I tried the Tren and Winnie transderm and honestly I don't think I got anything out of them. On the same note, I tried RS transderm, and again nothing note worthy. I'm 50 years old and been in the game along time, if you're going to spend a good amount of money, just get real steroids, run a smart cycle, train, eat and sleep properly and then you'll see results. And yes this requires pinning.