thighs, thighs, thighs...

[Raina]

Hehe. I know. I get funny looks as in when I throw the pin in that low on the stack-- especially since I'm not a very big person. I'm thinking I'll lift the stack in the next month. It's always great to know that you have the ability to crush walnuts with your thighs.

The abductor machine kills me. That stupid thing makes me limp around like a wounded dog. But there's nothing like nice deep squats to make the legs and butt feel tight as hell.

 

[Gladiola]

Hey Spatts!

I'm really intrigued by the relationship between strength & size. It does seem that anything that would make us stronger should make us bigger & vice versa... although genetics play a part. But in one given individual, shouldn't it be that they gain strength & size proportionally (i.e. they couldn't train one way for strength, another way for size, as if the 2 could be separate).

I do remember Hannibal mentioned training more often, but it confuses the heck out of me. Why should it be so different for Power Lifters? Don't you grow when you recover? Doesn't over training work against you?

& my exercise physiolgist friend told me muscles are 120% stronger on the eccentric contraction... thus utilizing the negative can lead to an overall greater strength gain, so if strength is your goal, why eliminate the negative the majority of the time?

 

[KEL]

I never push the same weight more than 3 weeks in a row or so

I try to lift like this as well. It leaves no room for sand-bagging.

 

[Hannibal]

Gladi...we just had a couple threads about this. I'll try to bump 'em for you. You don't remember W6 telling Hannibal he was overtrained because he's in the gym 6 days a week?

I WISH strength and size were proportional. That would be a dream come true. I'd be a genetic freak for sure.

I never push the same weight more than 3 weeks in a row or so, but I sure as heck don't grow that fast. Whew...that would be SCHWEET.

Ok my name has been dropped in this thread several times. Lets see if I have anything to add to this discussion. I dont think Spatts memory is that good.....W6 came to somewhat of an agreement on philosophy by then end of our last training discussion.

And being in the gym 6 days a week does not mean you are overtrained. There is all different kinds of training. Actually 12 weeks out from a competition my volume is up to 14 workouts a week. Are all of them TRADITIONAL gym workouts NO. Most of them are recovery and feeder workouts with lighter weight forcing fresh blood into the recovering muscle in an effort to speed recovery as well as raising work capacity (ability to do work). Medicine ball training, sled dragging, concentric only work....it all contributes to your overall level of fitness. Besides there are a lot of lifters that are MUCH stronger than me using the same volume training....they might be overtrained...but they can move some iron.

As for the correlation between strength and size. This is always a debate. A muscle size and its strength are not directly related. Think about it....if that were so bodybuilding heavyweight could walk into any powerlifting meet and take home 1st place. But in fact most Pro Bodybuilders are relatively weak. Strength is not dependant on muscle size. There are so many other factors such as leverage, tendon strength...but the one that escapes some people is muscular recruitment. Your average bodybuilder probably recruits about 50% of the overall muscles that he has available to him on a particular movement. World Class powerlifters probably recruit 80%+. This is how someone like George Halbert can bench 733lbs at 215lbs....or Chuck Vogepuhl can squat 1000lbs at 220lbs. Besides the fact that their training is geared directly towards strength...they recruit a higher percentage of muscle.

Just my .02

 

[Arioch]

A couple of factors can influence the ability of a muscle to generate force without directly contributing to an increase in pCSA.

More force can be generated when more motor units are activated. FT motor units generate more force than ST motor units because each FT unit has more muscle fibers than a ST unit.

The length of a muscle. A longer muscle, as measured from origin to insertion, will have greater elastic properties, resulting in more energy stored, then released.

On the other hand, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy occurs with an accumulation of intercellular fluid and non contractile proteins, which do not influence muscle force production. This is fine for a BB, but terrible for a PL/OL.

Gladiola, when Hannibal and myself, as well as other power and Olympic-style weightlifters are training, we are not just training to increase muscle size. That is a side effect of training, not the purpose. Or rather, it is not the main goal. Other things are equally, if not far more important.

Training the CNS. This is done via the maximal effort method. This involves lifting a maximal or near maximal weight in either a competition lift or a lift designed to closely simulate/stimulate a competition lift. This improves motor unit recruitment, rate coding, and other factors that are not stimulated training with a lighter weight. This sort of training does not generally contribute to hypertrophy when compared to higher rep training.

Improving the skill of a particular lift. This is done via the dynamic effort method. It involves lifting a light weight as quickly as possible. This is done for a low number of reps (2-3), but a high number of sets (8-10). This not only improves the skill in the lift, but also trains the stretch reflex, allowing one to become more explosive over time, if done correctly and carefully. As the time under tension is still relatively low compared to many BB programs, this method is not as conducive to hypertrophy, but will produce more size than the maximal effort method.

As to why the lack of eccentric work, it causes more trauma to the muscle itself, which requires more time spent resting and less time spent training. While a muscle may be stronger during the eccentric portion of the lift, we are training to improve the concentric, and this is better served through other methods. The more time we can spend improving sport specific skill, the better, and this is not the case if one is spend three or four days limping around following a squat workout.

Here is a good article on conditioning:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/gpp.htm

 

[SweatChloe]

ok...

ok...i was planning on dropping some fat on the thing area. sometimes my thighs appear so bulky and i thought it was the excercises that i was doing...those ad/abductor thing machines. i started off doing like 50 lbs and now i do like 80-85. i do about 25 reps and 4 sets. i never do lunges...should i be doing these instead?
thanks for all the help!

 

[Gladiola]

Re: ok...

ok...i was planning on dropping some fat on the thing area.

You can't spot reduce.

You can make your muscles stronger & harder. You can lose body fat, but you can't decide from WHERE that body fat will come.

I'm getting tired of being the bearer of bad news but I refuse to perpetuate myths & lies. I tell participants in the aerobics classes I teach all the time that we can do tons of ab & tricep work.. but it doesn't make the fat come off those areas.

 

[Gladiola]

Re: Re: ok...

This is why I've taken a sabbatical from teaching lots of classes.... a change in my life that was overdue. I am so enjoying spending time (online & in real life) with others who already know the basics, hows, whats & whys of lifting.

 

[new@gettinbig]

You are not going to get BULKY..if you have poor diet..yes you will cause you will get FAT!! You DO NOT have the hormones to get huge massive muscles..so relax..lift heavy..SQUAT!!!!!!!!