US troops defend our country......

[Testosterone boy]

Their presence has proven to be an effective deterrence to military aggression on our soil..........it has not happened in well over a century. A couple terrorist attacks(9/11 and 12/7) are minor exceptions.

We should all appreciate their real purpose and realize they are serving a current agenda whose ultimate purpose has yet to unfold.


God Bless America!

 

[Wycked Sceptre]

no one is gonna invade us bro, what do you propose?

 

[Testosterone boy]

And this is part of the reason that people stir the pot. To do otherwise means getting ignored.

 

[Testosterone boy]

no one is gonna invade us bro, what do you propose?

I am not unhappy with the military, I have severe questions about their current deployment however.

I would like to see a greater retention rate of the brightest and most competent.

 

[Wycked Sceptre]

I am not unhappy with the military, I have severe questions about their current deployment however.

I would like to see a greater retention rate of the brightest and most competent.

So you do not you think our best guys should be out proactively stifling terrorism? I fail to see the logic

 

[Testosterone boy]

So you do not you think our best guys should be out proactively stifling terrorism? I fail to see the logic

You put more than words in my mouth....you put an entire sentence.

What does your statement have to do with retaining quality personnel?

 

[manny78]

Also a good way to place many useless folks, many of them would be waiting for their welfare check otherwise.

 

[Wycked Sceptre]

What does your statement have to do with retaining quality personnel?

I would like to see a greater retention rate of the brightest and most competent.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Also a good way to place many useless folks, many of them would be waiting for their welfare check otherwise.

I've seen some ex-military guys kick major butt in the civilian market.

The military has all types in it........same with the RCMP I would think.

 

[manny78]

I've seen some ex-military guys kick major butt in the civilian market.

The military has all types in it........same with the RCMP I would think.

In fact, you now need a degree to get hired by the RCMP, not to mention all the tests (one of them being insane). The Canadian army is another song. 90% of the guys there being some dumbass.

 

[Testosterone boy]

In fact, you now need a degree to get hired by the RCMP, not to mention all the tests (one of them being insane). The Canadian army is another song. 90% of the guys there being some dumbass.

Canada has not needed an effective military for a very long time.

I approve of police having degrees.

 

[Testosterone boy]

So you do not you think our best guys should be out proactively stifling terrorism? I fail to see the logic

OK...I'll play the game of knowing what you are alluding to here.


Of course the proactive stifling of terrorism is logical. It may prove that the seizure of Iraq was an effective measure in this regard just as simply dropping a big nuke with any attack might be an effective deterrent.

I am not privy to a great deal of history and intelligence on the ME but I do know that Iraq has never sponsored an international terrorist to our knowledge. Defense of our action usually winds up to the effect that we needed the oil or the region needed change. I suspect a lot had to with the fact that it seemed like something drastic needed to be done.

I think the Iraqi operation could have been a good thing if properly orchestrated. It has not been.

BTW.........never heard of you. Debating an absolute stranger in cyberspace is ........interesting.

 

[2Thick]

Canada must have the best military in the world!!

And so does switzerland!

 

[DepressiveJuice]

i love this mans military. and canada does have a good military- the USAs

 

[75th]

i love this mans military. and canada does have a good military- the USAs

So true.

 

[Rex]

There are stupid people everywhere. A college degree doesn't mean that someone is smarter. I've seen a lot of dumb officers, and a degree is needed to be one.

Enlisted, commissioned, civilians. I've come across all sorts of idiots.

 

[Apöllo]

I've seen some ex-military guys kick major butt in the civilian market.

The military has all types in it........same with the RCMP I would think.

Our Matt is a prime example, He makes 500 grand a year and has 30 lawyers working for him.

 

[JBRO]

fuck yeah

 

[GoldenDelicious]

so far they may have been a deterrence but how long until the magic line in the sand is crossed, foreign hate towards an obtrusive USA consolidates, and their presence precipitates rather than deters terrorist acts against the USA

people do have their limits you know

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

In fact, you now need a degree to get hired by the RCMP, not to mention all the tests (one of them being insane). The Canadian army is another song. 90% of the guys there being some dumbass.

Manny- I agree with your position on the Canadian Military... most of those guys wouldn't have the skills to pump gas if they weren't employed by the Armed Forces.

However... the RCMP does not (not now, not ever) hire exclusively post-secondary educated people. I go as far to say that the RCMP has probably the lowest grade applicant of any police agency in Canada (except some of the 'Reserve' agencies). Both physically and in character... many members that are pouring out of Depot are questionable officers. Most are sent to lower mainland British Columbia... where they are strictly supervised in massive detachments and can hide their fuck-ups behind other cops. The top 5% of each troop are sent to the smaller detachments, called limited duration posts. There, they work one-man-cars and have proven that they operate independently in crisis situations... w/o supervision.

I'm not saying that 90% of RCMPolice Officers are dumbasses like their Military counterparts... but its not far from that.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I would like to see a greater retention rate of the brightest and most competent.

Typically, the best and most competent do not join the military. The enlisted ranks are composed largely of poor poeple, southerners, and minorities.

 

[manny78]

Manny- I agree with your position on the Canadian Military... most of those guys wouldn't have the skills to pump gas if they weren't employed by the Armed Forces.

However... the RCMP does not (not now, not ever) hire exclusively post-secondary educated people. I go as far to say that the RCMP has probably the lowest grade applicant of any police agency in Canada (except some of the 'Reserve' agencies). Both physically and in character... many members that are pouring out of Depot are questionable officers. Most are sent to lower mainland British Columbia... where they are strictly supervised in massive detachments and can hide their fuck-ups behind other cops. The top 5% of each troop are sent to the smaller detachments, called limited duration posts. There, they work one-man-cars and have proven that they operate independently in crisis situations... w/o supervision.

I'm not saying that 90% of RCMPolice Officers are dumbasses like their Military counterparts... but its not far from that.

Things have changed in the last two years. I can speak for "C" (Quebec) and they have a specific quota of post-secondary educated to respect. From what I've heard recently, the new guidelines would ask for a good 80% with a degree and if possible, over 23-25 years old. If you're under 27 and have no degree, your name will never be picked for "C". It takes either a shitload of experience/years of patrol, or a degree.

But I can see your point. Back in Depot, I could clearly identify those who were going to be sent to BC. Not that's its a bad thing for the recruit (actually a better option than being sent to Northern Saskatchewan), but it was for a good reason...

 

[75th]

Typically, the best and most competent do not join the military. The enlisted ranks are composed largely of poor poeple, southerners, and minorities.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

It's true bro....you know this.

They do a great job, but let's not fool ourselves about who is joining.

Ranger Regiment is more selective - people are knocking down the doors to get in, and I have met Rangers with degress...even the occasional PhD Ranger.

A typical line (light) infantry unit is different...to say nothing of mech infantry, armor, or support units.

 

[overhead]

Typically, the best and most competent do not join the military. The enlisted ranks are composed largely of poor poeple, southerners, and minorities.

Just out of curiosity, do you interact with the military on a regular basis? In my experience the level of stupidity in the military is equal to the level I have found in the private sector. Well, except maybe the Marines.......j/k. Also, I did not realize the fact that you are poor, or southern, or a minority had anything to do with your level of competence.

 

[75th]

It's true bro....you know this.

They do a great job, but let's not fool ourselves about who is joining.

Ranger Regiment is more selective - people are knocking down the doors to get in, and I have met Rangers with degress...even the occasional PhD Ranger.

A typical line (light) infantry unit is different...to say nothing of mech infantry, armor, or support units.

Ha yeah I totally agree with your sentiments. I was jokin around considering I opted out of going to OCS once I got my degree and decided to enlist as a PFC.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Just out of curiosity, do you interact with the military on a regular basis? In my experience the level of stupidity in the military is equal to the level I have found in the private sector. Well, except maybe the Marines.......j/k. Also, I did not realize the fact that you are poor, or southern, or a minority had anything to do with your level of competence.

My interactions:

Three years as an Army infantry officer, in both line and Ranger units, so I guess I could say I have interacted with my share of military people.

Is leading multiple platoons enough interaction to speak authoritatively?

The fact remains that

The Army gets most if its enlisted from a very small segment of society. The easiest way to categorize that segment is low-working-class.

MOST of them have weak high school educations, and have been exposed to little other than the small towns they are often from.

As far as comparisons to the civilian world:

Outside of the military they would be blue collar laborers, typically. Some of them find law enforcement after military life to be rewarding.

The Army is not the place of intellectuals, nor should it be.

 

[DepressiveJuice]

In my experience the level of stupidity in the military is equal to the level I have found in the private sector. Well, except maybe the Marines.......j/k.

lol

 

[BO-DEN]

My interactions:

Three years as an Army infantry officer, in both line and Ranger units, so I guess I could say I have interacted with my share of military people.

Is leading multiple platoons enough interaction to speak authoritatively?

The fact remains that

The Army gets most if its enlisted from a very small segment of society. The easiest way to categorize that segment is low-working-class.

MOST of them have weak high school educations, and have been exposed to little other than the small towns they are often from.

As far as comparisons to the civilian world:

Outside of the military they would be blue collar laborers, typically. Some of them find law enforcement after military life to be rewarding.

The Army is not the place of intellectuals, nor should it be.

gods and clauds

 

[75th]

I gotta go with MattTheSkywalker on this one. I still remember the day of my physical at MEPS, the doc had a few of us read allowed some of the questions we were supposed to answer, and half of the 17 or so people who accompanied me could barely spit out a complete sentence without numerous pauses.

 

[Rex]

I won't deny that some of the dumbest people I've come across have enlisted, but they're not the ones working with high priority jobs.

I have a GT score of 119 that I got on my ASVAB. 110 is needed for any job that is with the exception of some nuclear fields. My dumb ass picked a construction field thinking I'd get a job like the Seabees have in the Navy. My swim qual came back to haunt me and cost me the only job I wanted in the 1300 field. The recruiter didn't lie per se, but I was led to believe something else. My bust.

Had I known what I do now I would've done a few things differently in going into the military. Still would've joined regardless. Now that I have my health getting back in order I will attempt to get my MOS changed. MSG duty or counter intell are my prospects.

Matt no offense, but officers are bred to believe that all enlisted are relativley worthless except for being bullet sponges. Not all think like that; however, a large portion do.

 

[2Thick]

The Army is not the place of intellectuals, nor should it be.

Then what were you doing there?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt no offense, but officers are bred to believe that all enlisted are relativley worthless except for being bullet sponges. Not all think like that; however, a large portion do.

It's like anything else - stereotypes are what they are, and they are often, but not always, true.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Then what were you doing there?

When I was 21 I wasn't ready to do the corporate thing. There was some stuff I wanted to get out of my system.

I actually wanted to do Special Forces, and ranger regiment wasa stop on the way to that, but after getting hutr it didn;t work out.

Among the officers you will find some very smart, extremely well-educated people. Academy educations are superior to erverything except maybe the elite Ivy's (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) A lot of times academy grads are socially undeedeveloped, but that is another issue. I'm not an academy grad but enjoyed their company.

I don't want this to become an officer / enlisted thing....those who have been there will likely agree that many enlisted fit my above description. If you want further proof, drive through Columbus GA or Fayetteville NC, (or any town with a large Army base) and check out the military towns - cheesy jewelry stores, pawn shops, tacky used car dealerships, and the shittiest strip clubs you'll ever see...virtually all of the retail is geared to rip off young and ignorant/inexperienced enlisted troops.

It's self perpetutating - I wish the military did something to develop these kids a little more intellectually/personally. I know that enlisted infantry is not the place of the thinkers, nor should it be - the infantry's mission is to close with the enemy and blow his fucking head off - but at the same time, if I see another 19 year old in a purple Ford Escort with axle extenders and ground effects, I am going to go fucking crazy.

Sorry having flashbacks.

 

[Rex]

In my experience the level of stupidity in the military is equal to the level I have found in the private sector. Well, except maybe the Marines.......j/k.

lol. We go in first, get the worst living conditions, get treated like shit on a daily basis, and think a 96 [4 day vacation for the civilians] is the greatest. Yeah you can say we're stupid.

Outside of military bases are some of the shittiest towns you will come across. Main reason I want to go to Cali next, besides them going to Iraq next year, is that it's nicer than Camp Lejuene, NC.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Typically, the best and most competent do not join the military. The enlisted ranks are composed largely of poor poeple, southerners, and minorities.

I was referring to the leadership.


BTW.........I rarely take EF seriously, this is where I relax, blow off steam, stir pots, amuse myself, and convince myself that my future is better than it might be.

I think we all live in a bubble reality of our own manufacture but thats another subject.

 

[75th]

lol. We go in first

After the Rangers of course.

 

[Rex]

After the Rangers of course.

Not too start anything, but the Marines are an expeditionary unit so we go in first. In Somalia the Marines went in first secured the area, then the Army occupies. More joint task force operations take place now, but the mission is primarily the same.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Not too start anything, but the Marines are an expeditionary unit so we go in first. In Somalia the Marines went in first secured the area, then the Army occupies. More joint task force operations take place now, but the mission is primarily the same.

Somalia was the worst military operation ever.

12 infantry companies, 12 general officers, an indifferent administration that was more worried about the perceptions of the way we were trying to treat the world's poorest country AS WE HELPED THEM than about soldiers getting dragged through the streets.

Anyway....Marines are trained to storm the beach. rangers to seize airfields, although as those missions become less relevant, other methods of using these reources are beign developed.

Rangers are doing a lot of urban combat (MOUT? do they still call it that?) and I don't even know what is happening with marines.


Rangers lead the way and Marines are dumbass jarheads. LOL!!

 

[75th]

Not too start anything, but the Marines are an expeditionary unit so we go in first. In Somalia the Marines went in first secured the area, then the Army occupies. More joint task force operations take place now, but the mission is primarily the same.

I know, I wasnt trying to start anything either. I honestly dont know why there is "competition" if you will between the branches of service. We are all there to accomplish the same goal.

 

[75th]

Well, except the Coast Guard.

 

[Centurion]

Another proud moment in U.S. Military History.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi to the cheers of fellow marines



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/iraqiwar.rm

 

[BO-DEN]

Another proud moment in U.S. Military History.

U.S. Marines execute an Iraqi to the cheers of fellow marines



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/iraqiwar.rm

thats crazy

 

[Rex]

Matt: Yes they still call it MOUT. We have MOUT towns for simulation, but they're on a small scale. The combat training we receive for it isn't bad though. Thing is though that the Marines are pulled out since we aren't equipped for an occupation. That's supposed to change however.

Marines are deploying to Iraq for 7 month tours rotating with the 1st and 2nd MEF, but no word exactly what month. 3rd MEF just sucks. I hate being part of it since we don't do anything.

75th: Competition between branches is like being a kid. It was ok for you to pick on your brother, but if anyone else did you kicked their ass.