Tren first time!??!

[grkstallion76]

I am 6'2 300lbs. I am looking to do a stack of Tren and Test cyp for the first time. What would be a good mg/cc to go for per week? M W F Tren (How many cc?) And Test cyp Monday and thur (how many cc?) Please tweak if you think there is a better stack for my criteria. Looking to cut some fat and put more muscle on. Basically lean out in physique. Also should I do Tren E or Tren A?

 

[bonacris]

Whats your bodyfat

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[Jbranken]

I wouldn't cycle tren or other steroids for that matter unless you're +/-15% bodyfat.

 

[grkstallion76]

Well I know I am a bit more then 15% bf just not quiet sure how much. What would you recomend? A decent stack for muscle gains / cutting? Ive done winny and well I wasn't impressed as all the hype talk was about.!
t

 

[grkstallion76]

I am around 24-28% BF last time I checked!

 

[bonacris]

Well I know I am a bit more then 15% bf just not quiet sure how much. What would you recomend? A decent stack for muscle gains / cutting? Ive done winny and well I wasn't impressed as all the hype talk was about.!
t

What the fuck did you expect winny to do.. winny works when you're lean.

Forget the steroids and jump on threadmill.

You have no business doing steroids at 25% bf. They are not short cuts and have you any idea the harm you coukd cause yourself using steroids when you're so fat

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[fizzisnumerouno]

what the fuck did you expect winny to do.. Winny works when you're lean.

Forget the steroids and jump on threadmill.

You have no business doing steroids at 25% bf. They are not short cuts and have you any idea the harm you coukd cause yourself using steroids when you're so fat

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+1

 

[Reps For Jesus]

I think peoples numbers of body fat are a bit off. You all think that someone that is above 15% body fat is unhealthy, which is far from true. Typically athletes are in the 12-15% range, and a healthy male should be around 20%. The fact that he is nearly 300 pounds and close to a healthy body fat means he has one hell of a base. Now if he was 200 pounds at 25% body fat that would be a different story. Not every person in the world wants to be sub 10% body fat. OP just needs to realize that the higher body fat % you have, the more likely you are to experience sides, especially estrogen related once, but that can all be controlled.

Now to the OP's question. Is winstrol the only experience you have with AAS?

 

[Jbranken]

I think peoples numbers of body fat are a bit off. You all think that someone that is above 15% body fat is unhealthy, which is far from true. Typically athletes are in the 12-15% range, and a healthy male should be around 20%. The fact that he is nearly 300 pounds and close to a healthy body fat means he has one hell of a base. Now if he was 200 pounds at 25% body fat that would be a different story. Not every person in the world wants to be sub 10% body fat. OP just needs to realize that the higher body fat % you have, the more likely you are to experience sides, especially estrogen related once, but that can all be controlled.

Now to the OP's question. Is winstrol the only experience you have with AAS?

It's also very likely that his estimation of 24-28% bf is way off. He could be well above 30% at that weight. I doubt his base is that impressive at that weight, especially with no cycle history. And no one said +15% bf is unhealthy, but when you're using an aromatizing compound and a progestin on your first cycle, it becomes a health concern at a higher bf

 

[Reps For Jesus]

No, it does not become a health concern, it just becomes more of a concern. But that can be controlled.

6'2, 300, 25%

That means he would have a LBM of around 225 pounds. Very good base.

 

[ALIN]

It's my opinion TREN is best reserved for the more experienced,,,more advanced athlete.

 

[Jbranken]

No, it does not become a health concern, it just becomes more of a concern. But that can be controlled.

6'2, 300, 25%

That means he would have a LBM of around 225 pounds. Very good base.

So you're saying steroids have the same effects on someone at +25% as they do on someone sub 12%??

And once again, you're assuming his estimate of 25% is accurate.

 

[infraredline]

I think peoples numbers of body fat are a bit off. You all think that someone that is above 15% body fat is unhealthy, which is far from true. Typically athletes are in the 12-15% range, and a healthy male should be around 20%. The fact that he is nearly 300 pounds and close to a healthy body fat means he has one hell of a base. Now if he was 200 pounds at 25% body fat that would be a different story. Not every person in the world wants to be sub 10% body fat. OP just needs to realize that the higher body fat % you have, the more likely you are to experience sides, especially estrogen related once, but that can all be controlled.

Now to the OP's question. Is winstrol the only experience you have with AAS?

The idea that 20% bodyfat is healthy is and extreme flaw of our health system and goes to show how little doctors actually know. Personally I think 18% is pushing it for a healthy individual. Optimally everyone should be 10-15% to be truly healthy.

 

[Reps For Jesus]

6'2 300 25% is different than 6'2 200 25% body fat

 

[Jbranken]

6'2 300 25% is different than 6'2 200 25% body fat

Fat is fat. Steroids and High bf is more of a health concern because a fat body's organs and lipids are already strained. Adding steroids to the equation isn't wise. I'd advise the OP to get lean before touching steroids

 

[Reps For Jesus]

It's your assumption that his organs and lipids are already strained. I'm not saying that it is a good idea for him to go on cycle. But there is no reason to freak out about his current stats.

 

[Jbranken]

It's your assumption that his organs and lipids are already strained. I'm not saying that it is a good idea for him to go on cycle. But there is no reason to freak out about his current stats.

No one is freaking out. And I'm not assuming his lipids and organs are strained, that's irrefutable science. You can't carry excess fat in this way and expect your body to function optimally; that's asinine to even defend it

I'm not saying he's so obese that he's on the verge of dying, but steroids? Give me a break.

 

[grkstallion76]

Listen I didn't want dick answers. Just knowledgable ones. I've done powerlifting comps for years. I know what I'm doing! No I'm not some fat slob who thinks I should just take roids as a miracle worker. I'm not an idiot!

 

[Jbranken]

Listen I didn't want dick answers. Just knowledgable ones. I've done powerlifting comps for years. I know what I'm doing! No I'm not some fat slob who thinks I should just take roids as a miracle worker. I'm not an idiot!

Read the thread. There's knowledge all over it. You just didn't get the answer you were looking for.

Maybe reps can set you up a cycle

 

[infraredline]

Listen I didn't want dick answers. Just knowledgable ones. I've done powerlifting comps for years. I know what I'm doing! No I'm not some fat slob who thinks I should just take roids as a miracle worker. I'm not an idiot!

No body is being a dick bro, your body fat is too high to be cycling plain and simple

 

[Tectime]

Just FYI healthy body fat % varies with age also. 20 to 40 yr old males =8 to 19% 41 to 60 yr old 11 to 22% 61 to 79 = 23 to 25%. And everyone that said his bf is to high for tren is def correct. Not only a very hard compound on your body, at that high a bf you won't see the max benefits tren can do for you. It's way to harsh not to get the most out of it.

 

[grkstallion76]

Your telling me there is nothing out there good for me? I was also looking at Test e with EQ? My diet is on point just at a plateu.

 

[grkstallion76]

Just FYI healthy body fat % varies with age also. 20 to 40 yr old males =8 to 19% 41 to 60 yr old 11 to 22% 61 to 79 = 23 to 25%. And everyone that said his bf is to high for tren is def correct. Not only a very hard compound on your body, at that high a bf you won't see the max benefits tren can do for you. It's way to harsh not to get the most out of it.

Thanks! Understandable! What's your thoughts on EQ and test E?

 

[Cipp21]

Your telling me there is nothing out there good for me? I was also looking at Test e with EQ? My diet is on point just at a plateu.

They're not lying to you. We're not telling you that you "can't" do it, it's not our decision. We're just advising against you doing it. There are a lot of problems with running cycles at a high BF, many of them already stated in this thread. We're looking out for your health, no muscle gains in the world are worth risking something as priceless as that.

Your diet can't be in check with body fat at that level, and the best thing for you now is to go on a cut. Get ur BF down, and then consider running a cycle. With a high body fat the cons outweigh the pros, and the lower the body fat gives more pros than cons. You'll get much better results with lower bf and very few sides. It'll be worth the short wait, trust me.

On another note, I'm seeing way too much about "healthy" bf levels in this thread. Being healthy is being what doctors consider normal... We are not normal, we are bodybuilders and power lifters, we strive to be better than "normal". It doesn't matter how "healthy" you are, synthetic hormones are not healthy for the human body, that is why we must be in elite physical condition, to ensure our body's can steroids it and recover from them. A "healthy" body fat doesn't mean you can safely run steroids...

 

[Tectime]

I don't really like EQ myself, but tes e is of course GREAT! If you're asking me if either would work for you ? You bet they will. The problem you will have is tes atos into estrogen very easily when your bf is higher. Your estrogen is going to skyrocket along with blood pressure. Starting with high bf is not recommended but it will still do what steroids do it just takes longer then if you're already at the point of fitness where you truly dont think you can go any farther.( right you have to be very discipled. And right I don't know anybody like that either) so if you are sure you want to proceed. I would go with just tes. See what that does. You probly need a good dose due to your size. And really watch your blood pressure close. Really dude try to get your bf as low as you can through cardio ( yea I know. But it's your heart dude take care of it) tes is going to stress you some be ready and pay attention to your body. That's why only tes to start. So you see what it does.

 

[Tectime]

They're not lying to you. We're not telling you that you "can't" do it, it's not our decision. We're just advising against you doing it. There are a lot of problems with running cycles at a high BF, many of them already stated in this thread. We're looking out for your health, no muscle gains in the world are worth risking something as priceless as that.

Your diet can't be in check with body fat at that level, and the best thing for you now is to go on a cut. Get ur BF down, and then consider running a cycle. With a high body fat the cons outweigh the pros, and the lower the body fat gives more pros than cons. You'll get much better results with lower bf and very few sides. It'll be worth the short wait, trust me.

On another note, I'm seeing way too much about "healthy" bf levels in this thread. Being healthy is being what doctors consider normal... We are not normal, we are bodybuilders and power lifters, we strive to be better than "normal". It doesn't matter how "healthy" you are, synthetic hormones are not healthy for the human body, that is why we must be in elite physical condition, to ensure our body's can steroids it and recover from them. A "healthy" body fat doesn't mean you can safely run steroids...

Right ! ^^^^^

 

[grkstallion76]

Good looking out guys.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Good looking out guys.

Post a pic bro. Blur your face or whatever. Give us a good look at where you are at.

If you want to cut bro there is no magic answer other than strict diet and cardio. That's where its at. Running a small amount of just test like 250mg wk would be plenty to allow you to hang on to a lot of muscle mass while cutting on a calorie deficit.

 

[stevesmi]

here is my shredder stack.. get on it.. it is 100% non suppressive and safe for someone who is overweight. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...k-shredder-stack-non-suppressive-1279153.html

you say you are a powerlifter, here is your problem.. if you start losing weight I don't care what the situation is you are going to lose some strength too, hence why they have weight classes in powerlifting.. you should of never let yourself get that fat to begin with, you either let ego cloud your judgement... or you just didn't care.

and I agree post up a pic if you want to know your body fat. to me 25% body fat is way too high for steroids, and for tren its downright stupid because you are just going to feel like shit the entire cycle. yes not everyone cares about being single digit body fat.. I am 12.5% myself and that is fine because I can still look good while being strong in the gym so I am happy.. if I go back to being on stage again (not looking to do that anytime soon) then I will worry about dropping to single digits.. however if my body fat starts creeping over 15% that is a red flag that I need to get it back down.

 

[BobMarshal]

What the fuck did you expect winny to do.. winny works when you're lean.

Forget the steroids and jump on threadmill.

You have no business doing steroids at 25% bf. They are not short cuts and have you any idea the harm you coukd cause yourself using steroids when you're so fat

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BS
Tren will cut you down. Test and tren was my first cycle. I lost a ton of fat and was very lean after. But diet and cardio is a good idea. That's what I did and it worked great.

 

[bonacris]

BS
Tren will cut you down. Test and tren was my first cycle. I lost a ton of fat and was very lean after. But diet and cardio is a good idea. That's what I did and it worked great.

If you're 25% bf just skipping McDonald's and going on a threadmill will help you lose weight. If you're looking to go from 10% to 6% then tren will help.. if you're fat then you need to work to lose weight and not be relying on compounds like tren to do the work for you

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[BobMarshal]

If you're 25% bf just skipping McDonald's and going on a threadmill will help you lose weight. If you're looking to go from 10% to 6% then tren will help.. if you're fat then you need to work to lose weight and not be relying on compounds like tren to do the work for you

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You make far to many assumptions. Maybe you eat at McDonalds.
I ate at some of the best restaurants in the world. Now I live in the far north, can hear the wind howling outside right now, and there is nothing fresh to eat. By the time it gets here it has frozen on the truck. Absolutely sucks. It is the major topic of discussion around here. The only people I know that have fresh veggies have many green houses.
And still they are small but ripe. If I want fresh fish I have to catch it my self. If I am real lucky I can get an elk tag. One elk will fill the freezer but it's a shit load of work getting it home. I don't have one of those little 4x4 pieces of crap. I do it by hand or boat.

One more thing. I am now 57 when I was around 40 I had a physical. My BMI was high so they assumed I would be diabetic or at least per-diabetic. I was neither. So because one is fat doesn't mean one is sedentary. On Mon, Wed and Sat I lifted for two hours. Rested for about a half hour and did modern, jazz or ballet. I liked being pumped for the girls. Then on Tues and Thru I would do two hours of Kodokan Goju Ryu Karate. And on Fridays I would show up at my old Tai Chi school and help lead the advanced class.

So don't assume I am like you. I ate at the finest restaurants in the SFBA.

 

[bonacris]

You make far to many assumptions. Maybe you eat at McDonalds.
I ate at some of the best restaurants in the world. Now I live in the far north, can hear the wind howling outside right now, and there is nothing fresh to eat. By the time it gets here it has frozen on the truck. Absolutely sucks. It is the major topic of discussion around here. The only people I know that have fresh veggies have many green houses.
And still they are small but ripe. If I want fresh fish I have to catch it my self. If I am real lucky I can get an elk tag. One elk will fill the freezer but it's a shit load of work getting it home. I don't have one of those little 4x4 pieces of crap. I do it by hand or boat.

One more thing. I am now 57 when I was around 40 I had a physical. My BMI was high so they assumed I would be diabetic or at least per-diabetic. I was neither. So because one is fat doesn't mean one is sedentary. On Mon, Wed and Sat I lifted for two hours. Rested for about a half hour and did modern, jazz or ballet. I liked being pumped for the girls. Then on Tues and Thru I would do two hours of Kodokan Goju Ryu Karate. And on Fridays I would show up at my old Tai Chi school and help lead the advanced class.

So don't assume I am like you. I ate at the finest restaurants in the SFBA.

Thats is one of the coolest stories I've ever read but the fact is if someone is over weight then they shouldnt be taking steroids to lose that weight.. thats a fucking cop out..

Btw I'm not 25% bf. I havent even seen 15% in over 7 years so I've worked hard before I used steroids. But hey you eat at the finest restaurants so you must be doing something right

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[fizzisnumerouno]

Thats is one of the coolest stories I've ever read but the fact is if someone is over weight then they shouldnt be taking steroids to lose that weight.. thats a fucking cop out..

Btw I'm not 25% bf. I havent even seen 15% in over 7 years so I've worked hard before I used steroids. But hey you eat at the finest restaurants so you must be doing something right

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I agree. 25% is 25%. Whether it's a lineman build or couch potato. It's fundamental endocrinology. Adipose breeds estrogen, excessive estrogen breeds cell mutation which is a nice recipe for gyno or cancers. Sure, there are some people who do sauce even though they are fat and may be success stories.... But let's be real here and acknowledge how few and far between those stories are.

Steroids are safe and effective for people who work hard and actualized themselves kinesthetically. Unless you're an NFL lineman, no excuse for steroids.... With the exception of lower dosed TRT.

 

[stevesmi]

You make far to many assumptions. Maybe you eat at McDonalds.
I ate at some of the best restaurants in the world. Now I live in the far north, can hear the wind howling outside right now, and there is nothing fresh to eat. By the time it gets here it has frozen on the truck. Absolutely sucks. It is the major topic of discussion around here. The only people I know that have fresh veggies have many green houses.
And still they are small but ripe. If I want fresh fish I have to catch it my self. If I am real lucky I can get an elk tag. One elk will fill the freezer but it's a shit load of work getting it home. I don't have one of those little 4x4 pieces of crap. I do it by hand or boat.

One more thing. I am now 57 when I was around 40 I had a physical. My BMI was high so they assumed I would be diabetic or at least per-diabetic. I was neither. So because one is fat doesn't mean one is sedentary. On Mon, Wed and Sat I lifted for two hours. Rested for about a half hour and did modern, jazz or ballet. I liked being pumped for the girls. Then on Tues and Thru I would do two hours of Kodokan Goju Ryu Karate. And on Fridays I would show up at my old Tai Chi school and help lead the advanced class.

So don't assume I am like you. I ate at the finest restaurants in the SFBA.

I take it that there aren't many bodybuilders that come from your area lol. if you don't have access to fresh food, only frozen food then you are fucked.. either move or forget about bodybuilding.

you aren't going to build a nice body eating frozen tv dinners .. you need WHOLE foods. eggs, veggies, fruits, lean meats, etc etc. you can walk around walmart and see all the fat people who only have frozen boxes in their carts and see what kind of bodies they have.. there is a reason for that.. its just processed junk and salt

 

[ozzman69]

No body is being a dick bro, your body fat is too high to be cycling plain and simple

That's bull man I used to maintain a higher bf % and I have probably done more cycles on higher bf than anyone on this forum as long as you take precautions and know what you're doing you can control anything not everyone wants to be ripped to shreds don't get me wrong I cut to 10-12% sometimes but I'm 6'2 255 20% right now and bulking on test deca and drol I'm 30 and I been on gear since I was 17 (not smart I know you learn from your mistakes) but if he wants to cycle and is a powerlifter I see nothing wrong with it they are performance enhancing drugs no matter what kind of athlete you are powerlifters have higher bf than bodybuilders and they cycle all the time so you're going to here and tell a powerlifter he's to fat for gear? I think not.....

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[burnthiscorpse]

You make far to many assumptions. Maybe you eat at McDonalds.
I ate at some of the best restaurants in the world. Now I live in the far north, can hear the wind howling outside right now, and there is nothing fresh to eat. By the time it gets here it has frozen on the truck. Absolutely sucks. It is the major topic of discussion around here. The only people I know that have fresh veggies have many green houses.
And still they are small but ripe. If I want fresh fish I have to catch it my self. If I am real lucky I can get an elk tag. One elk will fill the freezer but it's a shit load of work getting it home. I don't have one of those little 4x4 pieces of crap. I do it by hand or boat.

One more thing. I am now 57 when I was around 40 I had a physical. My BMI was high so they assumed I would be diabetic or at least per-diabetic. I was neither. So because one is fat doesn't mean one is sedentary. On Mon, Wed and Sat I lifted for two hours. Rested for about a half hour and did modern, jazz or ballet. I liked being pumped for the girls. Then on Tues and Thru I would do two hours of Kodokan Goju Ryu Karate. And on Fridays I would show up at my old Tai Chi school and help lead the advanced class.

So don't assume I am like you. I ate at the finest restaurants in the SFBA.

Cool story bro.

 

[BobMarshal]

I take it that there aren't many bodybuilders that come from your area lol. if you don't have access to fresh food, only frozen food then you are fucked.. either move or forget about bodybuilding.

you aren't going to build a nice body eating frozen tv dinners .. you need WHOLE foods. eggs, veggies, fruits, lean meats, etc etc. you can walk around walmart and see all the fat people who only have frozen boxes in their carts and see what kind of bodies they have.. there is a reason for that.. its just processed junk and salt

That's true. But there are grizzly bears and wolves. One of my neighbours bought a calf and was going to fatten it up. He hadn't fenced in his property yet so he stacked the calf. Got up the next morning and the wolves had eaten it.

And please don't lecture me on what I need to eat it's just to damn insulting.

 

[fizzisnumerouno]

That's true. But there are grizzly bears and wolves. One of my neighbours bought a calf and was going to fatten it up. He hadn't fenced in his property yet so he stacked the calf. Got up the next morning and the wolves had eaten it.

And please don't lecture me on what I need to eat it's just to damn insulting.

Nice proverb. However, it's irrelevant to this conversation. No matter how many times you put a pig in a prom dress, it's gonna be a dirty animal in a clean prom dress. Compounds that just so happen to aromatize, do so because of (aroma) (t) (ase), the ase/enzyme in this circumstance.

Since you probably already know that ase is the suffix for an enzyme and that enzymes are like puzzle pieces, I won't get too caught up in this. I will emphasize that this one thrives in bodyfat >18% and taking any AAS, especially your desired compound, is going to garner a result counter to which you think you'll achieve. I also feel compelled to point out that 18% is being conservative as most of our constituents and anybody with a biomechanical/kinese/exPhys background is gonna say 12-15% is the max bodyfat threshold. It's basic physiology.

While a well-respected bro on this site like Stevesmi is seemingly flaming you; he/we're/us are actually giving you a nickels worth of free advice. What you do with it is your decision.

 

[stevesmi]

And please don't lecture me on what I need to eat it's just to damn insulting.

diet is the #1 thing buddy. hate to break it to you

now some guys have legitimate health problems which keeps them from reaching low body fat goals, however for the most part a proper diet and you will never even sniff 20% body fat as a male.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

diet is the #1 thing buddy. hate to break it to you

now some guys have legitimate health problems which keeps them from reaching low body fat goals, however for the most part a proper diet and you will never even sniff 20% body fat as a male.

Some guys also have a bad case of knowitallism and attitude problems that keep them from reaching their goals. They ask for advice then bitch about the answers they get when its painfully obvious that some of the people answering the question have infinitely more knowledge and practical application. But that's just some people.
Just sayin.

 

[fizzisnumerouno]

Some guys also have a bad case of knowitallism and attitude problems that keep them from reaching their goals. They ask for advice then bitch about the answers they get when its painfully obvious that some of the people answering the question have infinitely more knowledge and practical application. But that's just some people.
Just sayin.

Some guys have a right to this disposition. When you eat at all of the best restaurants in the bay area you can talk.