What worked for you in getting the 'big 3' up?

[Tweakle]

there's a fine line when it comes to doing assistance work for the genetically typical, step over it and exceed your work capacity and all of a sudden those exercises you're doing to improve the big lifts start sucking the life out of your workouts. That said, I found there are/were some things that helped get my relatively weak lifts up.

Bench - The decline bench has always been my number one weapon in getting the flat up. Flat benching consistantly hurts my shoulders, and I tend to lose the groove very quickly after a few reps. The decline helps overload the last 3/4ths of the movement with a heavier weight than you can flat bench, so the transfer potential is there.. and the angle of push has always felt safer for my shoulders than the flat.

Pause benches done for triples. Nothing builds explosion off the chest like these bad boys.. they can be a real ego killer when done for reps as fatigue sets in real fast.

swiss ball dumbbell benches done for high reps. I saw this one posted on elitefts a while back and found it works wonders for shoulder stablity

things that didn't work - dips (no transfer at all), inclines (I do these to give my pressing muscles a 'light day' but if I were to rely on them my bench would drop like a stone), any kind of machine work at all.

Deads

Pullthroughs and box squats both helped add 50lbs to my conventional pull in a relatively short time. The box squats really help with breaking the bar with your legs

things that didn't work - GHR's, GM's, other deadlift variations

Squats

Squats are an odd bird, no matter how strong I get in other lifts the only thing that will improve my squat is squatting. Deads I feel actually drain my CSN to the point that I can't squat and deadlift productively in the same training cycle.. rack pulls and box squats are a nice combination to cover all the bases when specialising on squats.

when I squatted 635, belt free off a 14" box (not world class even in my wettest dreams but not bad for a skinny white boy who was hardly able to walk 5 years earlier) I was coming in and doing 2-3 sets of squatting once a week. 2 heavy sets then sometimes a set of pause squats without the box. When I added assistance work, i lost strength in my legs very quickly.

 

[BiggT]

Good post, Tweakle. I'm not big on overdoing assistance work either, and I usually only include it if I need to. I am the same way with deads, actually, lol, when I train the deadlift, thats all I can push as it drains me to the point where everything else goes down the crapper.

I also notice that with the incline bench, it's a great lift I think to do for lots of reasons, but it doesn't carry over to the flat bench, but I always found flats carry over good to inclines.

 

[BiggT]

For me, consistently training my squats and pressing gets them up, I do very little assistance or accessory work, unless I have a weakness that can't be attributed to 'just train the lift more'. If my triceps are strong and conditioned, my pressing is usually good, I press with a fairly close grip on everything and have always been strong overhead, so with triceps accessory anything high-rep conditions them. Dips help me because of the tris, also close-grip pressing of all sorts, I also liked Tate Presses.

What I find helps my DL is not training it for a while, but pulling heavy and frequently from the floor in the form of the olympic lifts, and really upping my olympic and front squats (I pull conventional).....then doing a period of lower volume and less squatting, but pushing the DL hard.

Things that never did jack for me: partials, lockouts, anything on a machine, excess iso work for no specific reason, back hypers, rotating too many lifts too often and not training any of them regularly enough to get good at it.

 

[boss_]

Bench - Floor Press
Squat - Box Squats/GHR
DL - Rack Pulls

 

[Illuminati]

i'll admit, when it comes to training, i do some weird stuff. we all make gains differently. but here are some of the things that have helped me out.


All Three of the lifts:
Accomodating Resistance. I can't say enough about how this has helped me out. Generally, we are tend to fail somewhere in the middle to the end of our lifts. The use of bands has helped me out tremendously with all of my lifts. I have done more work with the bands on my bench and my squat. Not so much with my deadlift, b/c i didn't have a way to hook them up for the deadlift, until I recently found a jumpstretch platform at this one gym that I am going to.
Doing work in the single and triple range. Very rarely do I ever go over 3 reps on the big 3 lifts.

Bench:
The biggest thing that I have done here is the usage of bands. see my note above.
Incline bench work, and heavy tricep work.

Squat:
Box squatting, and learning to use a wide stance. the wider stance gives me a stronger base, which has in turn helped me to put up some big numbers.

Deadlift:
infrequently training the deadlift, and then going kamakazi over it! (and box squats) let me explain. on my max out days i alternate my squat and deadlift. generally i'll do some heavy box squats for a few weeks, and then decided that i want to deadlift. and then when I deadlift, i'll kind of make up my mind after i have maxed on box squats (a tuesday) and come friday (which should be my light day) I max on deads, then come the following tuesday I'll max on deads again (so in a one week period, i'll have a max on box squats, and two maxes on deads) i'll take the following friday and do speed deads, and then max on deads come the following tuesday. kind of messed up, but for some reason, i have found that this has worked for me.
lately, i have been doing some work with chains on my deads for my light (DE) days. I just drape 80lbs of chain over the bar put about 365 bar weight, and then pull singles w/30seconds between each pull. this is really helping me out with the top end of my lift.

on my max days, i do very little, if any assistance work. most of the time, I'll just do my max, and then leave the gym. i truly believe that less is more, in terms of assistance work. if you're tired, you're tired, and there is no point in doing more, b/c all you are going to do is end up hurting yourself. even on my DE days, i do my main exercise, and then maybe 2 or 3 assistance exercises. if for some reason i miss a day in the gym, i dont try to make it up, i just skip it. if i have to re-arrainge my days due to a need for spotters, i just skip the day that (lift) that i was supposed to be doing. i mention all of this stuff, b/c it has all helped me.

 

[Protobuilder]

Great thread. I'm not really at a level to add much. But it's a valuable thread. LoL

FWIW, I recently found out that low incline BB bench does crap for my flat BB bench.

 

[BadboyAl]

Best Bench Routine for naturals:

** The best natural lifter in the world uses this routine, Paul Bossi @ 215lb bw benched 550lb raw and natural.

http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/bossimethod1.htm

 

[fortunatesun]

Bench: easily my worst-Volume. I've never found a set/rep or exercise combination that seemed to work for me better than others but nowadays I make sure the total amount moved is improving. Also varying grips- both close and wide. Recently started using bands so they're still too new to give an opinion but I'm hopeful. Once I realized halfway through my first workout that I was overusing my triceps I've been reworking my bench form for the better. HaHa. But they may work out well in the usage for which they are intended.

Deadlift- Speed DL, as long as there's enough weight on the bar. I think this works around the CNS taxation issue but still allows you to get enough lifts in. I've also found snatch grip off a platform helpful. I'm disproportionately weak at pulling this way, probably due to past training deficiencies, but it helps me get the bar off the floor.

Squat- Box squats as well. Also conditioning: plyometrics and Litvinov workout (running 400 meters immediately after you finish your set) have improved my basic motor response and really made me understand what goes on in my entire body when I squat, that calling it a 'lower body' exercise really misstates the case.

I also like the cycling of lifts approach, although maybe in my case it's because I'm old. Nevertheless, it's advantageous not only because I can remember just so many things at once, but I can try out new ideas on the 'off' parts. Periodization and a fresh approach help keep me motivated.

 

[skullcrushin22]

there's a fine line when it comes to doing assistance work for the genetically typical, step over it and exceed your work capacity and all of a sudden those exercises you're doing to improve the big lifts start sucking the life out of your workouts. That said, I found there are/were some things that helped get my relatively weak lifts up.

Bench - The decline bench has always been my number one weapon in getting the flat up. Flat benching consistantly hurts my shoulders, and I tend to lose the groove very quickly after a few reps. The decline helps overload the last 3/4ths of the movement with a heavier weight than you can flat bench, so the transfer potential is there.. and the angle of push has always felt safer for my shoulders than the flat.

Pause benches done for triples. Nothing builds explosion off the chest like these bad boys.. they can be a real ego killer when done for reps as fatigue sets in real fast.

swiss ball dumbbell benches done for high reps. I saw this one posted on elitefts a while back and found it works wonders for shoulder stablity

things that didn't work - dips (no transfer at all), inclines (I do these to give my pressing muscles a 'light day' but if I were to rely on them my bench would drop like a stone), any kind of machine work at all.

Deads

Pullthroughs and box squats both helped add 50lbs to my conventional pull in a relatively short time. The box squats really help with breaking the bar with your legs

things that didn't work - GHR's, GM's, other deadlift variations

Squats

Squats are an odd bird, no matter how strong I get in other lifts the only thing that will improve my squat is squatting. Deads I feel actually drain my CSN to the point that I can't squat and deadlift productively in the same training cycle.. rack pulls and box squats are a nice combination to cover all the bases when specialising on squats.

when I squatted 635, belt free off a 14" box (not world class even in my wettest dreams but not bad for a skinny white boy who was hardly able to walk 5 years earlier) I was coming in and doing 2-3 sets of squatting once a week. 2 heavy sets then sometimes a set of pause squats without the box. When I added assistance work, i lost strength in my legs very quickly.

What exactly is pause benches, and what sets and reps do you do. This sounds like something that I would like to do. I think it will help.

Thanks

 

[perp69]

i'll admit, when it comes to training, i do some weird stuff. we all make gains differently. but here are some of the things that have helped me out.


All Three of the lifts:
Accomodating Resistance. I can't say enough about how this has helped me out. Generally, we are tend to fail somewhere in the middle to the end of our lifts. The use of bands has helped me out tremendously with all of my lifts. I have done more work with the bands on my bench and my squat. Not so much with my deadlift, b/c i didn't have a way to hook them up for the deadlift, until I recently found a jumpstretch platform at this one gym that I am going to.
Doing work in the single and triple range. Very rarely do I ever go over 3 reps on the big 3 lifts.

Bench:
The biggest thing that I have done here is the usage of bands. see my note above.
Incline bench work, and heavy tricep work.

Squat:
Box squatting, and learning to use a wide stance. the wider stance gives me a stronger base, which has in turn helped me to put up some big numbers.

Deadlift:
infrequently training the deadlift, and then going kamakazi over it! (and box squats) let me explain. on my max out days i alternate my squat and deadlift. generally i'll do some heavy box squats for a few weeks, and then decided that i want to deadlift. and then when I deadlift, i'll kind of make up my mind after i have maxed on box squats (a tuesday) and come friday (which should be my light day) I max on deads, then come the following tuesday I'll max on deads again (so in a one week period, i'll have a max on box squats, and two maxes on deads) i'll take the following friday and do speed deads, and then max on deads come the following tuesday. kind of messed up, but for some reason, i have found that this has worked for me.
lately, i have been doing some work with chains on my deads for my light (DE) days. I just drape 80lbs of chain over the bar put about 365 bar weight, and then pull singles w/30seconds between each pull. this is really helping me out with the top end of my lift.

on my max days, i do very little, if any assistance work. most of the time, I'll just do my max, and then leave the gym. i truly believe that less is more, in terms of assistance work. if you're tired, you're tired, and there is no point in doing more, b/c all you are going to do is end up hurting yourself. even on my DE days, i do my main exercise, and then maybe 2 or 3 assistance exercises. if for some reason i miss a day in the gym, i dont try to make it up, i just skip it. if i have to re-arrainge my days due to a need for spotters, i just skip the day that (lift) that i was supposed to be doing. i mention all of this stuff, b/c it has all helped me.

I have to agree about the bands. I am amazed at how they are helping my lifts in just the short amount time I have been using them especially on my squats. I have been picking one lift to use them on when I go through the 5x5 and they are working great for my numbers. As far as assistance work I will do some abs, calves, tris or biceps if I have time and the extra energy. Like you said some days I just don't have it in the tank so I skip em. I don't sweat it much about missing a day every now and then either because it never hurts me and in fact I feel stronger most times on my next workout. I truely feel that everyone should workout according to how their body dictates. If you are tired, hurting, etc. you need to take the time your body needs to recover or risk hurting yourself IMO.

Perp

 

[Assertive Guy]

I have to agree about the bands. I am amazed at how they are helping my lifts in just the short amount time I have been using them especially on my squats. I have been picking one lift to use them on when I go through the 5x5 and they are working great for my numbers. As far as assistance work I will do some abs, calves, tris or biceps if I have time and the extra energy. Like you said some days I just don't have it in the tank so I skip em. I don't sweat it much about missing a day every now and then either because it never hurts me and in fact I feel stronger most times on my next workout. I truely feel that everyone should workout according to how their body dictates. If you are tired, hurting, etc. you need to take the time your body needs to recover or risk hurting yourself IMO.

Perp

I do kinda agree with that last statement more than most would, but would you take a month off if that is how long it takes to recover fully after dips? That's the situation I'm in. I do only 4 sets once every 2 weeks and it takes a hella long time to recover! I do only negatives atm...

 

[TheOak84]

i was always a fan of speed work. and just planning out my workouts accordingly.

i like speed bench and dips for the bench press

as well as box squats and speed deads

 

[Khryz]

Gread idea for a thread! Currently I'm attempting pretty much all of the training methods mentioned here to help get my Big 3 up. It seems that box squats are a high favorite here.

 

[Tweakle]

very interesting responses, it's funny how everyone attacks the same problem in different ways. I'd love to use chains, bands I've been told can burn out raw lifters very quickly?

pause benches are just what they sound like - you lower the bar to your chest, keep your air , stay tight and pause for a second. Then try to blast it up as hard and fast as you can.. great if your problem is building up speed off the bottom

 

[Protobuilder]

Anyone tried pause squats w/ any success?

 

[fortunatesun]

I'd love to use chains, bands I've been told can burn out raw lifters very quickly?

It's because most cycles are designed by people that will be doing equipped lifts. There are adjustments you can make, I've seen something- maybe at elitefts?- but I'm not sure just where to look to find it right now. I think you're basically right, though, if I remember correctly. Raw lifters will benefit from less work than others: once a week is plenty, the cycles can be shorter, and something about percentages- I don't know- I wasn't using bands at the time and didn't assimilate. If I find it I'll shoot it your way.

 

[perp69]

I do kinda agree with that last statement more than most would, but would you take a month off if that is how long it takes to recover fully after dips? That's the situation I'm in. I do only 4 sets once every 2 weeks and it takes a hella long time to recover! I do only negatives atm...

What do you mean by recovery? Just fatiqued or shoulder or arm pain? Yes, if I thought I needed a month off I would take it and keep my diet on par or try to work around it if I can. Yeah, you may loose some strength briefly in that case but it comes back quickly. If you need that much time off you may already have an injury that you need to get checked out.

Another possibility may be changing technique a little-like a different grip width or trying to do exercises to strengthen the weak part that is giving you trouble. One example I can give is when I do dips my first rep will be a partial to kind of warm up and then the rest are full range of motion. We have the dip station with the handles that can flip out wide or narrow. The wide grip is more comfortable for me for some reason. Maybe stop the negatives for a bit and see what that does.

Longest I have had to take off was 1-2 weeks to let bad tendonitis heal. I do a lot of compound movements, which I think tends to keep my whole body strong as a unit. It is really more about knowing your body's limits and how to handle fatigue I think. I am learning more about what my body can take all the time.

Perp

 

[mm107]

Hey guys, what really helped me get my big 3 lifts up(even tho im a 'beginner') was the 5x5 plan. Core Lifts. But ill go in into detail about some accesory work i did

Bench:
The bands Really helped the explosiveness.
Suspended Pushups

Sqaut:
Full Range of Motion. Ass to Grass.
Bands helped somewhat on this, with the explosviness, not as much as the bench tho
Kicking a 45lb plate around(hip muscles, groin muscles, etc)
Lunges
Hamstring curls

Deadlift:
Deadlifting while standing on Mats, to imrpove the bottom part of my lift
Pullthroughs
Lockouts from the pins.


Now for DIPS, i dont know if they directly affected my bench too much, but they did help my chest improve, as well as my triceps. The dip bar is the angled dip bar so its more of a chest workout.

Also, i recently started doing Chin-ups. If you check my progress pics i can really say i think the chinups have been working. I do them after deadlifting every Weds, as my accesory work.

Most of the other work i mentioned, i dont usually do, but when i stall, i throw them in my arsenal.

Maxes as of July 21, 2006
Bench: 230x5
Sqaut: 270x5
Deadlift: 425x5

Thats a total poundage of 925lbs. Im weighing in right now at 190lbs. @ 9%BF. (calipers at 10mm)



Good Post tweakle.

 

[Sassy69]

Informative thread tweakle! I'm still learning the basic stuff to the point that I am focusing on these big 3 and noting my weaknesses - Still working to get past 30 lb on each side & keeping form. Working on explosiveness and little bawbles in stablity. But good stuff to keep in mind going forward.

 

[Illuminati]

very interesting responses, it's funny how everyone attacks the same problem in different ways. I'd love to use chains, bands I've been told can burn out raw lifters very quickly?

pause benches are just what they sound like - you lower the bar to your chest, keep your air , stay tight and pause for a second. Then try to blast it up as hard and fast as you can.. great if your problem is building up speed off the bottom

you would be fine. just cycle them into and out of your workouts. say 3 weeks with either the bands or chains, and then 3 weeks without.

 

[Island Son]

bench - pushups for speed helped a little, and better form especially the back arch and pressing lower on my chest (farther away from my shoulders)
dl.... cardio maybe? I get tired too fast
squat.. flexibility especially in my hip flexors

 

[Jim Ouini]

Great thread, real helpful.

BTW, some guy at the gym engaged me in conversation and told me he only does the 'Big 5' I was thinking 'There's 5?'.

Anyway, he rattles off squat (OK), Bench (still with ya), seated cable rows (huh?), bicep curls (hmmm), and skullcrushers (yep, that's 5 alright).

 

[fortunatesun]

I came across a good clip of a pause bench:

http://www.irongame.com/videos/LongestPauseInPLHistory.2003,June8th,APFSeniors.mpg

 

[silver_shadow]

for me:
bench: most definitely, all manner of heavy overhead presses for 1-3 reps/set
DL: good mornings, switching to sumo style, speed squats
squat: good mornings and speed work

 

[bicepsforyou]

Great thread. I'm not really at a level to add much. But it's a valuable thread. LoL

FWIW, I recently found out that low incline BB bench does crap for my flat BB bench.

how would you know if it works

 

[Protobuilder]

how would you know if it works

Well, after giving low inclines a good 8 week run (long enough to get past acclimation and make some gains), I switched back to flat bench . . . and after a few sessions to get acclimated to the lift, my flat bench was worse off than before. Even after pushing it for a good 6 weeks, it still didn't get back to previous levels. And that was with a caloric surplus and no other changes to my program (e.g., no excessive cardio or OHP, etc.). Conclusion: low incline did crap to improve my flat bench. Up next, see how close-grip bench does . . .

 

[Madcow2]

Well, after giving low inclines a good 8 week run (long enough to get past acclimation and make some gains), I switched back to flat bench . . . and after a few sessions to get acclimated to the lift, my flat bench was worse off than before. Even after pushing it for a good 6 weeks, it still didn't get back to previous levels. And that was with a caloric surplus and no other changes to my program (e.g., no excessive cardio or OHP, etc.). Conclusion: low incline did crap to improve my flat bench. Up next, see how close-grip bench does . . .

Something to think about, sometimes a maintenance program on a core lift while focusing on assistance work can be a better angle. The element of flat bench that is tough to get around is load. If you spend some time maintaining that lift while pushing hard on others you might experience better results. Sort of like front squatting to improve the back squat, may not be the best idea to chuck back squatting completely for a training cycle as this is the gorilla of squatting load.

 

[mekannik]

Bench - learning to get tight across the shoulder girdle (pinching shoulder blades together), lockouts. My sticking/hitching point is 6"-7" off the chest - so lockouts were my focal point.

Deads - explosive lifts/jumps. Helped with building momentum off the floor.

Squat - still working on it. Core work (isometric holds)/stretches seem to be helping.

 

[kingkrs]

I do not have access to chains and bands. However what I am doing to keep the progress rolling is alternate my lifts. Let me explain. I am right now not doing any flat bench, I am doing overhead pressing in place of the bench and it is doing me wonders. This has allowed me to actually improve my bench. What I do is roatate the bench out for six weeks and put in the overhead work.

As far as squats and deadlifts go, I do the same. Right around the time that my squatting has hit the wall, I will stop squatting and start deadlifting. I find that if I train only one side of the body (backside) apart from the front I get better balance and progress.

So for example right now my leg day consists of Deadlifts, snatch grip deadlifts on a podium, lunges and or goodmornings.

When I come back to squatting I will do: Squats, split squats, hack squats, or something of the like.

I will do the same type of thing with the bench and shoulder routine I mentioned above.