Vet Grade Injectable Vitamins- Are they SAFE ?

[gunner44]

Ok folks, I need some solid advice on this.

I am going to try to treat my tennitus with a mega dosing cycle of vitamin A. I plan to use a cattle grade of vitamin AD, because I cant convince any doctor to try to treat my tinnitus (ringing in the ears)

I found info on a research study done by the germans back in the 40's..and they had great success with mega doses of vitamin A for a 6 week cycle.

Since I am not new to injecting vet grad shit in my ass, I am not really worried about using the stuff I got.

But here is where I need some help from you medical and chemist types. Here are the listed ingrediants for this cattle vitamin:

Each Ml contains
500,000 IU Vitamin A
75,000 IU Vitamin D3

Imulsified in a base with vitamin E (antioxidant), N-methylprrolidone,polyoxyethylated (30) castor oil, propylene glycol dicaprylate, polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan monooleate and benzyl alcohol 2%

Is there any type of ester in this stuff?
What about the castor oil?

Thanks for any help everyone.

 

[halfaclue]

my 2 cents....I used vitamin B vet grade and I think it works great, never had any different results from regualr vitamin B other then the vet grade is about 80 times cheaper.

 

[Nelson Montana]

That is a very, very bad idea. For 3 reasons.

1: There is no benifit to injecting vitamins, They're very absorable taken orally. (The way they were intended).

2: They're cheap, so why would you want to fool with animal products?

and 3: That much Vitamin would be toxic.

But, whatever...

 

[macDbol]

exactly vitamin A can be toxic in large dosages, thats why u see high potency multi's use beta-caratine as the source

 

[jubei]

If you are going to go to the trouble of injecting something, first make sure its worth your while to do so.

 

[satchboogie]

nelson has it right on the money.
i stay away from all vet gear including fina.

 

[gunner44]

guys, iam not an idiot here...i have a very sane reason for injecting vitamins.

If you know anything about tinnitus, you would be willing to do anything within reason to treat it.

Nelson: man with your recent condition, I bet you would be willing to try whatever might work to cure your condition. Please dont patronize me on this.

OK so here is the reason I asked the question in the first place:

http://www.tinnituspage.org/clinical2.htm

Check out this link. Tell me if you still thinki am wacked in the head.

Does anyone know anything about my original question? Most of the stuff in these vitamins are used in other pharmacuticles, so I imagine they would be safe.

I need input on the ingredients in this stuff...not a lecture on the usage of vitamins. I already know I can probably drink this shit and get the same results...but in the clinical trials, it was injected.So what the hell...it only takes like 1/2 of a cc to get 250,000 IU. Seems easier than taking it oraly.

Since I plan on taking 300,000 IU x2 times week, it seems like I would have take A HUGE amount of orals to get the same dosage. This vet shit is WAY concentrated!

 

[gunner44]

my 2 cents....I used vitamin B vet grade and I think it works great, never had any different results from regualr vitamin B other then the vet grade is about 80 times cheaper.

No shit bro... a huge bottle of B12 COmplex only costs like 9 bucks at the feed store!!

I plan to inject that shit while I am at it with the Vitamin AD, supposed to also have similar effects in reducing symptoms of tinnitus.

Sure wish I could get big jugs of vet juice like this at the feed store...oh well

 

[Sleekphysique]

VITAMIN A in large doses causes LIVER FAILURE AND DEATH

 

[gunner44]

VITAMIN A in large doses causes LIVER FAILURE AND DEATH

Got any info on just HOW MUCH is a large dosage?

What about duration or cycle length?

Havent been able to get any solid info on Vitamin A poisioning and actual dosages.

Any help would be appreciated bro!

Thanks

 

[Nelson Montana]

Patronizing? I think you have the wrong word. At any rate, no, I would not be willing to do ANYTHING -- not anything that's obviously harmful at least.

Dude, that study you posted was from 19 fucking fifty two! Maybe you should add some brewers yeast and leeches to the program.

 

[macDbol]

http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/ID=910

 

[halfaclue]

Nelson, not to take sides but DNP was used as a weight loss drug in the 50's and no one diagrees that A) it can kill you and B) it works better then anything.

Gunner is looking for help here. How many guys on this site have injected vet grade B-12? Do a search there are thousands....obvioulsy gunner is not asking for ways to kill himself and he has pointed out he understands the risk...what about answering the question he asked? I personally have no clue about the vitamins he is asking about...all I know is regular B-12 compared to vet grade B-12 worked the same for me.

 

[satchboogie]

compared to humans, the immune system of dogs and horses is far less susceptible to sickness and/or complications.

with that in mind, it is pretty reasonable to conclude that manufactureres of vet produts are less sanitary in the production process.

now i'm not saying that using vet products will cause problems but you will have to agree that the risk is greater. so why take a chance?

human grade all the way.

 

[halfaclue]

satch...simple math....100cc's Vet B-12 $6
100cc's of human grade b-12 $200.....having $194 left over to buy gear...priceless.

 

[gunner44]

Patronizing? I think you have the wrong word. At any rate, no, I would not be willing to do ANYTHING -- not anything that's obviously harmful at least.

Dude, that study you posted was from 19 fucking fifty two! Maybe you should add some brewers yeast and leeches to the program.

Dude, for someone who acts like they know everything, you are pretty dense. FOr a refresher here is the definition of the word.

pa•tron•ize

Pronunciation: (pA'tru-nIz", pa'-), [key]
—v.t., -ized, -iz•ing.
1. to give (a store, restaurant, hotel, etc.) one's regular patronage; trade with.
2. to behave in an offensively condescending manner toward: a professor who patonizes his students.
3. to act as a patron toward (an artist, institution, etc.); support. Also, esp. Brit.,pa'tron•ise".

I think you fit the criteria for #2

This pretty much sums up a lot of your off the cuff smart assed posts, but that is just how you are.

As far as the date of the study, what does that have to do with the revelvancy of the results.

If you can read, then you must have noticed the significant improvement. Hard to argue with that, even if the study is from the friggin 50's DUDE!

BTW, I think that AAS were invented about the same time, do you not take AAS cuz they been around longer than you have hmmm??

 

[satchboogie]

satch...simple math....100cc's Vet B-12 $6
100cc's of human grade b-12 $200.....having $194 left over to buy gear...priceless.

i think your human vet quote is slightly off but either way the huge price difference is quite dramatic.

but let me say one thing....
have you ever spend $100 on jeans or a jacket?
the answer is probably yes.

now, what's more important do you think? your health or a piece of clothing?

i'd rather spend the $200 on human grade then save $194 and take a chance with my well-being.

but to each his own, and i respect your view.

 

[Spidey]

Each Ml contains
500,000 IU Vitamin A
75,000 IU Vitamin D3

Imulsified in a base with vitamin E (antioxidant), N-methylprrolidone,polyoxyethylated (30) castor oil, propylene glycol dicaprylate, polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan monooleate and benzyl alcohol 2%

Is there any type of ester in this stuff?
What about the castor oil?

Thanks for any help everyone.

To answer your question directly: Yes, the propylene glycol dicaprylate and sorbitan monooleate are esters. When they are hydrolized they will give propylene glycol and sorbitan as well as caprylic acid and oleic acid (fatty acids). I don't see anything in the ingredients you list that will hurt you (unless you have an allergic reaction to something).

The castor oil is probably the source of the vitamin A.

As to taking mega doses of fat soluble vitamins, I would consult a doctor first. As I am sure you know, they can be dangerous. It can't hurt to ask a Dr. They do have your best interests in mind. I would xerox the study you posted and show it to your Dr. and see what he/she has to say.

 

[gunner44]

Re: Re: Vet Grade Injectable Vitamins- Are they SAFE ?

To answer your question directly: Yes, the propylene glycol dicaprylate and sorbitan monooleate are esters. When they are hydrolized they will give propylene glycol and sorbitan as well as caprylic acid and oleic acid (fatty acids). I don't see anything in the ingredients you list that will hurt you (unless you have an allergic reaction to something).

The castor oil is probably the source of the vitamin A.

As to taking mega doses of fat soluble vitamins, I would consult a doctor first. As I am sure you know, they can be dangerous. It can't hurt to ask a Dr. They do have your best interests in mind. I would xerox the study you posted and show it to your Dr. and see what he/she has to say.

Spidey, what type of half life would you expect for this stuff. If it is esterized, does this mean it is a timed release product?

Thanks bro for helping with my original question

 

[Nelson Montana]

Man, some people can't take a joke. And I still don't see how I was being patronizing in my first post.

It's amazing - I bring up what believe is some helpful info and I get my balls busted. Read my original post again.

 

[Spidey]

Re: Re: Re: Vet Grade Injectable Vitamins- Are they SAFE ?

Spidey, what type of half life would you expect for this stuff. If it is esterized, does this mean it is a timed release product?

Thanks bro for helping with my original question

I think I may have taken your original question to literally. Let me clarify: Yes, there are esters in that mix but the vitamins themselves are not esterified. So no, it isn't a time release kind of deal. The esters in this mix are probably just part of the excipient used to solublize the active ingredients (the vitamins). The half life of these "inert ingredient" esters is not important and has no impact on the release of the vitamins.

At the risk of sounding like Chicken Little, what you are proposing is very dangerous. One good overdose of vitamin A can have dire consequences, even death. Please consult a physician before you do this. Don't just take medical advice from an online forum from people whom you don't even really know.

 

[gunner44]

Man, some people can't take a joke. And I still don't see how I was being patronizing in my first post.

It's amazing - I bring up what believe is some helpful info and I get my balls busted. Read my original post again.

Nelson, maybe it is just me, but I dont always get your "DRY" sense of humor.

Maybe its cuz you are the guy with the "Look at my Book,Iam an Expert" quote you have there at the end of all your posts.

I just cant tell anymore when you are fucking around, or talking DOWN to (i.e. Patronizing) someone.

 

[gunner44]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vet Grade Injectable Vitamins- Are they SAFE ?

I think I may have taken your original question to literally. Let me clarify: Yes, there are esters in that mix but the vitamins themselves are not esterified. So no, it isn't a time release kind of deal. The esters in this mix are probably just part of the excipient used to solublize the active ingredients (the vitamins). The half life of these "inert ingredient" esters is not important and has no impact on the release of the vitamins.

At the risk of sounding like Chicken Little, what you are proposing is very dangerous. One good overdose of vitamin A can have dire consequences, even death. Please consult a physician before you do this. Don't just take medical advice from an online forum from people whom you don't even really know.

Call me crazy, but I dont think that a short regieme of mega dosing vitamins would be fatal.

From what I have read, Vitamin A can have negative effects in high doses, but I am infering that this takes some considerably amount of time.

If mega doses like 600,000 IU were in fact deadly, dont you think that a lot of the patients from those 1950's studies would have died?

Shit 600,000 IU all at once is a HUGE dose. I dont think the doctors back then would hhave administered a dose that high if it were in fact deadly.

This is where I still need some help. I know that Vitamin A can be dangerous , but what is the required exposure time ? I cant seem to find any info on htis at all.

I really to think that these obscure tests done in the 1950's in themselves, de bunk the idea that vitamin A is deadly, even at high dosages.

Thanks for the info on the ester thing bro. I do appreciate it. I am getting closer to sticking this pin in my ass real soon, then we will all know if anything has changed since the 1950's LOL

 

[Spidey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vet Grade Injectable Vitamins- Are they SAFE ?

Call me crazy, but I dont think that a short regieme of mega dosing vitamins would be fatal.

From what I have read, Vitamin A can have negative effects in high doses, but I am infering that this takes some considerably amount of time.

Again, the best person to ask would be a DOCTOR.

If mega doses like 600,000 IU were in fact deadly, dont you think that a lot of the patients from those 1950's studies would have died?

Shit 600,000 IU all at once is a HUGE dose. I dont think the doctors back then would hhave administered a dose that high if it were in fact deadly.

Maybe, maybe not. Medical ethics were a lot different then. There were many instances of medical professionals putting people's lives at risk in the name of scientific research.

I really to think that these obscure tests done in the 1950's in themselves, de bunk the idea that vitamin A is deadly, even at high dosages.

Were the patients in that study followed up on after any length of time? How do you know they didn't die?

I realize you are going to do what you are going to do. All I am saying is it might be a good idea to ask someone in a position to know the answers to your questions of safety.

Good luck.

 

[halfaclue]

satch

I'm a poor ass 26 year old....I don't buy new clothes unless I get to big for the ones I have....I pay my bills and whats left I pay for supplemnets and protein via meat and seafood and that is my life. I hear what your saying but the way i look at is everytime you stick a pin your body it could be the last act you do...risks are associated with anything...is a vet grad going to be sub-par to humane grad....maybe...but here in the US mad cow disease slips through because beef lobbyists are more important then our children who eat at Burger King. Mexican grad gear is no where the quality of some eropean gear and I take the chance that some cracked out mexican who polished off a case of coronas just did the mixing. Maybe it is my niavete' but I do not feel any more at risk injecting vet B-12 or Mex Suspension or Eruo Sustonon.....

On a side note, last week I have been getting crappy sleep because I am taking DNP...woke thursday late for work and had to do my morning stick...filled the syringe, changed needles, stuck it in my back side and before I pushed in the pin I looked back to aspirate and I never cleared the air....seconds away from possible killing myself. Moral of the story...don't stick yourself when you have a sleep.

 

[jubei]

Jesus Christ listen to spidey and speak to a doctor.

 

[gunner44]

Jesus Christ listen to spidey and speak to a doctor.

Bro, I have spoke with my doc, and according to him, there is no treatment for Tinnitus.

I say bullshit to that!!

Come on people, this is a steroid site for christ sake?

Where are your BALLS ?


I have been researching and I have found med studies that said "less than 250,00IU for several months, is rarely toxic"

Thats good enough for me folks.

Nelson, If I find a cure for artheritis, Ill be sure NOT to tell you !


(That was my version of dry humor. DId i sound like a dick?)

 

[granby140]

too much vit A can be really hazardous so watch how much you take.

 

[AustinTX]

Injectable vitamin A is given by or under the supervision of a health care professional.

Vitamin A is stored in the body; therefore, when you take more than the body needs, it will build up in the body. This may lead to poisoning and even death. Problems are more likely to occur in:
· Adults taking 7500 RE (25,000 Units) a day for 8 months in a row, or 450,000 RE (1,500,000 Units) all at once

Note: Acute toxicity has been reported at a single dose of 450,000 RE (1,500,000 Units). Chronic toxicity has been reported at doses of 7500 RE (25,000 Units) a day for eight months. However, individuals with compromised liver function may develop toxicity at lower doses.

VITAMIN A INJECTION

Usual adult and adolescent dose
Deficiency (prophylaxis or treatment)
Intravenous infusion, as part of total parenteral nutrition solutions, the specific amount determined by individual patient need.

Intramuscular, 15,000 to 30,000 RE (50,000 to 100,000 Units) a day for three days, followed by 15,000 RE (50,000 Units) a day for two weeks.


Remember that the total amount of vitamin A you get every day includes what you get from foods that you eat and what you take as a supplement.


Symptoms of a vitamin A overdose include tiredness, discomfort, lethargy, upset stomach, decreased appetite, vomiting, slow or decreased growth, joint soreness, irritability, headache, drying and cracking of the lips and skin, hair loss, and yellowing of the skin.

• Stop taking vitamin A and seek emergency medical attention if you experience an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives).
• Other, less serious side effects may occur with large doses or prolonged use of vitamin A. Notify your doctor if you experience
· tiredness;
· nausea, vomiting, or decreased appetite;
· irritability;
· headache;
· dryness or cracking of the lips or skin; or
· hair loss.

Some conditions may increase your need for vitamin A. These include:
· Diarrhea
· Eye diseases
· Intestine diseases
· Infections (continuing or chronic)
· Measles
· Pancreas disease
· Stomach removal
· Stress (continuing)

Other medical problems:
The presence of other medical problems may affect the use of vitamin A. Make sure you tell your health care professional if you have any other medical problems, especially:
· Alcohol abuse (or history of)
· Liver disease -- Vitamin A use may make liver problems worse
· Kidney disease -- May cause high blood levels of vitamin A, which may increase the chance of side effects

Vitamin A has not been proven effective for treatment of renal calculi, hyperthyroidism, anemia, degenerative conditions of the nervous system, sunburn, lung diseases, deafness, osteoarthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, or psoriasis.

 

[kayaker]

Vitamin A

Too much of many vitamins will give you negative effects, esp the fat soluble ones (A,D,E,K). Vit A specifically will cause rashes and possibly death. Check history books on artic explorers. Many died mysteriously. Turns out it was due to eating polar bear liver which happens to store a good ten years worth of Vit A

 

[doubles1]

love this post...

 

[gunner44]

Well, thanks for the advice and the warnings.

I have decided to go ahead and try the treatment for my tinnitus

I will administer 250,000 IU Vitman A along with 37,500 IU of Vitamin D every 4 days for 6 weeks.

If I begin to experience and Toxic side effects to the vitamin a, I will stop ASAP.

I will keep you all informed.

If i dont , then I must be dead! LOL

 

[Skepticore]

Concerning the morality of scientific research on humans, there was a successful lawsuit filed in the mid 90's against Vanderbilt University, where doctors years before had injected patients (pregnant females I think) with radioactive substances...without their knowledge!

Did this happen in the 50's? Hell no, it happened in the 70's! My point is that you have to be careful when interpreting results of studies. I haven't read the study you're referring to, but you'd do well to ask,"What is the intent of this study?" Was it gov.t sponsored? Military? Many experiements have been conducted on human beings, and they all haven't been benign. Google the chemical "BZT" and you'll find some interesting reading.

Not trying to dissuade you, just trying to say BE CAREFUL. There are people here who encourage mega doses of AS as well...

 

[Only1eagle]

I use vet grade b-12.

Works like a charm! cheaper and same consistency. Yup may not be AS clean as human grade b/c of the standards enforcing it.

However, for all the "I only use human grade" people, I wish I had your cash!!!

 

[halfaclue]

Preach on Legal! Its all about the bejamins

 

[slaughterhouse]

you do realize that since vit A is fat soluble your body will have a hard time getting rid of it if you od...
you say youll stop with toxic symptoms but by then it will more then likely be to late. If you experiance such symptoms get to a hospital, although i dont know what they could do for you

i wouldnt be courting organ damage if i were you

 

[jboldman]

First: have you tried other less potentially harmful approaches to helping tinnitus such as l-acetyl carnitine, ala, nac, and a few others? I would try those first. I know what you are feeling as i am a long time tinnitus sufferer.

second; this whole idea that veterinary drugs are somehow contaminated, impure, do not have to hold to strict standards is just so much bullshit. They are controlled just like human drugs by the fda (the FDA Center for Veterinary medicine). This whole "I would never use an vet drug" attitude is so much opinionated elitism. The truth of the matter is that vet b-12 is every bit as potent and safe to use as human grade! Naturally vet drugs may(or may not) come in dosing that might be inappropriate for human use and you need use a reasonable amount of caution to insure that your dose and use are appropriate.

Bottom line, if you do not want to use them for whatever reason, don't ! but do not go around talking them down without just reason.


jb

 

[T2O]

Bro I why don't you try cutting the Vit A dose in half. I wouldn't really fuq with it too much.

 

[chronik000]

the vet grade of b12 is awesome man, im gonna use it for the rest of my freakin awesome, Dude i would do so more research and then just go for it, might as well try it!

 

[white boy]

First: have you tried other less potentially harmful approaches to helping tinnitus such as l-acetyl carnitine, ala, nac, and a few others? I would try those first. I know what you are feeling as i am a long time tinnitus sufferer.
jb [/QUOTE

also VINPOCETINE is suposed to be effective for tinnitus


second; this whole idea that veterinary drugs are somehow contaminated, impure, do not have to hold to strict standards is just so much bullshit. They are controlled just like human drugs by the fda (the FDA Center for Veterinary medicine). This whole "I would never use an vet drug" attitude is so much opinionated elitism. The truth of the matter is that vet b-12 is every bit as potent and safe to use as human grade! Naturally vet drugs may(or may not) come in dosing that might be inappropriate for human use and you need use a reasonable amount of caution to insure that your dose and use are appropriate.

Bottom line, if you do not want to use them for whatever reason, don't ! but do not go around talking them down without just reason.
jb [/B]

exactly, and who would use these "vet products" if they caused infections and abcesses on their animals?

 

[gunner44]

UPDATE---


Well for all you nay sayers...you were wrong!

I have completed my first 6 week cycle of Mega Dosing Vit A @ 250000 iu once per week, and I have had some very impressive results.

I had a hearing test done before and after the cycle at my guard unit, and they couldnt believe the difference. I have moved from a level3 to a level2 in both ears. I would say that my hearing improved about 25% over all. I have also noticed a change in my tinitus.

My tinitus is still present, but the pitch of the ringing is now much higher than it was and not quite as noticeable. This would correspond with the inprovement in hearing in the 3000htz and 6000htz ranges which improved.

I guess that something should be said about bunking research studies, even if they are 50 years old.

Are you listening Nelson? Maybe you should open you mind more . Might help you with your problems.

I am planning to take a 16 week reak and try again. I am also going to maintain a constant high level of Vit A weekly, like 25,000 iu minimum indefinately.

I must say that the lessons I have learned with juice has helped me to improve yet another part of my life.

Iam happy to help any other of you older bro's that might be suffering like I have been

 

[white boy]

have you looked into vinpocetine for your tinitus?