Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

US Busts SPIES!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter dballer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dballer

Guest
U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by Spy Network
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001
Spies Tap Police and Government Phones
In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services.

The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement.

The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad.

Both Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were warned on Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from local, state and federal law enforcement officials. The warning stated, "Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against U.S. intelligence and law enforcement operations. The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates.

Global Spy and Crime Network

The penetration of the U.S. wiretap system has led to a giant spy hunt across the globe by American intelligence agencies. U.S. intelligence officials now suspect the spy ring shared and sold information to other nations.

"Why do you think Putin so nonchalantly and with such great fanfare announced the shutdown of the Lourdes listening post in Cuba?" noted Douglas Brown, president of Multilingual Data Solutions Inc. and program director at the Nathan Hale Institute.

"Besides the PR benefit right before his visit here, the Russians don't need it anymore. They've scraped together a cheaper, more effective monitoring system. Is the Israeli company an element of that system? I don't know," stated Brown.

"With all the whining and crying about Echelon and Carnivore, critics, domestic and foreign, of U.S. electronic eavesdropping vastly overestimate our abilities to process and disseminate the stuff," noted Brown.

"The critics also underestimated the incompetence and total ineptness of the people running our intelligence and law enforcement services during the Clinton-Gore years. One guy uses his home computer for storing top secret documents; another high-tech guru guy can't figure out how to save and retrieve his e-mail, and the guy in charge of everything is having phone sex over an open line with one of his employees," said Brown.

"On the other hand, the Europeans, including the Russians, have been much more focused on the nuts and bolts of practical systems to process the information they scoop up. The stories linking German intelligence and the L&H scandal got very little play here but were widely noted in the European software community," said Brown.

"Except for a few Germans and an occasional Pole, nobody can match the Russians in designing and developing algorithms. We may have some of the world's greatest programmers, but the Russians and Europeans do a better job of matching up linguists and area experts with their programmers," noted Brown.

The discovery of a major spy ring inside the United States is straining the already tense relations with Israel. Although, Israel denied any involvement with the penetration of the U.S. wiretap system, the CIA and FBI are investigating the direct government ties to the former Israeli military and intelligence officials now being held by the Justice Department.

Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps

One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement.

Custom computers and software made by Comverse are tied into the U.S. phone network in order to intercept, record and store wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.

The penetration of Comverse reportedly allowed criminals to wiretap law enforcement communications in reverse and foil authorized wiretaps with advance warning. One major drug bust operation planned by the Los Angeles police was foiled by what now appear to be reverse wiretaps placed on law enforcement phones by the criminal spy ring.

Flawed laws Led to Compromise

Several U.S. privacy and security advocates contend the fault actually lies in the CALEA legislation passed by Congress that allowed the spy ring to operate so effectively. Lisa Dean, vice president for technology policy at Free Congress Foundation, delivered a scathing critique of the breach of the U.S. law enforcement wiretap system.

"We are exercising our 'I told you so' rights on this," said Dean.

"From the beginning, both the political right and left warned Congress and the FBI that they were making a huge mistake by implementing CALEA. That it would jeopardize the security of private communications, whether it's between a mother and her son or between government officials. The statement just issued by law enforcement agencies has confirmed our worst fears," concluded Dean.

"How many more 9/11s do we have to suffer?" asked Brad Jansen, deputy director for technology policy at the Free Congress Foundation.

"The CALEA form of massive surveillance is a poor substitute for real law enforcement and intelligence work. It is an after-the-fact method of crime fighting. It is not designed to prevent crime. Massive wiretapping does not equal security. Instead, we have elected to jeopardize our national security in exchange for poor law enforcement," said Jansen.

"For example, FINCEN monitoring of all money transactions did not detect al-Qaeda, nor did it find Mohamed Atta before he boarded his last flight. It was an ATM receipt left in his rental car that led the FBI to the bin Laden bank accounts," noted Jansen.

U.S. National Security Compromised

"The CALEA approach is the same approach law enforcement has been pushing for a number of years. It's the same approach that was used to push Carnivore, Magic Lantern, FINCEN and even the failed Clipper project. This approach leads to a compromise in national security and in personal security for the American public," said Jansen.

"In addition, there is always government abuse of these kinds of systems," stated Jansen. "Law enforcement on all levels does a very poor job in policing itself. We need to hold our police and government officials to the highest standards."

"This also hurts the U.S. economy when the whole world knows that our communication systems are not secure. We cannot compete with inferior products when other countries are exporting secure software and hardware. New Zealand, India and Chile already offer security products that actually provide real security," stated Jansen.

"The current mentality of law enforcement is what failed to protect us from 9/11. CALEA wiretaps will not protect us from terror attacks in the future. The system does not provide better intelligence information. It actually leads to less security and more crime. We get the worst of both worlds," concluded Jansen.
 
We are so good and Secure..

And yet, a leaky boatload of haitians makes it across the way and rolls up and drops them just down from downtown Miami...
 
2Thick said:
Be careful dballer, you might be called an anti-semite for posting that.

Yeah.. I already know that some people will call you that for not turning your head to Israel's regieme of terror.. but I could care less who lives there. The government there needs to be exposed as the tyrant they are.
 
dballer said:


Yeah.. I already know that some people will call you that for not turning your head to Israel's regieme of terror.. but I could care less who lives there. The government there needs to be exposed as the tyrant they are.

It will be ignored. As you know, certain people have a lot of power in the US (even thought they are only 2% of the population).
 
supernav said:
>two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all
>the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law
>enforcement.

ANYONE see something wrong with this statement? Having FOREIGN countries in charge of this nation's wiretaps? Anything see what's wrong here?

And you WONDER why we get attacked on 9/11 by people who hate Isreal. When Bin Laden said we support and kiss Isreal's ass, he wasn't kidding.

What next, the Nation of Congo in charge of transporting FBI prisoners for us? Maybe China in charge of installing cameras in our courtrooms.

-= nav =-


GODDAMNED RIGHT!!!!!

We as American citizens need to realize that ALL secrets and aid to other countries needs to be cut. Our supposed allies are fuckin backstabbing liars!!!
 
supernav said:
No shit. Think CNN is going to report his HEADLINE NEWS? Fuck no.

That's cuz Washington and Isreal control the media, and they make sure a suicide bombing makes headlines aroudn the clock...but anything Isreal is doing is page 14 of your paper. It's called biased reporting.

Everyone knows CNN favors Isreal in it's reporting. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Also CNN doesn't like China. You hear plenty of anti-china, protests, etc. news stories. I swear they are so predictable in their reporting. :)

-= nav =-

You better be careful, you are starting to sound like a NAZI!!!

You might as well change your name to HITLER!!
 
2Thick said:


You better be careful, you are starting to sound like a NAZI!!!

You might as well change your name to HITLER!!

I have been called names like that for simply stating that I do not aggree with Israel.


Are the Arabs that attack Israel called anti-semites.. even though they are semetic?
 
Ok let me make sure I understand:

"Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

I'm cool with this. Big Brother is getting less info.

The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates.

I'm cool with this too. Informants are scum and drugs should be legal.


let's look at the article a little bit more closely.

the Russians don't need it anymore. They've scraped together a cheaper, more effective monitoring system. Is the Israeli company an element of that system? I don't know,"

The Russians? Their country is pretty much third world. Hardly a threat. And we "don't know" if this system is part of it. And the guy who said that is a vendor who would sell better equipment to the government.


"With all the whining and crying about Echelon and Carnivore, critics, domestic and foreign, of U.S. electronic eavesdropping vastly overestimate our abilities to process and disseminate the stuff," noted Brown.

yes. let's ignore the fact that the government has programs that can intercept our emails and read them all. Instead, let's focus the attention on the fact that big brother needs MORE resources to look after us.


And so on, and so on. whether this is true or not, this is just more propagnda telling us: we are not safe. We need better resources and renewed energy into wiretaps and surveillance and intelligence gathering to make us safer.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Ok let me make sure I understand:

"Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

I'm cool with this. Big Brother is getting less info.

The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates.

I'm cool with this too. Informants are scum and drugs should be legal.


let's look at the article a little bit more closely.

the Russians don't need it anymore. They've scraped together a cheaper, more effective monitoring system. Is the Israeli company an element of that system? I don't know,"

The Russians? Their country is pretty much third world. Hardly a threat. And we "don't know" if this system is part of it. And the guy who said that is a vendor who would sell better equipment to the government.


"With all the whining and crying about Echelon and Carnivore, critics, domestic and foreign, of U.S. electronic eavesdropping vastly overestimate our abilities to process and disseminate the stuff," noted Brown.

yes. let's ignore the fact that the government has programs that can intercept our emails and read them all. Instead, let's focus the attention on the fact that big brother needs MORE resources to look after us.


And so on, and so on. whether this is true or not, this is just more propagnda telling us: we are not safe. We need better resources and renewed energy into wiretaps and surveillance and intelligence gathering to make us safer.

I prefer to think of it as a thinly veiled attempt to destroy any chance of valid anti-Israeli information by releasing tons of bogus articles that look like nothing but propaganda.
 
DBaller, where'd u get that stuff from, ur link is a opinions page
 
great.....thanxs guys :)
 
2Thick said:


I prefer to think of it as a thinly veiled attempt to destroy any chance of valid anti-Israeli information by releasing tons of bogus articles that look like nothing but propaganda.

Some truth in that as well.
 
supernav said:
Foxnews pulling it down only PROVES just how tied in washington-media-isreal really are together. Americans are gettin soooo much biased inforamtion, it really makes me question everything i read, including all this Iraq and War on Terror stuff.

The days of journalistic freedom and integrity are long gone. Replaced by sensationalism and deals with the government to continue getting access and "scoops" in return for "favors".

-= nav =-

When did nav ( a feaking hippie from LA) become one of my favorite members?
 
supernav said:
hehe. I've been a short haired, nerdy corporate america geek for most of my life. Just only past 3 years at 27 i started growing the hair and playing guitar. I'm still a total news/technical/debating geek inside. :)

-= nav =-

A smart and curious hippie is stilla hippie... You merely came out of the hippie closet..;)
 
spentagn said:
This is fucking pathetic.

That is why I posted it. Everyone is bitching about Saddam.. and here we are giving spies money!!!
 
2Thick said:


I prefer to think of it as a thinly veiled attempt to destroy any chance of valid anti-Israeli information by releasing tons of bogus articles that look like nothing but propaganda.

excellent point.
 
Prometheus said:


excellent point.

Still no takers on this one huh?? curling.. where are you...??? Alex Cross.... come on guys.. explain this one!!!
 
Buying Israel with US tax dollars: 4 Billion
Deaths from the WTC: 2800


Cost of having Israel as our ally: PRICELESS.
 
Why would any logical person attempt to debate with such sound logic as that presented by this circle-jerk of geniuses?

This should be retitled the Dballer/2thick/MP5 stroke-off thread.

Here's what you asked for. You are such anti-semites that you don't even see the hypocrisy any more. Let me be the first to stand up and say WHAT FUCKING HYPOCRITES you are.

How easily and quickly you are to point to actions indisputably encouraged and sanctioned by most of the Arab-Muslim world and say that they merely represent the actions of "a few" radical Muslims and that they should not be extrapolated to represent the entire culture, yet the actions of ONE Israeli company represents all of Israel as well as Judiasm?

One more time...Hypocrite anti-semites.

Like a dog with a bone or a liberal with an agenda, it's impressive how you are conveniently absent from the discussion the gazillion times the shoe is on the other foot. Dballer, 2Thick, and MP5 in bed together? What could have caused something like this? Nothing short of Israel-bashing.

Sounds to most intelligent individuals more like these PARTICULAR Israelis were engaging in the oldest business model known to man- CAPITALISM. They were selling a highly-valued commodity (intelligence) to the highest bidder. Clearly this espionage WAS NOT AT THE BEHEST OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. Rather, it was the action of individuals out for one thing and one thing only...(three guesses:) $$$$$$$. And the Israeli government really doesn't need an extra $100,000 that this information might sell for. "Res ipso loquitor" is the legal term I believe.

The article pretty much proves they WEREN'T representing Israel because if they did, the information would have been given to and used (as previously) solely by Israel (something which has undeniably happened in past with proven Israeli-American spies- I won't give you the info for ammo if you don't already know it but their last name ended in "-berg" LOL).

What, maybe you think there are no other allies that spy on one another? Please don't make me laugh. It happens with EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. The difference (or similarity in this case) is that the espionage information is not used AGAINST your allies but rather to "keep tabs" on them. Furthermore, the media and the government pretty much do all they can to sweep such news under the rug because it a) is embarassing and b) needlessly weakens the strength of alliances.

Sorry to have ruined your circle-jerk, guys.

Now go ahead and refute that when you guys finish cleaning each other up.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KEL
thebabydoc said:
Why would any logical person attempt to debate with such sound logic as that presented by this circle-jerk of geniuses?

This should be retitled the Dballer/2thick/MP5 stroke-off thread.

Here's what you asked for. You are such anti-semites that you don't even see the hypocrisy any more. Let me be the first to stand up and say WHAT FUCKING HYPOCRITES you are.

How easily and quickly you are to point to actions indisputably encouraged and sanctioned by most of the Arab-Muslim world and say that they merely represent the actions of "a few" radical Muslims and that they should not be extrapolated to represent the entire culture, yet the actions of ONE Israeli company represents all of Israel as well as Judiasm?

One more time...Hypocrite anti-semites.

Like a dog with a bone or a liberal with an agenda, it's impressive how you are conveniently absent from the discussion the gazillion times the shoe is on the other foot. Dballer, 2Thick, and MP5 in bed together? What could have caused something like this? Nothing short of Israel-bashing.

Sounds to most intelligent individuals more like these PARTICULAR Israelis were engaging in the oldest business model known to man- CAPITALISM. They were selling a highly-valued commodity (intelligence) to the highest bidder. Clearly this espionage WAS NOT AT THE BEHEST OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. Rather, it was the action of individuals out for one thing and one thing only...(three guesses $$$$$$$. And the Israeli government really doesn't need an extra $100,000 that this information might sell for. "Res ipso loquitor" is the legal term I believe.

The article pretty much proves they WEREN'T representing Israel because if they did, the information would have been given to and used (as previously) solely by Israel (something which has undeniably happened in past with proven Israeli-American spies- I won't give you the info for ammo if you don't already know it but their last name ended in "-berg" LOL).

What, maybe you think there are no other allies that spy on one another? Please don't make me laugh. It happens with EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. The difference (or similarity in this case) is that the espionage information is not used AGAINST your allies but rather to "keep tabs" on them. Furthermore, the media and the government pretty much do all they can to sweep such news under the rug because it a) is embarassing and b) needlessly weakens the strength of alliances.

Sorry to have ruined your circle-jerk, guys.

Now go ahead and refute that when you guys finish cleaning each other up.
for safe keeping :)
 
2Thick said:
WTF!!! Did babydoc delete his post. I was about to reply to his oh so enlightening ramble... You scared of a reply?
Yeah, like I'd ever delete a post!

No actually, I was just sitting here shaking up my ready-to-be-opened can of whoopass and waiting to start the bloodletting.
 
thebabydoc said:
Here's what you asked for. You are such anti-semites that you don't even see the hypocrisy any more. Let me be the first to stand up and say WHAT FUCKING HYPOCRITES you are.

How easily and quickly you are to point to actions indisputably encouraged and sanctioned by most of the Arab-Muslim world and say that they merely represent the actions of "a few" radical Muslims and that they should not be extrapolated to represent the entire culture, yet the actions of ONE Israeli company represents all of Israel as well as Judiasm?

One more time...Hypocrite anti-semites.

Just because something is not in favor of Israel, it is not anti-Jew.

You sound anti-2Thick to me. A hypocrite, anti-2Thick!!!!
 
2Thick said:


I was about to open a case of whoop-ass, so you better hurry and catch up.
Why don't you stop talkin' shit and try writing it?
Are you waiting for Dballer and MP5 to return from the shower???
 
2Thick said:


Are you actually getting pissed or are you still fooling around? Because, I am.
You're getting pissed off? I didn't think intelligent, logical people allowed themselves to lose their temper.:rolleyes:
 
BTW...

You sure are taking a long time with that reply...
nice stalling tactics but all the time in the world will not help you with this topic.

Just wait until Matt gets back, then you'll really be in for it!
 
Babydoc, 2thick and i are on two completely opposite political platforms yet we agree on this issue. That should tell you something. Not buying into the myth that Israel is some poor victim does not mean you are antisemite. Go and read some FACTS about Israel, and pay attention.

Did i mention i like Jerry Seinfeld.?
 
here are some more FACTS for you Babydoc:
"The state of Israel can truly be described as a gigantic, swollen parasite fastened on the American people. Most Americans are not aware of how much money is poured from the US Treasury into Israel. According to former Congressman Paul Findley, "Each year, US aid to Israel exceeds that given to any other country. Since 1987 direct economic and military aid has annually totaled $3 billion or more. In addition, financial arrangements worked out solely for Israel bring the total to about $5 billion a year. This does not include such generous programs as the $10 billion loan guarantee granted Israel in 1992. US law provides for the termination of all aid, economic and military, to any nation that develops nuclear weapons or 'engages in a consistent pattern of gross violation of internationally recognized human rights.' For years, the US government has been aware of Israel's development of a nuclear arsenal and its persistent human rights violations. But no president or Congress has ever taken steps to terminate aid, as required by law, or even reduce it...."

And tell me this Babydoc, what was the real cause of the WTC attack? I really want to know your theory on why we were targeted.
 
There are some people who believe SOOO strongly in somthing that no matter how destructive and horrible it may be, they will defend it.

I do not condone the actions of Israel. That does not mean I am anti-semetic. What is strange to me is the FACT that when you point out the crimes that Israel has made against us (the United States) that is OUR country.. mine, Babydoc's and MP5's... I am still called anti-semite.

I was called anti-semite for pointing out that Israel killed 34 American Navy seamen in 1967 (USS Liberty)... I was called anti-semetic for telling everyone about Israel selling our nuclear sectrets to China..then I pointed out that Israel sends spies to our country... for this I am called an anti-semite?

Defending these actions sounds, to me, anti-American.

The way I look at it is.. you can be loyal to one country.. I am loyal to one country. ANY country that commits crimes against MY country.. I am against. As I said before.. I did not base my view on that country because of the color or religious beliefs of the people living there. I based them on the backstabbing events and crimes that Israel has commited against The United States of America.

This is the country that my Grandfater fought for, my Father fought for. They did not risk their lives to have someone who is supposed to be an allied force sink our ships, sell our secrets and send spies to our soil.

If you want to call me anti-semite.. and being an anti-semite means wanting the BEST for our country...well... I guess that is what you can call me. But that does not mean I have ANYTHING against ANYONE for what they look like.. or what God they pray to.
 
Dballer-

Debating with you is like talking to a rock.
There are some people who believe SOOO strongly in somthing that no matter how destructive and horrible it may be, they will defend it.
You have made up your mind that the Israelis, (the Jews), are evil for what they have done IN RESPONSE to the palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraquis, etc, etc, etc... and you will grab onto and cling to any piece of data which might support that position, no matter how tenuously. Simultaneously, you IGNORE hundreds of other facts that directly and irrefutably contradict and disprove your theorems/beliefs.

The Israelis were not responsible for 9/11. It was ARABS. Indisputable evidence has linked Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and a multitude of other ARAB countries to these attacks. The theory that Israel is the cause is like saying a woman wearing stiletto heels and a leather mini-skirt caused herself to be raped. The "horrible" acts you describe (don't forget the hundreds of americans killed in embassy bombings, boat bombings, etc...) were perpetrated by a specific group of ARABS; NOT BY ISRAEL.

I don't know that you were called an anti-semite for "reporting" the breaking news that Israel killed 34 American seamen 35 YEARS AGO, but I find it amusing that this 35-year-old fact has been the best you can come up with to date to "justify" why we shouldn't support Israel and why they are evil. "Defending these actions?" Aside from the FACT that this occured 35 YEARS AGO, no one is defending nor even attempting to justify this action, it was a "horrible" act perpetrated by a desperate govenment in very poor judgement in a time long ago under VASTLY different political situations. Oh yes, don't forget that the USS Liberty was SPYING on Israel at the time and it was information they discovered that the Israelis were attempting to destroy. (Conveniently left that out, eh?). Lastly, they formally apologized, took responsibility, and made reparations- not much different than Ford and their Crown Vics, a calculated gamble that didn't pay. Like I said, your entire belief system is anchored by this tiny little ancient thread.

News flash Tom- we have also killed many of our allies as they have us in many reported "accidents" and the fact is, we'll never be allowed to know the full truth regarding any of those situatuions. On this we agree.

Israel selling "our" nuclear secrets to China? Puhlease... France had already sold reactors along with the technology to make enriched uranium (plutonium) to anyone who could scrape together the 50 cents to buy a croissant. You want an enemy? Look at France. We get nothing from them. They block us and criticize us and refuse our military use of their airspace at every opportunity. At least the river of espionage and military information flows both ways with Israel.

"Crimes against the US?" Spare me. Once again you focus on tiny "facts" yet overlook the blatant crimes committed by the rest of the world, especially the Arab world.

The world is not black and white. Israel is a sovereign nation and needs to look out for number 1. Just because they receive money from the US doesn't mean that they're gonna be our pet puppy. All the money in the world ain't gonna help them if they aren't looking out for their self-interests first. And since the US is likely to put pressure on them when certain issues come up, don't they have an interest to be informed ahead of time (e.g. espionage)? And no, the Israeli Government doesn't sell these "secrets," that would be completely AGAINST their self interests...Res Ipso Loquitor.

Look at it this way: would you rather have a friend that tells you the truth or one that just tells you what you want to hear? Prime example (albeit 10 years old)- the destruction of the Iraqui reactor (built by the French) at Al Quatar. Like it or not, the Israelis often do OUR "dirty work" and we need plausible deniability. Also, their regional intelligence (although also flawed) is INFINITELY better than ours, so who are we, with our limited information, to tell them what is right and wrong for their region of the world?

Accept that you are an anti-semite because:

1) you don't even realize it. e.g. the "some of my best friends are black" theory. Racists seldom are proud to be so (except our pal MP5)

2) you focus on old, insignificant "facts" to prove your theorems but blatantly overlook and refuse to accept ANY facts which might contradict your beliefs. (Do you even believe the holocaust happened?) For examples, look at people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan

3) you believe that an ethnic group (the Jews) all behave in the same way and believe the same things (ethnic stereotyping). Are you even aware that there are 3 major political parties in Israel and that their Knesset (senate) operates in such a way that the minority party actually often has more power than either of the majority parties?


As for you MP5, why don't you just put that swastika back in your avatar you ridiculously bloated redneck?

I know of no "facts" that include the words "gigantic, swollen parasite." These are inflammatory and invective words used to express SUBJECTIVE opinions, not facts. Your entire quotation is so flawed on so many levels that it isn't even worth a comment other than to ask the obvious question: "what white supremacist handbook did you pull it out of?"

And once again, for the children in the back of the bus, the CAUSE of the 9/11 attacks was 9 ARABS and their psycho leaders. Nothing else. Just as you can't explain the criminally insane logic of The Beltway Sniper, Son of Sam, William Hinkley, John Wayne Gasey, Jack The Ripper, and a dozen more, you can't reduce the killing of almost 3000 people to a single, logical cause.

I also note for the record the absence of 2Thick, an absolutely blinded liberal, but one who nevertheless apparently still has the capacity for reason and logical thought and can (sometimes) still debate intelligently and examine facts on both sides of an issue. Either the facts of this issue have posed a very difficult connundrum for him or he has decided to stay clear of a debate supported on his side only by two racists.
 
Last edited:
Anyone forgetting that the Israelis attacked a US Navy ship in international waters in 1967, killing many sailors????
 
spentagn said:


Sarcasm, right?

Oh, yeah. ECHWAM :frLOL:

Nope, but they knew it was a US ship and they attacked because they were spying in International water (lawfull by anymean).

seem that some people have a short memory sometime eh :D
 
3Vandoo said:
Anyone forgetting that the Israelis attacked a US Navy ship in international waters in 1967, killing many sailors????
Sorry 2Thick, now this DOES piss me off.

Are you retarded???!?!?! Talk about Captain Obvious. How could you know how to type but not how to read?

For the kids that altogether missed the bus (that's you 3VanDooDoo):

Dballer again brought up the USS Liberty incident (for the gazillionth time); I then commented how it happened 35 years ago (see bold letters in my last PhD thesis), how it was actually a response to US espionage, and how no one was really defending it but it still remains the only "crime against the US" by Israel that Dballer can significantly point to in 35 YEARS; and then you came along with your waste of bandwidth.

Get with the program.
 
thebabydoc said:
Sorry 2Thick, now this DOES piss me off.

Are you retarded???!?!?! Talk about Captain Obvious. How could you know how to type but not how to read?

For the kids that altogether missed the bus (that's you 3VanDooDoo):

Dballer again brought up the USS Liberty incident (for the gazillionth time); I then commented how it happened 35 years ago (see bold letters in my last PhD thesis), how it was actually a response to US espionage, and how no one was really defending it but it still remains the only "crime against the US" by Israel that Dballer can significantly point to in 35 YEARS; and then you came along with your waste of bandwidth.

Get with the program.

and Holocaust happened 57 years, but I still hear about it like it happened yesterday.
 
I also just reread Dballer's original post and in that amazingly long article could only find 2 1/2 references to Israel:

1) The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies...

2) Although Israel denied any involvement with the penetration of the U.S. wiretap system, the CIA and FBI are investigating the direct government ties to the former Israeli military and intelligence officials now being held by the Justice Department...

3) The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps...appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad. (No proof, just conjecture...Israeli companies so they must be government sanctioned, eh?)

In fact, the entire article really is about the failure of CALEA, the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act rather than an accusation of Israel. Funny how out of 30 some-odd paragraphs containing 140 lines and 1,500 words, Dballer can extrapolate 10 or so lines of text with which to condemn Israel. Congratulations Tom, you are a master sleuth. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack!
 
Last edited:
manny78 said:
and Holocaust happened 57 years, but I still hear about it like it happened yesterday.
Perhaps because the slaughter of 20 million human beings in the attempted genocide of one ethnic group for no other reason than racism might warrant that no one forget.

Here's a little table for you Manny.

And check this one out:
Table 1
Estimates of Non-Combatant Lives Lost During the Holocaust
Ukrainians: 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries): 6 million +
Russian POWs: 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians: 2 million +
Poles: 3 million +
Yugoslavians: 1.5 million +
Gypsies: 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled: 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals: Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans: Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses: 2,500 - 5,000
________________________________________________
Total : roughly 22 MILLION
from here (total).

You should remember it like it happened yesterday. Hey, maybe Dballer and MP5 could blame those 22 million deaths on the Jews too. It's the ignorance of you fucks that truly amazes.
 
thebabydoc said:
Perhaps because the slaughter of 20 million human beings in the attempted genocide of one ethnic group for no other reason than racism might warrant that no one forget.

Here's a little table for you Manny.

And check this one out:
Table 1
Estimates of Non-Combatant Lives Lost During the Holocaust
Ukrainians: 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries): 6 million +
Russian POWs: 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians: 2 million +
Poles: 3 million +
Yugoslavians: 1.5 million +
Gypsies: 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled: 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals: Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans: Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses: 2,500 - 5,000
________________________________________________
Total : roughly 22 MILLION
from here (total).

You should remember it like it happened yesterday. Hey, maybe Dballer and MP5 could blame those 22 million deaths on the Jews too. It's the ignorance of you fucks that truly amazes.

so what ? Armenians died during the Trukish Holocaust, million sof russians from different ethnic background died in the hands of Staline, over 500 000 people in Rwanda. But still, we always hear about jews. Jews this, jews that. BTW how does supporting Israel improves your life ?

Did you ever hear about the King David hotel massacre ? Irgun ? Stern gang ?......
 
manny78 said:

so what ? Armenians died during the Trukish Holocaust, million sof russians from different ethnic background died in the hands of Staline, over 500 000 people in Rwanda. But still, we always hear about jews. Jews this, jews that. BTW how does supporting Israel improves your life ?

Did you ever hear about the King David hotel massacre ? Irgun ? Stern gang ?......
Heard of all of those things. Small acts in the creation of a nation. What exactly do you think occured immediately prior to and throughout the American Revolution?

As for the Holocaust, try reading my post. Anything there specifically relating to JEWS? No.

Supporting Israel "improves" my life for one because I am Jewish. But that is not the only reason. They are the only stable, democratic government in the most volatile anti-American region in the world. Over there, they are our eyes, ears, and yes even our "big stick" when it's called for. They are our ONLY ally in the Middle East, surrounded by countries that hate us, not because we support Israel, but because of our way of life threatens their ancient beliefs, beliefs which require them to continue to keep their people in the stone ages of the third world.

As for Israel, they have the single greatest concentration of scientific minds in the entire world. Ever hear of the Weitzman Institute? Their advances in medicine, electronic technology, farming, and yes, battle-tested military hardware are second to none. Why do you think the US was using Israeli companies to produce and manage our wire-tapping technology?

We give large companies in the US tax breaks for R+D roughly equal to 10 times what we give to Israel each year. And don't forget that Egypt gets The exact same amount. What do they produce? Arabs. Not even oil.

Furthermore, since JEWS (as everyone is so eager to point out) are all sooooo rich and make sooooo much money and have soooo much political and media power, it stands to reason that we pay a disproportionately larger amount of US taxes (I, for one, contributed over $100,000 last year alone, that's gotta be at least as much as 10 of you goyim). So I'm ENTITLED to request that my tax dollars to go to something I support.

BTW, you are not even American so what the fuck business is it of yours and what right do you have to even comment on where we spend our money. If I remember right, you're practically French Socialist so pretty much whatever you have to say regarding international politics is pretty much fucked.

Sorry to sound like Fonz but I own all you ignorant assholes.
Sound logic and facts coupled with intellect crushes ignorance and racism any day of the week.
 
2Thick said:

Egyptians are not Arab.

Since you own all of these people, you should at least get that fact straight.
So sorry, we named that particular group of Arabs when they ceased to be terrorists, so I should have written:
"What do they produce? Egyptians."

The inhabitants of the region are still all Arabs.
 
thebabydoc said:
Heard of all of those things. Small acts in the creation of a nation. What exactly do you think occured immediately prior to and throughout the American Revolution?

As for the Holocaust, try reading my post. Anything there specifically relating to JEWS? No.

Supporting Israel "improves" my life for one because I am Jewish. But that is not the only reason. They are the only stable, democratic government in the most volatile anti-American region in the world. Over there, they are our eyes, ears, and yes even our "big stick" when it's called for. They are our ONLY ally in the Middle East, surrounded by countries that hate us, not because we support Israel, but because of our way of life threatens their ancient beliefs, beliefs which require them to continue to keep their people in the stone ages of the third world.

As for Israel, they have the single greatest concentration of scientific minds in the entire world. Ever hear of the Weitzman Institute? Their advances in medicine, electronic technology, farming, and yes, battle-tested military hardware are second to none. Why do you think the US was using Israeli companies to produce and manage our wire-tapping technology?

We give large companies in the US tax breaks for R+D roughly equal to 10 times what we give to Israel each year. And don't forget that Egypt gets The exact same amount. What do they produce? Arabs. Not even oil.

Furthermore, since JEWS (as everyone is so eager to point out) are all sooooo rich and make sooooo much money and have soooo much political and media power, it stands to reason that we pay a disproportionately larger amount of US taxes (I, for one, contributed over $100,000 last year alone, that's gotta be at least as much as 10 of you goyim). So I'm ENTITLED to request that my tax dollars to go to something I support.

BTW, you are not even American so what the fuck business is it of yours and what right do you have to even comment on where we spend our money. If I remember right, you're practically French Socialist so pretty much whatever you have to say regarding international politics is pretty much fucked.

Sorry to sound like Fonz but I own all you ignorant assholes.
Sound logic and facts coupled with intellect crushes ignorance and racism any day of the week.

Ok Shylock, here we go:

- You're Jew. Thats what I thought. A jew speech.

- The only democarcy in the middle east..... so what. Funny how you like to use the "democracy" thing so much but you forget about countries like Chile and Pinochet that you sponsored for so long.

- Egypt/arabs, lol...... go back to school.

- also the Ol' "I made more than last year", "my dick is bigger than yours....blablabla....". It's all internet. You could be another momma boy like Captain Insano....who knows...

- ALso neither me nor 2Thick are 100% French Canadians. Once again get your facts straight. And I will comment anything I want. Not happy ? Go on Triedia.

- Owned ? Lol......so Egyptians are arabs .......lol SInce jews are known for being intelligent people, I believe you're the dumbest jew I've ever seen.
 
2Thick said:
Egyptians are not Arab.

:confused: Then why is Egypt one of the founding members of the Arab League?

2Thick said:
No, really. They are not Arab.

Check out the info in the CIA factbook.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/eg.html

According to the CIA factbook, Egypt is officially known as Jumhuriyat Misr al-Arabiyah, which translates as Arab Republic of Egypt.

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of Egypt's population speaks Arabic as their native tongue. Source: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Egypt

From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

"Arab n.

1. A member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia, whose language and Islamic religion spread widely throughout the Middle East and northern Africa from the seventh century.

2. A member of an Arabic-speaking people."

Where is Egypt located? What is the dominant religion in Egypt? And what language does the majority of its population speak?
 
Stumpy said:


:confused: Then why is Egypt one of the founding members of the Arab League?



According to the CIA factbook, Egypt is officially known as Jumhuriyat Misr al-Arabiyah, which translates as Arab Republic of Egypt.

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of Egypt's population speaks Arabic as their native tongue. Source: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Egypt

From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

"Arab n.

1. A member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia, whose language and Islamic religion spread widely throughout the Middle East and northern Africa from the seventh century.

2. A member of an Arabic-speaking people."

Where is Egypt located? What is the dominant religion in Egypt? And what language does the majority of its population speak?

It does not change the FACT that the ethnic make-up is not Arab.

Just because I speak a language or identify with a certain group people does not mean that I am a member of that group.

I guess that CIA is not a reliable enough source for you.
 
oh my god, Babydoc you are blind. 6 million jews DID NOT DIE IN THE HOLOCO$T!!!!!! They claimed like 4 million died in Auschwitz alone. Then the truth came out and it was more like 100,000, and of that 70,000 were nonjews! That is right, less jews were killed than nonjews. Read up on your history.
 
2Thick said:
It does not change the FACT that the ethnic make-up is not Arab.

Just because I speak a language or identify with a certain group people does not mean that I am a member of that group.

I guess that CIA is not a reliable enough source for you.

No, actually, the CIA factbook is a decent source of info.

Look what they wrote for Lybia, whose ethnic composition is very similar to that of Egypt: "Berber and Arab 97%." http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ly.html

Also, Tunisia had a very similar substratum population (Hamitic and Semitic) to that of Egypt prior to the Arab conquest. This is what the CIA has for their ethnic composition: "Arab 98%." http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ts.html The numbers of Arab invaders in Tunisia was even smaller than in Egypt, but they're considered Arab. What gives?

So, the Tunisians and Lybians are now considered Arab, even though they're ethnically very similar to Egyptians, but Egyptians are not Arab? The processes of acculturation and Arabicization following the Arab conquest were very similar in all three regions.

This is what they have for Syria: "Arab 90.3%." That's despite the fact that the majority of Arabic-speaking Syrians are of northwestern Semitic stock, and that they were conquered by the Arabs roughly at the same time as Egypt. They should've said that the population of Syria is Syrian, of northwestern Semitic stock, like they wrote about Egypt's population, and I quote, "Eastern Hamitic stock (Egyptians...)." Using your logic, Syrians are not Arab either, but the CIA listed them as Arab.

As for your second point, about language and ethnic identification, if you're forced to acculturate and adopt the language, culture, and religion of a different ethnic group, your children will be part of that ethnos. Many modern Germans have Slavic ancestry, but they are not considered Slavic because they became German centuries ago through assimilation, just like most modern Egyptians (and Syrians, Tunisians, etc.) are considered Arab.
 
MP5 said:
oh my god, Babydoc you are blind. 6 million jews DID NOT DIE IN THE HOLOCO$T!!!!!! They claimed like 4 million died in Auschwitz alone. Then the truth came out and it was more like 100,000, and of that 70,000 were nonjews! That is right, less jews were killed than nonjews. Read up on your history.
You are, simply put, the stupidest person on this or any board. Res Ipso Loquitor

Thank you for proving that fact to everyone here without my having to complete another 1,000 word essay.
 
manny78 said:
- You're Jew. Thats what I thought. A jew speech. .
Nice argument. Point made. My argument sucks and my facts are all false. You and MP5 should go and fuck yourselves, you racist anti-semitic fuck. typical
- The only democarcy in the middle east..... so what. Funny how you like to use the "democracy" thing so much but you forget about countries like Chile and Pinochet that you sponsored for so long.
And your point is...? Is this your well-thought out rebuttal to my answer to why Israel is important to the US? BTW, Israel is not in South America and is not a military junta engaged in terrorism, murder, and torture to keep its citizens in line. There really is no analagy between Israel's democratic process and Chile's. We also supported Saadam Hussein if you want to follow this route, although I still have no idea what the relevance is.
- Egypt/arabs, lol...... go back to school.
Sorry you let 2Thick use the shared brain today you half wit? Read the posts, read the CIA site, Egyptians ARE Arabs you stupid fuck. And if that's the best you can do, you better ask 2Thick to loan you the brain for your next retort.
- also the Ol' "I made more than last year", "my dick is bigger than yours....blablabla....". It's all internet. You could be another momma boy like Captain Insano....who knows...
It's true on both counts. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry (for this entire thread for that matter). And BTW- I don't need to prove shit to you. Enough people here know me and what I do and who I am to know that not one word of what I post is BS. That's the reason that people like you and Fonz get over so well with me.
- ALso neither me nor 2Thick are 100% French Canadians. Once again get your facts straight. And I will comment anything I want. Not happy ? Go on Triedia.
What does this have to do with the fact that you ARE French Canadian you're still a fucking Socialist Frenchie. What are you, 73% French Canadian? Fuck you. Give 73% of your $10-an-hour, 40 hour-a-week, sleeping-on-the-job income to taxes so that you feel you have the right to moan and groan about not enough social wealfare programs. Move to Cuba if you like it so much, or better yet, stay on an all French Canadian board. No wonder you motherfuckers wanted to secede.
- Owned ? Lol......so Egyptians are arabs .......lol SInce jews are known for being intelligent people, I believe you're the dumbest jew I've ever seen.
I'm tired of retyping the same stuff over and over for you morons. So I'll just summarize:

Egyptians=Arabs. Learn to read you stupid fuck, then go learn some geography. Oh, and learn how to spell and type; it makes you appear even more ignorant than your words alone do.

Dumbest Jew? That whole sentence doesn't even begin to make sense, you racist Fuck. See previous comments vis-Ă -vis fucking MP5.

Try learning the art of debate. First you address the opposition's facts. That is, unless you have no valid response for them. Then you can try to attack their personal beliefs. As you can see, I've once again had ample time to do both.

By the way I love the way that, once again, none of you could use the single brain you all seem to share to respond to my overall statements challenging Dballer's original post. Instead you try to pick (incorrectly, I might add) to semantics such as Egyptians being Arabs and my being Jewish despite the fact that I have not offered up even one piece of so-called "Jewish propaganda" to make my case.

Maybe you should try changing the subject over on Triedia; they might not catch on there.
 
Egyptions are not ethnically Arab. Here is what the CIA says the ethnic make-up of Egypt is:
Ethnic groups:
Eastern Hamitic stock (Egyptians, Bedouins, and Berbers) 99%, Greek, Nubian, Armenian, other European (primarily Italian and French) 1%


No where does it say ARAB. Jews are Semites...JUST LIKE Palestinians. Does that make Jews ARAB? I think not, so Egyptions are not ARAB either.
 
1. You are wrong. Your own post proves it. Eastern Hamitic stock (Egyptians, Bedouins, and Berbers) 99%THOSE ARE ARABS.

2. Still not addressing the principal issue I see.
 
thebabydoc said:
1. You are wrong. Your own post proves it. Eastern Hamitic stock (Egyptians, Bedouins, and Berbers) 99%THOSE ARE ARABS.

2. Still not addressing the principal issue I see.

Berbers are not Arab. An Arab is an Arab.

Okay, then you are an Arab, too. According to your definition, since Palestinians are Arab and Palestianians are Semetic, then logic would conclude that since Jews are Semetic, then Jews are Arab.

PROOF

Encarta.com Berbers

Article—Encarta Encyclopedia

Berber, language and people of certain native, non-Arab tribes inhabiting large sections of North Africa. Berbers are sparely built and range in skin...
 
posthuman said:
what is a "jew" anyway?a race or a religion?or just a superior human being?God's chosen people?what?

Jew=Semite

Almost all Jews are supposed to come from the son of Abraham...so all from one line.

I am not sure if that is true today, but Jews do not like to invite in converts and like to marry within the religion.

BTW- All Arabs are supposed to come from another son of Abraham, so Jews and Arabs are cousins.
 
the following is a summarized list of ownage from this post:

thebabydoc: owns mp5, dballer, 2thick
stumpy: owns 2thick



and i still own fonz
 
Hey! I own fonz too, and I owned him first. Don't forget that.

2Thick:
Enough of this Arab bullshit. I'm still waiting...
2Thick said:
WTF!!! Did babydoc delete his post. I was about to reply to his oh so enlightening ramble... You scared of a reply?
We've all been waiting for your brilliant response to my "ramble".
Let me repost it for you since that was yesterday...
Why would any logical person attempt to debate with such sound logic as that presented by this circle-jerk of geniuses?

This should be retitled the Dballer/2thick/MP5 stroke-off thread.

Here's what you asked for. You are such anti-semites that you don't even see the hypocrisy any more. Let me be the first to stand up and say WHAT FUCKING HYPOCRITES you are.

How easily and quickly you are to point to actions indisputably encouraged and sanctioned by most of the Arab-Muslim world and say that they merely represent the actions of "a few" radical Muslims and that they should not be extrapolated to represent the entire culture, yet the actions of ONE Israeli company represents all of Israel as well as Judiasm?

One more time...Hypocrite anti-semites.

Like a dog with a bone or a liberal with an agenda, it's impressive how you are conveniently absent from the discussion the gazillion times the shoe is on the other foot. Dballer, 2Thick, and MP5 in bed together? What could have caused something like this? Nothing short of Israel-bashing.

Sounds to most intelligent individuals more like these PARTICULAR Israelis were engaging in the oldest business model known to man- CAPITALISM. They were selling a highly-valued commodity (intelligence) to the highest bidder. Clearly this espionage WAS NOT AT THE BEHEST OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. Rather, it was the action of individuals out for one thing and one thing only...(three guesses $$$$$$$. And the Israeli government really doesn't need an extra $100,000 that this information might sell for. "Res ipso loquitor" is the legal term I believe.

The article pretty much proves they WEREN'T representing Israel because if they did, the information would have been given to and used (as previously) solely by Israel (something which has undeniably happened in past with proven Israeli-American spies- I won't give you the info for ammo if you don't already know it but their last name ended in "-berg" LOL).

What, maybe you think there are no other allies that spy on one another? Please don't make me laugh. It happens with EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. The difference (or similarity in this case) is that the espionage information is not used AGAINST your allies but rather to "keep tabs" on them. Furthermore, the media and the government pretty much do all they can to sweep such news under the rug because it a) is embarassing and b) needlessly weakens the strength of alliances.

Sorry to have ruined your circle-jerk, guys.

Now go ahead and refute that when you guys finish cleaning each other up.
 
I am owned? I present FACTS to babyjew and he replies with comments like "nuh uh, you are stupid". Ummmm...ok, that makes me owned. Babyjew, you are a typical Dem, you argue when presented facts, but do not provide any of your own.
 
thebabydoc said:
Nice argument. Point made. My argument sucks and my facts are all false. You and MP5 should go and fuck yourselves, you racist anti-semitic fuck. typical
And your point is...? Is this your well-thought out rebuttal to my answer to why Israel is important to the US? BTW, Israel is not in South America and is not a military junta engaged in terrorism, murder, and torture to keep its citizens in line. There really is no analagy between Israel's democratic process and Chile's. We also supported Saadam Hussein if you want to follow this route, although I still have no idea what the relevance is.
Sorry you let 2Thick use the shared brain today you half wit? Read the posts, read the CIA site, Egyptians ARE Arabs you stupid fuck. And if that's the best you can do, you better ask 2Thick to loan you the brain for your next retort.
It's true on both counts. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry (for this entire thread for that matter). And BTW- I don't need to prove shit to you. Enough people here know me and what I do and who I am to know that not one word of what I post is BS. That's the reason that people like you and Fonz get over so well with me.
What does this have to do with the fact that you ARE French Canadian you're still a fucking Socialist Frenchie. What are you, 73% French Canadian? Fuck you. Give 73% of your $10-an-hour, 40 hour-a-week, sleeping-on-the-job income to taxes so that you feel you have the right to moan and groan about not enough social wealfare programs. Move to Cuba if you like it so much, or better yet, stay on an all French Canadian board. No wonder you motherfuckers wanted to secede.
I'm tired of retyping the same stuff over and over for you morons. So I'll just summarize:

Egyptians=Arabs. Learn to read you stupid fuck, then go learn some geography. Oh, and learn how to spell and type; it makes you appear even more ignorant than your words alone do.

Dumbest Jew? That whole sentence doesn't even begin to make sense, you racist Fuck. See previous comments vis-Ă -vis fucking MP5.

Try learning the art of debate. First you address the opposition's facts. That is, unless you have no valid response for them. Then you can try to attack their personal beliefs. As you can see, I've once again had ample time to do both.

By the way I love the way that, once again, none of you could use the single brain you all seem to share to respond to my overall statements challenging Dballer's original post. Instead you try to pick (incorrectly, I might add) to semantics such as Egyptians being Arabs and my being Jewish despite the fact that I have not offered up even one piece of so-called "Jewish propaganda" to make my case.

Maybe you should try changing the subject over on Triedia; they might not catch on there.



Once again you showed your ignorance. So according to you Canada is a FRENCH socialized country ? Poor dumbass, there's around 7 millions of french canadians (6 in Quebec, 1 in the rest) on a population of 30 millions. The rest are mostly from british origins. Also in many US States, incaome taxes are similar or even higher. BTW if you like ISrael so much why dont you move there with your fellow rats ?
 
MP5 said:
I am owned? I present FACTS to babyjew and he replies with comments like "nuh uh, you are stupid". Ummmm...ok, that makes me owned. Babyjew, you are a typical Dem, you argue when presented facts, but do not provide any of your own.

lol and like all those lying assholes on the board, he makes 100k a year, I'm sure he's going out with Jenna Jameson and has 2 Ferraris..... lol
 
Babyjew, more facts to back up my arguement, where are your's? And, why haven't you answered my question as to what you think the underlying cause for the WTC attacks was?

"The discovery of the "death books" in a Soviet archive lends yet more credence to the revisionist position that there were no mass gassings at Auschwitz. As you will see in the table below, not all the death books were found, and so some of the data must be extrapolated. For reasons of time, I have not shown the methods of extrapolating the missing data, but neither the extrapolated data (nor the method used in the extrapolation) are needed to illustrate the revisionist viewpoint.

Consider the years 1942 and 1943, for which we have nearly complete records in the death books. We know that during these years, there were typhus epidemics that ravaged the camps. Although the Nazi high command ordered that all steps be taken to end the epidemics and save prisoner lives, this same high command also planned to greatly expand the size of the Auschwitz camp (in itself an argument against the extermination thesis). Using as their basis the number of deaths in 1942 and 1943, Nazi planners set out to build sufficient crematory capacity to handle the "normal" number of deaths through typhus at the camp. In these plans, we see that the number of crematories planned for Auschwitz was actually lower than the number planned for "ordinary" camps (that is, camps not now claimed to have been extermination centers) such as Dachau and Buchenwald, in terms of the ratio of corpses per crematory.

Thus, the crematories that were built would have had no excess capacity to handle the hundreds of thousands (let alone millions) of victims claimed to have been killed in mass exterminations. As it has been pointed out, if there were in fact homicidal gas chambers for mass murder, they would have had to have as an accomplice enough crematory capacity to dispose of the corpses. Without the crematory capacity, there could have been no mass gassing program.

For those who cannot view the table below, the bottom line is that there are 67,227 recorded deaths in the partial set of Auschwitz death registers found (or at least made available) so far. To this are added an additional 63.069 extrapolated deaths, for a total death toll at Auschwitz/Birkenau of 130,296. Of course, toward the end of the war when conditions were chaotic, there could easily have been additional unrecorded deaths, but almost certainly the total death toll at Auschwitz/Birkenau is less than 150,000.
 
MP5 said:
I am owned? I present FACTS to babyjew and he replies with comments like "nuh uh, you are stupid".
Sure, if that's what the voices in your head are telling you, those are facts you posted, not the propaganda of hate groups.
Ummmm...ok, that makes me owned.
No, you're owned because you are a bloated, pea-brained, redneck bigot with the IQ of a melted cheese sandwich. Shit, my dogs own you.
Babyjew, you are a typical Dem, you argue when presented facts, but do not provide any of your own.
Sure, especially when your facts are pulled from the skinhead manual of Nazi propaganda. BTW, I think you are so enamored by my superior intellect and the ability to present actual FACTS (e.g. the number of deaths in the holocaust, the number of years ago 1967 represents, the fact that not one of you has responded to my confirmable facts) that all you can now do is continue to post anti-semitic statements "Babyjew", "Jew speech", "Shylock" and anti-semitic propaganda such as your last, most recent, excerpt from The Nazi Handbook of Jewish Memorabilia Stolen During the Holocaust". All the while claiming them to be facts. Hard to argue with that kind of superior intellect and logic.

Let me address that one first. If you think that "discovered" Soviet and Nazi "deathbooks" are more accurate than the census and birth records of a dozen or more European countries, records which contained birth dates as well as the religions of each and every mother, father, and child born into each country, city by city, village by village...well there you have your answer. I'm sure you also believe that the Nazi's diligently noted down the names and possesions of each and every person that they summarily executed by the side of the road and dumped into mass graves in those "deathbooks." You don't kill 22 Million people by keeping good records, no one wants to know or remember those numbers. A very well known expression is:
"Those who do not remember history are forever destined to repeat it"
That is the hope of your fellow hate-mongers- that by your ignorance, you will repeat the gravest, most egregious, and horrific errors in the history of mankind. Racists and bigots like you, Dballer, and Manny are like the brainwashed. You only see what you want to see.
Here is yet another response to your "facts" in case you missed it:
Originally posted by the owner of MP5, 2Thick,Manny78,Fonz, and Dballer as well as any other bigoted, racist fuck stupid enough to argue with him


I know of no "facts" that include the words "gigantic, swollen parasite." These are inflammatory and invective words used to express SUBJECTIVE opinions, not facts. Your entire quotation is so flawed on so many levels that it isn't even worth a comment other than to ask the obvious question: "what white supremacist handbook did you pull it out of?"
It is impossible for me to address your "facts" in any other way because they are nothing more than the fabrication of neo-Nazi's and racist bigots.

I will no longer respond to you. You make me sick and are a disgrace to everyone on this board. We are all just a bit stupider for having read your words. Go waste bandwidth on Triedia.

Fuck you Fuck You Fuck you

AND DIE.
 
thebabydoc said:
Nice argument. Point made. My argument sucks and my facts are all false. You and MP5 should go and fuck yourselves, you racist anti-semitic fuck. typical


DAMN!!! I said again and again.. I was talking about Israel... I could give two shit about what the people who live there are. The way it looks to me, they are terrorists. Liberty did happen 35 years ago.. does that mean we should forget about it? I think Israel brings up some stale facts too...

Why is it that the mere mention of the word Israel or Jew brings out such slander and name calling?


If Iraq had some spies over here would you be so quick to use such words as anti-semite against me for posting the article?
 
manny78 said:


lol and like all those lying assholes on the board, he makes 100k a year, I'm sure he's going out with Jenna Jameson and has 2 Ferraris..... lol

well I do not agree with his stance on Israel.. but I am sure he is not lying about his job and possesions.
 
dballer said:


well I do not agree with his stance on Israel.. but I am sure he is not lying about his job and possesions.

I'm suspicious. I've seen too many "Ted Truner" on the boards.... :)
 
I am FAR from racist.. Mr I HATE ARABS!!!!

I was brainwashed when I thought that Israel was an ally... but not anymore.

I do not see why it is soo hard to see the truth of that country? All of the facts are right there in front of us.. I guess it is because they are not on the news huh?
 
thebabydoc said:
That is the hope of your fellow hate-mongers- that by your ignorance, you will repeat the gravest, most egregious, and horrific errors in the history of mankind. Racists and bigots like you, Dballer, and Manny are like the brainwashed. You only see what you want to see.
AND DIE.

it isn't the gravest. Cause jews were killed doesn't mean it was most horrific. In fact, Mao and Staline killed more people in the 20th century than anybody else. Including jews (Staline..). Oh but wait a minute they were communist so they must be forgiven no ?

Thank you for taking care of me. We'll all die one day. So no need to remind me that. Have a nice one in the oven.
 
dballer said:


I hear ya... you NAZI you!!!!

thnak you !!!

sexyhimmler.jpg
 
manny78 said:

lol and like all those lying assholes on the board, he makes 100k a year, I'm sure he's going out with Jenna Jameson and has 2 Ferraris..... lol
Actually, I PAID over $100,000 in taxes last year, I live with Kel, the most "famous" girl I dated was Kim Richards (that girl from theEscape From Witch Mountain series, although I did go out with Molly Ringwald once), I wouldn't touch Jenna with my ten foot pole, and I didn't like the Ferrari F355 Spider so I bought a 2002 911 C4S to go with my Hummer H1. And dat's da fact, Jack...
....off.

Check out the avatar (temp only); perhaps you'd like me to be sitting on them with a sign that says "Fuck you, you loser Manny" on them, 'cause I could do that for you, you hater.OWNED

BTW- If the taxes and everything else is so great in Canada, why are all your hockey players and teams as well as so many of your citizens moving here? At least be proud to be a socialist Frenchie bastard if you're going to argue and espouse their beliefs.


Dballer:
A great percentage of Jews now in Israel originally emigrated back there from Europe in the late '40's and early '50's as well as from the Soviet Union in the mid-'70's as well as upon its breakup in the '80's and are of European origin.

If you want to call them Arabs for your convenience, you may, but hating any single ethnic group is still racism.

Could you safely say "I hate all radical Muslims?" yes, I think that's prolly ok because you are talking about a specific, well-publicized and documented set of beliefs (sort of like Liberals, Skinheads, or Neo-Nazis), but that is only my opinion.
 
manny78 said:


it isn't the gravest. Cause jews were killed doesn't mean it was most horrific. In fact, Mao and Staline killed more people in the 20th century than anybody else. Including jews (Staline..). Oh but wait a minute they were communist so they must be forgiven no ?

Thank you for taking care of me. We'll all die one day. So no need to remind me that.
Actually, the AND DIE was directed to MP5 but if you'd like, you can take it that way. And once again I'll repeat, I never once specifically mentioned the "6 Million" Jews killed; that was you all (guilty concience?) I pointed to the 22 MILLION people killed as a result of the Nazis and ethnic cleansing and hate in general.
"Those who do not remember Yugoslavia, Armenia, Somalia, etc, etc, etc... it seems we NEVER LEARN. And it's STALIN, at least know how to spell his name if you're gonna keep referencing it, and you don't really want to know how many of those were Jews.

Almost forgot...
Have a nice one in the oven.
"Keep hating, dude. It only makes you look more and more like your idol, MP5
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom