is coming from an artificial source and so your core is not as active, obviously if your core isnt worked then it will remain weak and as you increase the pounds of your lifts your core will fall further and further behind meaning when you finally stop using the belt your core will be too weak for the load which results in a high risk of injury. Somthing along those lines I think.

 

[Big_BK]

A belt is a tool end of story. We weren't born wearing belts to help us with lifting. Don't rely on your belt for everything but at the same time don't not use one completely. Alot of people tend to go overboard when defending their side of the argument online to the point where they will exclude something 100% when its not necessary.

 

[captainahole]

I use a belt regularly. I swear by them. Ever since my hernia it has given me the security to not to worry about another. Doesn't matter how strong you core is. If you are going to get a hernia you will get one. Why stack the odds in the area. You may never have a back injury but there is always a chance. A belt helps to minimize the risk that's what I like about them.
I also like lifting straps, pully straps, knee wraps whatever helps to control to issues.

Injury chances
Maximizing my lifts

To each their own. It will be a continuous issue as long as there are people who think they know it all. Do what makes you feel more confortable and confident. There is no holy grail

Also a bad lift may put you out of training for months years or forever. The body was not really designed to take the pounding that weightlifting does to it. So if you wish to train for many years to come. Minimize risk.

 

[Jocques Straap]

A belt is a tool end of story. - exactly.

We weren't born wearing belts to help us with lifting.- funny thing, we are born with a weight belt. It's called the transverse abdominal and the internal oblique. These are the muscles used to resist the pushing force of the ex. obliques and the rectus abdominis and in some action of the erectors. All of these muscles mentioned, act to stabilize the spine, and transfer energy from the lower body to the upper body.

A weight belt, like others have mentioned, allows for a greater degree of stabilization, less energy lost, resulting in more weight on the bar. Basically, a weight belt, replaces the TVA and internal oblique. Using a weight belt results in much less activation of these muscles. However, there is actually more activation of the rectus abdominis, ex. oblique and erectors, when belted up.

There is definitely a time where they can be a great tool, in our tool box. Simply put, you will get a better leg workout, squatting with a belt, since you will be able to move more weight. Like SL, mentioned belting up on heavy sets, or max lifts is a good idea. I typically recommend belting up when the weight reached 90% of your 1RM.

Wearing a belt all the time is idiotic. Just like wearing any kind of brace all the time is idiotic. In order for your body to get stronger, you need to be stressing it. You will not be stressing your TVA, in. oblique by wearing a weight belt, like you would beltless. And there is a possibility of developing an imbalance, granted the odds of a problem arising from this imbalance is rare.

 

[Big_BK]

Good post, K for you.

 

[iggy]

you dont need a belt EM, a lot of people from the gym will tell you different stuff. arnold and franco never used a belt. and franco could deadlift 800lbs for reps and held the world record for deadlift back in his day. like others said, humans weren't meant to lift with belts.
FORM is EVERYTHING.

 

[lockdownd7]

That is a terrible piece.

His studies (actually most not his, but his interpretation of others) were primarily done on occupational belts and then those theories were transferred to "Serious Lifting Athletes." He also makes the claim that a "...to obtain the maximal effect from a belt, the lifter must lift poorly and in a way that exposed the back to a much higher risk of injury!" Christ almighty, one of the tests had the users (only 4 testers BTW) wearing a belt to not only DL but ride bikes and do one arm bench presses. Well they got the use of a belt right with at least one exercise! I've never tried one on a bike, but maybe they are on to something....

I'm still waiting for you to explain how using a belt as I described in an earlier post will keep me from developing my core. The whole logic of your argument is flawed since I can think few other athletes that need the core strength and stability that a PLer does, and yet you claim the use of a belt robs them of this.

B-

Terrible because you don't like what he says, correct? And you teach spinal biomechanics where? But, yea, continue to throw around weightless attacks, especially at people who have far more expertise in an area than you. Let's stay classy, friend.

Just a guess but what I think he means is if on every heavy lift where your core would be needed to keep you stable you use a belt which provides artificial strength so that your core doesnt need to work as much then your core isn't doing the amount of work that is required, your stability is coming from an artificial source and so your core is not as active, obviously if your core isnt worked then it will remain weak and as you increase the pounds of your lifts your core will fall further and further behind meaning when you finally stop using the belt your core will be too weak for the load which results in a high risk of injury. Somthing along those lines I think.

Bingo. It's so simple a 14 year old can get it!

 

[PWR]

Fundamental to whom? Powerlifters? I'm sorry that everyone is not a PL......

Tell me the danger in not wearing a belt. Seriously. Tell me how a natural, fundamental human movement such as squatting or standing up is inherently dangerous and requires support. Tell me how a belt saves you if your form is terrible.

In fact, I'd argue that a belt is more dangerous. By artificially strengthening the core, a lifter can use more weight than his body could safely handle on its own.

Probably the only situation where a belt would truly be advisable would be if your core is your weak link that's limiting how effectively you can train your legs (similar to how grip is often a limiting factor on DLs). Even in that situation, you'd want to just use it on a temporary basis while you strengthen your core.

I think your a complete tool bag!! All you do is run around here arguing with people, giving all this advice and talking like you are completely better than anyone here and you are complete know it all. Yet you never mention your routines. I swear you must be the biggest baddest SOB here.


I wear a belt on all squats and deadlifts at 3 plates and up. Carry on.

 

[lockdownd7]

I think your a complete tool bag!! All you do is run around here arguing with people, giving all this advice and talking like you are completely better than anyone here and you are complete know it all. Yet you never mention your routines. I swear you must be the biggest baddest SOB here.


I wear a belt on all squats and deadlifts at 3 plates and up. Carry on.

Let's stay classy, friend.

^^ Let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum. Support your opinions with legitimate evidence, not ad hominem attacks.

 

[chazk]

The part about not doing one arm bent over rows ,alot of guys have a dendancey to twist the entire body instead of pulling with the back and arm then contracting the lats .
Alot of guys just kinda lift the dumbell alittle then twist the waiste and move the shoulder back to appear as if they are doing a full rep
Dumbells rows take alot of practice to do them correct

This guy does them really well YouTube - Devilish One arm 120 lbs dumbell rows
this guy does them with poor form you can see the differance the shouler going back and hip moving as of he is twisting his waist
YouTube - 150# Dumbell Rows

Here is a standing barbell row poor form the guys throws his body towards the bar to try and complete each rep very dangerous
YouTube - barbell rows

This guy does not use as much weigh but you can see he actuallu pulls his elbows back behind him and works his back
YouTube - Barbell rows 275x8
not his form does slip alittle towards the end but thats alot of weight is he rowing and he still manages to keep decent form a little trap in the end but still he is working his back not just throwing his body in a seizure like motion like the guy in the video post above him

My suggestion being 14 is to have a professional run down the excersizes and show you correct from and how to use the correct muscles to do the lifts to avoid injury . Dont get cuaght up in this whole " I wanna sling a buncha weight around " no one will be impressed and the lifters whe know correct form will al just luagh

guys lifting alot of weight correct have taken years to get to that point. at your age doing the excersizes correct you would be surprised you dont need alot of weight to see result , just correct stress applied to the muscles to stimulate rebuilding

as for the belt , no harm using one at your age if you think you need one, your only 14 you should not be lifting alot of weight to even require a belt in my opinion but I know being young kids often have bad form and a belt might keep you from getting hurt doing the slinging bicep curls that kids usually do as if they have to lift more then anyone in the gym , ofcoarse they often use evey muscle doing bicep curls except the biceps LOL

 

[chazk]

That does actually seem to make alot of sense. Iv always wondered how people can say shit like bad things about squats and deads when they are such a natural movement...

Although bro, I am actually kinda a powerlifter, I lift heavy, but stay within a reasonable rep range at my age - usually 5-8 rep range with a few things more like 10-15 reps eg cable crossovers, forearm, calf and ab work

Squats and deadlift are not natural movements. Weightlifting in general is not " natural "
and natural movement would be rolling a giant rock off a cliff to kill a animal then the natural movment of ripping it apart with your arms to eat it.
Or building shelter out of logs with good old fashion hard working labor

If you want to go that route , strong man lifting might be more of the way to go like stacking boulders ,walking with a log in your hand , climbing rock walls and so on
or all the movments that a preson would do out in nature for survival.
A book came out years ago it was based on what a caveman did and how to build a caveman style body.

Not to be taken to serious I was just trying to point out no where in nature are you gonna find a barbell and dumbell laying in the woods and a if you did a persons natural instinct would be to club another guy over the head with a dumbell then take his girlfriend by the hair and bang/rape her in a cave or drag her into the woods away from the other guys and do her.

For millions of years or hundreds of thousands if you argue evolution or even 7000 if you believe the bible no where in recorded history is someone doing squats and deadlifts untill the last 80 years even then the movements were used to build strenght for a sport or something else then " bodybuilding " not untill the late 40's did bodybuilding really get any reconition at all

 

[V-Machine]

Several issues here....

Since when did you naturally sit down or stand up with 600lb+ on your shoulders? When you are putting reasonably large weights up small mistakes will cost you months of rehab. That isn't much fun. As somebody else said, wear a belt for maximal sets - for me that means new 1 rep max.

Your second paragraph makes little sense. The belt is providing extra support so your body isn't lifting the weight unaided so why worry about your bodies limit WITHOUT a belt?

I agree with the last paragraph - but then my core or grip is never a weak link.

As several people have said, a belt is a tool. IF you over use it (e.g. when doing curls, benching (!) etc) then it will be detrimental. However, it makes good sense to use it for protection when you are at your limit.

Fundamental to whom? Powerlifters? I'm sorry that everyone is not a PL......

Tell me the danger in not wearing a belt. Seriously. Tell me how a natural, fundamental human movement such as squatting or standing up is inherently dangerous and requires support. Tell me how a belt saves you if your form is terrible.


In fact, I'd argue that a belt is more dangerous. By artificially strengthening the core, a lifter can use more weight than his body could safely handle on its own.

Probably the only situation where a belt would truly be advisable would be if your core is your weak link that's limiting how effectively you can train your legs (similar to how grip is often a limiting factor on DLs). Even in that situation, you'd want to just use it on a temporary basis while you strengthen your core.

 

[bblazer]

Terrible because you don't like what he says, correct? And you teach spinal biomechanics where? But, yea, continue to throw around weightless attacks, especially at people who have far more expertise in an area than you. Let's stay classy, friend.

Terrible for the reasons I outlined, go back and reread it.

I am not throwing any weightless attacks. I have done specifically two things:

1) Asked you to prove the things you have said (still waiting).

2) Shown flaws in the article you posted.

I'm not sure how either of those require you to tell me to keep it classy.

B-

 

[ExtraMile]

OMG so some people are tellin me to wear one some people are tellin me form is everythin. What the fuck do I do?!

 

[bblazer]

Welcome to the world of researching and forming your own opinion.

B-

 

[V-Machine]

You are young and your bones are still developing. Play safe and wear one with the heavy weights.

Also, saw your squat video. You aren't hitting depth with your hips - instead you rounded your back (when you have a back injury!). That allowed you to touch the safety bars. You need to lighten the weight and go to work on your form. Get to U-tube and check out Ed Coan, Capt'n Kirk etc. You don't lift that amount of weight without good form!

OMG so some people are tellin me to wear one some people are tellin me form is everythin. What the fuck do I do?!

 

[PWR]

OMG so some people are tellin me to wear one some people are tellin me form is everythin. What the fuck do I do?!

You can do both.

This is my opinion. I believe myself to have a very strong core. Lifting heavy has never really hurt my back, but I keep it on when I start to go heavy because if for some reason I were to get out of the groove or my form were to slip or something hopefully it may help save my back. Could I do the same weight without it? Maybe, maybe not but I dont care to find out just incase of injury. Make sure your form is spot on and you will eventually find out if a belt is for you or not. Good luck bud.

 

[ExtraMile]

You are young and your bones are still developing. Play safe and wear one with the heavy weights.

Also, saw your squat video. You aren't hitting depth with your hips - instead you rounded your back (when you have a back injury!). That allowed you to touch the safety bars. You need to lighten the weight and go to work on your form. Get to U-tube and check out Ed Coan, Capt'n Kirk etc. You don't lift that amount of weight without good form!

Thats exactly what I have done, yesterday I squatted 175 instead of 225, next week Im trying 185 because 175 was somewhat easy.

 

[Big_BK]

Well from my own personal experience, in strongman core is very important and training heavily. In strongman a belt is used as a tool to enable you to lift more weight when you get to the point where your core cannot support it. I used to get alot more out of my belt when i relied on it more but, now that i have been dropping the weight a little and not using a belt my beltless lifts are very close to what i can do with a belt now. For example my beltless squat PR a while back was 455 and my PR with a belt was a little over 500, so i got about 50lbs out of the belt.

 

[lockdownd7]

Several issues here....

Since when did you naturally sit down or stand up with 600lb+ on your shoulders? When you are putting reasonably large weights up small mistakes will cost you months of rehab. That isn't much fun. As somebody else said, wear a belt for maximal sets - for me that means new 1 rep max.

Your second paragraph makes little sense. The belt is providing extra support so your body isn't lifting the weight unaided so why worry about your bodies limit WITHOUT a belt?

I agree with the last paragraph - but then my core or grip is never a weak link.

As several people have said, a belt is a tool. IF you over use it (e.g. when doing curls, benching (!) etc) then it will be detrimental. However, it makes good sense to use it for protection when you are at your limit.

The point is that if your form is good, all you're doing is adding resistance to a normal human movement. If your form is flawed however, a belt won't save you. That's the main thing people need to understand.

Why should you worry about what your body can do without a belt? Well, I suppose if the only times you need to demonstrate strength are in a pristine weight room environment, where you have the luxury of a belt, you don't. But for athletes, any weak links in the kinetic chain will result in inefficient movement and an inability to display all the strength they may be capable of.

Terrible for the reasons I outlined, go back and reread it.

I am not throwing any weightless attacks. I have done specifically two things:

1) Asked you to prove the things you have said (still waiting).

2) Shown flaws in the article you posted.

I'm not sure how either of those require you to tell me to keep it classy.

B-

The "flaws" you pointed out were addressed by the author (he explicitly mentions the lack of direct research done in this area). If you'd like, I welcome you to step up and conduct some studies of your own, since you're apparently such an expert in this field. It is important to have a reasonable amount of skepticism and have a critical mind, but it's also important to understand your limitations and realize that sometimes it's best to trust those who know more than you. Nobody can be an expert on everything.

As for #1....I'm not even sure what you're even asking for. If you won't listen to someone like Dr. McGill, what am I supposed to tell you that will change your mind? You didn't even offer a counterargument, you just tried (and failed) to refute the credibility of the source.

 

[Big_BK]

Keep it civil guys i don't wanna see any bullshit over this. Friendly arguments only.

 

[ExtraMile]

Keep it civil guys i don't wanna see any bullshit over this. Friendly arguments only.

Me neither I just want a goddamn straight answer lol

 

[Big_BK]

Use it as needed, don't use it all the time and don't not use one at all. Unfortunately there is no clear cut answer for this bro.

 

[bblazer]

The "flaws" you pointed out were addressed by the author (he explicitly mentions the lack of direct research done in this area). If you'd like, I welcome you to step up and conduct some studies of your own, since you're apparently such an expert in this field. It is important to have a reasonable amount of skepticism and have a critical mind, but it's also important to understand your limitations and realize that sometimes it's best to trust those who know more than you. Nobody can be an expert on everything.

As for #1....I'm not even sure what you're even asking for. If you won't listen to someone like Dr. McGill, what am I supposed to tell you that will change your mind? You didn't even offer a counterargument, you just tried (and failed) to refute the credibility of the source.

You say I failed. Not sure how since even the author of this regurgitation piece sees the same flaws in it I do.

And I did refute your argument. Let me repeat it for you....

The whole logic of your argument is flawed since I can think few other athletes that need the core strength and stability that a PLer does, and yet you claim the use of a belt robs them of this.

It almost as if you are saying someone like Ed Coan can't have a strong core because he wears a belt.

B-

 

[dabuffguy]

Use the belt when you feel you need it. If you feel you never need it, then don't wear one. However, lifting heavy weights is a good time to use it. Better safe than sorry when using low rep and heavy weight.

I can't believe this became a 3 page thread. ugh.

 

[ExtraMile]

Use the belt when you feel you need it. If you feel you never need it, then don't wear one. However, lifting heavy weights is a good time to use it. Better safe than sorry when using low rep and heavy weight.

I can't believe this became a 3 page thread. ugh.

Ok so go by feel and instinct, and if I were to jump the weight up like I did when I went from 200 to 225 then use a belt then cuz Im not sure how hard it will be?

 

[dabuffguy]

Ok so go by feel and instinct, and if I were to jump the weight up like I did when I went from 200 to 225 then use a belt then cuz Im not sure how hard it will be?

Yes. If you know it's gonna be exceptionally heavy on your back, then wear a belt. The last thing you want to do is get f-ked in the back because you didn't wear a belt. It happens.

 

[lockdownd7]

You say I failed. Not sure how since even the author of this regurgitation piece sees the same flaws in it I do.

The supposed "flaw" is a lack of specific research in this area. Again, instead of pissing and moaning, why don't you conduct your own study if you're so convinced of your position? Because you don't have any legitimate counterexplanations to the conclusions drawn by Dr. McGill. If you could even offer one refutation to the science, we could have an actual debate. But you don't. Instead, in an effort to obfuscate others into thinking you have an intelligent position, you have diverted the discussion to this nonsense.

And I did refute your argument. Let me repeat it for you....

The whole logic of your argument is flawed since I can think few other athletes that need the core strength and stability that a PLer does, and yet you claim the use of a belt robs them of this.

It almost as if you are saying someone like Ed Coan can't have a strong core because he wears a belt.

B-

Lol, what?! Have you even been reading the posts in this thread? In the future I recommend you understand the argument being made before you boldly proclaim you "refuted" it.

To simplify this process, ask yourself the following question. You don't have to post the answer here, just think it:

If wearing a belt truly protects the back and keeps us safe, then shouldn't we wear one on every set? What if "something went wrong" with 225? That would still have the potential to greatly harm your back. And considering, according to you, it doesn't have adverse affects on core strength, why not wear it on every set, always?

 

[bblazer]

OK you win.

B-

 

[lockdownd7]

OK you win.

B-

Ah, c'mon. This was just starting to get fun!

 

[Big_BK]

Ok so go by feel and instinct, and if I were to jump the weight up like I did when I went from 200 to 225 then use a belt then cuz Im not sure how hard it will be?

Exactly EM, go by feel. You will know your limits and obviously if you are trying a new weight that you have never done before you should probably put your belt on unless you are specifically seeing what you can do without a belt. Personally for me, beltless and belt training are two different scales for me and i know my limits on both.

 

[PWR]

You only have one back to last you the rest of your life. There are plenty of ways to get a strong core. Dont think you cant because you put the belt on for your last few heavy sets. Do what feels comfortable to you. I only wear a belt when I deadlift heavy and squat heavy.

 

[ExtraMile]

Exactly EM, go by feel. You will know your limits and obviously if you are trying a new weight that you have never done before you should probably put your belt on unless you are specifically seeing what you can do without a belt. Personally for me, beltless and belt training are two different scales for me and i know my limits on both.

Yeah, obviously knowing my limits will take a while seen as Im still pretty much a n00b. But most weeks I increase my squat by 5-10lbs so thats normal, anymore than that and on the first set Ill wear my belt and see how it feels.

You only have one back to last you the rest of your life. There are plenty of ways to get a strong core. Dont think you cant because you put the belt on for your last few heavy sets. Do what feels comfortable to you. I only wear a belt when I deadlift heavy and squat heavy.

Yep, Im gonna make time for my ab routine again, injuring my back badly will suck some serious dick at my age.

 

[dabuffguy]

Yeah, obviously knowing my limits will take a while seen as Im still pretty much a n00b. But most weeks I increase my squat by 5-10lbs so thats normal, anymore than that and on the first set Ill wear my belt and see how it feels.






Yep, Im gonna make time for my ab routine again, injuring my back badly will suck some serious dick at my age.

I messed mine over at 17. It makes life more difficult and painful. You never want a hurt back, trust me it sucks ballz.

 

[trauck1506]

I don't see how you could actually conduct a very good study on for wearing or for not wearing a belt? How could anyone be so one sided when there isn't enough information to make an actual assessment? I also don't see how wearing one will actually stop you from making your core stronger because if that were the case wearing a belt would put a hell of a lot more weight on your max. The only way I could see it hurting you is by trying to complete the same amount of weight without 1 and by not being used to it you have bad form, but this shouldn't happen unless your not to smart. I don't wear one because I personally think it strengths my back slightly more without it, but wouldn't suggest it. All I can say is just make an educated guess and probably wear one when doing a 1 - 5 rep max, but this doesn't mean that your form can slip up.

 

[02gixxersix]

I use a belt when I go to failure in either a very low (5 reps or less) or very high (20 reps or more) squat set, and usually when I get over 315 on DLs. Tight as hell with DLs and just enough for something to push against on squats. I have a very strong core in relation to my overall strength I would think. I use knee wraps on max effort or very high rep sets but I'm sure that would open up a can of worms too. Preventative maintenance if you ask me and I don't wrap very tightly. Since i started using them my knee pain has gone away completely and weight has been continuously going up so I see no harm in them.

 

[FunFun]

Going on 50 this year. I stopped using a belt about 10 years ago and my back has never been stronger. Used a belt from my teens into my 40's and always had a weak/sore back. The only difference to my training is that I don't use a belt now.

Having said that, I must also say that I never go under 5 reps and even limit my 5 reps sets. I'd feel nervous going unbelted if I was going for big singles/doubles/triples, but I'm not a powerlifter and don't care about the numbers.

So...basically I'm not refuting the benefits and safety of belting for very heavy weights.