What will happen after Israel bombs Iran?

[75th]

Its obvious that Iran isnt going to back down with regards to it's pursuit of nuclear technology. And its even more obvious that Israel will bomb the shit out of whatever buildings hold said technology in the near future.

So, start of WWIII? Iran has Russia, China, etc on its side. Israel, due to the Jewish lobby, has us, UK, etc on theirs.

The Sunday Times - World

The Sunday Times December 11, 2005

Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran
Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, and Sarah Baxter, Washington

ISRAEL’S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed.

The order came after Israeli intelligence warned the government that Iran was operating enrichment facilities, believed to be small and concealed in civilian locations.

Iran’s stand-off with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) over nuclear inspections and aggressive rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, who said last week that Israel should be moved to Europe, are causing mounting concern.

The crisis is set to come to a head in early March, when Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the IAEA, will present his next report on Iran. El-Baradei, who received the Nobel peace prize yesterday, warned that the world was “losing patience” with Iran.

A senior White House source said the threat of a nuclear Iran was moving to the top of the international agenda and the issue now was: “What next?” That question would have to be answered in the next few months, he said.

Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the “point of no return” after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years.

“Israel — and not only Israel — cannot accept a nuclear Iran,” Sharon warned recently. “We have the ability to deal with this and we’re making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation.”

The order to prepare for a possible attack went through the Israeli defence ministry to the chief of staff. Sources inside special forces command confirmed that “G” readiness — the highest stage — for an operation was announced last week.

Gholamreza Aghazadeah, head of the Atomic Organisation of Iran, warned yesterday that his country would produce nuclear fuel. “There is no doubt that we have to carry out uranium enrichment,” he said.

He promised it would not be done during forthcoming talks with European negotiators. But although Iran insists it wants only nuclear energy, Israeli intelligence has concluded it is deceiving the world and has no intention of giving up what it believes is its right to develop nuclear weapons.

A “massive” Israeli intelligence operation has been underway since Iran was designated the “top priority for 2005”, according to security sources.

Cross-border operations and signal intelligence from a base established by the Israelis in northern Iraq are said to have identified a number of Iranian uranium enrichment sites unknown to the the IAEA.

Since Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, “it has been understood that the lesson is, don’t have one site, have 50 sites”, a White House source said.

If a military operation is approved, Israel will use air and ground forces against several nuclear targets in the hope of stalling Tehran’s nuclear programme for years, according to Israeli military sources.

It is believed Israel would call on its top special forces brigade, Unit 262 — the equivalent of the SAS — and the F-15I strategic 69 Squadron, which can strike Iran and return to Israel without refuelling.

“If we opt for the military strike,” said a source, “it must be not less than 100% successful. It will resemble the destruction of the Egyptian air force in three hours in June 1967.”

Aharon Zeevi Farkash, the Israeli military intelligence chief, stepped up the pressure on Iran this month when he warned Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, that “if by the end of March the international community is unable to refer the Iranian issue to the United Nations security council, then we can say the international effort has run its course”.

The March deadline set for military readiness also stems from fears that Iran is improving its own intelligence-gathering capability. In October it launched its first satellite, the Sinah-1, which was carried by a Russian space launcher.

“The Iranians’ space programme is a matter of deep concern to us,” said an Israeli defence source. “If and when we launch an attack on several Iranian targets, the last thing we need is Iranian early warning received by satellite.”

Russia last week signed an estimated $1 billion contract — its largest since 2000 — to sell Iran advanced Tor-M1 systems capable of destroying guided missiles and laser-guided bombs from aircraft.

“Once the Iranians get the Tor-M1, it will make our life much more difficult,” said an Israeli air force source. “The installation of this system can be relatively quick and we can’t waste time on this one.”

The date set for possible Israeli strikes on Iran also coincides with Israel’s general election on March 28, prompting speculation that Sharon may be sabre-rattling for votes.

Benjamin Netanyahu, the frontrunner to lead Likud into the elections, said that if Sharon did not act against Iran, “then when I form the new Israeli government, we’ll do what we did in the past against Saddam’s reactor, which gave us 20 years of tranquillity”.

 

[EnderJE]

They'll finally reveal the Cadbury secret and all will be well in the world.

 

[75th]

They'll finally reveal the Cadbury secret and all will be well in the world.

Thats what my sources assume as well.

 

[HumorMe]

 

[75th]

LOL a photo that fits in every occasion.

 

[gotmilk]

There will be less rock-chuckers available for photo-ops

 

[BrothaBill]

Naw, Iran doesnt have China or Russia. They wont do a thing.

I have my man on the ground in Israel giving me updates on it. We've talked for well over eight months on the subject of Israel attacking Iran.

Now with this new leader and his statements calling for the destruction of Israel and pissing just about every one off with the nuclear goals at the same time. Its going to happen, no doubt in my mind. Remember the precedent of Israel bombing Iraq's nuclear projects before.

They have done it and will do it again. Those are some tough fucking Jews over there

 

[75th]

Naw, Iran doesnt have China or Russia. They wont do a thing.

I have my man on the ground in Israel giving me updates on it. We've talked for well over eight months on the subject of Israel attacking Iran.

Now with this new leader and his statements calling for the destruction of Israel and pissing just about every one off with the nuclear goals at the same time. Its going to happen, no doubt in my mind. Remember the precedent of Israel bombing Iraq's nuclear projects before.

They have done it and will do it again. Those are some tough fucking Jews over there

The Iranians are tough mother fuckers as well.

 

[Subzeero]

Air raid on Iran means world war 3?

I don't know who is the deluded fool here. Or maybe some people are in the habit of sensationalizing everything.

Isreal is going to target Iran, that story is as old and obvious as it gets.

 

[75th]

Air raid on Iran means world war 3?

I don't know who is the deluded fool here. Or maybe some people are in the habit of sensationalizing everything.

Isreal is going to target Iran, that story is as old and obvious as it gets.

Israel attacks Iran.

Iran, unlike 1980's Iraq, fights back.

You actually think that the fight would remain contained between those two countries?

Talk about deluded.

 

[thelion2005]

This guy is popular!

As for Iran ....
I think it stands all by itself.

Is Russia downwind?

 

[BrothaBill]

The Iranians are tough mother fuckers as well.

lol, no they are not. They are hapless militarily by all measures.

They are great people so dont call me a racist lol. But the society and culture does not well believe in what the Mullahs and the power system. Its just a wonder that they havent been overthrown yet.

I have conjectured on this talk about Israel and nuclear ambitions as a gambit to stoke nationalistic pride in the theocratic government when Israel finally attacks.

Not they need or would use the nuclear weapons, but support for the government would be rallied around if Israel did attack. Thats why the US wont attack, b/c it will make the people rally against them.

This is just a chess match, they are trying to draw Israel into bombing them. In reality, it stabilizes the government and they lose a few useless factories and then gets rebuilt and gains sympathy making Israel look bad.

If Israel does attack, they should do it and kill all of the Mullahs and create a power vacuum in that country to allow a democratic revolution

 

[75th]

lol, no they are not. They are hapless militarily by all measures.

They are great people so dont call me a racist lol. But the society and culture does not well believe in what the Mullahs and the power system. Its just a wonder that they havent been overthrown yet.

I have conjectured on this talk about Israel and nuclear ambitions as a gambit to stoke nationalistic pride in the theocratic government when Israel finally attacks.

Not they need or would use the nuclear weapons, but support for the government would be rallied around if Israel did attack. Thats why the US wont attack, b/c it will make the people rally against them.

This is just a chess match, they are trying to draw Israel into bombing them. In reality, it stabilizes the government and they lose a few useless factories and then gets rebuilt and gains sympathy making Israel look bad.

If Israel does attack, they should do it and kill all of the Mullahs and create a power vacuum in that country to allow a democratic revolution

Iranians as a people are very tough and determined. Anyone who believes the opposite needs to only look at the Iraq/Iran war. They sent their kids across battlefields to clear the mines for God's sake.

Plus, once Israel does hit Iran (like you said), both Iran and its neighbors will use this incident to declare all out war on Israel.

 

[Subzeero]

Israel attacks Iran.

Iran, unlike 1980's Iraq, fights back.

You actually think that the fight would remain contained between those two countries?

Talk about deluded.

And how will that cause a third world war. Even if Iran does try to retaliate, this war would be called the 'six hour war.'

Which might spark an Iranian revolution. Terms of which i do not wish to discuss yet.

 

[75th]

And how will that cause a third world war. Even if Iran does try to retaliate, this war would be called the 'six hour war.'

Which might spark an Iranian revolution. Terms of which i do not wish to discuss yet.

Both Iran and Israel have some powerful allies that, chances are, they will call upon should the fight get messy.

Believe it or not, there are just a few people in that area who would like to see Israel destroyed.

 

[Subzeero]

lol, no they are not. They are hapless militarily by all measures.

They are great people so dont call me a racist lol. But the society and culture does not well believe in what the Mullahs and the power system. Its just a wonder that they havent been overthrown yet.

I have conjectured on this talk about Israel and nuclear ambitions as a gambit to stoke nationalistic pride in the theocratic government when Israel finally attacks.

Not they need or would use the nuclear weapons, but support for the government would be rallied around if Israel did attack. Thats why the US wont attack, b/c it will make the people rally against them.

This is just a chess match, they are trying to draw Israel into bombing them. In reality, it stabilizes the government and they lose a few useless factories and then gets rebuilt and gains sympathy making Israel look bad.

If Israel does attack, they should do it and kill all of the Mullahs and create a power vacuum in that country to allow a democratic revolution

Excellent post. This is true.

 

[BrothaBill]

Both Iran and Israel have some powerful allies that, chances are, they will call upon should the fight get messy.

Believe it or not, there are just a few people in that area who would like to see Israel destroyed.

75th, I do believe you have become as obtuse as Mavafanculo.
What powerful allies does Iran have??
Dont say Russia or China, they have huge problems of their own, the only reason they do business with Iran is b/c of money and oil. They have no real dogs in that fight to start a global war.
We are allies with Russia in the muslim terrorist fight against Al Qaeda, Chechnya and blue-a-peter

China has serious issues as well. They arent going to destroy life and world peace for a theocratic government such as Iran. They do things on cost/benefit analysis.
They arent going to get involved, no one will, El Baradei of the IAEA said the world is getting sick of this bullshit from Iran, Im paraphrasing of course, but he was the one saying Iraq had no WMDs so he's credible in many eyes.

 

[75th]

75th, I do believe you have become as obtuse as Mavafanculo.
What powerful allies does Iran have??
Dont say Russia or China, they have huge problems of their own, the only reason they do business with Iran is b/c of money and oil. They have no real dogs in that fight to start a global war.
We are allies with Russia in the muslim terrorist fight against Al Qaeda, Chechnya and blue-a-peter

China has serious issues as well. They arent going to destroy life and world peace for a theocratic government such as Iran. They do things on cost/benefit analysis.
They arent going to get involved, no one will, El Baradei of the IAEA said the world is getting sick of this bullshit from Iran, Im paraphrasing of course, but he was the one saying Iraq had no WMDs so he's credible in many eyes.

LOL nice.

Im not trying to be obtuse, but Russia and Iran do have a strong relationship. The fact that it has a foundation on oil doesnt mean that the relationship doesnt exist. Many of the relationships between countries were started because of cash.

And like I said above, there are many nations that would like to see Israel fall, and this could be the spark that ignites a whole movement. Now, keep in mind, im not saying that Israel couldnt handle the likes of Iran and its various smaller buddies because it could if it wanted to, I just think that the entire dismissal of something bigger happening isnt a good idea.

 

[Subzeero]

Both Iran and Israel have some powerful allies that, chances are, they will call upon should the fight get messy.

Believe it or not, there are just a few people in that area who would like to see Israel destroyed.

Yes that is partly true, but the consequence of which you are partly distorting.

It is evident that Isreal's allies are more true to her than that of Iran's. Iran makes a good customer to Russia and China, being able to afford non practical weapons and technology with capital coming from oil revenues. They rather spend that money on infrastructure and help businesses in Iran. This is something that pisses the people of Iran off.

Isreal's relationship with the west on the other hand is based more on 'moral', economical and historical grounds.

If things get messy for Isreal in case Iran does get the backing of Russia and China, it is obvious that her western allies will come to her aid. And for this reason Russia or china will never extensively interfere.

If Iran is left alone, which is most likely, Isreal is ready to manhandle the country.

Future of Iran looks bright to me in that case. Enough is enough with these loony moronic mullahs. Iran is filled with intellectuals.

 

[75th]

Yes that is partly true, but the consequence of which you are partly distorting.

It is evident that Isreal's allies are more true to her than that of Iran's. Iran makes a good customer to Russia and China, being able to afford non practical weapons and technology with capital coming from oil revenues. They rather spend that money on infrastructure and help businesses in Iran. This is something that pisses the people of Iran off.

Isreal's relationship with the west on the other hand is based more on 'moral', economical and historical grounds.

If things get messy for Isreal in case Iran does get the backing of Russia and China, it is obvious that her western allies will come to her aid. And for this reason Russia or china will never extensively interfere.

If Iran is left alone, which is most likely, Isreal is ready to manhandle the country.

Future of Iran looks bright to me in that case. Enough is enough with these loony moronic mullahs. Iran is filled with intellectuals.

Ive been saying for a while now that Iran is the one country we should be prepared to support. As Brothabill and yourself mentioned, the pro-western undercurrent that runs through the younger population is just waiting to take over.

Im not saying that WWIII or something of the sort is assured. However, an attack from Israel may upset the "forward motion" of the country and possibly lead to something bigger.

 

[BrothaBill]

LOL nice.

Im not trying to be obtuse, but Russia and Iran do have a strong relationship. The fact that it has a foundation on oil doesnt mean that the relationship doesnt exist. Many of the relationships between countries were started because of cash.

And like I said above, there are many nations that would like to see Israel fall, and this could be the spark that ignites a whole movement. Now, keep in mind, im not saying that Israel couldnt handle the likes of Iran and its various smaller buddies because it could if it wanted to, I just think that the entire dismissal of something bigger happening isnt a good idea.

I know what some may think of this issue and have analyzed it for some time. Given its history of terrorism support, track record, recent statements and actions.

I really cant see any country in the world giving a shit about Iran's government more than just lip service by politicians.

I think China and Russia would be much happier to see the government reformed and I think slowly things are changing in Iran to against the President even from the usual suspects of hardliners.

Iranian peoples should never be confused with their current government.
This is, IMO, a gambit to win support by some of the hardliners by the more liberal people.

We'll see, but a larger conflict in the region b/c of Iran, I just cant worry about it

 

[GoldenDelicious]

the russians arent willing to go to war - for them its about commerce. theyll be bought (or squeezed) by zionist allies and theyre out of the picture

china is still in "build my base" mode, and isnt going to throw its weight behind iran. they dont need to. they have a firecracker economy, a shitload of people, and other sources of oil. for them, its a waiting game. not time to make a move yet.

i dont think that this will go to war, even after israel bombs iranian sites, or sends commandos into unbombable areas. israel is holding a nuclear trump, and theres too much for iran to lose - and i doubt even the mullahs are stupid enough to have parts of their country glowing with nuclear ash to play the world sympathy card - even were the jews dumb enough to give them the opening.

so, i predict stalemate. its too early in the game. the iranians will creep forward with their nuclear ambitions until world opinion turns fast enough to shut down the israelis and the yanks (thatll be interesting) while shouting that its peaceful, while the israelis will beat their drums to keep them at bay, since theyre fighting a rearguard action - the iranians will go nuclear - its just a question of when, and how - and itll probably be tied to when the two biggest new economies in the world - india and china - hit critical mass and start being independent. in that case, the string pullers in the states and israel better not misstep, or theyll be marginalised

 

[bluepeter]

Interesting discussion. I agree with the stalemate predictions, at least for now. One thing for sure, Israel bombing Iran would not be a good thing for that part of the world.

 

[manny78]

There will be no bombing. Too risky for Isreal (they have to reach Iran first). Nobody wants shit in this area. US, Uk, Russia, China, Arabs. Israel will calm down, Iran will officially keep its nuclear program for "civilian" purposes only and that will make everyone happy.

 

[JustJacked]

There will be no bombing. Too risky for Isreal (they have to reach Iran first). Nobody wants shit in this area. US, Uk, Russia, China, Arabs. Israel will calm down, Iran will officially keep its nuclear program for "civilian" purposes only and that will make everyone happy.

Not true. Israel WILL bomb Iran if they believe Iran is planing on making nuclear weapons. And they can reach iran without refueling. They recentlly aquired a couple dozen bombers from the US that are capable of reaching iran. They were bought from the US about a year or so ago for a discount price. The 'silent' deal being Israel would destroy the Iranian nuclear reactor if it becomes a problem.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Its obvious that Iran isnt going to back down with regards to it's pursuit of nuclear technology. And its even more obvious that Israel will bomb the shit out of whatever buildings hold said technology in the near future.

So, start of WWIII? Iran has Russia, China, etc on its side. Israel, due to the Jewish lobby, has us, UK, etc on theirs.

You're not that well informed on this. When Israel bombs Iran, which they will, NOTHING will happen. Here's why:

Iranians are not "tough". They are a population of younger people (over 50% under age 30) which actually likes the US and is quite pro Western. These people will not fight even for a day in order to preserve a hard line Islamic fundamentalist government.

China is not even remotely allied with Iran. In fact, Israel and China are closely allied trading partners. China would never in a trillion years be drawn into this conflict, but if it were to proceed past a trillion years, they'd side with their valued trading partner. Chinese like Israelis, in fact many Chinese businesspeople refer to themselves as "the Jews of Asia" because of their work habits.

The US is not allied with Israel becuase of the Jewish lobby. The US is allied with Israel because it is the only westernized democracy in a land of totalitarian regimes that allow no human rights whatsoever. Israel has shared values with the US, and Israel, oddly, treats its Muslim population better than any Muslim-ruled country. Isn't it funny that Israel has been led by Netanyahu, Sharon, Rabin etc...elected leaders...while their neighbors are led by Assad, Assad Jr., Hosni Mubarak etc and nothing ever changes in the Muslim countries? Israel > any muslim country by about 1000 light years.

Russia will do what it did when we severed its relationship with Saddam Hussein: nothing. They are a second world country with a third rate military and enough internal problems to deal with.

Israel will bomb Iran and Iran will back down. In the culture of the Middle East, might makes right. Israel is militarily far superior to any nation in the region.

Did you know about the President of Iran and the 12th Imam? You should look into that and see how crazy these people are.

 

[75th]

You're not that well informed on this. When Israel bombs Iran, which they will, NOTHING will happen. Here's why:

Iranians are not "tough". They are a population of younger people (over 50% under age 30) which actually likes the US and is quite pro Western. These people will not fight even for a day in order to preserve a hard line Islamic fundamentalist government.

China is not even remotely allied with Iran. In fact, Israel and China are closely allied trading partners. China would never in a trillion years be drawn into this conflict, but if it were to proceed past a trillion years, they'd side with their valued trading partner. Chinese like Israelis, in fact many Chinese businesspeople refer to themselves as "the Jews of Asia" because of their work habits.

The US is not allied with Israel becuase of the Jewish lobby. The US is allied with Israel because it is the only westernized democracy in a land of totalitarian regimes that allow no human rights whatsoever. Israel has shared values with the US, and Israel, oddly, treats its Muslim population better than any Muslim-ruled country. Isn't it funny that Israel has been led by Netanyahu, Sharon, Rabin etc...elected leaders...while their neighbors are led by Assad, Assad Jr., Hosni Mubarak etc and nothing ever changes in the Muslim countries? Israel > any muslim country by about 1000 light years.

Russia will do what it did when we severed its relationship with Saddam Hussein: nothing. They are a second world country with a third rate military and enough internal problems to deal with.

Israel will bomb Iran and Iran will back down. In the culture of the Middle East, might makes right. Israel is militarily far superior to any nation in the region.

Did you know about the President of Iran and the 12th Imam? You should look into that and see how crazy these people are.

If youve read my posts in the past regarding Iran you will see that I am well aware of the pro-western undercurrent that runs throughout the younger population. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, the younger population isnt in control of the country.

You honestly dont see any chance that this could start a preverbial shit storm in the area that affects nations outside of Iran and Israel?

 

[gotmilk]

If youve read my posts in the past regarding Iran you will see that I am well aware of the pro-western undercurrent that runs throughout the younger population. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, the younger population isnt in control of the country.

You honestly dont see any chance that this could start a preverbial shit storm in the area that affects nations outside of Iran and Israel?

Who's going to get upset? The Syrians? Jordanians? Indians?

Other than intruding airspace, it would be a good old fashioned ass-bombing. By the way, my Dad's Unit is being redeployed to finish bases near the Iranian border. Ironic timing...considering the undertones coming from Israel.

My Dad's unit often gets deployed to set up staging areas and supply centers prior to....shall we call it....infiltration?

 

[75th]

Who's going to get upset? The Syrians? Jordanians? Indians?

Other than intruding airspace, it would be a good old fashioned ass-bombing. By the way, my Dad's Unit is being redeployed to finish bases near the Iranian border. Ironic timing...considering the undertones coming from Israel.

My Dad's unit often gets deployed to set up staging areas and supply centers prior to....shall we call it....infiltration?

LOL nice.

My point is that Israel doesnt have too many friends in the area. Discounting the standard palestinian bitching, for some reason I just dont see them getting away as clean this time around.

 

[gotmilk]

LOL nice.

My point is that Israel doesnt have too many friends in the area. Discounting the standard palestinian bitching, for some reason I just dont see them getting away as clean this time around.

I think foreign countries hated Israel far more in the 70's than they do now.

The terrorist attacks in Jordan were a major shock. I think some people understand that fanatics need a good asskicking...even if they are muslims.

Iran is pretty close to a social change anyhow. You have a third rate Iranian military holding a sham party together. One good asskicking will cause a revolution there.

 

[AristotleBC]

the russians arent willing to go to war - for them its about commerce. theyll be bought (or squeezed) by zionist allies and theyre out of the picture

china is still in "build my base" mode, and isnt going to throw its weight behind iran. they dont need to. they have a firecracker economy, a shitload of people, and other sources of oil. for them, its a waiting game. not time to make a move yet.

i dont think that this will go to war, even after israel bombs iranian sites, or sends commandos into unbombable areas. israel is holding a nuclear trump, and theres too much for iran to lose - and i doubt even the mullahs are stupid enough to have parts of their country glowing with nuclear ash to play the world sympathy card - even were the jews dumb enough to give them the opening.

so, i predict stalemate. its too early in the game. the iranians will creep forward with their nuclear ambitions until world opinion turns fast enough to shut down the israelis and the yanks (thatll be interesting) while shouting that its peaceful, while the israelis will beat their drums to keep them at bay, since theyre fighting a rearguard action - the iranians will go nuclear - its just a question of when, and how - and itll probably be tied to when the two biggest new economies in the world - india and china - hit critical mass and start being independent. in that case, the string pullers in the states and israel better not misstep, or theyll be marginalised

One thing is almost for certain, no matter what happens, we can count on you to piss and moan about US involvement in it

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If youve read my posts in the past regarding Iran you will see that I am well aware of the pro-western undercurrent that runs throughout the younger population. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, the younger population isnt in control of the country.

You honestly dont see any chance that this could start a preverbial shit storm in the area that affects nations outside of Iran and Israel?

Have you ever heard of Victor Hanson? If you haven't, you should check out his writings. I've never read anyone who writes with such clarity about the region.

In 1980, Israel bombed Iraq without incident. The mighty USSR, which as you know had been selling weapons to Iraq and many others in the region, did nothing.

Russia is not the USSR. It is a backward country continually teetering between oligarchy and collapse. They can't even control Chechnya and for some time were paying their lower enlisted soldiers in sausages. For real, sausages.

Iran's military cannot deploy, and even if they tried, they would be obliterated by Israel. Iran's military would have to have some of the lowest morale you can find - how hard do you fight for a government that represses you and that you do not believe in?

Who would join Iran? Syria? We know how well they fought against Israel last time they tried....I think they lost 82 planes to 0 lost for Israel. Egypt? Never. Egypt needs US aid money more than Israel. Even if Egypt were to join Iran, the last time Egypt fought Israel, only the US exerting political stopped Israel from taking Cairo.

Despite all the talk, no middle eastern muslim country wants war with Israel anymore. Their totalitarian leaders have realized that Israel is more useful to blame for why their country sucks, rather than dealing with their own dispossed marching on the capital.

 

[75th]

One thing is almost for certain, no matter what happens, we can count on you to piss and moan about US involvement in it

 

[75th]

Have you ever heard of Victor Hanson? If you haven't, you should check out his writings. I've never read anyone who writes with such clarity about the region.

In 1980, Israel bombed Iraq without incident. The mighty USSR, which as you know had been selling weapons to Iraq and many others in the region, did nothing.

Russia is not the USSR. It is a backward country continually teetering between oligarchy and collapse. They can't even control Chechnya and for some time were paying their lower enlisted soldiers in sausages. For real, sausages.

Iran's military cannot deploy, and even if they tried, they would be obliterated by Israel. Iran's military would have to have some of the lowest morale you can find - how hard do you fight for a government that represses you and that you do not believe in?

Who would join Iran? Syria? We know how well they fought against Israel last time they tried....I think they lost 82 planes to 0 lost for Israel. Egypt? Never. Egypt needs US aid money more than Israel. Even if Egypt were to join Iran, the last time Egypt fought Israel, only the US exerting political stopped Israel from taking Cairo.

Despite all the talk, no middle eastern muslim country wants war with Israel anymore. Their totalitarian leaders have realized that Israel is more useful to blame for why their country sucks, rather than dealing with their own dispossed marching on the capital.

Havent read any of his writings. Ill try to track some down this evening.

 

[satchboogie]

ok lets get some facts straight..

IRAN is a bunch of faggot pussies with absolutely zero army.. their chances of doin any damage to israel in case of war are extremely unlikely.. almost like me gettin preganant.

the israeli army is, arguably, the most intelliegent in the world.
if israeli had the number of soldiers that the u.s does, it would easily be the strongest army in the world.. in fact, israel helps the u.s with military intelligence.. keep in mind for 58 years israel has been on the defensive.. every day!!!!!!!

but IRAN isnt alone../
they will be joined by syria and lebanon.. which are pussy countries too with zero army. i doubt egypt will join... and heavily doubt jordan will join... saudi arabia may join but unlikely. china wont do shit... neither will russia.

what WILL happen though if any muslim country attempts to attack israel is a collaboration from the u.s, u.k, and turkey. and quite frankly, the muslim fucknuts stand zero chance.

they're suicidal though.. and have no value for life.. which makes them so much more dangerous.. like the 'kamikazees'....

the only threat from the pussy arab countries is nuclear bombs... but israeli radars and planes are working 24/7... the country is constantly on the defensive.. crazy shit.

either way, IRAN can suck a big fat dick. . fuckin punk ass muslim extremist bitches!
waste of earth space if you ask me!

 

[redguru]

You're not that well informed on this. When Israel bombs Iran, which they will, NOTHING will happen. Here's why:

Iranians are not "tough". They are a population of younger people (over 50% under age 30) which actually likes the US and is quite pro Western. These people will not fight even for a day in order to preserve a hard line Islamic fundamentalist government.

China is not even remotely allied with Iran. In fact, Israel and China are closely allied trading partners. China would never in a trillion years be drawn into this conflict, but if it were to proceed past a trillion years, they'd side with their valued trading partner. Chinese like Israelis, in fact many Chinese businesspeople refer to themselves as "the Jews of Asia" because of their work habits.

The US is not allied with Israel becuase of the Jewish lobby. The US is allied with Israel because it is the only westernized democracy in a land of totalitarian regimes that allow no human rights whatsoever. Israel has shared values with the US, and Israel, oddly, treats its Muslim population better than any Muslim-ruled country. Isn't it funny that Israel has been led by Netanyahu, Sharon, Rabin etc...elected leaders...while their neighbors are led by Assad, Assad Jr., Hosni Mubarak etc and nothing ever changes in the Muslim countries? Israel > any muslim country by about 1000 light years.

Russia will do what it did when we severed its relationship with Saddam Hussein: nothing. They are a second world country with a third rate military and enough internal problems to deal with.

Israel will bomb Iran and Iran will back down. In the culture of the Middle East, might makes right. Israel is militarily far superior to any nation in the region.

Did you know about the President of Iran and the 12th Imam? You should look into that and see how crazy these people are.

I agree, I see a no-win situation for Iran. I cannot understand why they would posture like they do, it's insanity on a national scale. The only major Muslim military players in the region would be Pakistan and the Turks. The Turks aren't going to do anything that would jeopardize their economy and Musharref is playing ball with us to stay in power.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Havent read any of his writings. Ill try to track some down this evening.

start here www.victorhanson.com

He has a book out called "between war and peace". awesome.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Hopefully Iran and Isreal will annihalate each other and we dont have to hear a single whining word from either of of them ever again.

Isreal has brought us nothing but problems.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I agree, I see a no-win situation for Iran. I cannot understand why they would posture like they do, it's insanity on a national scale. The only major Muslim military players in the region would be Pakistan and the Turks. The Turks aren't going to do anything that would jeopardize their economy and Musharref is playing ball with us to stay in power.

The Turks participate in military exercises with Israel. It is on the down low. Musharraf has publicly stated that "he has no idea why his country is an enemy of Israel".

Here is some info about the President of Iran

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_10945.shtml Excerpt as follows:

a keynote speech on Wednesday to senior clerics, Ahmadinejad spoke of his strong belief in the second coming of Shi'ite Muslims' "hidden" 12th Imam.

According to Shi'ite Muslim teaching, Abul-Qassem Mohammad, the 12th leader whom Shi'ites consider descended from the Prophet Mohammed, disappeared in 941 but will return at the end of time to lead an era of Islamic justice.

"Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.

"Therefore, Iran should become a powerful, developed and model Islamic society."

"Today, we should define our economic, cultural and political policies based on the policy of Imam Mahdi's return. We should avoid copying the West's policies and systems," he added, newspapers and local news agencies reported.

Some more:

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/11/184cb9fb-887c-4696-8f54-0799df747a4a.html


This guy is trying to implement policy based on beliefs that are too primitive for the year 1500 and he is their President? The fact that the UN gives this assnozzle an audience is further testimony to their uselessness. That, though is well established. Only dictators and European leaders believe in the UN.

One can only hope that Israel destroys Iran's nuclear capacity, and while they are at it, Teheran as well.

 

[satchboogie]

Hopefully Iran and Isreal will annihalate each other and we dont have to hear a single whining word from either of of them ever again.

Isreal has brought us nothing but problems.

youve offically been RED K'd!

 

[ChefWide]

Isreal's permanent place on the scapegoat wall of shame in every Arab/Persian/SouthAsian/Muslim boardroom and governmental office is among the only reasons that these uber-banana...er... date-republics have any hold on their teeming seething masses in the first place: someone EXTERNAL to blame with the whooping added bonus of being JEWS!! that any and all Muslim and pseudo-muslim based government can use as a double whammy to distract their masses from the fact that they DEFINE the very basest and most striking forms of have vs. have nots on this planet.


You take israel out of the picture? BOOM! Muslim governments will topple from within faster than you can say 'Allah Ahkbar'.

You are suggesting Hozne and the boys will fight against israel in reference to that lunatic assembly in iran that WILL nuke the regions oilfields just out of spite of the west?

i think NOT.


Do not be surprised when it comes out that most of israels 'enemies' on its borders actually help the Isrealis do as they please, when they please, as often as they please to Iran.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

One thing is almost for certain, no matter what happens, we can count on you to piss and moan about US involvement in it

parrallel to the certainty that the US will justify plainly self-serving immoral behaviour with empty mouthings of "helping people", yes.

 

[BrothaBill]

parrallel to the certainty that the US will justify plainly self-serving immoral behaviour with empty mouthings of "helping people", yes.

Yknow the majority of Australians hate Greeks and Lebanese, better not move to Sydney

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Yknow the majority of Australians hate Greeks and Lebanese, better not move to Sydney

yeah i know. they hate the lebs because theyre violent, wannabe gangster pussies, and the greeks because we get all the chicks.

sucks to be white, i guess

unless youre a chick...then you might get some greek lovin

 

[AristotleBC]

parrallel to the certainty that the US will justify plainly self-serving immoral behaviour with empty mouthings of "helping people", yes.

Is it your contention then that the US only engages in behavior solely on the condition that it is beneficial to us?


The US has never been that realpolitick you pestering prick, and even in the times that we have, (Iraq), the often end-result is good for the people/country involved.

I'm sure you consider yourself hip and fashionable with your endless stream of anti-US hyperbole (as it is such for most medium-grade intellectuals in Europe/Australia these days), any person who makes absolutist statements about the motivations of a country over 50 years of foreign policy has a stark reasoning deficit.

For instance:

Do you think we called in ~30,000 marines to Somalia and left some of our people dead there to steal their peanut brittle?

And if you acknowledge that indeed, we did spend millions to billions in an operation to stop the genocidal wars in that country out of altruistic reasons, than your original comment is necessarily incorrect, and an exaggeration against America, which IMO, applies to virtually all of your posts...


By the way, how are the race riots in Australia going? Have you killed any muslims yet?

 

[Subzeero]

The US has never been that realpolitick you pestering prick, and even in the times that we have, (Iraq), the often end-result is good for the people/country involved.

You are hinting as if a democratic, capitalist constitution is somehow divinely infallible and is strangely always suitable for the psyche of a nation quite evidently ill prepared for such reforms. As a matter of fact it is outrageous as enlightened as you may seem, would make a comment the likes of this.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Is it your contention then that the US only engages in behavior solely on the condition that it is beneficial to us?

mostly, yes.

The US has never been that realpolitick you pestering prick, and even in the times that we have, (Iraq), the often end-result is good for the people/country involved.

in regards to your "pestering prick" comment, im tempted to tell you to get to your knees and pay homage to my cock with your lips, but not only would that be crass and a tad out of line with the otherwise playful, bantering nature of CnC, i would probably get all of your various boyfriends' diseases...so ill politely ignore you, instead. nice guy, hey

in regards to the rest of that paragraph, that "the end result is good for the people/country involved", well, i suppose tahts a matter of perspective, isnt it. if youre a fat american on his laptop observing the conflict on CNN and being righteous on EF, then i suppose yes, it IS good for the country/people involved. if, on the other hand, youre an iraqi with a couple of tonnes of concrete piled on your decaying body, then its probably not. there are, after all, only about a hundred thousand of those over there. its all a matter of perspective, you see and if youre lucky enough to be alive and not missing any family members, well then, i suppose youre much, MUCH better off that a foreign government has taken control of your country's natural resources, and is funnelling them out. i mean, selling those commodities on the open market and actually spending the money on YOURSELF would no doubt lead to you getting into all sorts of trouble. its much better that you remain in poverty. after all, what rich man has gone to paradise?

I'm sure you consider yourself hip and fashionable with your endless stream of anti-US hyperbole (as it is such for most medium-grade intellectuals in Europe/Australia these days), any person who makes absolutist statements about the motivations of a country over 50 years of foreign policy has a stark reasoning deficit.

i dont think im hip or fashionable. irressistably handsome, maybe, but niether of those two i just say things as i see them, so youll have to excuse me if i dont jump on your "all the way with the USA!" bandwagon, while we go to war with iraq because al quaida...no, WMD...no because saddam was just a bad guy...no, to install DEMOCRACY! yeah, thats it. sorry, i got a bit confused, for a second.

anyway anyone would be foolish to treat a nation, governed by many minds over the course of generations as a single entity when it comes to deciphering its motives. after all, the very pieces of that nation responsible for making decisions (the leaders) are in flux. it follows on, then, that so too will the motives themselves. it is fair, however, to look at how they have acted in the short to medium term and make generalisations about the mindset that various leaderships have had. if YOU, on the other hand, cant make that distinction, well, what can i say...perhaps the name "aristotle", particularly the connotations of a historically notable man, is somewhat less than appropriate for you to go by

For instance:

Do you think we called in ~30,000 marines to Somalia and left some of our people dead there to steal their peanut brittle?

no, you did that because you needed that area stable at the time. its interesting that the US picks and chooses when and where to help, and that everytime it does, there seem to be convenient 'benefits' of doing so.

And if you acknowledge that indeed, we did spend millions to billions in an operation to stop the genocidal wars in that country out of altruistic reasons, than your original comment is necessarily incorrect, and an exaggeration against America, which IMO, applies to virtually all of your posts...

well, i dont acknowledge it.

By the way, how are the race riots in Australia going? Have you killed any muslims yet?

a couple of things:

first, no, no muslims have been killed. or any whites, for that matter.

secondly, i happen to be one of those men "of middle eastern or meditterranean appearance" and hence, am a member of one of the minorities targetted by those people involved in the past days rioting - and thirdly, your attempt to smear me with the actions of a highly publicised event orchestrated by very few of my fellow citizens is not only a cheap shot, but fatally obtuse...but then, YOU did say it, so it makes sense i suppose. you dont look for poetry in a pigpen, after all

 

[75th]

in regards to the rest of that paragraph, that "the end result is good for the people/country involved", well, i suppose tahts a matter of perspective, isnt it. if youre a fat american on his laptop observing the conflict on CNN and being righteous on EF, then i suppose yes, it IS good for the country/people involved. if, on the other hand, youre an iraqi with a couple of tonnes of concrete piled on your decaying body, then its probably not. there are, after all, only about a hundred thousand of those over there. its all a matter of perspective, you see and if youre lucky enough to be alive and not missing any family members, well then, i suppose youre much, MUCH better off that a foreign government has taken control of your country's natural resources, and is funnelling them out. i mean, selling those commodities on the open market and actually spending the money on YOURSELF would no doubt lead to you getting into all sorts of trouble. its much better that you remain in poverty. after all, what rich man has gone to paradise?

3/4 of Iraqis are happy with life at the moment. Less than 1/5 actually fear any sort of violence. Most see absolutely none in their neighborhood. The average Iraqi salary has risen almost 60% since Saddam was in charge. 65% of Iraqis how have cell phones, compared to 6% when Saddam was in charge. Ownership of satellite dishes, washing machines, dishwashers, etc has jumped 58%. Most of all, 80% of Iraqis believe the situation will only improve over the coming years.

These, my friends, are facts, compared to the emotional drivel you feel content to post.

You can bitch all you want, but apparently the Iraqi people disagree with you.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

3/4 of Iraqis are happy with life at the moment. Less than 1/5 actually fear any sort of violence. Most see absolutely none in their neighborhood. The average Iraqi salary has risen almost 60% since Saddam was in charge. 65% of Iraqis how have cell phones, compared to 6% when Saddam was in charge. Ownership of satellite dishes, washing machines, dishwashers, etc has jumped 58%. Most of all, 80% of Iraqis believe the situation will only improve over the coming years.

These, my friends, are facts, compared to the emotional drivel you feel content to post.

You can bitch all you want, but apparently the Iraqi people disagree with you.

would you like to post the study procedure and methodology that produced the statistics youre quoting. without it, your stats have the credibility and clout of DJ_UFO.

cheerios

 

[AristotleBC]

You are hinting as if a democratic, capitalist constitution is somehow divinely infallible and is strangely always suitable for the psyche of a nation quite evidently ill prepared for such reforms. As a matter of fact it is outrageous as enlightened as you may seem, would make a comment the likes of this.
<what??>

(This response is for both you and Golden Delicious' last post.)



If you Subzeero are referring to Iraq, time will tell, but if our plan works and they become an independent democracy the way Japan and Germany have, then I am sure the majority will prefer that way of life to life under Saddam. ~98% of the Kurds already have a favorable opinion of the US and the results its presence because of the protectorate we and Britain have maintained there.

===


It seems to me that if the results of your actions help you, and also help those which are the recipients of those actions, you have found a solution in which most everyone wins, and is "good."


One could compare it to the "teach a man to fish" parable.

If Bob does not know how to fish, and I give him 20 fish, I have helped him, but I have suffered from the loss.

If I teach Bob to fish, and in return he agrees to give me 20 fish because the time I spend teaching him will take away from my own fishing, then Bob now eats for life and I might have some more fish as well.


Which is the "better" solution? I suspect Bob will be happier with the second solution, as will I, because not only have I helped Bob, but I may have come out with a few more fish as well.


(Note that people with leftist points of view will often theoretically favor the first option of hand-out fish... as the analogy can also be applied fairly accurately (IMO) to foreign affairs, perhaps some parallels in the way those with a leftist mindset think can be observed. They seem to think that an action is only valid if the the person who takes it does not benefit themselves, regardless of how it affects those they are helping. This is what I would call a "stupid" way of thinking.)


===


Compare to Germany in World War II for instance.

After WWII, we did a couple things. We helped West Germany become a relatively free democratic state. We (at the very real risk of war) stood against the Soviet Union at Berlin. Then, when the USSR collapsed, East and West Germany were reunited and they are now an autonomous democracy with a better standard of living for their citizens then ever in history.


Did we help Germany become a democratic state purely out of alturism? Did we risk nuclear war with the USSR soley for the principle of it?

No.

By doing what we did in Germany (and Japan, and France, and South Korea), we defended our way of life, (free, democratic capitalism) against a force whom wished to change that way of life to Unfree totalitarianism incorrectly termed communism.

Working this way to ensure our security helped us. Working this way to allow Japan, Germany and South Korea to become the free, prosperous nations they are today also helped them.

No one of any sense is going to attempt to claim that these nations would have been better off had we:

- Left all of Germany to Soviet rule
- Left Japan in tatters to become whatever it might
- Have South Korea be just like North Korea


===



The same thing is happening now in Afghanistan and Iraq. That some of the dunces around here cannot recognize that this methodology has been the policy of the US for 60 years is merely another example of the fact that statistically you'll find many types of opinion, no matter how stupid.


One can argue about Iraq fitting this profile to some extent because it was obviously an elective war. However, if the end result is that Iraq becomes a stable, prosperous democracy, which helps provides an example to the region, than in all likelyhood, a result similar to that which you've seen above will be reality.


Of course, people like Golden Delicious, who is apparently so confident of his handsomeness that he has to remind us a couple times in each post he makes, can, will and did say stuff like:

- Oh well I doubt the French citizens killed at D-Day think THEY'RE better off.

- Oh I doubt the South Koreans killed during the Korean war think THEY'RE better off.

and so forth.

But overall, taken as a country, the majority of the people and the world ARE better off for what took place.

If Iraq goes to plan, the same thing will apply.


And uh, so far the US as a country has not benefited too much from the war in Iraq.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

ps: very handsome

 

[GoldenDelicious]

pps: very, very handsome

 

[AristotleBC]

I doubt it - Speaking from experience, most people who are assured of their attractiveness are unconcerned with talking about it all the time, unless they have insecurities elsewhere and take disproportionate pride in their looks (hence focusing on it an excessive amount)

And honestly, no one on here cares. It would be like me saying my penis was big several times on each thread.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

you need to go to ebay.com bro

in the search field, type in "sense of humour"

buy the most expensive you can afford. trust me.

 

[AristotleBC]

You are wrong again, there is no "sense of humour" category.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

isnt there? that sucks. oh well, theres always the "very good looking" category. head over there and buy some GoldenDelicious merchandise

ppps very extremely handsome

 

[Spartacus]

I actually can understand the Iranian's "chief" request that Isreal should have been located somewhere in Europe.
Makes more sense.
I have a dempgraphic map of Palestine/Isreal showing population figures for the various areas in the region before 1948.
Basically about 80% palestinian

 

[JustJacked]

I actually can understand the Iranian's "chief" request that Isreal should have been located somewhere in Europe.
Makes more sense.
I have a dempgraphic map of Palestine/Isreal showing population figures for the various areas in the region before 1948.
Basically about 80% palestinian

Before 1948 Israel was under British rule. The Brits hightailed it outa there after they lost a couple of there troops. They said fuckit, we shoudlnt be involved in this anyways. They stepped back in again only when the Jews had slaughtered the Arabs for invading there country. After Egypt invaded Israel, the Jews drove the Egyptions deep inside there own country and when they were about to take over Cairo, the Brits said, 'whoaa, slow down or your gonna make war with us!' The only defense the Arabs had was the British stepping in and defending them.

Yes, it was mostly Palestinian before 1948, but three thouthand years ago it was mostly Jews and called Israel. Before that it was five diferent peoples living there. Mostly Canaanites which were disgusting people who sacrificed there children to there 'god' Moloch. The Israelites banished these sick bastards from the land.

3000 years ago Israel consisted of 45,000 sq miles of land. Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 sq miles. Now even less since they gave some to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, whose so-called 'muslim brothers', who have plenty of land, more than they need, wouldnt even OFFER to give them some land to live on! Wow, thats some good 'brothers' you they got there! No offers of money, food, or land. Just told them to send there wife and children strapped with bomb on suicide missions.

 

[75th]

would you like to post the study procedure and methodology that produced the statistics youre quoting. without it, your stats have the credibility and clout of DJ_UFO.

cheerios

Look for my other thread that was started yesterday entitled "71% of Iraqis say life is good."

 

[bluepeter]

Before 1948 Israel was under British rule. The Brits hightailed it outa there after they lost a couple of there troops. They said fuckit, we shoudlnt be involved in this anyways. They stepped back in again only when the Jews had slaughtered the Arabs for invading there country. After Egypt invaded Israel, the Jews drove the Egyptions deep inside there own country and when they were about to take over Cairo, the Brits said, 'whoaa, slow down or your gonna make war with us!' The only defense the Arabs had was the British stepping in and defending them.

Yes, it was mostly Palestinian before 1948, but three thouthand years ago it was mostly Jews and called Israel. Before that it was five diferent peoples living there. Mostly Canaanites which were disgusting people who sacrificed there children to there 'god' Moloch. The Israelites banished these sick bastards from the land.

3000 years ago Israel consisted of 45,000 sq miles of land. Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 sq miles. Now even less since they gave some to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, whose so-called 'muslim brothers', who have plenty of land, more than they need, wouldnt even OFFER to give them some land to live on! Wow, thats some good 'brothers' you they got there! No offers of money, food, or land. Just told them to send there wife and children strapped with bomb on suicide missions.

Yes and my family owned thousands of acres of land in Scotland 500 years ago so I think I'm going to go claim it as mine.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Before 1948 Israel was under British rule. The Brits hightailed it outa there after they lost a couple of there troops. They said fuckit, we shoudlnt be involved in this anyways. They stepped back in again only when the Jews had slaughtered the Arabs for invading there country. After Egypt invaded Israel, the Jews drove the Egyptions deep inside there own country and when they were about to take over Cairo, the Brits said, 'whoaa, slow down or your gonna make war with us!' The only defense the Arabs had was the British stepping in and defending them.

Yes, it was mostly Palestinian before 1948, but three thouthand years ago it was mostly Jews and called Israel. Before that it was five diferent peoples living there. Mostly Canaanites which were disgusting people who sacrificed there children to there 'god' Moloch. The Israelites banished these sick bastards from the land.

3000 years ago Israel consisted of 45,000 sq miles of land. Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 sq miles. Now even less since they gave some to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, whose so-called 'muslim brothers', who have plenty of land, more than they need, wouldnt even OFFER to give them some land to live on! Wow, thats some good 'brothers' you they got there! No offers of money, food, or land. Just told them to send there wife and children strapped with bomb on suicide missions.

No logical person can deny that the Israelis have done more in the Middle East is 60 years than Muslims in the last 1,000.

One does often wonder why, alone among historical grievances, Jews have had their land restored to them. What would have been wrong with placing Israel in Montana? Or Mongolia?

 

[JustJacked]

Yes and my family owned thousands of acres of land in Scotland 500 years ago so I think I'm going to go claim it as mine.

So what are you trying to say? That made no sense at all. Are you saying that whatever we conquer/take is ours? If so then the palestinians have a right to that land cause the Mohamadans conquered in the 8th century. But then your also saying that the Jews have a right to the land cause they conquered after World War II. Or are you just saying that right before the second world war was how it should be for the rest of eternity? I think you are confused my friend. You are highly UN-intelligent and should refrain from posting on any thread that has a mildly serious topic.

 

[bluepeter]

So what are you trying to say? That made no sense at all. Are you saying that whatever we conquer/take is ours? If so then the palestinians have a right to that land cause the Mohamadans conquered in the 8th century. But then your also saying that the Jews have a right to the land cause they conquered after World War II. Or are you just saying that right before the second world war was how it should be for the rest of eternity? I think you are confused my friend. You are highly UN-intelligent and should refrain from posting on any thread that has a mildly serious topic.

Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 square miles

You claim the land is Israel's because it was theirs 3000 years ago and they were justified in taking it back and question my intelligence? LOL

Perhaps you should read my comment again since by your logic, I should be able to attack Scotland and take back the land that was mine 500 years ago. Sorry if that was too taxing for you to understand.

You can debate all you want whose land it is since Israel forcibly took it but to argue it is Israel's land because it was their land 3000 years ago is laughable.

 

[JustJacked]

No logical person can deny that the Israelis have done more in the Middle East is 60 years than Muslims in the last 1,000.

One does often wonder why, alone among historical grievances, Jews have had their land restored to them. What would have been wrong with placing Israel in Montana? Or Mongolia?

These are all mysteries. Its Bible stuff. In my opinion, and that of many others as well, they have their land restored because they saw an opertunity and acted upon it. The world was weak after WWII. People were tired. The Jews, who should have been the weakest remainded strong. They had been planing there return to Israel for some time now, even before the war. They had been secretly sending weapons and men to Israel. They duked it out with a couple British soldiers. A couple Brits were murdered, a couple Jews were murdered. And the Brits said fuck it, we just had a war dont need another, and left it for the Arabs to take care of. They basically agreed that the Jews had a right to the land.

So the Jews finnally got sick of it and took back there land. For over 2000 years they ran amongst the world humblly and wondered why they had no land. Wondered when God would give them back there land. They finally said fuck it, heres an opertunity to take back ours. The world is weak, the Brits dont want another war just to keep Israel, and the Arabs have no chance at all. So they did it. Some say its God who gave them the opertunity, some say its just 'chance'. Who knows. But I say they are some strong fucking people to take over a country and fight off 5 invading countries, while being out numbered 5-1, after almost being anihalated by the Germans in WWII.

 

[JustJacked]

You claim the land is Israel's because it was theirs 3000 years ago and they were justified in taking it back and question my intelligence? LOL

Perhaps you should read my comment again since by your logic, I should be able to attack Scotland and take back the land that was mine 500 years ago. Sorry if that was too taxing for you to understand.

You can debate all you want whose land it is since Israel forcibly took it but to argue it is Israel's land because it was their land 3000 years ago is laughable.

I can and will question your intelligence because obviaslly you know nothing of history. The Israelites were the first civilized people to settle on the land. All the other nations who ruled it before are either extinct or just plain evil. Who had Israel before they did? The Babylonians? Where are they? What about the Assyrians? Ya good one buddy, give the land to Syria! A country whos leader publicly supports terrorism! Ya, give him all of Israels nucs too! The fact is, Israelites were the first civilized and morally right people to ever inhibit the land. Its there land. No one will ever take it from them again. If you want to discuss history you should educate yourself first. What you learnd in your canadian high school classes is not true history.

 

[bluepeter]

I can and will question your intelligence because obviaslly you know nothing of history. The Israelites were the first civilized people to settle on the land. All the other nations who ruled it before are either extinct or just plain evil. Who had Israel before they did? The Babylonians? Where are they? What about the Assyrians? Ya good one buddy, give the land to Syria! A country whos leader publicly supports terrorism! Ya, give him all of Israels nucs too! The fact is, Israelites were the first civilized and morally right people to ever inhibit the land. Its there land. No one will ever take it from them again. If you want to discuss history you should educate yourself first. What you learnd in your canadian high school classes is not true history.

What the hell are you going on about? I'm aware of the historical timeline, what does that have to do with..............fuck never mind. woosh

 

[manny78]

3000 years ago Israel consisted of 45,000 sq miles of land. Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 sq miles. Now even less since they gave some to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, whose so-called 'muslim brothers', who have plenty of land, more than they need, wouldnt even OFFER to give them some land to live on! Wow, thats some good 'brothers' you they got there! No offers of money, food, or land. Just told them to send there wife and children strapped with bomb on suicide missions.

I support Israel just because they're the only democracy out there. But any biblical/historical justification for their claims is point less and at best, a myth. I dont believe in any of this old testament BS nor do I care if someone had this or that 500 years ago. If that was the case then Native-americans could probably claim half of the US, Mexico could go back to pre-1848 borders..... it's done.

 

[bluepeter]

I support Israel just because they're the only democracy out there. But any biblical/historical justification for their claims is point less and at best, a myth. I dont believe in any of this old testament BS nor do I care if someone had this or that 500 years ago. If that was the case then Native-americans could probably claim half of the US, Mexico could go back to pre-1848 borders..... it's done.

Thank you.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

These are all mysteries. Its Bible stuff. In my opinion, and that of many others as well, they have their land restored because they saw an opertunity and acted upon it. The world was weak after WWII. People were tired. The Jews, who should have been the weakest remainded strong. They had been planing there return to Israel for some time now, even before the war. They had been secretly sending weapons and men to Israel. They duked it out with a couple British soldiers. A couple Brits were murdered, a couple Jews were murdered. And the Brits said fuck it, we just had a war dont need another, and left it for the Arabs to take care of. They basically agreed that the Jews had a right to the land.

So the Jews finnally got sick of it and took back there land. For over 2000 years they ran amongst the world humblly and wondered why they had no land. Wondered when God would give them back there land. They finally said fuck it, heres an opertunity to take back ours. The world is weak, the Brits dont want another war just to keep Israel, and the Arabs have no chance at all. So they did it. Some say its God who gave them the opertunity, some say its just 'chance'. Who knows. But I say they are some strong fucking people to take over a country and fight off 5 invading countries, while being out numbered 5-1, after almost being anihalated by the Germans in WWII.

The Brits were tired after WW2 - that's also when India broke away.

I don't have any issues with the Israelis being there. The entire Muslim middle east is a shitstain on humanity (like Islam itself). Israel's presence heightens a lot of tensions, but that's chiefly because the US (before Bush) lacked the balls to do anything about the muslim pigs in the middle east.

 

[Y_lifter]

I don't think much will happen other than lots of dead Iranian/Russian Scientists...

China knows where its bread is buttered so to speak and won't risk
pissing off its largest importer. USA

Russia has lots of people but no way to get them near a war zone or any weapons
to speak of that are operational. I doubt most of their nukes are truely 100% operational these days due to lack of maintenance since the late 80's..
So they won't start anything.

 

[redguru]

I don't think much will happen other than lots of dead Irania Scientists...

China knows where its bread is buttered so to speak and won't risk
pissing off its largest importer. USA

Russia has lots of people but no way to get them near a war zone or any weapons
to speak of that are operational. I doubt most of their nukes are truely 100% operational these days due to lack of maintenance since the late 80's..
So they won't start anything.

If you change that to a bunch of dead Russian scientists working in Iran, I would tend to agree with you. Tho, they are getting paid better in Iran than in Russia.

 

[Spartacus]

Before 1948 Israel was under British rule. The Brits hightailed it outa there after they lost a couple of there troops. They said fuckit, we shoudlnt be involved in this anyways. They stepped back in again only when the Jews had slaughtered the Arabs for invading there country. After Egypt invaded Israel, the Jews drove the Egyptions deep inside there own country and when they were about to take over Cairo, the Brits said, 'whoaa, slow down or your gonna make war with us!' The only defense the Arabs had was the British stepping in and defending them.

Yes, it was mostly Palestinian before 1948, but three thouthand years ago it was mostly Jews and called Israel. Before that it was five diferent peoples living there. Mostly Canaanites which were disgusting people who sacrificed there children to there 'god' Moloch. The Israelites banished these sick bastards from the land.

3000 years ago Israel consisted of 45,000 sq miles of land. Now when they took back there land they have a mere 8,000 sq miles. Now even less since they gave some to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, whose so-called 'muslim brothers', who have plenty of land, more than they need, wouldnt even OFFER to give them some land to live on! Wow, thats some good 'brothers' you they got there! No offers of money, food, or land. Just told them to send there wife and children strapped with bomb on suicide missions.

that was then,this is now(last century or so)
bottom line creating the Israeli state smack dab in the midst of the arab peoples' was,is and will continue to be a powder keg

props to the Israeli's though for kicking ass in the war of independence in '48

my solution
give them all of sub-saharan africa
run the motherfucker and get those areas up to speed
you know they would
win-win situation as long as the indigenous people's don't get their nose's bent out of shape being run by the white man

 

[Spartacus]

These are all mysteries. Its Bible stuff. In my opinion, and that of many others as well, they have their land restored because they saw an opertunity and acted upon it. The world was weak after WWII. People were tired. The Jews, who should have been the weakest remainded strong. They had been planing there return to Israel for some time now, even before the war. They had been secretly sending weapons and men to Israel. They duked it out with a couple British soldiers. A couple Brits were murdered, a couple Jews were murdered. And the Brits said fuck it, we just had a war dont need another, and left it for the Arabs to take care of. They basically agreed that the Jews had a right to the land.

So the Jews finnally got sick of it and took back there land. For over 2000 years they ran amongst the world humblly and wondered why they had no land. Wondered when God would give them back there land. They finally said fuck it, heres an opertunity to take back ours. The world is weak, the Brits dont want another war just to keep Israel, and the Arabs have no chance at all. So they did it. Some say its God who gave them the opertunity, some say its just 'chance'. Who knows. But I say they are some strong fucking people to take over a country and fight off 5 invading countries, while being out numbered 5-1, after almost being anihalated by the Germans in WWII.

you forgot the Russians

Pogroms against the Jews
[edit]

In Tsarist Russia

Massive violent attacks against Jews date back at least to the Crusades or earlier (see York Castle), but the term pogrom as a reference to large-scale, targeted, and repeated anti-Jewish rioting only saw use beginning in the 19th century. The first pogrom of this sort is often considered to be the 1821 anti-Jewish riots in Odessa after the death of the Greek Orthodox patriarch in Constantinople, in which 14 Jews were killed.[1] Other sources, such as the Jewish Encyclopedia say the first pogrom was the 1859 riots in Odessa. The term became common after a large-scale wave of anti-Jewish riots swept southern Imperial Russia (modern Poland, Ukraine, Republic of Moldova) in 1881-1884, after Jews were wrongly blamed for the assassination of Tsar Alexander II.
The victims, mostly Jewish children, of a 1905 pogrom in Yekaterinoslav (today's Dnipropetrovsk).
Enlarge
The victims, mostly Jewish children, of a 1905 pogrom in Yekaterinoslav (today's Dnipropetrovsk).

In the 1880s outbreak, thousands of Jewish homes were destroyed, many families reduced to extremes of poverty; women sexually assaulted, and large numbers of men, women, and children killed or injured in 166 Russian towns. The new Tsar Alexander III blamed the Jews for the riots and issued a series of harsh restrictions on Jews. The series of pogroms continued for more than three years with at least tacit inactivity and in some cases, support by the authorities.

An even bloodier wave of pogroms broke out in 1903-1906, leaving an estimated 2,000 Jews dead, and many more wounded. The New York Times described the First Kishinev pogrom of Easter, 1903:

"The anti-Jewish riots in Kishinev, Bessarabia, are worse than the censor will permit to publish. There was a well laid-out plan for the general massacre of Jews on the day following the Russian Easter. The mob was led by priests, and the general cry, "Kill the Jews," was taken up all over the city. The Jews were taken wholly unaware and were slaughtered like sheep. The dead number 120 [Note: the actual number of dead was 47-48] and the injured about 500. The scenes of horror attending this massacre are beyond description. Babes were literally torn to pieces by the frenzied and bloodthirsty mob. The local police made no attempt to check the reign of terror. At sunset the streets were piled with corpses and wounded. Those who could make their escape fled in terror, and the city is now practically deserted of Jews." [2]

At least some of the pogroms have been organized[3] or supported by the Tsarist Russian secret police, the Okhranka. Such facts as the indifference of Russian police and army were duly noted, e.g., during the three-day First Kishinev pogrom of 1903, as well as the preceding inciting anti-Jewish articles in newspapers, a hint that pogroms were in line with the internal policy of Imperial Russia. There is also evidence that the police knew in advance about some pogroms, and chose not to act. Members of the army also actively participated in pogroms in Bialystok (June 1906) and Siedlce (September 1906). The most violently anti-Semitic movement during this period was the Black Hundred, which actively participated in the pogroms.

Even outside of these main outbreaks, pogroms remained common — there were anti-Jewish riots in Odessa in 1859, 1871, 1881, 1886 and 1905 in which hundreds were killed in total.
[edit]

During the Russian Revolution

Many pogroms accompanied the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the ensuing Russian Civil War, an estimated 70,000 to 250,000 civilian Jews were killed in the atrocities throughout the former Russian Empire; the number of Jewish orphans exceeded 300,000. In his book 200 Years Together, Alexander Solzhenitsyn provides the following numbers from Nahum Gergel's 1951 study of the pogroms in the Ukraine: out of estimated 887 mass pogroms, about 40% were perpetrated by the Ukrainian forces led by Symon Petliura, 25% by the Green Army and various nationalist and anarchist gangs, 17% by the White Army, especially forces of Anton Denikin, and 8.5% by the Red Army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

 

[redguru]

Worried about this power vacuum, with Sharon incapacitated. This brings Netanyahu to the forefront of Israeli politics and will stir the pot in the Middle East some. Sharon shows some restraint, Netanyahu's restraint would be making sure the bodies are identifiable.