Watch out: Proviron IS suppressive (lab results)

[Anakin]

I just want to say everyone should be careful about using proviron as part of PCT. My lab results seem to prove that it IS suppressive.

I got blood work done 1 month after my 3-week cycle ended and LH and FSH were ZERO, while total test was 84 (or 87). I was still taking proviron at the time at 25mg per day.
After seeing that my HPTA hadn't even started to recover, I decided to stop taking proviron because I assumed that was keeping me shut down.

Last Friday, or 2 weeks after dropping proviron, I got blood drawn again, and results show that my HPTA has finally started to recover.
LH 0.5 (normal 0.8-7.6)
FSH 2.1 (normal 0.7-11.1)
Testosterone 151 (normal 262~900)

As a side note, cabergoline has long lasting effects. I stopped taking cabergoline 1 month ago (I was taking 1mg two times per week), and prolactin is still ZERO. So that shit is pretty powerful.

 

[Lestat]

Good info.

Proviron can be effective while on cycle, it give a good libido boost and is a mild anti E.

 

[Anakin]

Here is the last thread I posted about being shut down if anyone cares about background info.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295110

All I'm saying is if you use proviron for PCT, don't use if for a month like I did because it can keep you shut down.

Also, it's interesting that FSH is now higher than it was before the cycle (I believe it was somewhere around 1.1 or 1.5, I can't find the original thread).

 

[Anakin]

By the way, I will be getting hcg, clomid, and nolva this week, but I'm having second thoughts about using them.

hcg is suppressive, so I don't want to short-circuit my natural recovery since it's starting to happen on its own. As of last week, my nuts are feeling fuller and hanging more comfortably (instead of that tight/up feeling). What does everyone think?

 

[doublebicep]

I agree with your thinking. Skip the HCG. Only use HCG during your cycle. Towards the end is nice to get the boys back up to speed before starting PCT.

I always wondered how or why Proviron was not suppressive. Your evidence / experience does seem to indicate that it is suppresive.

 

[georgie24]

everyone's different

 

[Animal]

You got the test to back it up?

 

[trinidad]

I'll be using proviron during my next cycle....never thought about using it for PCT. Good info, though.....

 

[eviction]

i wouldnt always jump to conclusions like that... i read a post that explains why bro...

The auditive capacity of the limbs of Aracnhaie spiderman .
Klutz et al, dep. of Sciences, University of Junk Science, Moronóvia

Objective:
To proof that the auditive apparatus of spiders is in their legs.

Methods:
We divided 20 spider in 2 groups;
Group A has all legs,
Group B had all legs cut off.
We made a loud noise and only spiders from group A moved.

Conclusions

Without their legs, spiders cannot hear.

 

[TxLonghorn]

I like proviron during pct, but not everyday...just those days when I'm going out on a date, or might get some. I figure take turns with this and cialis, and you shouldn't be taking proviron for more than a couple days/week.

 

[Slyder190]

I beleived it to be true from all I had read researched, and I was right.

 

[Mavy]

I like proviron during pct, but not everyday...just those days when I'm going out on a date, or might get some. I figure take turns with this and cialis, and you shouldn't be taking proviron for more than a couple days/week.

Bro you have to use proviron continuosly to get the libido and wood effects, not like Viagra where you can pop one and get wood in an hour.

Anakin, I would suggest a mild dose of HCG, nothing drastic, (or high enough to de-sensitize your LH receptors), along with the nolvadex to kickstart your balls back into production mode. How long has it been since you last shot?

 

[Mavy]

I like using proviron, for the 3 week period between the last shot of a long ester and the beginning of PCT.

 

[Anakin]

Mavy, my last shot of primo was on December 14 I believe. I know it is a long ester etc etc but I find it interesting that only once I dropped the primo did my LH and FSH jump up from zero.

 

[blut wump]

i wouldnt always jump to conclusions like that... i read a post that explains why bro...The auditive capacity of the limbs of Aracnhaie spiderman .
Klutz et al, dep. of Sciences, University of Junk Science, Moronóvia

Objective:
To proof that the auditive apparatus of spiders is in their legs.

Methods:
We divided 20 spider in 2 groups;
Group A has all legs,
Group B had all legs cut off.
We made a loud noise and only spiders from group A moved.

Conclusions

Without their legs, spiders cannot hear.

I think there's a flaw in this experiment. There should be a control group to which were fitted some prosthetic spider legs. With the experiment as presented, it's possible that the spiders were traumatized into deafness. With some prosthetics attached they wouldn't be so upset at losing their legs.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Any time the body gets an exogenous compound it will...

A: develop a tolerance

B: develop a dependance. (In other words, supressive).

It's biology 101.

Who was it that was breaking my balls about this? -- saying that some Medline study showed proviron wasn't supressive so it was okay to use as much as you want for as long as you want and how I don't cite scientific studies and blah, blah, blah, blah...

Simple biology my friends.

Proviron is cerainly LESS suppresive than AAS and is okay when used to cushion a crash, and it's actually an under rated anti e. But there are no free rides. People must begin to accept this, but some are still stuck in the "Fonz" era where as you can cut and paste a random study that supports your belief you can do whatever you want with no consequences.

This is one of the concepts behind UNLEASHED. A supplement that lowers SH BG like Proviron with no supression -- because it doesn't ADD anything. It just blocks the enzyme which constricts free testosterone from being released. Pretty clever actually.

 

[artificialaspirations]

I think there's a flaw in this experiment. There should be a control group to which were fitted some prosthetic spider legs. With the experiment as presented, it's possible that the spiders were traumatized into deafness. With some prosthetics attached they wouldn't be so upset at losing their legs.

Or they couldn't move because they didn't HAVE LEGS.

 

[slat1]

I have done extensive research on proviron and its effects.
There is a lot of conflicting reports out there.
Until someone gets blood work done competely clean, then runs proviron and gets it done, then comes off and gets it done the debate will rage on.
For me, when there is conflicting info I side with that it is supressive. It is the responsible thing to do!

 

[blut wump]

Any time the body gets an exogenous compound it will...

A: develop a tolerance

B: develop a dependance. (In other words, supressive).

It's biology 101.

Who was it that was breaking my balls about this? -- saying that some Medline study showed proviron wasn't supressive so it was okay to use as much as you want for as long as you want and how I don't cite scientific studies and blah, blah, blah, blah...

Simple biology my friends.

Proviron is cerainly LESS suppresive than anabolic androgenic steroids and is okay when used to cushion a crash, and it's actually an under rated anti e. But there are no free rides. People must begin to accept this, but some are still stuck in the "Fonz" era where as you can cut and paste a random study that supports your belief you can do whatever you want with no consequences.

This is one of the concepts behind UNLEASHED. A supplement that lowers SH BG like Proviron with no supression -- because it doesn't ADD anything. It just blocks the enzyme which constricts free testosterone from being released. Pretty clever actually.

We're just coming to the end of a rather lengthy discussion at AFboard on this very topic, if you're interested in participating. I'm sure that your opinions would be valued there.

 

[Nelson Montana]

We're just coming to the end of a rather lengthy discussion at AFboard on this very topic, if you're interested in participating. I'm sure that your opinions would be valued there.

Hmm, I have a hard time believing that since it never was before by the people who run it.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Speaking from personal experience... I definitely think Proviron has a degree of suppression and should not be heavily relied upon during PCT or especially after. It certainly helps you *feel* better in the short-term... maybe even prolong a crash... but if a crash is going to happen, it's going to happen...regardless of proviron...I just felt that it delayed my recovery... it's almost like using it to help keep the "high" from your previous cycle, and you're getting that "fix" to avoid coming down and feeling like crap... personally, I would use proviron during cycles along with test... great combo... be very careful using it when coming off... just my 2 cents.

 

[st8grad]

I think is was AL240 that debated it with you.

Not that I am taking sides because I do like a lot of his posts too.

The other point is that maybe your LH and FSH would have been zero 1 month out anyway.

To test this properly you would have to do two cycles of exactly the same length. One with Proviron and one without. Then blood values would have to be taken at the exact same intervals for each. Not to mention your starting values would need to be in a very close ballpark.

I think it is safe to say that all steroids are suppressive. Some more than others. But possibly they can exert that effect to a greater extent if you are already suppressed from other compounds. Just a thought.

Also Unleashed is great stuff.

Any time the body gets an exogenous compound it will...

A: develop a tolerance

B: develop a dependance. (In other words, supressive).

It's biology 101.

Who was it that was breaking my balls about this? -- saying that some Medline study showed proviron wasn't supressive so it was okay to use as much as you want for as long as you want and how I don't cite scientific studies and blah, blah, blah, blah...

Simple biology my friends.

Proviron is cerainly LESS suppresive than anabolic androgenic steroids and is okay when used to cushion a crash, and it's actually an under rated anti e. But there are no free rides. People must begin to accept this, but some are still stuck in the "Fonz" era where as you can cut and paste a random study that supports your belief you can do whatever you want with no consequences.

This is one of the concepts behind UNLEASHED. A supplement that lowers SH BG like Proviron with no supression -- because it doesn't ADD anything. It just blocks the enzyme which constricts free testosterone from being released. Pretty clever actually.

 

[gjohnson5]

NM

Speaking from personal experience... I definitely think Proviron has a degree of suppression and should not be heavily relied upon during PCT - post cycle therapy - or especially after. It certainly helps you *feel* better in the short-term... maybe even prolong a crash... but if a crash is going to happen, it's going to happen...regardless of proviron...I just felt that it delayed my recovery... it's almost like using it to help keep the "high" from your previous cycle, and you're getting that "fix" to avoid coming down and feeling like crap... personally, I would use proviron during cycles along with test... great combo... be very careful using it when coming off... just my 2 cents.

 

[gjohnson5]

Last I checked that was some 6 months ago, correct?

Hmm, I have a hard time believing that since it never was before by the people who run it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think is was AL240 that debated it with you.


To test this properly you would have to do two cycles of exactly the same length. One with Proviron and one without. Then blood values would have to be taken at the exact same intervals for each. Not to mention your starting values would need to be in a very close ballpark.

Also Unleashed is great stuff.

Good point, and thanks. Glad the UNLEASHED worked for you.

gjohnson. I don;t think 6 month will matter. We're at odds and at very different ends of the spectrum on most issues. They're into overkill, I'm into safety. They sell supps, I design supps that are competition for them. There's also resentment because they were able to control me while they were mods here and now I've essentially "replaced" them so I doubt they're going to welcome me with open arms.

And by the way, I like some of AL240's posts too. But he was really pushing this in my face even though I knew he was wrong, but I let it go. Sometimes that's best.

 

[xrsist]

iv was always told provirion was suppressive and dont use it during p c t...

 

[gjohnson5]

I'll admit that the personal nature of this is 50/50.
I'm just wondering when your resentment for them has caused customers to buy more of your products?

If it's not making your money why not let go?
Same goes for them

gjohnson. I don;t think 6 month will matter. We're at odds and at very different ends of the spectrum on most issues. They're into overkill, I'm into safety. They sell supps, I design supps that are competition for them. There's also resentment because they were able to control me while they were mods here and now I've essentially "replaced" them so I doubt they're going to welcome me with open arms.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'll admit that the personal nature of this is 50/50.
I'm just wondering when your resentment for them has caused customers to buy more of your products?

If it's not making your money why not let go?
Same goes for them

Oh, I don't think more people buy my products because I resent them. I don't resent them. I think more people are buying my products because they're better and less expensive.

Let what go? We have differences of opinion and I doubt that going over to their territory to give my point of view will be welcome. That's all.

 

[doublebicep]

Hmm, I have a hard time believing that since it never was before by the people who run it.

but some are still stuck in the "Fonz" era where as you can cut and paste a random study that supports your belief you can do whatever you want with no consequences.

LMFAO! Funny diggs Nelson!