Transexuals...

[the_clockwork]

Do you believe these men are hard wired from birth to want to be female and vis versa or do you think it develops throughout their lives? What do you think some of the causes of this progressive development is?

 

[The Wenis]

chemical misfires in the brain. perkele could answer all your questions about it. those chems made him have his peewee chopped years ago.

 

[perkele]

This thread is worthless without pics!

 

[Scotsman]

This thread is worthless without pics!

Transexuals perk not transvestites. Now put it away.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[SLAYER69!]

Genetic

 

[jd_uk]

IMO it's environmental, as is sexuality.

 

[the_clockwork]

I recently read an article about a 12 year old boy having a sex change b/c he was "hard wired" to be a female. His parents supported this decision because he liked playing with dolls. Seems a bit excessive, maybe a phase?

 

[txbondsman]

genetic for the most part, some may be from life expereinces, i.e. incest, severe psychological trama from abuse, etc. But I have seen studies that show hormonal levels at different times during pregnancy cause homosexuality. I have had gay friends in the past tell me that they always were the way they are from their earliest memories.
Hell, ask some of the "I'm gay, I'm proud, SAY IT LOUD!" peeps on here, not an ol' redneck like me....

 

[MichaelScott]

this is the one time i wish yg wasn't banned he could give vaulable insight

 

[Becoming]

studies that show hormonal levels at different times during pregnancy cause homosexuality

This is what most of the literature I have seen says as well....

It is a product of various hormones in utero for the most part (exceptions to every rule though)

 

[the_clockwork]

genetic for the most part, some may be from life expereinces, i.e. incest, severe psychological trama from abuse, etc. But I have seen studies that show hormonal levels at different times during pregnancy cause homosexuality. I have had gay friends in the past tell me that they always were the way they are from their earliest memories.
Hell, ask some of the "I'm gay, I'm proud, SAY IT LOUD!" peeps on here, not an ol' redneck like me....

I just find it hard to believe genetics.. I have seen the studies but they are always oversea studies from "subpar" scientists. I think the difference is very minimial when comparing testostrone and estrogen levels, hardly enough to make a man feel like a woman.. Just my opinion

 

[Becoming]

Also in regards to the hormones the exact timing of various hormones in utero is supposed to be key in relation to brain/neural development.

 

[blueta2]

The CFO of my company is a transexual. He came out last year. And I work for a large multi million $ co. and he was totally accepted by the owners and staff!
He went "away" for a few months and came back as a gorgeous woman. It was weird to work with her at first. But yeah she's happier than she's ever been. I have NO DOUBT she was always a female trapped in a man's body!
She found her true self and it shows!

 

[the_clockwork]

the sports writer for the LA times just announced he/ she was a transexual

 

[jd_uk]

I just find it hard to believe genetics.. I have seen the studies but they are always oversea studies from "subpar" scientists. I think the difference is very minimial when comparing testostrone and estrogen levels, hardly enough to make a man feel like a woman.. Just my opinion

Yep. There are plenty of studies that suggest there may be a gene but no evidence that comes close to being proof.

I don't think we'll ever know. If it is environmental (which i believe it is) the it could only take one small factor to change the way a person develops sexually.

Why do some people developed strange fetishes? I bet most can't explain them. Probably because the environmental factor that has caused that fetish to develop happened at a very early age. So a man who has always had a strong desire to be dominated by a woman (as an example) might claim to have had this fetish for as long as he can remember even though it was triggered by an event at any early age.

Nothing to me suggests that any aspect of sexuality is genetic.

 

[txbondsman]

Also in regards to the hormones the exact timing of various hormones in utero is supposed to be key in relation to brain/neural development.

this is what I have read too... also that the brain is wired differently, I watched on show that had cat scans showing the different parts of the brain that were active for different stimulus, they differed form hetro men. (there's nothing wrong with that....lol)

you have the best avis and pics, the ones that I find are are too big for avis it says, and I don't know how to resize them... I enjoy your's.

 

[Becoming]

you have the best avis and pics, the ones that I find are are too big for avis it says, and I don't know how to resize them... I enjoy your's.

thanks man. she is nice to look at for sure. I keep all my old ones in my gallery.

 

[Oceano]

I recently read an article about a 12 year old boy having a sex change b/c he was "hard wired" to be a female. His parents supported this decision because he liked playing with dolls. Seems a bit excessive, maybe a phase?

having second thoughts?

 

[jd_uk]

this is what I have read too... also that the brain is wired differently, I watched on show that had cat scans showing the different parts of the brain that were active for different stimulus, they differed form hetro men. (there's nothing wrong with that....lol)

For me that doesn't mean anything though, as i'm sure that the brain adapts according to how you live.

 

[bluepeter]

For me that doesn't mean anything though, as i'm sure that the brain adapts according to how you live.

Yeah, evidence doesn't mean anything. It's easier just to believe people choose to be gay.

 

[Becoming]

For me that doesn't mean anything though, as i'm sure that the brain adapts according to how you live.

I agree environment will play some role in shaping the final product -

but think about this - a kid (who is gay but doesn't know it yet) is brought up all macho - it isn't going to change the most basic sexual drives he experience (he will still be attracted to men, consciously or not)

his environment will however affect how he expresses those drives

a kid (who is straight) is brought up say in a society where homosexuality is the norm... his attraction to women doesn't go away - just he will express it differently

The development of the brain will determine the basic parameters - environment will determine how they are expressed. To someone outside this person it might appear that an event caused them to "turn gay" or "turn transexual" - when in reality it only reshaped how they experss their pre-existing internal drive..


Saying that brain development or the biology/chemistry of it is less important than environment argues that if you catch it early enough you can change the outcome - which has been proven wrong many times - in fact trying to make individuals repress or otherwise deny the internal drives has proven to have disasterous psychological consequences for individuals who were treated as such in the past.

 

[bluepeter]

I agree environment will play some role in shaping the final product -

but think about this - a kid (who is gay but doesn't know it yet) is brought up all macho - it isn't going to change the most basic sexual drives he experience (he will still be attracted to men, consciously or not)

his environment will however affect how he expresses those drives

a kid (who is straight) is brought up say in a society where homosexuality is the norm... his attraction to women doesn't go away - just he will express it differently

The development of the brain will determine the basic parameters - environment will determine how they are expressed. To someone outside this person it might appear that an event caused them to "turn gay" or "turn transexual" - when in reality it only reshaped how they experss their pre-existing internal drive..


Saying that brain development or the biology/chemistry of it is less important than environment argues that if you catch it early enough you can change the outcome - which has been proven wrong many times - in fact trying to make individuals repress or otherwise deny the internal drives has proven to have disasterous psychological consequences for individuals who were treated as such in the past.

Exactly.

 

[jd_uk]

Yeah, evidence doesn't mean anything. It's easier just to believe people choose to be gay.

I didn't say or think either of those things.

If you understood what i said... I believe it has been shown that the brain adapts and changes acording to how we live. For example somebody who works with logic and numbers every day would probably have a more developed part of the brain that deals with logic.

So if a gay man acts/thinks in a way that is different to a straight man and consequently lives/acts in a different way then that might be why the brain of a homosexual man has supposedly been shown as different to the brain of a straight man. It makes sense that the brain of a gay person would differ from that of a straight person.

Also, I never said that it was a choice. Something that amazes me with this debate is how people either see black or white; i.e. it is either genetic or it is a 'choice'. Just because somebody says that environmental factors dictate a persons sexuality, doesn't mean they're saying a person wakes up one day and says "I'm gonna be gay".

 

[Becoming]

Exactly.

LOng time no see bro.

 

[bluepeter]

LOng time no see bro.

http://www.bollywoodworld.ca/bwgallery/displayimage.php?album=64&pos=15

 

[jd_uk]

I agree environment will play some role in shaping the final product -

but think about this - a kid (who is gay but doesn't know it yet) is brought up all macho - it isn't going to change the most basic sexual drives he experience (he will still be attracted to men, consciously or not)

his environment will however affect how he expresses those drives

a kid (who is straight) is brought up say in a society where homosexuality is the norm... his attraction to women doesn't go away - just he will express it differently

The development of the brain will determine the basic parameters - environment will determine how they are expressed. To someone outside this person it might appear that an event caused them to "turn gay" or "turn transexual" - when in reality it only reshaped how they experss their pre-existing internal drive..

I see what you're saying, and they are good points but i don't actually think that there is any such thing as 'a kid who is gay but doesn't know it yet'. I think that our early childhood and the way which we live it can determine our sexuality; as i pointed out with the examples of fetishes. Also i think that sexuality is way too difficult and complex for us to understand so people look for an answer in the form of a gene. I'd love to see some scientist show me the genetics which make a man attracted to an animal (let's not forget that such people do exist) or a womans shoes, or even children without any interest in adults (as sick as it is).

Why can a stage hypnotist can so easily make a person attracted to a wooden broom? (Possibly a bad example as the effects of hypnotistm don't last but it does show how attraction is strongly psychological.)

It seems fairly obvious to me that sexuality is learned behaviour. Some people might say 'so if a kid has two gay parents then why doesn't he turn out gay?' My answer to that argument is that it's just not as simple as that. Thousands of environmental factors could influence sexuality and it''s just too complicated for scientists with their controlled experiments to uderstand.


p.s. logging off so any replies to be answered tomorrow!

 

[Becoming]

Thanks BP. You remembered my fascination. I have seen some indian/arab girl porn pop up recently but most of it is pretty bad! LOL

I see what you're saying, and they are good points but i don't actually think that there is any such thing as 'a kid who is gay but doesn't know it yet'. I think that our early childhood and the way which we live it can determine our sexuality; as i pointed out with the examples of fetishes. Also i think that sexuality is way too difficult and complex for us to understand so people look for an answer in the form of a gene. I'd love to see some scientist show me the genetics which make a man attracted to an animal (let's not forget that such people do exist) or a womans shoes, or even children without any interest in adults (as sick as it is).

Why can a stage hypnotist can so easily make a person attracted to a wooden broom? (Possibly a bad example as the effects of hypnotistm don't last but it does show how attraction is strongly psychological.)

It seems fairly obvious to me that sexuality is learned behaviour. Some people might say 'so if a kid has two gay parents then why doesn't he turn out gay?' My answer to that argument is that it's just not as simple as that. Thousands of environmental factors could influence sexuality and it''s just too complicated for scientists with their controlled experiments to uderstand.

p.s. logging off so any replies to be answered tomorrow!

yeah, I don't think anyone has a clue about fetishes, LOL But those are expressions of their sexuality, not their sexual orientation/sexual identity. So they will be due to a combination of early development (before birth-what results in sexual identity and orientation) combined with life experiences. The guy isn't attracted to the shoe - he is attracted to the women's shoe. Somewhere he got the idea that the shoe was equivalent (or better than the woman) The person is a pedophile/zoophile because for whatever reason he equates that with the correct way to express his sexual drive. Of course some pedophiles are really just violent criminals, and that is not really sexually motivated, that is a violent crime intended to hurt and generate a feeling of power - but that is a whole othe ball of worms....

hypnotism has been shown to be a function of the receiver's psyche rather than people in general - basically it only works on people who are very receptive to suggestive ideas - it does not work on everyone. It works because the person being hypnotized either subconsciously wants it to work, or believes it will work. It is not a true phenomena in effect.

I am not arguing that sexual orientation is genetics at all - results on that are pretty non-conclusive at this point.

keep in mind environment starts in the womb - hormones flux isn't determined by genetics - many other things can cause variations at critical timepoints. it is the hormone flux at that time that effects the development of the brain, this has nothing to do with genetics. This is what I am arguing has the largest effect on sexual orientation/identity

so yeah - I agree it is environment - the most important one being before birth - the less imporant one after birth (though it still will have an effect and sometimes a big one, but rarely bigger than before birth if ever, although in some cases where the expression is more bizzare, it might appear so)

 

[bluepeter]

http://www.hardcoreindiangirls.com/fhg-pic/80/?affid=easygals

 

[Becoming]

http://www.hardcoreindiangirls.com/fhg-pic/80/?affid=easygals

lol!