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Vertical Leap training thread

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/11-27-01/the_foundation.html

THE FOUNDATION
by Chris Korfist

"Always be careful of what you jump into." I am not referring to the warning that your mother says to you as you writhe in pain after having jumped into something. I am referring to everyone's "missing link" in athletic development—plyometrics, or to others, shock training. As I read forums, talk to coaches and athletes this seemingly simple concept always comes up in conversation. If you are strong but you can't run good 40s or get good starts, there is of course an easy solution—start doing Plyometrics. If a team has speed and they don't look as though they should possess it, there is again an easy explanation—they have trained using Plyometrics. However, I think this easy solution is not so easy. In fact, I believe it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of training here in America.

I believe Plyometrics were introduced to the United States back in the 70s. Soviet sprinters were dominating the Olympic fields and U.S. coaches wanted to know why. So in the mid-1960s a bunch of U.S. coaches traveled to the USSR to observe their workouts with hope of finding the "missing link" in their training. One of the activities they observed was an athlete stepping off a box, hitting the ground and jumping up. This of course was the visual interpretation of Verkhoshansky's "shock training." And according to a story I believe I heard from Mel Siff, the Soviets thought they would have some fun with the Americans and convince them that their athletes do this exercise from a 10-foot height. The American coaches returned to the U.S. and started spreading the word about their new discovery. Of course, nobody pays any attention to the other aspects of their training and the tremendous base level training that was performed. Word spreads, Don Chu writes some books, and suddlenly American athletes in search of speed are dropping out of the sky everywhere and trying to rebound into a jump; most limp away with broken ankles or struggle to understand why they didn't achieve the same level of success as the great Soviet sprinter Valeri Borzov. If you talk to a Russian or a South African, they laugh and tell you this is the American way because we have taken a small part of a enormous Soviet training system and created a giant monster.

I think the first problem comes from general misunderstanding of where we borrowed the system. The USSR had a complicated system of developing athletes. They started when the athletes were young and placed the hopefuls in a multi-year program that built volume and technique over time. They were patient. So when their athletes were 18 years of age, they already had 6 years of solid training that was scientifically planned. Once these athletes reached a certain level, somewhere between the age of 18-20 depending on their strength deficit, they might have started shock training. All aspects of the depth jump, such has breath control and footwear are closely monitored. Rest periods ranged as high as 4 minutes between a single rep to 15 minutes between sets. There was a plan. The Soviets did not randomly open a book and declare, "Comrades, today, we will begin plyometrics, whether you need them or not!" To confuse things further, American coaches have simplified the original complex system to fit into American training programs.

The second problem comes from the American application of the training. True plyometrics or shock training is the simple box jump. Time needs to be spent learning the step off the box. It is a relaxed fall and not a jump off the box. The focus of training is on quality and not quantity. In America, more is always better, so instead of doing 20 good jumps every 5-14 days depending on the cycle, an excited coach may do 100 jumps every other day. This is a sure recipe for injury. Also, if the research says that they are good and can make you faster, why not make every athlete in the program do them, even though they can't squat properly or broad jump without falling. Again, athletes need to be prepared to do these exercises in order for them to be effective.

So, am I advocating the abolition of plyometrics from your athletic training? Of course not—we utilize a precise and delicate solution to get the results we do. It depends on the program, the athletes and the coach. If you have a well-planned multi-year, multi-cycle program, I would recommend them at the end of your program; for example, at the end of the pre-competition phase in their Junior and senior year. If you have a multi-year program and your athletes have mastered various Olympic lifts and have a strong torso, then your athletes will probably benefit from the exercises. And if you are a coach that is willing to take the time to teach proper jumping form and have the patience to go through a proper workout, then I would recommend plyometrics. If you do not feel that you can address these issues in a positive manner, then stick to hopping and chain or band box squats but above and beyond all else, a long-term plan of attack will realize the results you yearn for.
 
INCREASING YOUR VERTICAL by JohnSmith182


Jump, Run, especially Jump not quite all correct info, hardcharger. the fact is, how much AAS will help your vertical is in large part determined by your strength deficit during a vertical jump, by this i mean the difference between the maximal force possible for you to exert isometrically in a jumping position, and the maximum amount of force you can exert at the speed of movement neccessary to actually execute a jump. steroids exert more influence on the muscular system than the neural system... so if your strength deficit is large, then the added weight of extra muscle will likely give you little or no extra jumping ability!!!

now, having said that, no matter what your strength deficit in a jump is, drugs can help you jump higher, but it is even more important to train correctly for athletic events when useing drugs than when not using drugs. this is because when speed of movement is the property desired, you need to be specific because extra muscle added in areas where it is not needed will not help, it will slow you down and we all know that drugs help add muscle fast.

now the first thing you must analyze when training to jump, is whether you need more maximal strength or not. if you can squat 500lbs and have a 20inch vertical, i would suggest you do not. you have plenty of strength, you are just unable to use it when jumping. if you have a 200lb squat and skinny legs and can jump 30 inches, you are probably able to use a high percentage of your available strength during a jump. and therefore, more maximal strength will be of use to you.

now, no matter which catagory you fall into, you want to use the training enhancement effects of AAS to build as much jumping power as possible. this means training more for maximal strength if needed, and more for explosive power if needed. but in either case, you need to be specific. train with movements that allow quick conraction, dont heavily involve the anaerobic energy systems, and mimik the jumping motion.

squats are the cornerstone of most programs... of course you want to use heavier weight if you need to build maximal strength and lighter weight done more explosively if you dont. but either way, squat. plyos... these DO NOT burn a lot of calories done correctly. they are hard on the system... they primarily work by enhancing the stretch reflex, and dont need to be done all the time.
two weeks every couple of months is sufficient. bounding and agility drills... these should be done every day. all types of hopping, one leg hopping, bounding, etc. these are like low intensity plyos, and exert a positive influence on both the muscular and neural system.

when i train volleyball players to jump higher, i use a 8-10 week cycle, where basic strength is emphasised first... since most young female volleybell players dont have a surplus of it, and we use a couple of weeks of sets of 5 in the squat done 3 times a week with light weight just for conditioning... during this time we also do a lot of low intensity drills such as two legg jumps over hurdles... basically the first two weeks we are conditioning the body for wha twill come.

weeks 3 through 5 are the primary strength weeks, squats 3 times a week for multiple sets of 2 or 3 reps. during this time we increase the intensity of the drills, going from two leg jumps and hops to one leg jumps and hops, and adding in frog jumps, but i keep the volume really low on this to allow for strength gain from the squats.

weeks 6 and 7 are the high intensity plyo weeks, we do depth jumps primarily, jumping off a box onto the floor with an immediete rebound and jump. we do quite a bit of this and all other training is reduced to minimal levels.
we squat once each week for low intensity, just to maintain conditioning.

weeks 8 and 9 and 10 are taper weeks, the plyos are real hard and require rest to recover from. we include a few sessions of low intensity squatting, and some low intensity drills of two legged hopping. we do just enough squats and drills to maintain strength and conditioning, were not really pushing very hard at all these weeks.
at the end of week 10 we test for improvements and then do it all again, as long as there is time in the off season. as you can see, increasing vertical is more complicated than upping your squat, at least if you are already at a high level or if you want the biggest bang for your buck.

you need to increase strength, teach your body to apply it at high speed, increase the strength of the stretch reflex, and then allow your body to rest from the difficult training needed to accomplish all these things. throughout all this, you need to maintain strength and conditioning even while concentrating on only one specific quality, or while resting. if you dont do this you will NOT be as successfull in subsequent cycles.

through coaching many camps for several different types of athletes, at all levels, i have maintained an average increase in vertical of a bit over 6 inches the first time through my program, which is usually 10 weeks. i do not think this is equalled by any others in my field. i think even Vermiel who is the strength coach for the chicago bulls only gets a 3 or 4 inch increase on average in the camps he runs, so i know my approach works. i wont take the credit for it, as i largely copied it from Mr Verkoshansky, who used it with much success in the 70's and 80's in Eastern Europe. the main difference between the method i use and the method others use today is that i work harder on each individual quality needed for jumping, but i seperate them into blocks, making the work on each specific quality short and intense. most others work each quality concurently for the whole program, working everything less intensly but for a longer time.
 
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Im pretty good friends with Josh Henkin. He is a good strength coach. I just got done with my latest article about olympic lifting and my main target was the vertical leap.

http://67.85.14.142:27015/Articles/coleman/olympic.html

Olympic Lifting- Kc

It saddens me that these great movements do not hardly exist anymore in training programs of us Westerners. For those who are using the Olympic lifts still have a clear cut advantage over those who are not using these great lifts to improve performance. How many times you walk into a gym and you see somebody snatching or clean and jerking a barbell? Not often ,if ever.

Many people are dragged into fearing these lifts because of the words of few. Over time these lifts have been credited as being the most dangerous methods. What people don’t understand is exercises don’t injure people, people injure people. It’s the worthless and uneducated acts of the lifter that results into the injuries. There is a very small set of exceptions. It has been documented of the safety of Olympic lifting in several studies. One study has shown that Olympic Lifting has the lowest amount of injuries per 100hrs trained then that of both bodybuilding and power lifting(1). If you knew anything about the sport of Olympic lifting you should know of the numerous hrs they are trained day in and day out. The Bulgarian’s train 4-6hrs a day in the gym working Olympic lifts for 6 days a wk.(2). The Chinese are in the same boat like those of the Bulgarian lifts. Its easy to see that in the Eastern countries how much more the athlete’s practice the Olympic lifting over that of bodybuilding, so one can not conclude that the reason there are more injuries in bodybuilding then Olympic lifting is of the simple fact that its trained more often, which is not the case. Traditional bodybuilding methods can be very hazardous to athlete’s in speed and strength sports such as American Football or Footie (Soccer). The reason for this is in Olympic lifts there is a much greater ROM which exposes the connective tissues and soft tissues to various angels and degrees of resistance which helps them adapt to this. In bodybuilding you do not have the extra ROM so you cannot apply and expose the connective tissues and soft tissues to the controlled state of movement to where they are not used to be going. This can be dangerous and can lead to injuries on the on the field.

If you look at the best Athletes in the Olympic Games 90% of them will have one thing in common, even if it ranges from the pole volter to the shot putter, is that they will all have some form of Olympic weightlifting in their program. Even if that ranges from the traditional power clean to the much more complex snatch. These athlete’s understand the importance and benefits of these movements and the carry over to their sport. Olympic lifts train the athlete to explode and use force forcefully. They develop a great amount of Rate of Force (RF) which is a very key point in sports training. Olympic lifters train the FT muscle fibers which are your explosive fibers which are key which greatly develop RF. It has been show that the portion and percentage of FT fiber’s directly contribute to the vertical jump(3), which has been shown to be the best indicator for athletic ability in American football athlete’s(4). The jumping and running abilities of these men where documented in the Mexico City Olympic Games where they out ran and out jumped the jumpers and sprinters in the vertical and 25m sprint! This is an amazing feat considering these men do not train specificly for jumping or running. Here is an a list of jumping feats from Olympic weightlifters done in combine test from Chad Ikei's "Pulling to Jump Higher" article:

"Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42" vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbred on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39" @ a height of 6'1" and 105 kg (231 lbs). I've even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5'2" but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as "Sexual Chocolate" on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6'3" tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and dead lift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6'3" doesn't sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that's impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Super heavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5'9" tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42" high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg).” (can do a sanding back flip and dunk a basketball)


There are also many other great benefits of Olympic lifts that help with athlete’s. They develop great amounts of flexibility which is a key factor in sports. They teach an athlete to undergo different movements to study them and master them which can ultimately carry over to their everyday life. They have also been used for helping recover athlete’s from older injuries. In a study done by Stone, Wilson, Blessing and Rozenek (5) had athlete’s Olympic lift for 8 straight wks. In this study they found that the athlete’s decreased resting heart rate by 8%, decreased systolic blood pressure by 4%, their lean body weight increased by 4% and their bodyfat dropped by 6%!

It is a very sad thing that there is only around 1500 competing Olympic lifters in America today. If I could I would change that but there is very little one man can do but to open up people’s minds and help them realize the benefits of certain things. Many one such day we will walk into a gym and we will not see dumbbells or bench press machines, but we will see men on platforms moving the great amount of weight from the ground to above their head like it was nothing. Hopefully I have shown you the benefits of the lifts and cleared out some of the negative factors they people argue about with the movements.


• (1)Source: Brian P. Hamill, "Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training," _Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, Vol. 8, No. 1(1994): 53-57
• (2)Zatsisorsky, VM “Science and Practice of Strength Training” Human Kinetics, 1995
• (3)Bosco C & Komi (1979b) Mechanical characteristics and fiber composition of human leg extensor muscles Eur Jo Appl Pysicol 41:275-284
• (4)Sawyer D, Ostarello J, Suess E, Dempsey M. (2002). Relationship Between Football Playing Ability and Selected Performance Measures. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: 16(4), pp. 611 - 616.
• (5)Stone, M.H., et al. Cardiovascular Responses to Short-Term Olympic Style Weight-Training in Young Men. Can. J. Appl. Sport Sci. 8(3): 134-9.
 
more stuff :)

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/article_fab15.htm


THE FABULOUS 15
“Top 15 Exercises for Higher Vertical Jumps”
by Joe DeFranco, Owner, Performance Enhancement Specialist
DeFranco’s Training Systems

(The following article is an excerpt from Joe’s best-selling training manual,
“The Vertical Jump – Advanced Speed & Strength Methods”.)

You now hopefully realize that there is a lot more to the vertical jump then you originally thought. This should also help you to understand that there’s a lot more to the training then you maybe originally thought. It’s not just about wearing some funny-looking shoes that claim to work magic on your vertical jump. There is definitely a science to this type of training. There is also a reason and purpose why every single exercise in this section was chosen. It’s now time for the fun stuff! After learning and understanding the following 15 exercises, it will soon be time to go to our favorite place in the world. . . The Gym!

In this section we will give you our Fab 15 list of the exercises we’ve found give the best “bang for your buck” with regards to improving your vertical jump. Remember that there are many exercises out there that will work, but in the training economy you want to pick the exercises that will give you the greatest results in the least amount of time. This list of exercises accomplishes that goal. These are the main exercises we have used to get our athletes to jump high… in minimal time! An added benefit of this list of exercises is that you’ll notice your sprint times will also improve. Any time you train to improve your vertical, you’ll notice you also get faster. Not a bad side effect, is it?

Anyway, let’s check out the Fab 15! (They are in no particular order.)

#1) Box Squats with bands – We love box squats in that we feel they teach the athlete to “sit back” while squatting, which further recruits the all-important hamstrings. Your hamstrings must be super-powerful if you want to run fast or jump high. We also like the fact that we can set the depth of the squat without any error. This prevents cheating, especially when athletes start to fatigue and the squats tend to get higher and higher. We squat anywhere from 6” off of the floor to 1” above parallel, depending on our goal. We also like the fact that box squatting builds “static overcome by dynamic strength”. This type of strength is important in many athletic movements (sprinter coming out of the blocks, lineman coming off of the ball in football, etc.).

Some say box squats are dangerous. That is complete crap! Box squats done incorrectly are dangerous. We’ve never had an athlete get injured box squatting. Open your mind and learn how to do them the right way! It will pay huge dividends. To learn how to box squat correctly, go to Dave Tate’s website at www.eliteFTS.com. He has numerous articles written on how to box squat correctly and does a great job of teaching it.

One of the main reasons we chose the bands for box squatting is their ability to accelerate the eccentric portion of the lift. You see, the athlete’s we train that have the best verticals are also the one’s who descend the fastest during their jumps. Newton’s 3rd Law states that “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”. What this means is that the faster an athlete can descend, the faster he will explode upward and the higher he will jump. The bands train this often-overlooked component of the vertical jump.

We also like the fact that as the athlete approaches the top of the squat the bands stretch out, thus increasing the tension. This teaches the athlete to accelerate through the entire rep. Basically, as the athlete’s leverage increases, so does the tension of the bands. In order to complete the rep, the athlete must apply more force at the top then he would if there were no bands attached to the bar. After this type of training an athlete will be much more likely to explode downward, make a quick reversal, and then accelerate upward rapidly during his jumps. Put all of these qualities together and you have a huge vertical. We usually perform multiple sets of low-rep box squats, focusing on speed (on the way down as well as on the way up). We like our advanced athletes to be able to perform 2 reps in less than 2 seconds.

#2 Static Hip Flexor Stretch – In general, we’re not big fans of static stretching, especially before performing explosive activities. This stretch is a major exception. Try this. Perform a vertical jump and record the height. Then, static stretch your hip flexors – 2 sets of 30 seconds each leg. Really stretch the sh** out of them! Stretch as if you’re trying to tear that hip flexor off the bone, baby! Don’t just go through the motions! Now jump again. Chances are you’ll jump ½” – 2” higher, just by static stretching the hip flexors. Why is this, you say? We’ll tell you. You see, most athletes have super-tight hip flexors. When you jump, tight hip flexors cause a lot of friction, preventing you from fully extending at the hip, as well as reaching as high as you can. By static stretching them immediately before you jump, you not only stretch them out, but also “put them to sleep” do to the long, slow stretch. This causes less friction at the hip when you jump. This results in higher jumps. You will be amazed at how well this works. (By the way, the hip flexors are the only muscles you would ever want to static stretch before jumping.) It is also a good idea for athletes to get in the habit of stretching their hip flexors everyday, not just before jumping. This will help to increase your stride length when you run, as well as prevent hamstring pulls and low-back pain.

Any hip-flexor stretch will do but we will describe the one we use the most. Get in a lunge position with your left knee on the ground and your right foot as far forward as possible. Drive your hips as far forward as you can, while keeping your chest up. Try to get your left thigh 45 degrees to the floor. Raise your left hand as high as you can and twist slightly to your right, looking over your right shoulder and reaching over your head. You should feel a stretch in the left hip flexor as well as your abs. Perform 2 sets of 30 seconds and then switch sides.

#3) 50-Rep “Rhythm” Squats – This is a little-known exercise we usually bust out about 3 weeks before one of our athlete’s would be getting tested in the vertical. You would always start your workout with this exercise and you will only perform one all-out work set after a good warm-up. Try to go as heavy as possible for your one set. A good goal is 90 - 100% of what your max full squat is. Basically, you will perform 50 quarter-squats as fast as possible. Due the first 10 reps exploding onto your toes, then on reps 11-20 keep your heels down on the way up, then, explode onto your toes again while performing reps 21-30, keep your heels down for reps 31-40 and then finish the final 10 reps by exploding onto your toes again. It helps to have a partner count out loud so you can perform all 50 reps as fast as possible without breaking momentum. This is a great exercise for athletes with a poor elastic component. It is also a bitch!

WARNING: You may not be able to feel your legs when you’re done. TOUGH SH*T! Do them anyway! They work.

Note: You can also do this exercise with bands attached to the bar. This will help in the same way we explained with the box squats (by accelerating the eccentric portion of the lift). The bands also help in this exercise because they hold the bar down on your neck. Anyone who has done this exercise knows one of the drawbacks is that the bar has a tendency to bounce up and down on your neck once you get the “rhythm” of the set going. The downward pull of the bands helps to prevent the slightly uncomfortable feeling of a heavy barbell exploding up and down on your cervical spine!

#4 Snatch Grip Deadlifts – This exercise is basically a regular deadlift, yet you use a “snatch” grip. By taking this wider grip, you must get deeper “in the hole” when lowering the weight to the floor, thus further recruiting the posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes and low back). Snatch grip deads are ungodly in their ability to strengthen the posterior chain and is a great foundation exercise to be used when training for the vertical. This exercise will put slabs of muscle on your glutes, hamstrings, spinal erectors, forearms and upper back. The only problem with this exercise is it makes sitting on the toilet very challenging the day after performing it.

#5) Depth Jumps – A depth jump or shock jump is performed by stepping off a box and then exploding upward immediately upon landing on the ground. We use boxes of varying heights, depending on the level of athlete we’re training. By stepping off a box, the muscles are rapidly stretched upon landing, which enables them to contract harder and faster when exploding upward (similar to what we were talking about with the box squats and the bands). The goal of this exercise is to spend the least amount of time on the ground as possible. We like to use .15 seconds as a guide. If the athlete spends any longer on the ground, it is no longer a true plyometric exercise because the amortization phase is too long. If performed properly, we have found this exercise to be very effective. The problem is that most athletes and coaches that perform this exercise don’t follow these rules. If an athlete crumbles like a deck of cards upon hitting the ground and then takes 5 minutes to jump back into the air; the box is either too high or the athlete isn’t advanced enough to be performing the exercise.

We usually start with a 6” box and work up to a 24” box with our more advanced athletes. Again, don’t get too crazy with the height of the box. Time and time again we hear of some super athlete who does depth jumps off of the roof of his house or some other BS. We’re not impressed. Remember that choosing a box that is too high can end up defeating the point of the exercise by increasing ground contact time.

#6) Reverse Hyperextensions – The reverse hyperextension machine was made popular in this country by powerlifting guru Louie Simmons of Westside Barbell in Columbus, Ohio. He has a patent on the original reverse hyper model. This is the one we have at our facility and it’s probably the most frequently used machine in our gym. Why is this, you ask? Because the friggin’ thing works! We don’t know of any other machine that works pure hip extension in such a synchronized manner – hitting the hamstrings, glutes, and spinal erectors all during the course of one rep. It also works as traction for the low back during the lowering of the weight. The bottom line is that if you want to run fast and jump high, then you should have one of these in your gym. We can’t say enough about this machine. All of our athletes use it – no matter what their sport, age, or training goal. It can be ordered through Elite Fitness Systems at www.eliteFTS.com.

#7) Dumbell Swings – This is one of those “old school” exercises you don’t see too often anymore. To perform this exercise, first grab a dumbell with both of your hands (use a hand over hand grip or interlock your fingers of both hands). Set your feet as if you were about to perform a squat, while holding the dumbell in front of you. Squat down and let the dumbell drop between your legs. Keep your back arched as you descend down and look straight ahead. Once you reach the full squat position, immediately explode up by extending at the hips, while simultaneously flexing at the shoulders and raising the dumbell above your head. Keep your elbows straight. This exercise “kills 2 birds with 1 stone” as it works pure hip extension as well as your front delts in a synchronized, explosive manner. This is exactly what happens when you perform a vertical jump. You can perform this exercise with a box under each foot for added range of motion.
Note: As you swing the dumbell upward, DO NOT leave go of it! Throwing the dumbell forward would not be a bad exercise, but we think it may piss the owner of your gym off.

#8) Bulgarian Split Squats – This is basically a single leg squat, with the non-working leg elevated on a bench behind you. Perform this exercise by holding a dumbell in each hand, descend until the back knee touches the floor and then explode back up to the start position. This exercise will crush the glutes and VMO (the quadriceps muscle on the inside of your knee) of the front leg, while stretching the hip flexor of the back leg. Remember what we said about the importance of flexible hip flexors with regards to your jumping ability? Well, this exercise makes our “Fab 15” list of exercises due to the fact it promotes strength AND flexibility in the specific muscles used in jumping. Also, because it is a unilateral movement, it helps to correct muscular imbalances that may exist in the athlete’s legs.

#9 “Pogo Jump” Warm-up – This is a warm-up we use before many of our lower body strength workouts, plyo workouts and speed workouts. It is not only a great warm- up, but we believe this “warm-up” may actually increase your vertical jump in and of itself! But first, let us describe exactly what a pogo jump is, anyway. A pogo jump is performed by jumping off of the ground by just springing off your ankles. While you’re in the air you want to dorsiflex your ankles, a.k.a. “pull your toes up”. You also must prevent your heels from ever touching the ground. The key to this exercise lies in your ability to keep your knees locked while jumping and landing on and off the ground, as well as spending the least amount of time on the ground as possible. Be sure not to flex at the hips, either. Many times when athletes perform this exercise their feet kick uncontrollably out in front of themselves. Don’t let this happen! Your whole body should remain in a perfectly straight line, with the exception of your ankles dorsiflexing while you’re in the air. We do both low and high pogo jumps in our warm-up. The technique remains exactly the same except for the height differences, of course. Low pogo jumps should be performed for speed. You only want to jump about 1” – 2” off the ground, but try to perform as many reps as possible in the required time. The goal of the high pogo jumps is to get as much height as possible by just springing off of your ankles during each jump. Pogo jumps are an incredible exercise that trains the Achilles tendon for elasticity. This will help to prevent ankle injuries as well as increase explosiveness. Here’s the warm-up we use…
A. Low Pogo Jumps – 3 sets of 20 seconds, rest 30 seconds between each set
B. High Pogo Jumps – 3 sets of 20 seconds, rest 30 seconds between each set

10) Trap Bar Deadlifts, off a 4” box – Trap bars are diamond-shaped bars that allow you to perform deadlifts and shrugs by standing inside the bar, as opposed to having the bar in front of you. This puts less stress on the low back/spine. Many athletes feel much more comfortable using these bars as opposed to straight bars while deadlifting. Because of this, we feel that they are a great tool for all athletes - young and old. We have gotten many athletes who swore they would never deadlift again, to start deadlifting because of the trap bar. One thing we like to due is have our athletes trap bar deadlift while standing on a 4” box. Once again, by increasing the range of motion, the hamstrings are further activated. This will greatly help your running and jumping ability. You can use various box heights, yet we’ve found 4 inches to be great for increasing the range of motion while not causing a breakdown in the athlete’s form.

11) Standing Backward Medicine Ball Throw – This exercise is similar in nature to the dumbell swing, but by using a medicine ball you can actually release the object you’re holding, thus producing more explosive power. (This is because you don’t have to worry about decelerating the weight.) To perform this exercise, hold a med ball in front of you, bend forward, and then toss it up and over your head, behind you, to a partner. This is another exercise that links the lower and upper body in a synchronized, explosive manner. This is vertical jump specific.
Don’t use a med ball that’s so heavy you can barely get it over your head. But don’t use something that’s so light you toss it into another zip code, either. Use common sense, huh. Our athletes usually use med balls they can toss anywhere from 10 – 20 yards. Once all of your throws start going beyond 20 yards, you’re ready to graduate to a heavier ball.

12) Power Clean/Power Snatch – We like the Olympic lifts in that we feel they teach the athlete to maximally “turn on” the higher threshold (type IIB) motor units. This is due to the fact that you cannot perform a max power clean or power snatch slowly. If you move too slow you will miss the lift. We do feel there is somewhat of a learning curve involved in being explosive and if an athlete never learned to “turn on” maximally, they would be much less likely to do so during their vertical jump – or any other athletic movement. Besides being explosive by nature, both of these exercises require a strong posterior chain (which you should now be sick of hearing about), with the power snatch involving the entire extensor chain. You should now know this is one of the major requirements for an exercise to make our Fab15 list.

13) Weighted Ab Work – Your “core” (abs & low back) is the link from your lower to upper body. It is also responsible for the transference of force from your lower to upper body. Basically, your arms and legs can be strong as hell but if you have a marshmallow in the middle you will never completely benefit from your limb strength. The vertical jump is one of the ultimate examples of this. So don’t sell yourself short by only training your arms and legs. Hit the abs hard, too. This doesn’t mean 3 sets of 10 cruches at the end of you’re workout, either. We like weighted crunches on a Swiss ball, standing rotational work using high and low cables and medicine ball training. Remember that your abs just may be the missing “link” to that big jump!

14) Push Jerk – This is another great exercise that has been highly correlated with the vertical jump. When doing push jerks, we have our athletes place their feet about hip-width apart. We have them start with the bar resting on the front of their shoulders, with their hands OPEN. By starting with the hands open, they will be more likely to initiate the movement with their legs. Start the movement by dipping down and then explode up onto your toes, while pushing the bar overhead. Finally, bend the knees, bring your heels down and hold the bar overhead for a second. Lower the bar and then repeat the movement. This is another great example of an exercise in which the power is initiated by the lower body and then finished off with the upper body. Once again, this is vertical jump specific.

15) Vertical Jumps – No, this is not a misprint. One of the best ways to improve your vertical jump is to practice vertical jumping! We have had many athletes come to us with great strength, speed and flexibility, yet they had horrible verticals. This is because their jumping technique stunk! We have made as much as a 3” improvement in just minutes of working with some athletes, not by showing them how to cheat, but by correcting their form. Hopefully, after reading through this manual, you will know what proper form is. Then, once you have the form down and start working on the recommended exercises, you will possess eye-popping jumping ability!
 
Well one of the guys that wrote that is linked to EliteFTS - he answers the Q&A section in the sports specific area :)

He and DeFranco have a few books selling through the site as well - the 40yard dash, vertical jump and another one.

He used to work at the Parissi Speed school as well, preping football players for combines etc.

take a look at the training pics here

http://www.defrancostraining.com/pics/pics.htm


Yeah Spatts you have the strength base to jump high, but unless you practise jumping a lot, it probably won't be that great :)
 
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yeah, you could stand next to a wall, mark your maximum standing reach, then get some chalk on your hand and do a jump with as much dip and arm movement as you want, and mark the highest you can touch (supposedly the 3rd jump is usually highest?). Then measure the distance. I think that's how it works.
 
I'm with PH... not only am I a 7'+ high jumper... but my vertical leap is considerable.

The training for it isn't rocket science... quite simple...

C-ditty
 
From Joe Defranco - see above for exercise descriptions

A: I usually don’t design programs for just anyone who asks. Designing a specialized program takes a lot of time and effort and I usually charge big bucks for them. Although I don’t have the time to design you a vertical jump program, I don’t want to leave you hangin’, either. I did speak with Conrad the other day and he seemed like a good kid. I could also tell by our conversation that he was very dedicated to basketball. What I’m going to do for you guys is post the sample 6-week program that I designed for the Vertical Jump book that I co-wrote. I’d tell you to just go and buy the book, but I don’t know where the proceeds of the book are going anymore. Below you will find a sample 6-week program that will improve your vertical jump. For descriptions of the exercises, refer to my article in the “articles” section of this site entitled, “The Fab 15 – Top 15 Exercises for Higher Vertical Jumps.”

By the way, check out the picture of John Iannuzzi doing single leg squats in the “training pics” section of this site. John is the same age as you and Conrad. He is a high school senior basketball player here in New Jersey. He performed the exact 6-week program shown below. Last week I tested his vertical jump. He jumped 37”! If that doesn’t inspire you, nothing will. This kid can jump so high that soon he’ll be grabbing the rim with his teeth!

Good luck.

SAMPLE 6-WEEK TRAINING PROGRAM
Some athletes are strong. Others are fast. The best athletes are both strong and fast. When designing programs to increase athlete’s verticals, we’ve found that training for both speed (rate of force development) and maximal strength, simultaneously, gets the best results. If you only train for increased strength, without ever paying attention to how fast you’re moving the weight, you may get very strong, but not necessarily faster or more explosive. This is why, in general, powerlifters can’t jump as high as Olympic weightlifters. Too many powerlifters train using heavy weights, which move slowly, all year long. Instead of always trying to lift more than their friends do, powerlifters should spend some time trying to lift faster than their friends. The bottom line is if no speed work is done, you will end up with a strong, slow athlete. On the other hand, if you only train for speed and never increase your maximal strength, you will not have enough of a strength base to develop explosive power. So what the hell is an athlete to do, you say? We will tell you one more time. Train for both maximal strength and speed simultaneously in your training cycle! The following program is designed so that on Monday your main exercise is designed to increase your max strength. Heavy weights will be used and the weights will move slowly. On Thursday, your main lift will be dynamic in nature. Speed is king on Thursday. Basically, the goal is to lift heavier on Monday and faster on Thursday.

We did not include any sample upper body workouts in this program, but we recommend you lift upper body 2 times during the week while on this program. You can either split your upper body in half and lift on Tuesday(chest & back) and Friday(shoulders, tris, bis). Or just do a full upper body workout two times during the week. Whatever you choose, remember to stick to the basics and keep your workouts short and intense. After your warm-up, don’t let these upper body workouts go longer than 45-50 minutes. Remember that we’re going to the gym to make progress, not friends. You don’t want to fry yourself out for the Monday and Thursday workouts. Stick with incline benches, chins, shoulder presses, etc. If you follow this program for the full 6-weeks, you will be amazed at the progress you will make. Who knows, you may even become a member of “The Mile High Club”. (Not that Mile High Club, stupid!)

Enough talk, let’s get to work!

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WEEKS 1 & 2
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Monday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch

B. Trap Bar Deadlift off 4” box – Warm-up to 4 sets of 5 reps, increasing weight each set, rest 3 minutes between work sets.

C. Bulgarian Split Squats – 3 sets of 8 reps each leg, rest 30 seconds between each leg and 2 minutes between each set.

D. Reverse Hyperextensions – 4 sets of 10 reps, rest 1 minute between sets

E. Weighted Swiss ball crunches – (use either a rope attached to the low cable or a dumbell held on your chest for resistance) 4 sets of 10 reps, rest 1 minute between sets.


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Thursday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch

B. Box Squats with bands – Warm-up to 8 sets of 2 reps, resting 30 seconds between sets
*Use maximal band tension with less bar weight.
*Use a box that is parallel or 1” above parallel.
*Have someone time your sets. The goal is to perform the 2 reps in 2 seconds or less. Don’t raise the weight until you’re able to perform all 8 sets in under 2 seconds. Remember that speed is king on Thursday’s! Adjust the weight accordingly.

C. Dumbell Swings off boxes – 3 sets of 8 reps, rest 2 minutes between sets

D. Reverse Hyperextensions – 3 sets of 10 reps, rest 1 minute between sets

E. Rotational Ab Work, using hi & low cables – hi to low woodchoppers – 3 X 10 reps each side, low to high – 3 X 10 reps each side, rest 30 seconds between sets

Return to Top

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WEEKS 3 & 4
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Monday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch

B. Snatch Grip Deadlifts – Warm-up to 4 sets of 4 reps, increasing the weight each set, rest 3 minutes between work sets.

C. Bulgarian Split Squats – 3 sets of 6 reps, rest 30 seconds between each leg and 2 minutes between sets

D. Reverse Hyperextensions – 4 sets of 8 reps, rest 1 minute between sets

E. Weighted Swiss ball crunches – (use either a rope attached to the low cable or a dumbell held on your chest for resistance) 4 sets of 10 reps, rest 1 minute between sets.


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Thursday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch

B. Box Squats with bands – Warm-up to 8 sets of 2 reps, resting 30 seconds between sets.
*Perform this exercise in the same manner you did during weeks 1 & 2. The only difference is during weeks 3 & 4 you will use slightly less band tension, but increase the barbell weight slightly.

C. Dumbell Swings off boxes – 4 sets of 6, rest 2 minutes between sets

D. Standing Backward Medicine ball throw – Perform 2 sets of 5 throws, rest 1-2 minutes after the first 5 throws.

E. Rotational Ab work, using hi & low cables – hi to low woodchoppers, 3 X 10 reps each side – low to hi, 3 X 10 reps each side, rest 30 seconds between sets.

Return to Top

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WEEKS 5 & 6
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Monday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch

B. Depth Jumps – 4 sets of 3 reps, rest 1 minute between each set of 3 jumps.

C. Power Snatch or Power Clean – Warm-up to 4 sets of 3 reps, increasing weight on each work set. Rest 3 minutes between work sets.

D. Reverse Hyperextensions – 4 sets of 6 reps, rest 1 minute between sets.

E. Weighted Swiss ball crunches – (use either a rope attached to a low cable or hold a dumbell on your chest for resistance) 4 sets of 8 reps, rest 1 minute between sets.


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Thursday

A. Warm-up – Pogo Jump warm-up then static hip flexor stretch.

B. 50-rep Rhythm Squats, with light band tension – Warm-up to 1 max set of 50 reps!

C. Box Squats with bands – Warm-up to 6 sets of 2 reps, resting 30 seconds between sets. Perform this exercise in the same manner as you have been, but decrease the band tension slightly from what you were using the last 2 weeks and increase the barbell weight. The goal is still to perform all sets in 2 seconds or less!

D. Push Jerks – Warm-up to 4 max sets. 1st set = 5 reps, 2nd set = 4 reps, 3rd set = 3 reps, 4th set = 2 reps. Rest 3 minutes between work sets.

E. Medicine ball ab circuit – toe touches X 20 reps, russian twists X 20 reps, crunches X 20 reps – Perform this “circuit” 3 times. Rest 20 seconds between circuits.

* Test your vertical jump 3 – 5 days after this workout after week six.
 
quoting msyelf :)

Get stronger, teach your body to apply this strength with speed, boost the stretch reflex and improve skill.

1) main sport exercises with added resistance - jumping with weighted vest

2) Assistance exercises
A - maximal strength - ie squats, deadlifts etc
B - Rate of force developement - olys, speed squats etc
C - DynamicStrength - light jumpsquats, weighted plyos
D - Stretch shortening cycle - plyos, depth jumps, power jerks etc

Plus eccentric strength from drop jumps or altitude jumps.
You can't generate force if you can't absorb it :)
 
Hey CCJ, would you mind posting your height, weight, and vertical jump? I was just curious.
 
height - 5'9"
weight - currently around 208-210lbs, but was mostly 190lbs before :)
VJ - ?
Who knows, it was around the mid 30s before, but I've gotten heavier and it is actually slightly lower now. 20lbs extra don't help much :D
But I hope to start sprinting soon and lean up.
 
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interesting I am going to start doing those....maybe not at 38 inches

I 100 percent agree with the mental aspect they mention when doing big box jumps...I posted before about it being a way to train your body to do what you want when you tell it to, you either make it or you don't and if you hesitate or back off you will always fail. It is impossible to do a box jump while thinking about anything else besides exploding. The stretch reflex is trained and improved mentally just as much as physically.
 
Back in high school through research i developed my own vertical leaping program. I used jumpsoles (yes they actually work) but tweaked my workouts to go around practice time. I also combined this with a day of heavy weight training for legs. My results were gains of 6-8 inches after 6 weeks. I continued this cycle on and off, going light on the weight training during the season. the jumpsoles website, www.jumpusa.com, has a program called the phi slamma jamma program, i used parts of this, combined with heavier weight training, but still focusing on explosive movements (i.e, doing 135lbs squats for 35 reps is a waste of time, i would do 275 for 12, exploding up after each one, also, this weight seems heavier after doing the plyo training, A LOT heavier.)

Basically, plyo excercises mondays, wednesdays, fridays (in season only one or two days a week) and weight training for legs on mondays and fridays (only once a week during the season.)

Sample: Mondays, plyo skips, bounds, jump rope, box jumps, squat jumps, rim jumps
Weights: 3x12 squats, hack squats (focusing on explosive movements, even, using lighter weight, rise up on ur toes and flex calves on squats, since this duplicates the jumping motion.) 3x12 hamstring curls, 3x12 calve raises and donkey calve raises. Keep the intensity level high, only taking short rests in between sets.

The plyo exercises focus on the same amount of reps or distances, but increase in sets as the weeks go on. Some can be very stressful on your legs, and if done too often, lead to burn out of ur muscles. Box jumping should be stopped at least 3 days before competition. let me know and i can give u a more detailed plan. LIke i said, i put on 8 inches in my vert, and an additional 3, giving me a 36 inch vertical leap at my highest (sr year of high school.)
 
quoting myself :)

In a nutshell

Get stronger, teach your body to apply this strength with speed, boost the stretch reflex and improve skill.

1) main sport exercises with added resistance - jumping with weighted vest

2) Assistance exercises
A - maximal strength - ie squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, core etc
B - Rate of force developement - olys, speed squats, med ball overhead throw jumps, pushpresses and jerks etc
C - DynamicStrength - light jumpsquats, weighted plyos, medball overhead throw jumps
D - Stretch shortening cycle - plyos, depth jumps, alttitude drops, power jerks, medball again etc

Eccentric strength as well -> depth jumps, alttitude drops
 
I did air alert 2 over the summer when i was 14, along with alot of basketball and my vert literally went up 8-10 inches. Dunking the basketball at 14 not bad for a white boy...
 
Dr Squat vertical jump before deadlift attempt :)

drsquatverticaljump.jpg
 
From Dr Squat himself -

It seems that few have ever been shown how to do a vertical jump correctly. I'll try to explain it...
You Olympic lifters will understand fully.

Most people VJ by bending their knees and exploding upward. WRONG! You are giving up at least 4 inches that way! Instead, bend at the waist, with your butt going back a bit. Your knees are still straight (but not locked). Then, "flick" your knees by bending them and exploding upward, similar to the double knee bend in a clean or a snatch. At this point you bodyweight is shifting from the middle of your foot to the balls of your feet. This should all be accomplished in a synchronous, fluid movement...not jerky, but smooth.

OK, now go try it a few times until you master the technique.
 
A post from Supertraining list

Dear group,

While reading subsequent posts about vertical jumping strategies I have to
say:
1. Vertical jump training is misunderstood.
2. Plyometrics are misunderstood.

There also seems to be some confusion about "training for weaknesses".
Everyone here (I hope) is familiar with the teachings of dave tate & louie,
who preach about the benefits of focusing your training on correcting
weaknesses. I am completely in this camp.

The problem is - when it comes to vertical jump - what are your weaknesses?
How do you measure them and how do you correct them?

In my own training & while helpig others I use a few simple tests which give
a good idea of this:

1. A normal (counter-movement) vertical jump. Things to look for :
a. depth of knee bend
b. speed of reversal from eccentric-concentric
c. time to completion
d. position of hips/posture on takeoff (should be straight as a
pole, perpendicular to the ground)
e. position of arms on takeoff - (should be parallel to the ground
at takeoff and then move up)

2. A static hold vj - this should be a 4 second static hold with the same
angle at the knee that they used on the normal vj's - you start at say
90degrees, hold for 4 seconds (min) and jump with NO counter-movement.
a. Do they perform a counter-movement (this shows they lack
strength/coordination at that position and are relying on their plyo
capability)
b. Height differential between normal and static (if the static is
very close or above (>95%) of the counter-movement jump, this means that
subsequent training should focus on plyo capability. If it is less than this
strength training is important. There are no strict numbers though.
c. position of hips/body
d. arm poosition
e. time taken

Of course, VJ is not really important -- as the most important thing is the
actual biomechanics from the sport. This should be analysed correctly.

There is also the same type of testing completed with squats ( both knees
forward (high bar) and hips back), deads & good mornings with up to 3rm and
60% 1rm weights going for speed.

Doing this testing you can see most of the motor qualities that are needed
(and deficient) in the athlete.

The secret to the training as you would expect is to continually test and
re-evaluate the training methods. It is an iterative system:
e.g. an athlete comes in the 70% sj/jj. We do weights & stop all
plyos. The athlete re-tests and is 98% sj/vj. We concentrate on plyos until
next testing... Etc etc etc.

In the software world, this is a subset of a methodology called "agile
development" which in a nutshell is basically a continual
test-evaluate-improve cycle.

There are probably errors in this, so don't hound me :) , its Monday morning
and im buggered.
Any questions?

Joe Cole
Dunedin, new zealand
 
Q&A by DBHammer


I'm a 19 yr. old basketball player and am tired of being mediocre and getting slow results. I've only been lifting a year and have been following the typical programs. Olympic lifts, squats, deadlifts, presses, chins, dips, glute-ham raises, the usual stuff. Then I read one of your articles on elitefts. I've read all of the info I could find (articles, innosport, ST list, message boards) and like your approach. The results speak for themselves. I don't have any money, but work really hard and want to see results. I was hoping you could set me on the right path.

My goals are:
1. Increase vertical leap
2. Increase size (Currently 165, would like to be 195), speed, and power

My basketball skills are fine, but my athleticism is not at the level I want. It's not horrible, but it's not great and I'm sick of it. My base strength levels aren't that great right now. Full squat about bodyweight, deadlift over 1.5 bodyweight. Not sure about vertical but it's over 24" (can grab the rim with 2 hands with one step).

I figure I still need to work on NDE conditioning but don't know how or what else to work on.

Looking forward to your advice.

----

Slow down, take a deep breath, and relax....you've come to the right place!

With your goals in mind, I would have to assess your reactive ability, for starters. One way to do this is to use a reactive jump pad which incorporates switches to measure how long it takes for you to go from contact to contact(toe off to landing), in time, then converts this to a readout that is expressed in height. This simple unit, which is very inexpensive if you build it yourself, and relatively inexpensive if you buy one from a distributor, gives you the tool you need to perform this test.

What you will do is perform a down and up vertical jump on the mat. Then, you will gradually work up in drop height, into a reactive jump, and measure the according reactive height achieval as you go. For example:

90cm down and up

50cm drop/92 cm reactive jump(RJ)

65cm drop/ 95 cm RJ

80 cm drop/ 97 cm RJ

95 cm drop/ 99 cm RJ

105 cm drop/ 98 cm RJ

100 cm drop/ 96 cm RJ

Thus, your greatest RJ height was attained at a 95cm drop(99cm RJ)- for this example. With this test, there are a few phenomenon that will result:

(1) Your down and up vertical will be greater than your RJ ability.

(2) Your down and up vertical will be less than your RJ ability

(3) Your down and up vertical will be equal to your RJ ability.

Now, if your situation is #1 then you need to incorporate my neuro-rate and neuro-magnitude methodics immediately. (note: this is the general need...without diving too deep into the matter)

But, if your situation is likened to #2 then you need to take a closer look (even generally speaking):

(a) Your RJ ability will spike early and then decay late(i.e. best RJ at nil cm drop all the way to 90cm+ drop without a gain or loss).

(b) Your RJ ability will rise in relation to the drop-height you impose on the system(your body).

If your situation is a then you need to introduce more neuro-magnitude work, including EMS.

If your situation is b then you need to concentrate more on the supportive elements of neuro-duration, neuro-rate, as well as an-2 work.

Relating back to the general test, if your down and up vertical equals your RJ ability(#3) then you need to take a "lop-sided" approach(note: this situation poses the greatest potential for immediate gains, of which will quickly lead into a situation b type circumstance. For some this will mean concentration of neuro-mag and neuro-duration. For others this will mean concentration of neuro-mag and neuro-rate. The determinent is to recognize at what point your RJ ability decayed. Was it above or below your VJ height? The more significant your RJ ability maintained the peak above a height equal to your VJ height the more neuro-duration work should be employed in your lop-sided approach. The opposite is also true; the lower your RJ peak is attained in relation to a drop height equal to your VJ height proves an escalating need for neuro-rate and neuro-mag work.

All right, buddy, only so much time can be spent on one question. Hopefully this gives a little bit of a nudge in the right direction. A more detailed exploration, specifically a case by case examination, can be addressed in any one of our consultation packages.

-------------------
some terms to help you guys :)


Neuro-Duration - basicly strength work

Neuro-Magnitude - basicly power/explosiness and reactivity, think speed squats, depth jumps etc,

Neuro-Rate - rapid fire automatic cyclic movements, ie sprints, squatjumps
 
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d-dub said:
that pic of Kelly is insane - anyone know what his VJ was to start with?
Click to expand...

I've talked with him before, and still do from time to time. He was actually started as a weak slowish kind of guy. I know he full squats around 400lbs for a 1RM

from one of his emails

Actually it was a multi-year process and my goal really wasn't ever to increase my vertical jump like that, it just seemed to happen. I guess I translate added strength into speed-strength very efficiently. When I first began training my vertical was in the 30 inch or so range. I started doing lots of cardio work for the first year and after a year or so of this my vertical was down in the 20 inch range. When I finally got serious about the weight training squats and deadlifts and such in particular my vertical just shot up like a cannon into the mid 30's range. About 3 years ago when I started combining the o-lifts and such i got all the way to the 40-45 inch mark. I never have really gotten really massive and always increase strength at a disproportionately higher rate than muscle mass so really that's no surprise. I still maintain around a 38-40 inch vertical without any specialized training for it other than the o-lifts. I'd love to do plyos as well but due to injuries i can't handle too much of them.
Click to expand...

In any case he knows a lot about VJ stuff, in all facets. He seems to be good at training other people. His book will be worth getting, unlike all the junk out there :)
And he knows a lot about strength training too.

Some more from him

From what I can see you have enough strength in your hips what seems to be limiting is what you produce at toe off with the plantar flexors.
If you go to this link here there is a video of pro timing day and there is at least one guy doing a VJ on there. I think it's Nathan Vasher...but if you look at what happens just as he leaves the ground you'll kindve see what you want to shoot for. You should get an extra boost just as you leave the ground as you extend through the balls of your feet...on your video you get quite high considering I don't really see you doing this so that tells me you have quite a bit more potential.....

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/releases/2003_04/009/032404_21.html

It's also fairly hard to tell because you're wearing black shoes. This is something you gotta practice though...I was fortunate that when I was 15 years old I was at a BarBQ at a friend of mines house and there was this middle aged black guy there drinking in the backyard with all the adults..me and my friend were shooting some hoops like we always do and this guy saw us and came over there and started shooting around with us. He was maybe 5'8 and he got the ball and proceeded to dunk every way you could think of....i was mesmerized because he could do this even after drinking half the day. I asked him what his secret was and he said he grew up with Spud Webb in Dallas, TX. He said him and Spudd used to emphasize driving through their toes to jump....he told me the secret was what you do just as you extend to leave the ground...get off on your toes. Well anyway, for the next month all I did was practice driving through the balls of my feet and it worked. It took some practice and I spent so much time emphasizing it that I pretty much took on a posture and gait that would emphasize that portion of the movement. To this day I still tend to always stay on the balls of my feet even when I walk but that was one of the keys taking me from a 23 to a 42 inch vertical leap. It enabled me to transfer what I eventually built down low (hip, hamstring and quad strength through squats and deadlifts etc.) into the force expressed at toe-off. Now this guy was no scientist and obviously theres more to it then that...for one you need sufficient hip and quad strength and need to have a strong countermovement to build up into....but that little extra emphasis at toe-off is the icing on the cake often a pretty thick icing. Dylan has that - he comes off the ground quick and explosive and really uses his plantar flexors. Now he needs to get what you have...the strength in the hips and quads so that he can have more to build up into if that makes sense.
Click to expand...
 
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Interview with kelly Bagget that is related to this thread :)

Baggett of Tricks Part II:
An Interview with Kelly Baggett
By Eric Cressey


In Part I, Kelly and I discussed his unique background, the importance of perspective, and common mistakes performance enhancement specialists make. We began to touch on the topic of testing athletes, so let's pick up where we left off.

EC: With optimal testing frequency down, let's cover the tests themselves. Which tests are good? Which ones are outdated?

KB: Any test that gets an athlete injured is obviously no good. For this reason there are times (e.g. inexperienced athlete) when it can be counterproductive to perform certain tests like low-rep squats, bench presses, etc. Any test can be improved with practice and I really like tests that don't require much if any practice. Now, for specific tests I really don't like the 225 max reps test for obvious reasons. There is also too much emphasis on a 40-yard dash. I like the test itself but don't like how coaches give so many points based on a player's "40." Agility tests are useful but they can also be improved dramatically with practice and are pre-rehearsed, so they aren't always accurate. Statistical data shows the only test the NFL uses that has much reliable correlation to playing ability is the vertical jump test. Interestingly, it would also seem to be the least "football specific" of all these tests. I'm also all for certain postural tests, length-tension assessments, and the like because these will go a long way in eliminating injuries, optimizing movement efficiency, and helping everything run smoother from the ground up.

EC : New tests that you have to introduce? I know you and I are both are big proponents of the vertical jump vs. counter movement jump comparison. Any others?

KB: When it comes to using tests to determine training focus, the vertical jump with and without counter movement is useful to determine strength functions. As an extension of the one you mentioned, try this: sit back on a chair in a ¼ squat and jump up and then compare this to your regular down-and-up jump. If the difference is less than 10%, it indicates that you rely on more pure muscular explosive strength and need plyometric/reactive work. If the difference is greater than 30%, it indicates you need more muscular/explosive strength because you rely largely on the reflexive/plyometric effect. This test is okay, but I still prefer a reactive jump test. The chair version will often give false results because people simply aren't used to jumping from a pure standstill. If I was only able to use one test to indicate ones optimal training focus, strengths, and weaknesses, I'd use the reactive jump test because it tells so much. Not only are the results important in terms of jumping, but they can also be carried over to sprinting, agility, and multiple sports movements. I ran across it in some writings by Schmidbleicher and am surprised that it hasn?t been used more. I've been using it for a year and a half now, and it is very effective; DB Hammer is a true master of testing and finding athletes' weaknesses and he also uses a version of this test but with a specialized reactive jump pad that measures the amortization phase. It's a nice addition, but most aren't going to have access to it and it's not really necessary anyway. The test enables you to gradually increase plyometric contribution and see how the body responds.

EC: For our readers who aren't familiar with the VJ vs. CMJ test, how about tossing out a brief outline?

KB: No problem. Generally, when reactive ability is good, the amount of energy that you put out in a movement will be directly proportional to the energy you take in. So, if you absorb more force, you develop more force. What you do on the reactive jump test is measure how much force you take in and compare this to how much power you put out. First, measure a regular down-and-up jump. Then, you use boxes and starting from around 12-inches perform a depth jump. Step off the box, jump as high as possible when you hit the ground and measure the height you jump. If it's less than your regular VJ, you can stop there because it's obvious you are lacking in reactive ability. Your ability to absorb negative force and transfer it into positive power is lacking. You'll want to start using reactive and power training immediately; altitude landings would also be good for training your system to better absorb force. Once you become proficient, you then just follow the altitude landings up with reactive jumps.

Now, if your 12-inch reactive jump was better than your VJ, you keep increasing the height of the box in 6-inch increments until you find where your reactive jump drops below your vertical jump. The greater the height of the box when you reach that point, the greater the reactive ability. For some, there will be a gradual increase with each increase in box height. They may find their best jump comes off a 30 -inch box or better. These people are very plyometrically efficient so they need to emphasize muscular strength and hypertrophy to create more resources they can draw from in a plyometric movement - and nearly all sports movements are plyometric dominant. The test also will establish the optimal height of the box one should use for depth jumps; simply use the box that gives you the best reactive jump height.

EC: This test also underscores the importance of postural assessments and seeking connections between different tests. If someone has dysfunction at the subtalar joint, it won't matter if they have potential for excellent plyometric abilities at the plantarflexors, knee extensors, and hip extensors. If they're excessively pronating, they'll cushion the shock too well, spending a lot of time on the ground because they can't switch over to supination, which provides a firm base for propulsion. They'll probably wind up with plantar fasciitis, an ACL tear, patellofemoral dysfunction, hip or lower back pain, or sacroiliac dysfunction. You can do power and explosive training until you're blue in the face, but unless you correct the underlying problem with orthotics or specific stretching and strengthening interventions, the exercises to make an athlete proficient will really only make them deficient: injured. Likewise, if someone has excessive supination, they'll be fine with the propulsion aspect, but won't be able to cushion landings well at all. These individuals will wind up with lots of lateral ankle sprains, iliotibial band friction syndrome, pain deep to the kneecap, or problems in the lower back and hip. They're easily spotted, as they don't get immediate knee flexion when upon landing. Again, corrective initiatives have to precede corrective initiatives! Just my little aside; I couldn't keep my mouth shut for this entire interview! Where were we? Oh yeah - any more tests?

KB: Let's see...another test that I like to use is the speed rep test; this can easily be implemented for the squat and bench press. You want to be able to explosively and quickly move a load that is fairly close to your limit strength so that you stay to the left on the force/time curve. Instead of basing your explosive training off of percentages you base it on the time it takes you to complete your reps. You simply try to get one rep for every second. You can go two reps in two seconds, three reps in three seconds, or five reps in five seconds. The percentages will vary among athletes, but I like to see bench press numbers up around 65-70%, achieving five reps in five seconds. The squat should be up around 55-60%. The higher the percentage weight you use to achieve this relative to your 1RM, the faster you are and the more of your max strength you'll be able to use in a short sports movement. The converse is also true; the lower the percentage relative to your 1RM, the slower you are. You want to gradually push up your max numbers while maintaining or improving the % of your maximum you can move quickly. If you're up around 70% for bench press, it's time to focus more on pure strength. If you're down around 50%, you need more speed. I should also note that it's not absolutely necessary to know your 1RMs for these tests. Very simply, the more you increase the weight you can use for this one rep per second explosive training protocol, the more explosive you will be in your sport.

EC: Good stuff. I know you've got some excellent points on 1RMs; care to enlighten our readers?

KB: Sure. For 1RMs, one thing I've picked up from Buchenholz is to look at the time it takes to complete the lift instead of just analyzing the weight lifted. There is a reason why so many people are divided on whether a maximal squat will transfer to added speed or power. It's because the time it takes you to complete a maximal squat is much more relevant to sport transfer; those who achieve their 1RMs with great speed tend to have greater carryover of pure strength into sport than those who lift slower. Watch the guys who naturally lift a max load fast and compare their athletic abilities to those who lift slowly and you'll see what I mean.

To give you an idea, Fred Hatfield completed his former world record 1014 lb. squat from start to finish in under 3 seconds! That's what you call being explosive with a high percentage of your limit strength. I'm not saying that the squat is the best activity to directly transfer to a jump, but it's no wonder that he (at one time) had a vertical jump around 40 inches without any specific training for it! A guy who can complete a true 1RM bench or squat in around four seconds or less from start to finish will often be able to train with more heavy strength training and hypertrophy work and get a good sport carryover. A guy who takes seven seconds or more to complete a 1RM attempt is too slow when applying his maximal strength to get much carryover. Even though he may be very strong, it doesn't matter - nearly all sports movements are quick. He'll need to back off on the heavy stuff and work on rate of force development (RFD) and reactive ability so that he can use a given percentage of his absolute force capabilities quicker. The test to which I just alluded is also useful because it will automatically encourage athletes psychologically to explode more in any of their lifts because they'll realize how important rep speed is. You just have to be careful people aren't going to try to go too fast, increasing the likelihood of injury.

EC: Any norms for these tests? What do you typically find?

KB: What is interesting about this is that the majority of genetically gifted professional and upper level collegiate athletes are going to fit into the first - naturally more explosive - group. In other words, basic heavy training will work for them - which is what most programs are focused on. What about the guys who are in the other group, though? What if they have to be thrown in on the same program with all the other guys? Unfortunately, they probably won't make optimal progress on the same plan. They need something designed to optimize their attributes and overcome their deficiencies. This is what I meant when I said that we'll see better athletes in all sports as the body of knowledge on training increases. Instead of arguing about basic heavy weights vs. Olympic lifts etc., more strength coaches will understand what the best plan is for any given individual or group and train them accordingly. Toss preconceived notions and prejudices out the window and let the athlete be your guide.

EC: Optimize attributes and overcome deficiencies? Ubiquitous intelligent strength coaches? You're a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, aren't you Kelly? I mean, honestly, no arguments in the field of strength and conditioning? I can't decide if it would be a good thing because it'll quiet down all the HIT Jedis, or a bad thing because it means we won't be able to torture on them any more. While I search for answers, feel free to tell the Rugged audience about any other tests you use.

KB: When it comes to speed and finding the right training focus, it's useful is to look at split times. During the start of a sprint - especially for the first 20-30 yards - relative body strength is key. After the initial acceleration period, reactivity becomes dominant, so it's important to find where in the race the athlete is weak. Someone who has a strong start but weak finish is likely strong, but is trying to muscle his sprinting stride. His hips may drop and he'll be unable to run smoothly, allowing his hips and hamstrings to contract reflexively. It could be that his heavy training is getting in the way of relaxation and messing up his reflexive ability. For example, if someone has a 1.4 second 10 yard-dash, but only a 4.9 40, it's pretty obvious that he's explosive and strong. However, when reactive ability takes over, he suffers. He needs more speed work - either through flying runs, longer sprints, or quick action plyometric drills - where relaxation and reflexive action is key. If a guy is fast over the second half of a timed split but has a slow start and acceleration, he just needs to emphasize basic relative strength and explosiveness.

EC: As a kinesiology and biomechanics dork, I have to ask: how about actual movement analysis?

KB: Instead of evaluating posterior chain strength in the weight room and flexibility with static stretches, just watch how an athlete runs and moves. Is he getting triple extension of the ankles, knees, and hips with each stride, or is he chopping his stride short? This can indicate weak hamstrings or a flexibility or postural issue. Often, there is also a poor correlation between posterior chain strength demonstrated in the weight room and function of the posterior chain during a sprint, so you have to look at function instead of just numbers. If the function isn?t there but the strength is, you?ll need to cut back on the weight work and focus more on things closely related to the specific activity.

EC: Let's talk about the future of sports training. What do you think are the biggest issues on this front, and what can we expect to see in the years to come?

KB: I think that the controversy over manufacturing athletes vs. letting nature do all the work will become even more of an issue than it already is. It's obvious that the US is falling behind and it's readily evident by the number of what one could call naturally physically inferior European NBA players in the NBA now. It's getting to a point where the athletes born with the ability aren't the only ones who succeed, although that's pretty much the way it's always been.

EC: You gotta' love the Larry Birds of the world; they do a great job of throwing wrenches in the model for the perfect athlete on paper. That's not to say that we can't make every athlete better with proper training, though.

KB: I agree; with improved training methods, you'll see a lot more athletes with inferior physiques and skills (at least initially) make it to the top. The level of training will rise up so that someone who is born without any great physical abilities will be able to improve his abilities above and beyond someone who is born with them but doesn't work at it.

Now, we have all these sports performance centers popping up across the US. I feel that's a good thing but they, of course, require money. The people who are able to take advantage of places like these will be well ahead of the guys who just have a school program. This will become even more apparent in the coming years, especially as the people running these places get even better at their jobs. I think Shaq said it best a few years ago; he may have been joking, but I don't know. When asked how he saw the NBA in ten years, he responded, "They'll be a bunch of white guys who can run and dunk as well as shoot!" We'll just have to wait and see?

EC: Definitely. Okay, time for a little change of pace. We've focused on performance-based training exclusively thus far, but I know you have some insights regarding how to effecting positive changes in body composition and even bodybuilding-oriented training and nutrition tactics. The floor is yours...

KB: Bodybuilders and those interested in physique enhancement need to learn how to better work from the inside out rather than the outside in. Hormones are always going to be at least, if not more important than external initiatives with exercise and diet when it comes to determining what happens with our body composition (muscle gain and fat loss). Any male will put on a good 40 lbs of muscle without doing anything when he goes through puberty. The reverse will also gradually occur with age; that's just how powerful the hormonal effect is. True, we can influence our hormonal state and internal chemistry by what we do, but people interested in the best gains of their life need to learn exactly what is going on inside them and how to best influence everything through diet and exercise to mimic as close as possible that natural hormonal growth surge. In other words, they must learn to optimize their internal chemistry so that fat will melt off or muscle will go on in slabs.

Contributors from science and real world-based information sources like Rugged, Avant Labs, and a couple of others are really advancing what we know about physical change related internal chemistry: how hormones affect us, what we can do to change certain signals, etc. Up until now, the only approach was to do a few things right and hope everything fell into place. Simply stated: eat like a horse and train heavy, or starve and eat a low calorie diet to lose fat - or load yourself up on steroids and a host of other drugs. Those approaches definitely work and will always work, but I feel they're getting outdated.

For example, when it comes to fat loss and stress, leptin has been touted as the major controller of all things related to bodyfat and bodyfat setpoint over the past few years. I believe that the function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis and the stress response is as important, if not more important than leptin. The HPA axis and related central controls will largely dictate partitioning of nutrients, thyroid levels, androgen levels, and overall anabolism/catabolism. We know about too much stress and its effects on cortisol, but it's important to remember that having a lowered response to stress can be just as problematic as having too much. There's no doubt in my mind that methods to more optimally manipulate all these central controls will become very popular in the next couple of years

EC: It speaks volumes for knowing something about everything. It's not enough to be a strength coach that only understands training; you have to be up-to-date on nutrition, endocrinology, anatomy, biomechanics, rehabilitation, supplementation, motivation, equipment, and how they all are interrelated. There aren't many coaches out there that are that good, but you're definitely one of them, Kelly. Thanks for your time.

KB: No problem; thanks for having me!
 
He also told me he could dunk from a standing start under the rim with 2 hands!
That's damn impressive for 5'9"!!!

That's my goal :)
 
I have found that vertical leap and squats have little to do with each other.

Here's an experiment. Tie your hands to your waist and try to do a vertical leap. Now free your hand and attempt again. You will find that you cannot jump for shit with arms tied ot attached to your sides. Jumping is about momentum. I know one person who played on my BBall team. The skinniest guy who never workout , but could tear the roof off a gym with a 360 double pump. The worst thing about it is that he wasn't even 6' tall.

Things we did
1. jump boxes
2. heavy jump rope
3. suicides
4. sprint quarters

The key to jumping is the arm swing! It's all technique
 
not everyone can run the 100m under 10secs, not everyone can jump over 40inches,
but yet people who bump up their squat the right way can run faster and jump higher, that is all :)

Ever see an elite thrower or olylifter just jump without even having to take a step? They can cover some ground and the throwers all tend to be over 230lbs. Because they can generate force without the need for momentuem. That comes from pure strength and Rate of force development

I can actually jump pretty high with no arm swing, because I have the strength to do so.
Imagine if that guy did have strength the go with his reactivity, he'd jump even higher! Some people are just born with the right genes, for the rest of us it takes a more intelligent approach

Plus being strong helps in other areas too - without stronger legs, your going to be able to use higher drops for alttitude drops or depth jumps without getting hurt
 
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on a similar note, are there any good shoes for increasing vert? I have some pretty comfy adidas basketball/cross training shoes, but something tells me that soft comfortable feeling is meaning Im losing a lot of force when I jump. CoolColJ???
 
Just wear something comfortable!

Spend the money on some nice shoes for squatting and doing depth jumps instead :)

I just don't think the 1-2 inches you may get, if any at all would make much of a difference in the scheme of things. But the company will get rich though...

there is no substitue for hard intelligent training :D
 
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The fact is, wearing confortable shoes is not what you really want. When you are trying to jump as high as possible, these kind of shoes will loose up the force and you will jump lower.
 
ccj, i had a question regarding bodyfat and vertical jump. I weigh about 186 lbs with about 15%bf. My running vertical is 31 inches. Now, if I lost 5%bf without losing any power, what kind of increase in vj can i expect?
 
Lazar said:
ccj, i had a question regarding bodyfat and vertical jump. I weigh about 186 lbs with about 15%bf. My running vertical is 31 inches. Now, if I lost 5%bf without losing any power, what kind of increase in vj can i expect?
Click to expand...

VJ not as much, running jump much more.
hard to say, it's different for every person, because some people lose power as they get leaner due to muscle loss and changes in body mechanics etc

I know someone who lost 20lbs and only gained 4inches on the VJ, went from 220 to 200lbs

Whereas I have gained an inch for every 2-3lbs I have lost in the past. I know I lose 2inches of jump height for every 5lbs I add to my bodyweight

But the thing is, just because lighter doesn't mean you'll jump higher, if you can't move your bodyweight any faster than before.
 
Check out my new site about vertical training. I wrote 5 articles already in my forum, momentairely about biology actually rather than vertical jump training. But give it a try and see if the articles are ok ;). Sorry if you think I'm advertising but I need as much people's oppinion if I am doing fine or if I need to change anything.
 
Raptorel -

How the heck do we check out your site without any way of getting there? :)

CoolColJ -

Great training log. Being that vertical is my obsession, I'm like a pig in #### even if I already read a lot of these articles. I'm glad I finally found it. Thanks for taking the time.

Interesting how much hops you gain from losing weight. I have been thinking about cutting down (not that I'm remotely fat) lately in order to get a better power/weight ratio. If you think about how much lower you would jump if you were holding a 25 lb olympic plate in your hands, it makes you start to wonder about what a lighter, more powerful you could do :)

Re: springbak springsoles

Don't expect anything but a lighter wallet. And maybe 5 grams of placebo effect, but I've probably ruined that too by saying this. Do a real objective measurement and I doubt you'll find 1 extra cm. I didn't and believe me I thought they were working, until I took the time to actually test them. And I've tried 2 pairs just in case you think I'm being overly critical. They urge you to use a double jump test, which you're not used to and probably more susceptible to try to give a little extra effort for the springsoles than without vs. a real vertical jump where it's very obvious if you've gained anything or not. If these were truly giving people 3 inches on their jumps, the big boys and many college players would be willing to shell out 10-100x this much for them.

There's no magic vj pills boys.

Let's keep working.

-Erik
 
:Boomstick
CoolColJ said:
Bodyweight only execises only work on beginners and people who don't jump a lot or very hard. They didn't work for me, because I'm quite an advanced jumper already, and I jump very hard everytime, I already have the technique down. I just need the strength and power so weights is much better. You only have to look at how big and heavy Olympic Lifters are, and then look at their verticals of 36 to 43+ inches! And they don't even do plyometrics or any jump training.
Imagined if they did! They would be good for another 6+ inches or so.

Some guy on another board said the people he were training were all around 300lbs in bodyweight and they all increased their verticals 4-6 inches or so after 2 months of Cleans, Snatches and Squats.
Click to expand...


:Boomstick :Boomstick :spatts: :jarswim: :chainsaw: :clock: :garza: :magilicut
 
i recently got Kelly Bagget's VJ E-BIBLE and it is does indeed have everything you need to know about increasing your vertical leap. anyone interested in jumping higher should invest in this book. best thing is, you pay for it, then download it right onto your computer. no waiting for it to deliver or anything. also if you want to learn more about plyometrics there are 2 very good books that you can get as a set at amazon.com (jumping into plyometrics and high powered plyometrics)
both are very good books from a plyometric standpoint, and they give you tons of exersizes.
 
myfault said:
i recently got Kelly Bagget's VJ E-BIBLE and it is does indeed have everything you need to know about increasing your vertical leap. anyone interested in jumping higher should invest in this book. best thing is, you pay for it, then download it right onto your computer. no waiting for it to deliver or anything. also if you want to learn more about plyometrics there are 2 very good books that you can get as a set at amazon.com (jumping into plyometrics and high powered plyometrics)
both are very good books from a plyometric standpoint, and they give you tons of exersizes.
Click to expand...

coolcolj said:
I have read Kelly Bagget's vertical jump bible E-Book

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljump.html

Yeah the Advert looks a bit dodgy, but it's all very good stuff and legit, pretty much covers it all, well worth getting if you want to get up there one day :)

Like anything, if a person got his VJ up to 40+ inches with hard work, then he knows something - see pic at 5'9"

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj/Photos/kellybagget_dunk.jpg
Click to expand...

is this an e-book?? could i get a copy??
my email is [email protected] thanks..
 
coolcolj said:
Advert looks a bit dodgy, but it's all very good stuff and legit, pretty much covers it all, well worth getting if you want to get up there one day :)

Like anything, if a person got his VJ up to 40+ inches with hard work, then he knows something - see pic at 5'9"
Click to expand...

Any idea what his "baseline" VJ was? Just wondering since you say he did it w/ "hard work".
 
21 inches when he was younger in high school at 15 and 27inches when he was a sophomore after playing sports for a while I guess. Everyone will have different ceilings though, the limiting factor is the CNS, its firing speeds to be specifc. Even he said himself while he was skinny and weak, he had a good CNS.

Anyone can get stronger and more reactive to help their jumping, but remeber power = force x velocity. Speed is mostly genetic, so one half of the equation is fairly static, as detemined by genetics

ie not everyone who squats over double bodyweight with strong hammies and core will be able to jump over 40inches. Even with the proper training. But you will jump higher than when you were weaker, if you train properly

see here

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/quicknessvsspeed.html
 
Another thing, is there any vids of jump snatches anywhere on this thread? Couldnt find any, and I can't seem to visualize it correctly. thx
 
No but I guess some of my oly power snatch clips from the hang and floor are examples of jump power snatches :)

I can upload em later today
 
The thread has turned into a thread all about power lifting and not about endurance the other types of exercises that build jumping ability. It's kewl to be powerful , but if you can only do the feat once and your tank is empty , then it is worthless. There has also been little talk of body fat percentage. A good way of improving your jumping ability is simply losing bodyfat...

Plyometrics
http://www.ultimatehandbook.com/Webpages/Health/vertical.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_5634_increase-vertical-leap.html
http://www.fittech.com.au/products/kms.asp?loc=training
http://www.sacredhoops.com/plyometrics.html

Note the use of weighted vest and weighted jump rope jump rope...
 
Well before you can jump high, a lot, you need to be able to jump high first :)

You get your performance first, then you build work capacity later.
Building work capacity detracts from the building peak performance.
That's why NFL football players and throwers jump much higher than the average BBall player, while weighing more much more too. BBall players run around and play too much to allow themselves to develop their peak potential, except for the freaks here and there.

Again Kelly Baggett's site has all the info you need :)
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/pathofchampions.html

And once you can jump high like 42 inches, then jumping 40inches doesn't take as much effort, and you can do that a lot.
 
coolcolj said:
Well before you can jump high, a lot, you need to be able to jump high first :)

You get your performance first, then you build work capacity later.
Building work capacity detracts from the building peak performance.
That's why NFL football players and throwers jump much higher than the average BBall player, while weighing more much more too. BBall players run around and play too much to allow themselves to develop their peak potential, except for the freaks here and there.

Again Kelly Baggett's site has all the info you need :)
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/pathofchampions.html

And once you can jump high like 42 inches, then jumping 40inches doesn't take as much effort, and you can do that a lot.
Click to expand...

Being a basketball player. I would rather have on my team someone who can jump 30 inches 100 times then someone who can jump 40 inches once... This has also been missing in this thread. Endurance is a big factor in training.

Strength before endurance huh???
What sports do you play currently? Forget about that. That opinion will not get an athlete through 2 halfs or 4 quarters of a game. Any coach would bench you if your lagging ass and holding up the team. Does not matter what the sport is.

NFL players jump higher then the average Basketball player :-)
Let this stupidity end...
 
Well if he can jump 40inches, 30 inches will be very easy :)
A 10 sec sprinter will find running 11secs pretty easy, it's sub-maximal, that would be like warmup for him. Ditto for the 40inch VJ'er, 30inches will be a warmup.

It is unlikely someone will jump 30inches 100 times, if that is his max VJ, each jump will end up being lower, he may well jump 28-29inches 100 times, with a max of 30inches. But the 40inch jumper could do that and more, even 35inches 50 times :)

You can detune a formula one car to drive on the street for a few hours, but you can't make a Honda Civic accelerate or have the top speed of a formula one car.

Hell even NFL lineman weighing 280-300+lbs can VJ in the 30-36 inch area. Just look at any NFL combine numbers and you will see how high they get measured on a vertec without a step.
 
I would agree you need to build the power 1st then work on your ability to do it more times in a row. but if you are playing a sport it very unlikly that you are going to just jump over and over at your max VJ. usually you will have some time inbetween to rest and then more likley be able to repeat the max effert.
I am sure it would not bee complete rest, as you would still be running back and forth
but still rest. I am sure if you can jump 40inches you could run down the court and do it on the other end again. and could probably continue doing it more than say just trying to repeat the 40 in one after another..
 
coolcolj said:
Well if he can jump 40inches, 30 inches will be very easy :)
A 10 sec sprinter will find running 11secs pretty easy, it's sub-maximal, that would be like warmup for him. Ditto for the 40inch VJ'er, 30inches will be a warmup.

It is unlikely someone will jump 30inches 100 times, if that is his max VJ, each jump will end up being lower, he may well jump 28-29inches 100 times, with a max of 30inches. But the 40inch jumper could do that and more, even 35inches 50 times :)

You can detune a formula one car to drive on the street for a few hours, but you can't make a Honda Civic accelerate or have the top speed of a formula one car.

Hell even NFL lineman weighing 280-300+lbs can VJ in the 30-36 inch area. Just look at any NFL combine numbers and you will see how high they get measured on a vertec without a step.
Click to expand...


I'm sure that 30in will be easy for a 40in jumper , but if I run his ass for 30 minutes , then what is his vertical.. There are people who actually get stronger as the game progresses. Or atleast everyone else is withering at a much higher rate then them. This factor is what you are missing.

1. NFL lineman don't jump higher then 2's or 3's in NBA. Volleyball players may jump higher then these guys , but that may be it. I'll give you one point Jevon Kerse jumps high. Does he jump as high as Lebron James?
2. Does Jevon Kerse jump as high as Lebron James after running up and down a court for 30 minutes?

If humans were formula one cars then maybe you'd have a point. Humans are not cars so your point is mute.

Let those NFL combine guys workout for a few hours and retest them. Then lets see the numbers then because NBA guys jump and dunk over people all game long.
 
Extra_Strong said:
I would agree you need to build the power 1st then work on your ability to do it more times in a row. but if you are playing a sport it very unlikly that you are going to just jump over and over at your max VJ. usually you will have some time inbetween to rest and then more likley be able to repeat the max effert.
I am sure it would not bee complete rest, as you would still be running back and forth
but still rest. I am sure if you can jump 40inches you could run down the court and do it on the other end again. and could probably continue doing it more than say just trying to repeat the 40 in one after another..
Click to expand...


That's you.

As you build endurance , you will build strength as well. You don't build one and then the other like some 2 stage story or one doesn't work in conjuction with the other. In terms of team sports endurance is necessary if you are going to stay on the field/court. You cannot compete if you are winded. You cannot VJ if you are winded. Many professionals such as Allen Iverson play 48 minutes with no rest.. Too many assumptions here...

Alot of uneducated commentary
 
gjohnson5 said:
Many professionals such as Allen Iverson play 48 minutes with no rest.. Too many assumptions here...

Alot of uneducated commentary
Click to expand...

after 1st quarter, half time, after 3rd quarter, team time outs, free throws, ball goes out of bounds, fouls, injured players........

maybe its just me, but that sure does seem like a lot of rest.
 
gjohnson5 said:
As you build endurance , you will build strength as well. You don't build one and then the other like some 2 stage story or one doesn't work in conjuction with the other.
Click to expand...

Nah, the more endurance work you do, the slower & more inhibited any strength gains will be, that's a fact. So for optimal long term gains in both areas, you would concentrate on maximizing one for a while (ie: strength-which necessarily involves less endurance work), then switch it up and concentrate on the other (endurance, which necessarily involves less strength work.) It's called "periodization," and it does indeed involve a "2 stage story." So optimally, a Bballer (or boxer, or football player, etc.) would do heavy power work (oly's/plyo's, etc.) in the offseason to maximize power and explosiveness, and then worry about endurance (and incorporating his new power) when training camp rolls around, which is exactly what they do.
 
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KOArtist said:
Nah, the more endurance work you do, the slower & more inhibited any strength gains will be, that's a fact. So for optimal long term gains in both areas, you would concentrate on maximizing one for a while (ie: strength-which necessarily involves less endurance work), then switch it up and concentrate on the other (endurance, which necessarily involves less strength work.) It's called "periodization," and it does indeed involve a "2 stage story." So optimally, a Bballer (or boxer, or football player, etc.) would do heavy power work (oly's/plyo's, etc.) in the offseason to maximize power and explosiveness, and then worry about endurance (and incorporating his new power) when training camp rolls around, which is exactly what they do.
Click to expand...

In terms of powerlifting, of course. If you were made to sprint 10 quarters, yes you're gonna have a bad day in the weight room. In terms endurnace sports , I have never heard someone say running made thier legs weaker... Running never made my legs weaker , infact running is how I put on most of my leg mass, not squats.

Do you think on a 7 day schedule , doing endurance work 1 or 2 of those days is going to hinder your gains in the weightroom? I can tell you from experience that playing college ball we ran and did weights on a weekly and there were some strong guys in there. I was never all that strong back then so your theory may hold true for me, but that's not universally true. I went from an inner city high school that had no such facilities to a private liberal arts college who's main sport was BBall and we followed no such structure.

But anyway , This is the whole point of why I said this has turned into a powerlifting thread and nothing about jumping or better yet the sports uses of jumping.
 
Youve never heard of running making somebody's legs weaker? Squat for a 3 rep max today, see how you do. Then run a few miles a day for a month, and test your squat again. But yeah, I played D1 college football, and our strength/conditioning guys were always on us about not overdoing jogging/hoops/anything aerobic during the offseason since it would be detrimental to our strength/power development. Of course any athlete is gonna do some endurance work here and there, but thats a given (theyre "athletes" afterall), but the more they did, the less benefits they'd get from their strength training. 1 or 2 days would minimally/barely affect it, 3 or 4 days would definitely impact it negatively. It's a sliding scale basically...the more you do, the more it will affect it.

It's just like all the BBers here...they know that in the long-term, if they want the most mass and the least fat, they have to alternate their training/cycles towards bulking/cutting/bulking/cutting. If they tried to improve both at the same time, all the time, they would get WAY less results in the end in both mass building AND fatloss. Sure you try to minimize fat gain during bulk phases, and muscle loss during cutting phases, but that's obvious. Then they "balance" it out at the end and peak for their competition, which is kind of what athletes do when it's time for the season to begin: balance out their power w/ their endurance to be the best they can be for the season.
 
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KOArtist said:
Youve never heard of running making somebody's legs weaker? Squat for a 3 rep max today, see how you do. Then run a few miles a day for a month, and test your squat again. But yeah, I played D1 college football, and our strength/conditioning guys were always on us about not overdoing jogging/hoops/anything aerobic during the offseason since it would be detrimental to our strength/power development. Of course any athlete is gonna do some endurance work here and there, but thats a given (theyre "athletes" afterall), but the more they did, the less benefits they'd get from their strength training. 1 or 2 days would minimally/barely affect it, 3 or 4 days would definitely impact it negatively. It's a sliding scale basically...the more you do, the more it will affect it.

It's just like all the BBers here...they know that in the long-term, if they want the most mass and the least fat, they have to alternate their training/cycles towards bulking/cutting/bulking/cutting. If they tried to improve both at the same time, all the time, they would get WAY less results in the end in both mass building AND fatloss. Sure you try to minimize fat gain during bulk phases, and muscle loss during cutting phases, but that's obvious. Then they "balance" it out at the end and peak for their competition, which is kind of what athletes do when it's time for the season to begin: balance out their power w/ their endurance to be the best they can be for the season.
Click to expand...


OK , this is truely silly...
I have never squat and then ran several miles in the same day and I played 3 sports at one point and in track I did 200 , 400 , 100M high Hurdles , 100m relay and high jump. Everyone knows that if you squat and then try to run or run and then try to squat you will have worn out legs. I mean in a long term situation
 
gjohnson5 said:
That's you.

As you build endurance , you will build strength as well. You don't build one and then the other like some 2 stage story or one doesn't work in conjuction with the other. In terms of team sports endurance is necessary if you are going to stay on the field/court. You cannot compete if you are winded. You cannot VJ if you are winded. Many professionals such as Allen Iverson play 48 minutes with no rest.. Too many assumptions here...

Alot of uneducated commentary
Click to expand...

are you saying if i build endurance. that my max vj will increase?
I know if i want a 40 inch VJ i have to work tward getting that for one max jump. after i acomplish it then i would be able to work on being able to repeat in more time in a row.. 1st things 1st. You can increase you endurace with out increaseing you 1 time max..
A person can have a VJ of 40in and just because he increases his endurance does not mean he will increase his max VJ..
 
gjohnson5 said:
OK , this is truely silly...
I have never squat and then ran several miles in the same day and I played 3 sports at one point and in track I did 200 , 400 , 100M high Hurdles , 100m relay and high jump. Everyone knows that if you squat and then try to run or run and then try to squat you will have worn out legs. I mean in a long term situation
Click to expand...

You misread his post. He's not talking about a day, he's talking about a period.
 
Extra_Strong said:
are you saying if i build endurance. that my max vj will increase?
I know if i want a 40 inch VJ i have to work tward getting that for one max jump. after i acomplish it then i would be able to work on being able to repeat in more time in a row.. 1st things 1st. You can increase you endurace with out increaseing you 1 time max..
A person can have a VJ of 40in and just because he increases his endurance does not mean he will increase his max VJ..
Click to expand...

You can choose to believe that while being an armchair quarterback....
The truth is that NBA stars were dunking starting out in 8th and 9th grade... This may not be before they touched weights , but I guarantee you this is before they squatted 400lb's...

I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj
 
gjohnson5 said:
You can choose to believe that while being an armchair quarterback....
The truth is that NBA stars were dunking starting out in 8th and 9th grade... This may not be before they touched weights , but I guarantee you this is before they squatted 400lb's...

I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj
Click to expand...

because i have done that kind of training.. my VJ was 33 work hard for about 2 months all it did was make my able to jump over and over very high.
These NBA basket ball players the you are talking about had natural ability to jump. and could already do it.. We are talking about increaseing vertical jump. I do not understand really what you are saying.. are you against weight training?? or what? Are long distance runners the fastes in the 100m ? look at all there endurance.
have you read this whole thread? do you know what it is about?
I think coolcolj is right on and this is a very good thread..
The weight training is to aid in the week points in your vj apility.
the i idea is to find your week point an improve it and some weight trainning can aid in this and help build speed. oly lifters have the best vj they do not do endurace work.. plus most basket ball player are really tall..
 
gjohnson5 said:
OK , this is truely silly...
I have never squat and then ran several miles in the same day and I played 3 sports at one point and in track I did 200 , 400 , 100M high Hurdles , 100m relay and high jump. Everyone knows that if you squat and then try to run or run and then try to squat you will have worn out legs. I mean in a long term situation
Click to expand...

I MEANT in the long term situation, obviously, as I said to try running every day for a MONTH and then retest your squat.

The only thing silly is believing that endurance training will help your VJ, which must be what you believe ("I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj."

LOL, take "building endurance" to the extreme and what do you have? A bunch of slow-twitch marathon runner looking fools that can't jump for shit, although they may be able to repeat their 5 inch vert 1,000 times, lol.
 
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KOArtist said:
I MEANT in the long term situation, obviously, as I said to try running every day for a MONTH and then retest your squat.

The only thing silly is believing that endurance training will help your VJ, which must be what you believe ("I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj."

LOL, take "building endurance" to the extreme and what do you have? A bunch of slow-twitch marathon runner looking fools that can't jump for shit, although they may be able to repeat their 5 inch vert 1,000 times, lol.
Click to expand...

LMAO

i read somewhere that the averager vert of marathon runners is ~12 inches
 
I thought this was a very interesting post - that shows the stronger person has a higher vertical jump....

CMJ = counter movement jump (regular standing VJ)
Mio = vertical jump with a long pause
Jump pad numbers, so add 2-3 inches for regular stand and reach numbers.

team roster :)
http://www.usbasket.com/USAteam.asp?Team=6857
-------------------

Doctorron's VJ numbers of Dayton Jets IBL

This is a very initial study. Averages of 2 CMJ and 2 MIO jumps performed with 3 second holds 15 degrees above parallel. 20 players were measured with my jump pad. 12-15 players were DI. They range in age from 22-31. They have been practicing for 3 months and have played 4 games. We are 4-0 and scored 169 pts one game.
These are top notch players. Not NBA quality but very, very elite athletes based on skill and athleticism.
That is why some of these numbers surprised me. I want to take their numbers again after a 2 game road trip and 2 days rest to study their recovery. I will try and post their new numbers with minutes played over the weekend.
I didn't have time to do RA numbers but will soon. Names have not been provided to protect the innocent.

Height weight CMJ MIO
1. 6'10 235 22.5 19.5
2. 6'3" 195 30.6 28.3
3. 5'10" 175 28.7 26.0
4. 6'8" 225 23.0 22.8
5. 6'4" 245 28.9 27.4
6. 6'7" 175 28.0 27.4
7. 6'4" 190 28.7 24.0
8. 6'2" 180 32.0 27.9
9. 6'7" 262 21.8 21.8
10 6'2" 170 29.5 27.0
11. 6'3" 195 26.2 24.0
12. 6'1" 200 29.3 27.0
13. 6'4" 202 29.5 28.4
14. 6'6" 210 23.0 22.8
15. 6'4" 215 35.0 31.2
16. 6'7" 230 21.3 21.1
17. 6'2 1/2" 185 30.2 28.1
18. 6'8" 268 19.9 19.6
19. 6'1" 201 26.4 24.9

I am interested im observations reguarding reactive ability, height, weight etc.

Only 19 were tested, one was injured.


JackM
« Reply #2 on: May 6th, 2005, 1:17pm »

The jump pad measures the distance between the toes and the floor correct?? If so you'll need to add a few inches ot those measurements to come up with what you would get from a vertec. They still are pretty average though.


doctorron
« Reply #3 on: May 6th, 2005, 3:40pm »

I figured about 2" more on the vertec but haven't measured it yet. This may not surprise anyone, but the top 10 verts average much more playing time and production with 2 exceptions, and the bottom ten verts display much less athleticism and playing time with 3 exceptions.

Are you surprised by the lack of difference in MIO and CMJ in alot of these players. By far our highest vert on the jumpad 35" displays the most Reactive ability and with his efficient skills is the leader in on court production.


CoolColJ
« Reply #4 on: May 6th, 2005, 6:25pm »

I myself only had a 1.5 inch difference between my CMJ and Mio jump a few months back, but I think its better now. I know JackM commented on the fact I probbaly wasn't recruiting my hammies and plantar flexors as much, quad and glute dominant. ie less reactive.
I should restest on Sunday

But Yeah as far as the numbers go, I would think that the CNS speeds being such big part of what makes an athlete tick explosively and fluidity wise, it doesn't surprise me the best jumper there would be the best overall player, depending on his brain type that is.. Did you do any brain type tests or have the data?

Also noticed that the 2 best jumpers were also the most reactive. 4-5 inch difference betwen CMJ and MIO
ie using more of their resources effeciently
But yeah considering how BBall players do jump a lot it did suprise me a bit. I think the fact that BBall does utilise a lot of low intensity running, that would definitely erode the explosive capacities of some players.

I think the 2 best jumpers could jump even higher with some strength work, while the rest would need more reactive work and maybe technique and recruitment work.



Ant
« Reply #5 on: May 8th, 2005, 05:47am »

What kind of off court training are these guys doing at the moment doctorron?


« Reply #6 on: May 9th, 2005, 1:01pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
they went through 4 weeks of traditional strength training. I am part of the team medical staff and am assisting in their training. Once the season has started they are doing only basketball for the past 4-6 weeks. I am struggling for more control in the performance dept. I am doing EMS on a few of the players at the moment.

I was just surprised at the lack of reactive ability of most of the guys, even the ones who would have 30 plus inches on a vertec.

The 35 inch jump pad CMJ player has by far the most reactivity in his CNS and is the highest VJ tested. A lay person could see the spring and reactivity of this jump. It looks effortless and does not appear to be muscled in any way. Just based on these players, reactivity does not appear to be enhanced by just playing hoops.


Ant
« Reply #7 on: May 9th, 2005, 2:10pm »
What are the strength levels for these guys like? There obviously has to be a good strength base in order to build reactivity off of - can't build up to power absorption/production without the strength to take in the force.

CoolColJ
« Reply #8 on: May 9th, 2005, 5:52pm »

how high does the 35 inch jump pad CMJ player jump on the vertec?


doctorron
« Reply #9 on: Today at 11:03am »

Ant, Most of these gyys strength levels are average to poor. Weight training doesnt appear to have been a major part of half the teams training. Our 35 inch man has more than adequate strength levels.

CoolCoJ I would estimate his vertical on a vertec at 38 inches.

One other thing to note. These players are almost all incredibly reactive off of one foot. I am not sure if anyone cannot dunk off of one foot. But some of the guys in the 6'2", 26-29 vert range look like vince carter off of one foot. Some really impressive dunks


CoolColJ
« Reply #10 on: Today at 5:48pm »

See the stronger guy jumps the highest off a stand and 2 legs

DoctorRon, is the 35 inch CMJ guy good at both one and 2 leg jumps equally, standing and running?

All the others are relying on their natural born reactive ability to jump off one leg. Just like all those Slam Nation guys and just about 95% of all BBall players...
But then why are their CMJ jumps so close to their Mio jumps?
 
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don't need to do any weight training to jump high

just genetics and plyometrics to improve a little.

I'm sure Vince Carter and them spent a lot of time doing squats in HS ;)
 
And I would imagine that with the right genes, you're already flyijng high and then you through in just a little lower body resistance training (standard stuff) say in college and their body's again can take better advantage of this extra strength than a normie's could.

The irony is that guys with crazy genes probably see their incredible leaping ability as something they earned by working out really hard. In reality, if they saw what us mortals went through to jump inches less, they would realize just how easily they had it and I hope at least appreciate their natural universe given physical gifts.
 
Don't forget the one thing that really matters - actually jumping. I used to be able to stand flat footed under the rim (reg. height) and slam 2 handed at 6' tall and 125. All I did was play bball, lift weights and eat (in that order, ususally). Now at 225 I can just grap the rim. Part of the 'jump training' should include going outside on a bball court and just trying to grab the rim. If anyone went through bball in high school/college, jumping for about 30 minutes was part of the pre-season training.
I still play bball every Saturday - usually in 2 different cities for about 2 hours a shot. After all of the weight training over the last 4 years, I can just grab the rim, but no one, I mean no one can take the ball from me unless I want them to and no one moves me very easily. I can still shoot quite well, too.
 
Well that's just common sense isn't it? Jump to jump better.... :)
Off course you better make sure your jumping properly to begin with, and firing the muscles in the proper order and sequence etc etc

but that will only work for so long, maybe a few months. Then your gonna have to make your body put out more force, and use more intense methods to create more gains

And a jump isn't always a jump. You can have 2 people jumping the same height, but one may get up into the air much quicker, no prizes for guessing what that means in sports. How you train and what you do can make a big difference here
 
Hey CCJ, I was wondering, do you ever combine your "divebomber" squats w/ a jump at the top? Or is that just asking for an injury?
 
I have in the past, but that's not the point in doing em anyway

the loads will be fairly heavy and so the speed will be slow, which won't help an unloaded jump that much. Plus you ahve to land and absorb the forces! Not everyone is strong enough to do that...

jumpsquats should not use more than 10-15% of bodyweight if you want transfer to an unloaded jump

heavier loads can help olys though
 
So youre saying you go lighter for the jumpsquats and then heavier weights for the "divebomber" squats, right?
 
Yes

have a look in my training log from about 2 weeks ago I did such a workout. complexing a set of drop squats with 115lbs and jumpsquats with 25lbs, with a video of em as well :)

The drop/reactive squats should use around 50-55% of your 1RM+85% bodyweight for speed and VJ goals. If it's a negative value, get stronger first :)
 
KOArtist said:
I MEANT in the long term situation, obviously, as I said to try running every day for a MONTH and then retest your squat.

The only thing silly is believing that endurance training will help your VJ, which must be what you believe ("I guess the better question is why do you not believe that building endurance increase vj."

LOL, take "building endurance" to the extreme and what do you have? A bunch of slow-twitch marathon runner looking fools that can't jump for shit, although they may be able to repeat their 5 inch vert 1,000 times, lol.
Click to expand...


You know , I never read this rubbish...
I used to sprint quarters and I had well over a 45-50 vertical leap, and I never squatted more then 315 back then.

Yes , running does help your vertical. Once again the armchair quarterback with no sports training say all sorts of silly junk such as the junk above
 
But your 45-50inch VJ was not a standing one though - flat footed etc

and there's the difference

there is nobody in this world that can jump over 40inches standing flat footed without training - period
You need to be damn strong in relation to your bodyweight to do that as a basic requirement. The human body is not exactly a light thing.

standing 2 footed VJ or even 2 leg running jumps to a lesser degree, require more strength than reactivity. Running one leg jumps are mostly reactive, people who jump like this don't need to be as strong, but they are usually very light as well
 
coolcolj said:
But your 45-50inch VJ was not a standing one though - flat footed etc

and there's the difference

there is nobody in this world that can jump over 40inches standing flat footed without training - period
You need to be damn strong in relation to your bodyweight to do that as a basic requirement. The human body is not exactly a light thing.

standing 2 footed VJ or even 2 leg running jumps to a lesser degree, require more strength than reactivity. Running one leg jumps are mostly reactive, people who jump like this don't need to be as strong, but they are usually very light as well
Click to expand...

And I'll repeat my inital question , when in basketball , or any sport for that matter , do you jump from a flat footed position??
 
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