The greatest fighter of all time!

[Djimbe]

Well, he's not even the best boxer of all time by anyone's estimation that knows about boxing, so how can he be the best fighter overall? I still think his comeback was fixed, either that of the talent level in boxing was really low at the time, but thats kind of besides the point.

Umm , you mean by POPULAR estimation ? because hes VERY often considered in he top ten by anyone that knows what the hell theyre on about .

And you guys have to remember that Foxers train to win Boxing matches , and MMA guys train to win NHB contests , neither of wich is a fight . And nope , an NHB contest ISNT "The Closest thing to a fight" there is .

 

[Djimbe]

Oh I'd love to see Georgie roll.......I'd wet my pants.

Im not sure what that means ...

But honestly, put the MMA gloves on and fedor would roll even Ali.

Youre only sayiong that because Fedor STARTED in MMA , lets face it , Sambo rules a re SO much closer to MMA rules than Boxings are . I mean , hed been preparing for it his whole life . Give Ali the same Training ...

My argument is that its the Ruleset that you train to .

Tyson is the only pure boxer that I would say could have made it in MMA if his sprawl got real good. I don't even want to think what would happen to someone if Mike caught em with the MMA gloves.

Are you KIDDING ? Mikie is/was an Idiot that NEVER was able to Evolve his game ,and once someone didnt fall to his one-trick-pony bullshit he VERY quickly lost to them . He NEVER thought his way out of a Superiou Opponent ONCE ala a "Rope A Dope" or what Foreman did with Morer by simply showing him the same thing till he got used to it then switching up for the knockout . .

Still the sickest puncher of all time. George had to wind up his power......Mike had it on tap from the guard, completely different.

Bad observation .

It simply LOOKS like that because mike has stumpy lil Midget arms ans Foreman has the wingspan of a condor . Guys like Silvia , Fedor and even Lidell make their Longer-Than-Tyson arms work for hem just fine . Guys like Tyson and Tua just LOOK like theypunch "better" becauyse they have no Reach comparative to the Width of their Torsos .

I also think that you have a VERY Limited knowledge of the Boxers Game and Aresenal , and the fact is that Tysons PRIME lasted only three years , and he was TOTALLY thwarted every time he met the type of fighter you claim he would have done better than . Tysons loss to Douglas was a TOTAL imitation of Ali on douglas' part , the lateral foot work , the punching style ,m everything but he Rappiong was there . And tyson would have been handily crushed by LISTON , whom Ali manhandled readily and EASILY had tyson's Power . Do some Reading onm he Boxing game , my man . Tyson was nowhere near in foreman's category , who was very nearly in tyson's .

Heres a classic article with much better Detail than I provide , its focus is on Tyson , in fact . :

http://www.fightbeat.com/article_detail.php?AT=252



http://coxscorner.tripod.com/boxchart1.html

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/most_feared.html

 

[Anthony Starks]

Umm , you mean by POPULAR estimation ? because hes VERY often considered in he top ten by anyone that knows what the hell theyre on about .

Sure, top ten, but I've NEVER seen him as #1 in any boxing publication. EVER. And you would think you should at least be considered the best boxer before anyone even thinks about calling you the best overall fighter in any discipline around.

 

[redsamurai]

[

QUOTE=Djimbe]Im not sure what that means ...

watching george roll around on the floor with BJJ artist, that's what I was talking about.....it would be comical.

Youre only sayiong that because Fedor STARTED in MMA , lets face it , Sambo rules a re SO much closer to MMA rules than Boxings are . I mean , hed been preparing for it his whole life . Give Ali the same Training ...

My argument is that its the Ruleset that you train to .

you might have a point here......but fact is ali didn't train MMA, so calling him the best "fighter" of all time is suspect. MMA and NHB style fights are the closest legal fights you can have with another man that are about as close as you're going to get to a street fight......and that in my opinion is the gold standard.

Are you KIDDING ? Mikie is/was an Idiot that NEVER was able to Evolve his game ,and once someone didnt fall to his one-trick-pony bullshit he VERY quickly lost to them . He NEVER thought his way out of a Superiou Opponent ONCE ala a "Rope A Dope" or what Foreman did with Morer by simply showing him the same thing till he got used to it then switching up for the knockout . . Bad observation .

It simply LOOKS like that because mike has stumpy lil Midget arms ans Foreman has the wingspan of a condor . Guys like Silvia , Fedor and even Lidell make their Longer-Than-Tyson arms work for hem just fine . Guys like Tyson and Tua just LOOK like theypunch "better" becauyse they have no Reach comparative to the Width of their Torsos .

Tyson was an idiot, outside of the ring. But tyson was not a "midget" at 5'11......nor were his arms "that" short. Yeah, he had to get inside people to affect his power.......and in his prime he could do that. Had he not had his outside problems, had he not fallen in with Don King.......his reign would have lasted for years. In his prime he would have crushed everyone that held the belt since he first went to prison. Six years in prison, nobody can resurrect a carreer after that.....not a serious one at least, and that's been shown by him. Now you talk about Fedor and Liddell's long arms working for them......this is true. I haven't seen Liddell pushed yet.....but I've seen Fedor rocked now by Crocop and Hunt. Both superior punchers who don't loop their punches.......as they came right through fedors looping hooks. Fedor generates a tremendous amount of power with that approach, because he's basically spaghetti flinging his arms AND putting his whole torso behind it. If you look at him, he has to throw that way because his shoulders and traps and back muscles aren't developed like a pure punchers......and that's because he's trained in multiple forms.......which makes him a superior overall fighter, but it does leave him vulnerable to punches thrown right down broadway. Yeah he still beat crocop and hunt, but they hurt him. But you simply cannot say with seriousness that Tyson only "looked" like he punched better because of his reach?? That's just ridiculous......Fedor and Lidell could both punch like Tyson if they chose to......and probably still knock people out. But lidell especially won't do that because it opens him up to someones ground game. I still say in a pure punchers match, Tyson in his prime might still be the most powerful puncher in the history of any sport. He could absorb a shot and had a closing slide that got in on anybody.

I also think that you have a VERY Limited knowledge of the Boxers Game and Aresenal , and the fact is that Tysons PRIME lasted only three years , and he was TOTALLY thwarted every time he met the type of fighter you claim he would have done better than . Tysons loss to Douglas was a TOTAL imitation of Ali on douglas' part , the lateral foot work , the punching style ,m everything but he Rappiong was there . And tyson would have been handily crushed by LISTON , whom Ali manhandled readily and EASILY had tyson's Power . Do some Reading onm he Boxing game , my man . Tyson was nowhere near in foreman's category , who was very nearly in tyson's .

I might not know a whole lot about the "boxing" game.....but I know striking. I know when I see a technically superior striker. We've both seen the Douglas fight.....Tyson was out of shape and had too much pussy on the mind. He lost his hunger.....you could see it before the fight even started. I still think Douglas had the right game plan even if tyson came in perfect.....so yeah I think he would have lasted more rounds than most. But Tyson dialed in would have eventually overcome douglas......and even not, a rematch would have gone to Tyson.....you saw how bad Douglas got after that fight.

 

[excuse]

pound for pound - FRANK SHAMROCK

right now - CROCOP AND FEDOR

 

[Djimbe]

Sure, top ten, but I've NEVER seen him as #1 in any boxing publication. EVER. And you would think you should at least be considered the best boxer before anyone even thinks about calling you the best overall fighter in any discipline around.

then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long .

The fact is that Ali , WIDELY considered "The Greatest" now was considered the underdog to Foreman , whom was every bit as dominant .

 

[Djimbe]

[


watching george roll around on the floor with BJJ artist, that's what I was talking about.....it would be comical.

Not as funny as watching someone that had only BJJ training try to stand with him in a boxing ring , Ill wager .

you might have a point here......but fact is ali didn't train MMA, so calling him the best "fighter" of all time is suspect.

calling someone the best "Fighter" of all time unless they fight to the death is rediculous , honestly . in fact , this list should be populated with guys like Musashi , Spartacus , Achilles and Leonidas - and not the posers listed above .

MMA and NHB style fights are the closest legal fights you can have with another man that are about as close as you're going to get to a street fight......and that in my opinion is the gold standard.

No they arent .

You presume that because you think you can DO the most in an "Nhb" style fight that it is what most closely resembles "the Real Thing" .

Twaddle .

The fact is that MMA fighting is probably FURTHER away from "reality" than a Dumog , Leithwei , Muay Thai , San Shou or Lei Tai matchup .

And until they start fighting them on hard surfaces they always will be .

Tyson was an idiot, outside of the ring.

In as well . One trick pony , you didnt fall to his style he made NO adjustments .

And Lost .


You really SHOULD read up on some of the links I posted .

But tyson was not a "midget" at 5'11......nor were his arms "that" short. Yeah, he had to get inside people to affect his power.......

dude , thats Middleweight height go look at guys like Cossamayor

Stand Tyson next to Valuev , Klichskow , Lewis , Jack Johnson ...

and in his prime he could do that. Had he not had his outside problems,

Tyson's prime lasted FOUR YEARS .

had he not fallen in with Don King.......his reign would have lasted for years. In his prime he would have crushed everyone that held the belt since he first went to prison.

No way would he EVER have beaten Lewis . In fact the reason you never saw the Tyson/Foreman fight was because Don King KNEW that he would be Feeding the poor boy to George . There was NO way Tyson could beat Foreman and DK wasnt messing up his $ like that .

Six years in prison, nobody can resurrect a carreer after that.....not a serious one at least, and that's been shown by him.

Tysons Limitations were uncovered before he went away . In FACT him going away did more for him than anything else . They hid his Unraelling weaknesses from the public / casual observer like yourself and secured his "legacy" of Imagined greatness in the minds of those that dont realise that in his breif "era" he only had poor Evander whom ALSO wasnt worth much after those same four years . When REAL Competition abounded , neither was able to do squat .

Now you talk about Fedor and Liddell's long arms working for them......this is true. I haven't seen Liddell pushed yet.....but I've seen Fedor rocked now by Crocop and Hunt. Both superior punchers who don't loop their punches.......as they came right through fedors looping hooks. Fedor generates a tremendous amount of power with that approach, because he's basically spaghetti flinging his arms AND putting his whole torso behind it. If you look at him, he has to throw that way because his shoulders and traps and back muscles aren't developed like a pure punchers......and that's because he's trained in multiple forms.......which makes him a superior overall fighter, but it does leave him vulnerable to punches thrown right down broadway. Yeah he still beat crocop and hunt, but they hurt him. But you simply cannot say with seriousness that Tyson only "looked" like he punched better because of his reach?? That's just ridiculous......Fedor and Lidell could both punch like Tyson if they chose to......and probably still knock people out. But lidell especially won't do that because it opens him up to someones ground game.

The entire above section is too filtered by your religious faith in the MMA Ruleset to argue . I dont think MMA Rules mean Squat , so most of the above is invalid to me .

I still say in a pure punchers match, Tyson in his prime might still be the most powerful puncher in the history of any sport.

WOW you need to research the history of Boxing more . Liston hit EVERY bit as hard as Tyson , and guys like Jack Johnson would have blown him away . Tyson wasnt eve CLOSE to the top punchers in Power . Not top 5 even .

He could absorb a shot

Now a CHIN the boy had in spades , Ill give you that ,but the rest ...

and had a closing slide that got in on anybody.

No , not really . not once he was figured out .

I might not know a whole lot about the "boxing" game.....but I know striking. I know when I see a technically superior striker. We've both seen the Douglas fight.....

Dude anyone that "knows Striking" should be a student of Boxing , Muay Thai , and San Shou Rulesets , Movements styles , strategies , their players , and their History MINIMUM , and I believe TKD and Karate ones as well .

Tyson was out of shape and had too much pussy on the mind. He lost his hunger.....you could see it before the fight even started.

Again , Past his Prime .

I still think Douglas had the right game plan even if tyson came in perfect.....so yeah I think he would have lasted more rounds than most. But Tyson dialed in would have eventually overcome douglas......and even not, a rematch would have gone to Tyson.....you saw how bad Douglas got after that fight.

No way in hell . Douglas was too big and too mobile for Tyson . Too much Ali .

And Tyson got even Worse than Douglas ! HE just had ppl that Douglas didnt there to Shore Him Up because they believed he could still be a Meal Ticket to them . Buster had no such support system . Mindset has MUCH to do with a Fighter , and his abilities .

 

[redsamurai]

Not as funny as watching someone that had only BJJ training try to stand with him in a boxing ring , Ill wager .

c'mon, George with someone in full guard? If you don't find that visual funny you DON"T have a sense of humor

calling someone the best "Fighter" of all time unless they fight to the death is rediculous , honestly . in fact , this list should be populated with guys like Musashi , Spartacus , Achilles and Leonidas - and not the posers listed above .

I'll partially agree here......I know full well on the street, when there's intent to kill, things are different. But this thread was talking about people on the list.....and as it pertains to the list, I still hold to my arguments. We'll never now who the "truly" greatest fighter is........but we can argue about those that we know of. And please keep characters that fought with weapons out of this. I respect all the men you mentioned.......well, Achilles might be a pure myth.......but the other guys are verified facts.

In as well . One trick pony , you didnt fall to his style he made NO adjustments .

And Lost .

Ok, we know he lost to Douglas......you ascertain that tyson at his best couldn't beat Douglas, I really disagree. But it's a mute point. What is fact is what he did to everyone before Douglas. He didn't need to change, he never was a "tactical" fighter. He overwhelmed with precision strikes that were too powerful.....everyone succumbed. He destroyed some really good fighters......even you have to admit that.




dude , thats Middleweight height go look at guys like Cossamayor
Stand Tyson next to Valuev , Klichskow , Lewis , Jack Johnson ...


Those guys you mention are NOT typical of heavyweight fighters. Yeah, tyson might have been on the low end......but at 215-220 he was diesel.

No way would he EVER have beaten Lewis . In fact the reason you never saw the Tyson/Foreman fight was because Don King KNEW that he would be Feeding the poor boy to George . There was NO way Tyson could beat Foreman and DK wasnt messing up his $ like that .

An opinion I can't refute, nor can you prove.

Tysons Limitations were uncovered before he went away . In FACT him going away did more for him than anything else . They hid his Unraelling weaknesses from the public / casual observer like yourself and secured his "legacy" of Imagined greatness in the minds of those that dont realise that in his breif "era" he only had poor Evander whom ALSO wasnt worth much after those same four years . When REAL Competition abounded , neither was able to do squat .

By whom? Douglas? Douglas just proved that no matter how bad you are.....you can't look past anybody in a fight.

WOW you need to research the history of Boxing more . Liston hit EVERY bit as hard as Tyson , and guys like Jack Johnson would have blown him away . Tyson wasnt eve CLOSE to the top punchers in Power . Not top 5 even .

I'll give you that there have been some guys throughout the ages that compared to Tyson.......but dude, are you serious about not putting Tyson in the top 5 when everyone that studies boxing put's him at number 1? Yeah, there's some guys right there with him.......but man, you just really have something for the boy because you are not looking at this objectively. I'm not calling Tyson the greatest boxer ever.....I'm not qualified for that. But to call him one of the hardest if not THE hardest puncher in boxing history is simply using the senses that god gave me. I've seen clips of alot of boxers........seen guys get knocked out. I've NEVER seen the soul of a man punched out of his body like I saw what happened when mike hit someone. Not just once, but almost every one of his knockouts were like tossing a percussion grenade at someone. And I'm not alone on this......I've seen alot of boxing analysts over the years make the same exact observation. Really not sure where you're coming from or if you even know who Tyson was at this point.

Dude anyone that "knows Striking" should be a student of Boxing , Muay Thai , and San Shou Rulesets , Movements styles , strategies , their players , and their History MINIMUM , and I believe TKD and Karate ones as well .

I've taken Muay Thai, boxing (but with MMA intentions)......different strategy than typical boxing. Took Karate early on and can say it's garbage......tis why no one fights like that. Can't beleive you even mentioned it. When I look at a striker.....I look how he generates his power. That's why I'm impressed with crocop and hunt.....they don't have to spool up a punch for it to knock you silly. The best example of this is the punch crocop threw to break Bob Sapps eyesocket.........would you like a link?

 

[Spanky11]

Took Karate early on and can say it's garbage......tis why no one fights like that.

it obviously wasn't Kyokushin karate you studied...

 

[Djimbe]

Interresting that Crocops Root is in Karate , as is Chuck Lidells .

 

[Djimbe]

c'mon, George with someone in full guard? If you don't find that visual funny you DON"T have a sense of humor

I guess i just dont see why its any funnier than Cabbage or Nog , or Hunt or Gardener with someone in Guard . Lots of good Grapplers are built like George .

Those guys you mention are NOT typical of heavyweight fighters. Yeah, tyson might have been on the low end......but at 215-220 he was diesel.

MOST of Mikes Opponents were SCRUBS at BEST . ANd "Deisel" at 220 ? Please . I was 220 at age 12 . HEd be one of the lightest guys on any Football squad , and NOT what ANYONE would call a "Big Man" walking around town anywhere .

An opinion I can't refute, nor can you prove.

A WIDELY HELD Opinion amongst MANY boxing experts . The Tyson/Foreman card was on the table for a LONG time and single handedly Derailed by King himself . Do some hunting around on Google .

Ok, we know he lost to Douglas......you ascertain that tyson at his best couldn't beat Douglas, I really disagree. But it's a mute point. What is fact is what he did to everyone before Douglas. He didn't need to change, he never was a "tactical" fighter. He overwhelmed with precision strikes that were too powerful.....everyone succumbed. He destroyed some really good fighters......even you have to admit that.

...

By whom? Douglas? Douglas just proved that no matter how bad you are.....you can't look past anybody in a fight.

Youre problem here is that youre not looking at the FIGHTS THEMSELVES , just the W/L records ! Douglas didnt beat mike on a Fluke , he got the win by studying the holes in his game that had been exposed in the fights that mike WON . Look at the tapes and you can see when mike was Flustered by Lateral movement LONG before Douglas came along , even if it wasnt quite enough to beat him on its own in that one instance . Buster and his squad put those things together , and eventually came up with a Comprehensive game plan that worked . and its not like he was in the bestr era of Boxing , exactly . After Evander whom , did he have ?

I'll give you that there have been some guys throughout the ages that compared to Tyson.......but dude, are you serious about not putting Tyson in the top 5 when everyone that studies boxing put's him at number 1?

Dude , NO ONE that seriously studies the fight game and its history puts Tyson @ number 1 .

THAT is kind of the point of my posts here .
And why I listed those Links earlier , so you could see that for yourself .

Yeah, there's some guys right there with him.......but man, you just really have something for the boy because you are not looking at this objectively. I'm not calling Tyson the greatest boxer ever.....I'm not qualified for that. But to call him one of the hardest if not THE hardest puncher in boxing history is simply using the senses that god gave me. I've seen clips of alot of boxers........seen guys get knocked out. I've NEVER seen the soul of a man punched out of his body like I saw what happened when mike hit someone. Not just once, but almost every one of his knockouts were like tossing a percussion grenade at someone.

Yes , Tyson was a KO artist . But he was one with a Relatively soft lead up to his Pro Career . Ive seen a LOT of KO's in my day , and Tysons array loo

And I'm not alone on this......I've seen alot of boxing analysts over the years make the same exact observation. Really not sure where you're coming from or if you even know who Tyson was at this point.

And a lot of so-called "Analysts" are naught more than rediculous Hype Men .


ANd Larry Merchant is a Drunk .

I've taken Muay Thai, boxing (but with MMA intentions)......different strategy than typical boxing. Took Karate early on and can say it's garbage......

dude , Your Karate class was garbage , perhaps ./ All Karate as a whole ? please .

tis why no one fights like that. Can't beleive you even mentioned it. When I look at a striker.....I look how he generates his power. That's why I'm impressed with crocop and hunt.....they don't have to spool up a punch for it to knock you silly. The best example of this is the punch crocop threw to break Bob Sapps eyesocket.........would you like a link?

Actually there are QUITE a few good MMA ppl with Karate BGs .

 

[redsamurai]

I guess i just dont see why its any funnier than Cabbage or Nog , or Hunt or Gardener with someone in Guard . Lots of good Grapplers are built like George .


alright, I guess I'm alone on this one

MOST of Mikes Opponents were SCRUBS at BEST . ANd "Deisel" at 220 ? Please . I was 220 at age 12 . HEd be one of the lightest guys on any Football squad , and NOT what ANYONE would call a "Big Man" walking around town anywhere .

dude, I understand you're close to 400 pounds....I saw the video of you, you are a very big boy......but this is the fight game, and 220 ripped at 5'11 is a solid motherfucker by anyone's standard. Were you "ripped" like mike when you were 12? No offense bro, but you ain't ripped now. If you got into mike's shape you'd be closer to 300 pounds. The only monster running around right now that looks to be in decent shape is sapp.....he sports a six pack at 360. Point is, in the fight game......pure size doesn't make the fighter. If valuev was so dominant.....why did he go 12 rounds with Ruiz? who got beat by Roy Jones....



e .

...Youre problem here is that youre not looking at the FIGHTS THEMSELVES , just the W/L records ! Douglas didnt beat mike on a Fluke , he got the win by studying the holes in his game that had been exposed in the fights that mike WON . Look at the tapes and you can see when mike was Flustered by Lateral movement LONG before Douglas came along , even if it wasnt quite enough to beat him on its own in that one instance . Buster and his squad put those things together , and eventually came up with a Comprehensive game plan that worked . and its not like he was in the bestr era of Boxing , exactly . After Evander whom , did he have ?

I know Douglas's fight was not a fluke.....I'm just saying that Tyson was no where near his best......he looked like he had a late night when he walked to the ring. He got lazy......I'm not defending that, it's his fault for loosing his drive and work ethic......a product of being in DK's clutches. I just think that Tyson in his prime would have physically overcome Douglas "easy". Had Douglas been able to put mike away in a few rounds, I'd say ok......but he danced around an out of shape opponent for 8 or 9 rounds. All Tyson did in that fight was throw one punch combo's.....that's not the Tyson of early. So I give credit to Douglas for that gameplan.......and "maybe" he still would have been able to beat Tyson. I just don't think Douglas would have been able to stay in there with a Tyson that was primed to go the full distance and still put out max performance every round.

Dude , NO ONE that seriously studies the fight game and its history puts Tyson @ number 1 .

ok, link me to some knockout clips of guys you think punched harder than Tyson......maybe I'm wrong, but I have to see it to beleive it. Alot of boxing analysts hate Tyson and blame him for the demise of the HW division and boxing in general, for turning all of his fights into circus acts. So show me where someone gets his family tree knocked right the fuck out of that tree. I've seen Tyson hit a man to the body.....not a knockout, but a second later that guy crumbled because he wanted NO MORE of Tyson's power. People just lost their hearts when they fought Tyson.....and that I don't need an analyst to tell me because I can see it with my own eyes.








dude , Your Karate class was garbage , perhaps ./ All Karate as a whole ? please .


Karate is watered down for the american market



Actually there are QUITE a few good MMA ppl with Karate BGs


I'm sure they took a few karate courses when they were 12......but do you see any traditional karate in MMA fights? Muay Thai? absolutely......but not Karate. Even some of the japanese fighters that wear the gui's still punch and kick like kick boxers.....they only use that thing for ground work.

 

[Anthony Starks]

then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long .

The fact is that Ali , WIDELY considered "The Greatest" now was considered the underdog to Foreman , whom was every bit as dominant .

Link me to just ONE that has a top boxer list and puts Foreman at #1. Just one.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Link me to just ONE that has a top boxer list and puts Foreman at #1. Just one.

He didn't say that. He said at the time of the fight, Ali was the underdog. Ali ducked Foreman for the rest of his career. Many list guys will put Foreman at the #3 heavyweight spot behind Louis and Ali. Some will list Foreman behind Holmes also.

 

[Anthony Starks]

He didn't say that. He said at the time of the fight, Ali was the underdog. Ali ducked Foreman for the rest of his career. Many list guys will put Foreman at the #3 heavyweight spot behind Louis and Ali. Some will list Foreman behind Holmes also.

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time, I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

 

[Djimbe]

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time,

No , in fact I wasnt .

I was actually saying that Tyson wasnt even at Foreman's level much less Ali's , Liston's , or Louis' .

I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

Read the above post , Ali was considered the underdog to Foreman , who was , AT THE TIME , rated #1 over him AND Louis .

RECENTLY youre correct , but at the time , he WAS considered # 1 , thus my statement that you havent read a lot of Back Issues comes into play . I dont even AGREE with the #1 Ranking , and most ppl - even ones that said it at the time - have chganged their tunes since , but the fact is that there WAS a time when foreman WAS considered # 1 by many in hte sport .

 

[Djimbe]

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time,

No , in fact I wasnt .

I was actually saying that Tyson wasnt even at Foreman's level much less Ali's , Liston's , or Louis' .

I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

Read the above post , Ali was considered the underdog to Foreman , who was , AT THE TIME , rated #1 over him AND Louis .

RECENTLY youre correct , but at the time , he WAS considered # 1 , thus my statement that you havent read a lot of Back Issues comes into play . I dont even AGREE with the #1 Ranking , and most ppl - even ones that said it at the time - have chganged their tunes since , but the fact is that there WAS a time when foreman WAS considered # 1 by many in the sport .

 

[palehorse51]

I cant frickin believe that many people think Bruce Lee was the best fighter ever! WTF? HE WAS AN ACTOR! No professional fights! However Jeet Kune Do is awesome! Bruce was one of the first to crosstrain in different arts.

Rickson Gracie has the best technique of any fighter. EVERY opponent he ever faced professionally was much bigger and much stronger than him yet he is undefeated. The Gracies changed fighting FOREVER. Everyone knows their game now.Rickson also got down MANY times on the tuff streets of Rio De Janiero were he built his legend as a savage street fighter. Not to mention the bloody Vale Tudo fights where knife fights would be going on in the crowd!! I have had the honor of training with Rickson.You can feel his savage energy when he walks into the room. Yet he is so humble. A true master in every sense of the word. His son Kron is one to watch out for!!! He armbarred me in 20 seconds, and I outweigh him by 70 pounds.

I loved watching Bas Rutten fight! He will always be a favorite! Well rounded. Great striker.

Vanderlei Silva is very well rounded. Very dangerous. When I watched him destroy Rampage Jackson I knew he was the real deal.

Its damn hard if not impossible to say who is the best of all time. Fighters of today, like all athletes of today learn from the techniques and teachings of those that came before them. The knowledge of training methods, nutrition, science all grow and compound over time. Each era must stand separate from the others.

 

[Djimbe]

However Jeet Kune Do is awesome! Bruce was one of the first to crosstrain in different arts.

Actually JKD pretty much Reeks the way bruce trained it , in fact NO ONE has EVER won any kind of serious High level Fighting Championship using JKD . Not even like , K1 or anything restricted to standup even .

ANd Crosstraining is pretty much Chinese Tradition . Praying Mantis has Monkey footwork in it . Hun Gar is the combination of Tiger and Crane styles . The guy that invented Baguazhang would ONLY teach masters of other systems so that EVERY one of his students was a unique hybrid unto themselves . Wing Chun is a sytem that is a TOTAL hybrid , and its Bruce Lees ONLY system of serious study , so maybey thats where he ripped the Idea off from .

 

[Djimbe]

dude, I understand you're close to 400 pounds....I saw the video of you, you are a very big boy......but this is the fight game, and 220 ripped at 5'11 is a solid motherfucker by anyone's standard.

Not by Mine , I guess .

Were you "ripped" like mike when you were 12?

Yes . Its not hard to get that look at 12 . I was still going through Puberty .

No offense bro, but you ain't ripped now.

You have absoloutley no Idea what the hell kind of shape IM in now . Especially because you saw an 88 second video of me over four years ago when I was suffering from a chronic Illness . Stop making presumptions .

If you got into mike's shape you'd be closer to 300 pounds.

Wrong .

Whren im in that kins of shae my weight goes UP , not down . My chest expands , my arms get bigger and my bf% drops . Muscle weighs more than fat .

FYI : Im about 400-410 on any given day now , and im in much better condition than when you saw me in that video - when im in TOP shape I float around at 425-445 . I dont keep myself that "Ripped" (as you like to put it) because all its good for is being a Poser and its bloody expensive when youre built like this . No one is paying for me to do all that extra Sprinting and for that extra $400/mo in suppliments , so what's the POINT ?

The only monster running around right now that looks to be in decent shape is sapp.....he sports a six pack at 360.

Actually Sapp is a decent example , hes built like a slightly smaller version of me . but with shorter proportionate Arms , I think ...

Point is, in the fight game......pure size doesn't make the fighter. If valuev was so dominant.....why did he go 12 rounds with Ruiz? who got beat by Roy Jones....

I never said it did , but you were going on and on about power .

And the Fight game can be Rock Paper Scissors . Just because a fighter can beat someone it dosent mean they can beat everyone that THEY can beat .

e .

?

I know Douglas's fight was not a fluke.....I'm just saying that Tyson was no where near his best......he looked like he had a late night when he walked to the ring. He got lazy......I'm not defending that, it's his fault for loosing his drive and work ethic......a product of being in DK's clutches. I just think that Tyson in his prime would have physically overcome Douglas "easy". Had Douglas been able to put mike away in a few rounds, I'd say ok......but he danced around an out of shape opponent for 8 or 9 rounds. All Tyson did in that fight was throw one punch combo's.....that's not the Tyson of early. So I give credit to Douglas for that gameplan.......and "maybe" he still would have been able to beat Tyson. I just don't think Douglas would have been able to stay in there with a Tyson that was primed to go the full distance and still put out max performance every round.

There was NOTHING wrong with Tyson's BODY . His trainers were bragging about how he could go longer than ever before , he had more stamina in the gym than ever , blahblahblahblah ... the fact is his MIND was gone , and THATS what you were seeing . Throwing one Punch Combops isnt a physical thing , its a lack of CONCENTRATING ON YOUR GAME , not Fatigue ! THe guy was always a Putz , but that time he was a Putz without a Handler , and it showed . His Body was same as it ever was , he just happened to lose his surrogate MIND .

ok, link me to some knockout clips of guys you think punched harder than Tyson......maybe I'm wrong, but I have to see it to beleive it.

I can give you names , look @ espn classic or something . sorry if I dont have some personal Online Resivoir of fights for you to look at though .

Alot of boxing analysts hate Tyson and blame him for the demise of the HW division and boxing in general, for turning all of his fights into circus acts.

Dude , thats because they set Tyson up with Cans .

So show me where someone gets his family tree knocked right the fuck out of that tree. I've seen Tyson hit a man to the body.....not a knockout, but a second later that guy crumbled because he wanted NO MORE of Tyson's power. People just lost their hearts when they fought Tyson.....and that I don't need an analyst to tell me because I can see it with my own eyes.

Please go watch Baer's fights , or Corbetts , or Jack Johnson's . Try looking at Dempsey or forman if you want to see ppl driven down by power .

I'm sure they took a few karate courses when they were 12......but do you see any traditional karate in MMA fights? Muay Thai? absolutely......but not Karate. Even some of the japanese fighters that wear the gui's still punch and kick like kick boxers.....they only use that thing for ground work.

Guess what ? You dont see Traditional Muay Thai in the MMA ring either .
You cant call it "Muay Thai" because you see a Rounhouse kick , you have Roundhouses , Knees and Elbows in Taekwondo , as well . May as well call what you see in MMA rings TKD or Shotokahn for that matter . The DAY I see Crocodile whips its Tail or Monkey Steals Coconut working in a Championship UFC fight THEN you can call it Muay Thai . A knee or an elbow is EVERY bit as much a Tai Chi technique as it is a MT one .

 

[palehorse51]

Actually JKD pretty much Reeks the way bruce trained it , in fact NO ONE has EVER won any kind of serious High level Fighting Championship using JKD . Not even like , K1 or anything restricted to standup even .

ANd Crosstraining is pretty much Chinese Tradition . Praying Mantis has Monkey footwork in it . Hun Gar is the combination of Tiger and Crane styles . The guy that invented Baguazhang would ONLY teach masters of other systems so that EVERY one of his students was a unique hybrid unto themselves . Wing Chun is a sytem that is a TOTAL hybrid , and its Bruce Lees ONLY system of serious study , so maybey thats where he ripped the Idea off from .

Point was JKD was the first MMA.

KUNG FU Looks cool in the movies. But it is not effective. Training in multiple Kung Fu "styles" is not cross training.

 

[palehorse51]

Wow, I would think people on a MMA forum would be more educated. An actor is #2 on your all time list?!? If you're going to vote for Bruce Lee, might as well vote for Sly Stallone, Van Damn, and Segal while you're at it. Hell, why not Brad Pitt too?

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[Djimbe]

Point was JKD was the first MMA.

Point was WRONG .

KUNG FU Looks cool in the movies. But it is not effective. Training in multiple Kung Fu "styles" is not cross training.

There is no Martial art called "Kung Fu" . The fact that you dont know that dosent surprise me . And China is a VERY large Country , training in Unrelatedly diverse Chinese systems IS very MUCH "Cross Training" .

 

[palehorse51]

Point was WRONG .



There is no Martial art called "Kung Fu" . The fact that you dont know that dosent surprise me . And China is a VERY large Country , training in Unrelatedly diverse Chinese systems IS very MUCH "Cross Training" .

Yes jkd was the first mma.

No kung fu is not crosstraining.

Kung Fu is for the movies. In america it is called kung fu. im not surprised that a kung fu guy would be upset to learn that training in different kung fu "styles" is not cross training.

there sure are alot of kung fu guys winning fights these days.
A guy crosstrained for a couple years in Kickboxing, BJJ, and wrestling would demolish a kung fu master "crosstrained" in wing chun, mantis, monkey and tiger.

 

[Djimbe]

Yes jkd was the first mma.

No , not by ANY defitnition of he words it isnt . John Bluming was teaching Karate and Judo in the fifties , and Mas Oyama is a student of both schools . Aikijujutsu is a blending of systems (including but not limited to Weaponsplay) that is FAR older than Bruce's birth , let alone his fame .

You see , youre wrong here on SO many levels . Firstly , for someone to "Mix Martial Arts" they have to be TRAINED in more than one style . Bruce Lee NEVER trained in ANYTHING other than Wing Chun under a Legitimate Instructor , and thus has no second style to "Mix" with . READING MANUALS like he did dosent count . You cant learn to Fight from books . You would tell ANY twelve year old that same thing . Secondly , he never even completed his Wing Chun training , so how would he even know what parts of the system NEEDED "editing" or "tweaking" ? Any "Holes" that he THINKS he may have found might EASILY be covered by the parts of the system he didnt know yet .

No its not crosstraining.

So JKD was an MMA but its not Crosstraining ? Well what , may we ask , is your definition of both , please ?

Kung Fu is for the movies.

In america it is called kung fu.

What , exactly , is this style called "Kung Fu" ? Does it come from the North of China or the south ? Is it from Shaolin ? Wudang ? Is it Bhuddist ? Taoist ? Wich Dynasty did it Origionate from ?

im not surprised that a kung fu guy would be upset to learn that training in different kung fu "styles" is not cross training.

Um , Im not Upset at anything , and you have yet to teach me anything . You clearly have no knowledge about what it is youre spouting off about whatsoever . Not only that , but you cant even provide factual basises for your ignorant statements . you just keep repeating yourself .

there sure are alot of kung fu guys winning fights these days.
A guy crosstrained for a couple years in Kickboxing, BJJ, and wrestling would demolish a kung fu master "crosstrained" in wing chun, mantis, monkey and tiger.

Considering that "Monkey and tiger" are both sub parts of FAS and not crosstraining at all ,perhaps . But probably only if you stuck to MMA rules . In a REAL fight the guy with less training gets his ass handed to him .

 

[palehorse51]

No , not by ANY defitnition of he words it isnt . John Bluming was teaching Karate and Judo in the fifties , and Mas Oyama is a student of both schools . Aikijujutsu is a blending of systems (including but not limited to Weaponsplay) that is FAR older than Bruce's birth , let alone his fame . .

blah, blah, blah,John Bluming TAUGHT karate and Judo. Bruce incorporated parts of other systems into a new mixed system. Aikijujutsu is a single system.

You see , youre wrong here on SO many levels . Firstly , for someone to "Mix Martial Arts" they have to be TRAINED in more than one style . Bruce Lee NEVER trained in ANYTHING other than Wing Chun under a Legitimate Instructor , and thus has no second style to "Mix" with . READING MANUALS like he did dosent count . You cant learn to Fight from books . You would tell ANY twelve year old that same thing . Secondly , he never even completed his Wing Chun training , so how would he even know what parts of the system NEEDED "editing" or "tweaking" ? Any "Holes" that he THINKS he may have found might EASILY be covered by the parts of the system he didnt know yet ..

You learn from fighting and SPARRING, Bruce SPARRED with all types of fighters. wrestlers, boxers, karatekas, judo players etc..etc...
He took this knowledge in addition to intense study and developed Jeet Kune Do. you dont have to train with a "legitimate" instructor to gain knowledge in fighting. there are top level MMA artists today that started out training in their garages with dvd's and their buddies. Mac Danzig....look him up.

Common sense can tell you an art is not complete. The first time bruce got taken to the ground by a wrestler he probably knew wing chun sucked ass.

So JKD was an MMA but its not Crosstraining ? Well what , may we ask , is your definition of both , please ? .

put your glasses on.

What , exactly , is this style called "Kung Fu" ? Does it come from the North of China or the south ? Is it from Shaolin ? Wudang ? Is it Bhuddist ? Taoist ? Wich Dynasty did it Origionate from ? .

Dont give a flying fuck. But ill tell you SHAOLIN. they all would lose to a western boxer or wrestler.

See, you are stuck in the past with traditional arts that look pretty but are not effective. All of your obscure kung fu knowledge means nothing.

Um , Im not Upset at anything , and you have yet to teach me anything . You clearly have no knowledge about what it is youre spouting off about whatsoever . Not only that , but you cant even provide factual basises for your ignorant statements . you just keep repeating yourself ..

I couldnt care less if you are upset. you are "unteachable" because you are stuck in the past.

Considering that "Monkey and tiger" are both sub parts of FAS and not crosstraining at all ,perhaps . But probably only if you stuck to MMA rules . In a REAL fight the guy with less training gets his ass handed to him .

I'd take Brazilizn jiu jitsu, boxing,muay thai and wrestling anyday. CHECK THE FACTS. The records speak for themselves.

And as I already stated, Bruce Lee was NOT the greatest fighter ever!!! He was an actor!!! But he was a great martial artist and Jeet Kune Do is his legacy.

 

[tin2]

Yeah I'd take Muay thai and bbj over and kung fu.. It just doesnt work as well..

And Bruce lee was a P.I.M.P. He may not be the greatest figher of all.. But he sure accomplished a lot of things in his short life .. more then we can say

 

[extremefighter]

Anyone who says Bruce Lee has watched too many movies. His style does not work in real life. Have you ever seen out MMA got started, guys like Bruce Lee would get there butts kicked by BJJ guys. Fedor is the best today.

 

[Djimbe]

blah, blah, blah,John Bluming TAUGHT karate and Judo.

That was my point . To TEACH them he had to actually STUDY them for long enough to EARN that Right . And THUS he was Mixing Standup and Groundgame LONG before Bruce "thought of it" . So you have PROOF that the MODERN "MMA Archetype" was being fulfilled LONG before 92 , But , in fact , ppl going outside their schools and mixing systems DID meet the "MMA" standard even if it wasnt to train to modern NHB rulesets . It was the same Spirit in wich it was done , producing the best Fighting system . so Sun Lu Tang was FAR ahead of Bruce Lee , and was a REAL Visionary .

Bruce incorporated parts of other systems into a new mixed system.

Bruce was a Skilless actor that did squat all .

Aikijujutsu is a single system.

Wich was made by blending more than one into one .

You learn from fighting and SPARRING,

No , no you do NOT .

You LEARN by Drilling through Progressive Resistance . If I give you a Basketball and tell you to learn to Shoot , and the ONLY shooting you EVER do is in a Game situation you will NEVER be a 3 Point Shooter . Your body will NEVER have the time to develop the Mechanics needed to hit the shot properly . You learn to shoot FIRST , and THEN you learn to do it under Game Pressure . First you learn the Technique so its like Breathing , and only THEN do you learn to Apply it in ANY given situation .

Bruce SPARRED with all types of fighters. wrestlers, boxers, karatekas, judo players etc..etc...
He took this knowledge in addition to intense study and developed Jeet Kune Do. you dont have to train with a "legitimate" instructor to gain knowledge in fighting. there are top level MMA artists today that started out training in their garages with dvd's and their buddies. Mac Danzig....look him up.

Please provide ANY actual EVIDENCE of this happening . No Videos ? No home movies ? Nothign ? Not just an Anecdote from some guy pretending to have inhereted bruces "Uuber 1337 skillzorxz" , actual evidence , not just your Fantasy of what you THINK Bruce MAY have done .

Common sense can tell you an art is not complete. The first time bruce got taken to the ground by a wrestler he probably knew wing chun sucked ass.

Since he never completed learning WC how could he know anything of the sort ? ALL that he COULD know is that HIS knowledge was lacking .

put your glasses on.

Clean your Lenses .

Dont give a flying fuck.

Reality seems to mean very little to you , yes .

But ill tell you SHAOLIN. they all would lose to a western boxer or wrestler.

See , Anyone calling themselves "SHAOLIN" is a Scam artist , and as such , not a Martial Artist at all . Shaolin was a PLACE , not a Martial Art . Thats like saying "I do TEXAS ! Yould better duck !!!"

ARE there ppl out there waving their arms around like David Carridine acting like that shit is MA ? Unfortunately , yes , there are . Does that make it so ? No , it dosent , it makes them Scam artists that take Advantage of Hollywood stereotyping and Ignorance .

See, you are stuck in the past with traditional arts that look pretty but are not effective. All of your obscure kung fu knowledge means nothing.

No , you are stuck on stupid with no fucking clue as to what it is youre on about . Nothing that I do has ever been called "pretty" thus far .

I couldnt care less if you are upset. you are "unteachable" because you are stuck in the past.

You think you have the ability to upset me ? heh .

And as for being "Stuck In the past" you REALLY have no CLUE as to what it is youre talking about . Baguazhang AND Wing Chun were both invented AFTER Muay Thai and Boxing , wich you both seem to love so much , and the fact is that Im Certified in all of them .

You THINK that because Im busting you for calling ONE thing (that you know nothing at all about) bad that I have no Knowledge of another . Youre DEAD wrong there . I Train Boxers AND MT fighters , as WELL as San Shou/San Da fighters . I( LOVE the sports of Boxing AND Muay Thai ! I just realise that tehy ARE SPORTS and as such DO have Limitations ! YOU need to get off this Idea that everything you THINK is "Newer Is Better" because until Gravity , the Planet were Fighting on , the Laws of Physics , or The Human Body itself changes , the same old shit is going to work , my man .

I'd take Brazilizn jiu jitsu, boxing,muay thai and wrestling anyday. CHECK THE FACTS. The records speak for themselves.

You have no Idea what the Facts even are , appearantly .

And as I already stated, Bruce Lee was NOT the greatest fighter ever!!! He was an actor!!! But he was a great martial artist and Jeet Kune Do is his legacy.

No , he wasnt a "great" anything other than perhaps a PR man . Oyama was Great , Ueshiba was great , Kimura was great , Musashi was great , Wang Shu Jiin was Great . Guys who hung it out there for EVERYONE to see , and put it to the test . Bruce got in ONE fight as an Adult and JKD is the worst legacy you could hope for . its MADE UP of sports styles and no one has ever even won a signifigant Sportfighting Title using it . Ever .

 

[Saintinistic]

Bruce Lee had good concepts. I dont really care if he wasnt the first to have the themes he suggests, because they are a common sense. there are also few original ideas anyhow, so whether he ripped them off or corrupted other versions, the result is the same.

I dont think he was a great fighter, but certainly had great ideas, be they his or not, someone had to say them.

arguing over it is pointless, and like debating religion. we all see what we want to see.

we can suck grandmaster cock all we like, and debate the TRUE creators but unless we actually try life ourselves, it doesnt matter who made who. we all mongrel our styles, mix n match, bend the rules, and talk through our arses, but as long as we arent as full in life as we are on line, then all is good.

 

[Djimbe]

Bruce Lee had good concepts. I dont really care if he wasnt the first to have the themes he suggests, because they are a common sense. there are also few original ideas anyhow, so whether he ripped them off or corrupted other versions, the result is the same.

I dont think he was a great fighter, but certainly had great ideas, be they his or not, someone had to say them.

arguing over it is pointless, and like debating religion. we all see what we want to see.

we can suck grandmaster cock all we like, and debate the TRUE creators but unless we actually try life ourselves, it doesnt matter who made who. we all mongrel our styles, mix n match, bend the rules, and talk through our arses, but as long as we arent as full in life as we are on line, then all is good.

All of the above I really have no Argument with , but does that mean that if I agree with the Concepts above and espouse them loudly enough that I should also get on the "Greatest Fighter Of All Time" list ?

Are you KIDDING me ? In anything else we look at greatness by ACHIEVEMENT , not HYPE . In the case of Lee , hes 0% of the former and 100% of the latter .

 

[Saintinistic]

No (to the first paragraph), that would be too presumptuous and show the goal was not personal/social/cultural growth but fame. he was guilty, sure. but marketing sure does boost a persons standing in social views. he took advantage of teh white suckers, and the rest is history. the American marketing sure did push the guy forward. and he feel for their star struck awe. like ultimate power corrupting, and all that jazz.

he found his purpose, for better or worse. and regardless of his originality, changed the way people think about things martial. did it for me, but im still not interested in JKD, or wing chung. to each their own, at the end of it all.

I dont believe he is worthy of greatest fighter, but of concepts that are common sense. we should all have similar ideals about training.

but the squeaky wheel gets the most grease. this time it was fame.
a shitty product and a great product all sell if the marketing is grand.

but too much time spent chasing wastes of time.

 

[redsamurai]

this is still going??........FFFAAAAAYYYYYYDOOOOORRR.



of all the "known" fighters in any discipline......this man would rock that ass!! Most complete "competing" MMA fighter ever.......and by competing I mean someone who's out there and known. The "actual" best fighter ever will never accurately be known......ever.......so useless discussion.

 

[mekannik]

Mark Kerr (pre drug treatment, early in his career).

 

[redsamurai]

Mark Kerr (pre drug treatment, early in his career).

over fedor??......

 

[mekannik]

over fedor??......

A young fresh Kerr was a joy to watch. Physique, unbelievable. Takedowns, unequaled. Ground & pound, brutal.

Rule changes nullified his style of fighting (per Bas Ruttan) <= another possibility.

 

[redsamurai]

A young fresh Kerr was a joy to watch. Physique, unbelievable. Takedowns, unequaled. Ground & pound, brutal.

Rule changes nullified his style of fighting (per Bas Ruttan) <= another possibility.

I have no doubt he'd be able to take fedor down.......but Fedor is even better on his back then he is on top. The man is sick.......he's every bit as good as Kerr in Kerr's own strengths.......couple that with his standup and Kerr is fucked!! I honestly think if Kerr even got to take Fedor down he'd be in some sick lock or choke within a minute. When Kerr was fighting most guys just succumbed to the ground and pound........now guys are figthing out of it better to the point where there's some fighters that actually prefer to be on their backs and out of someone's guard. Fedor can be outwrestled for sure.....he has been on numerous occassions. But beaten is a different story.

 

[mekannik]

I have no doubt he'd be able to take fedor down.......but Fedor is even better on his back then he is on top. The man is sick.......he's every bit as good as Kerr in Kerr's own strengths.......couple that with his standup and Kerr is fucked!! I honestly think if Kerr even got to take Fedor down he'd be in some sick lock or choke within a minute. When Kerr was fighting most guys just succumbed to the ground and pound........now guys are figthing out of it better to the point where there's some fighters that actually prefer to be on their backs and out of someone's guard. Fedor can be outwrestled for sure.....he has been on numerous occassions. But beaten is a different story.

Which ties into my prior statement - the 'ground and pound' game has changed significantly. Remember the original UFC? Groin shots (cheap in my opinion, unnecessary, unsportsmanlike) and elbows & knees to the face (Kerr's version) have been ruled out.

I have never seen Fedor fight, so I can not comment on him. My opinion is on the younger incarnation of Kerr and what is his A-game WAS.

 

[Djimbe]

dude , look into Fedor on Youtube , even look into his old Sambo championchip matches - his "wrestling' (moreover his takedown game) is on par with ANYONES .

 

[redsamurai]

dude , look into Fedor on Youtube , even look into his old Sambo championchip matches - his "wrestling' (moreover his takedown game) is on par with ANYONES .

which is why he's the best......but he has been outwrestled initially by a "few" guys. I was actually shocked to see how bad Hunt handled him in this respect.......he had to resort to a key lock to beat Hunt. But Randleman and Coleman can outwrestle Fedor......they just can't "beat" him once they have him on the ground.

 

[Anthony Starks]

I have never seen Fedor fight, so I can not comment on him.

You're on a martial arts board and you've never taken the time to watch one of, if the the, best martial artist on the planet?!?

 

[mekannik]

You're on a martial arts board and you've never taken the time to watch one of, if the the, best martial artist on the planet?!?

Actually we are on a health and fitness website with a martial arts board. I actually work out and train, part-time, with martial arts.

So what is your point? Have you watched Kerr's early fights? Rutten's? Every single fighter listed and then some? Go simmer down.

 

[Yarg!]

Mark Kerr (pre drug treatment, early in his career).

id say fedor now was better than a roided kerr in his prime. kerr was very one dimensional. his striking wasnt very crisp and he relied primarily on the takedown to get the ground and pound. a simulated scenario as to what will happen if fedor and kerr fought would be to look at fedor vs coleman 1 and 2. coleman relies on the same tactic using his on par, if not superior wrestling skills. both matches his takedowns were nullified, as was his gnp and he was submitted. in the 2nd match he also took a ridiculous beating to the face.

 

[redsamurai]

don't assume that fedor isn't on something by the way he looks.........he's not worried about chiseled abs, although his are probably harder than anyone's......you just can't see them. But he's definitely taking stuff just like everyone in pride.

id say fedor now was better than a roided kerr in his prime. kerr was very one dimensional. his striking wasnt very crisp and he relied primarily on the takedown to get the ground and pound. a simulated scenario as to what will happen if fedor and kerr fought would be to look at fedor vs coleman 1 and 2. coleman relies on the same tactic using his on par, if not superior wrestling skills. both matches his takedowns were nullified, as was his gnp and he was submitted. in the 2nd match he also took a ridiculous beating to the face.

 

[rgjujitsu]

Uh, they still allow knees/kicks to the face of a downed opponent in Pride's Japan shows so Fedor has been in the same situations Kerr fought in. Fujita, who beat Kerr and did well against Fedor is the only similar opponent. The weaknesses of both Kerr and Fedor played well to the strength's of Fujita. Fedor is an unorthodox striker but hits with a lot of power and has good takedowns and excellent subs. Fujita gave him troubles and actually rocked him because he could absorb the blows and Fedor had trouble taking him down but Fedor eventually won. But Kerr had poor striking and Fujita was a good enough wrestler to make Kerr expend a lot of energy underneath him going for the double that he eventually gave up and ate a lot of knees. IMHO the best p4p fighter, for 1 round at least, is BJ Penn. Sure the heavyweights would destroy him but p4p he is by far technically superior to anyone in all facets of the game. But his cardio sux.

 

[Djimbe]

\
So what is your point? Have you watched Kerr's early fights? Rutten's? Every single fighter listed and then some? Go simmer down.

umm , yeah , actually .

 

[AzaThoth]

That this particular topic has gotten as far as it has, takes me from my original mirth to headshaking apathy.
Filibusters ad nauseam by some genetic aberration trying to pass itself off as some eloquent authority that has the uncanny ability to break someone "in half with a burrito fart" really lends credence to this...non compos mentis. As, if!
I never knew that a septic bowel qualified anyone as an expert, or as an authority on much of anything, and to blame this sepsis on a lowly burrito announces this condescending blowhard for what "it" really is; a plus four hundred pounds, flatulent snackaholic with an open mouth policy. Yo quiero Taco Bell!
Greatest accomplishments to date? Probably flat feet and hemorroids.
Knowing how to navigate the confines of his own fantasies might make him an expert in his own dementia, but in the real world, which he knows nothing about, he's admittedley just a bad smell. Certified too.

Now if this corpulent clown really wants to get noticed and do something noteworthy, it's common knowledge that fat things float. Yep. Just like Ivory soap.
So he might want to put an apple in his mouth and float himself down the Mississippi river.
The buoyant bozo could then tell anyone that asks him that he's Tom Sawyer and that he's looking for Huckleberry Finn.
Anyone that he inveigled with a Temptations Slide would probably believe him.

What's that?! Another filibuster coming? More poomses and pompadours? Waxing poetic? Monkey "sucks" peach?
Meh.

 

[Djimbe]

youre a bitch .

If youre going to insuilt someone , Keep It Simple , Stupid .

Any Time , Any Place .

Talk to my hands .

 

[palehorse51]

youre a bitch .

If youre going to insuilt someone , Keep It Simple , Stupid .

Any Time , Any Place .

Talk to my hands .

Such an intelligent windbag resorting to "youre a bitch"

Shaolin technique? ROFLMAO

LOLOLOLOLOL.............................................

 

[Djimbe]

Intellect realises when its time is wasted . why bother with more than tyhe likes of you two are worth ?

Youre a bitch , as well , and if I see you yould better apologise to me or Ill make you lick my taint .

 

[youngguns]

lol

 

[palehorse51]

Better shut up or ill beat you with my 2 ft. long shaolin monkey dildo, then make you lick my swollen clit .

WTF??

 

[Djimbe]

easy to see where your fantasy life lies . Well , if being a Bottom like that is your thing Im sure there are FBB's that you can pay by the hour for the above .

 

[redsamurai]

wow.....lick my taint, shaolin monkey dildo.....wtf guys??


both of you seriously need a sit down and realize what you brought into a MMA discussion..........this is how you talk to your friends when you're fucking around with each other..........not when you're being serious like this, else you look like serious flaming homo's....

especially you dj....you're like 400 pounds.......did you really feel so threatened by internet words that you needed to tell another man to lick your taint??......

 

[Djimbe]

Samurai :

Honestly , Im with you , and you know that most of the time , even with ppl that disagree with me Im perfectly respectful , but if were just going to do the Insult thing , why not take it Immediately to its utterly stupid bitter end . And honestly I didnt NEED to tell him , I just think its funny . And if he has the balls to act like that face to face (with I seriously doubt - ppl say a LOT of dumb crapola behind theyre keypads) then perhaps he needs his mouth washed out with a lil 400 lb Man-Taint - I find its a better deterrent than soap .

So yeah , if they want to make Personal attacks , why not come see me ? I run a proffessional MA school , and my Door is Open if Im here . I have NO problem accepting challengers . If you think Im out of shape , or I am giving out bad sadvice , or you want to shut me up , feel free to come out to Allentown . But I fight without gear , and no mats . Otherwise just close it down . Put up or shut up .

 

[redsamurai]

then perhaps he needs his mouth washed out with a lil 400 lb Man-Taint - I find its a better deterrent than soap .

.

dude, you just made me cackle uncontrollably for easily 5 minutes.......that's seriously the most appalling visual I may have ever been given, and yes......aside from chris rock's "tossed salad man".......that may be the the funniest deterrence method on the books.

 

[Djimbe]

Thanks , Im sorry I wasnt more Obvious about the "Nah Nah Nah Boo Bu We Hate You Too" place I thought I was going so blatantly . Next time Il try to be more pedantic with these idiots .

 

[looking to lean]

Pride has 10x the amount of quality fighters as the UFC does. Pride also has a better set-up.

Pride may have a better entrance and opening, but as far as fighters? come on! they put japs in there non stop. the japs.... altho are great fighters and have alot of heart are by no means near the best out there.

 

[JonPee]

Rickson Gracie's "legend" is nothing but a bunch of BS

 

[Djimbe]

Pride has 10x the amount of quality fighters as the UFC does. Pride also has a better set-up.

Pride may have a better entrance and opening, but as far as fighters? come on! they put japs in there non stop. the japs.... altho are great fighters and have alot of heart are by no means near the best out there.

Wow dude . Could that be a lil more Racist ?

Besides , there are GREAT Japanese fighters - Enson , Saku , Sudo ...

 

[palehorse51]

Samurai :

Honestly , Im with you , and you know that most of the time , even with ppl that disagree with me Im perfectly respectful , but if were just going to do the Insult thing , why not take it Immediately to its utterly stupid bitter end . And honestly I didnt NEED to tell him , I just think its funny . And if he has the balls to act like that face to face (with I seriously doubt - ppl say a LOT of dumb crapola behind theyre keypads) then perhaps he needs his mouth washed out with a lil 400 lb Man-Taint - I find its a better deterrent than soap .

So yeah , if they want to make Personal attacks , why not come see me ? I run a proffessional MA school , and my Door is Open if Im here . I have NO problem accepting challengers . If you think Im out of shape , or I am giving out bad sadvice , or you want to shut me up , feel free to come out to Allentown . But I fight without gear , and no mats . Otherwise just close it down . Put up or shut up .

The only thing about you that scares me is the thought of your smelly,rotten snatch. You have shown yourself to be nothing but a egotistical know it all, full of hot air.I love to fight. You scare no one with your empty talk of fighting without gear and mats. I roll with guys tougher than your cake eating ass on a daily basis.You think you are the only guy in here that loves to brawl?? Hey stupid, you are in a Martial Arts forum wake the fuck up. If you cant take guys disagreeing with your opinion, you are in the wrong place. You wanna resort to childish personal attacks? well, we can go there or anywhere else for that matter. But dont act all innocent like you arent the one that took it there.

You rate no better than talk of monkey dildos and fat boy taint. So sit back and let the twinkies keep the shit from spewing out of your mouth. And slap a maxi on your foul bitch taint.

The fact that you think sparring doesnt make someone a better fighter pretty much exposes you as the outdated, Kata, Kung Fu coreographed fight jackass that you are.

The condecending know it all tone of your posts is fucking annoying and hilarious at the same time.

 

[palehorse51]

Palehorse51 "you learn from fighting and sparring"

No , no you do NOT .

This right here exposes Djimbe as the armchair martial artist that he is. It is obvious you have never rolled. You are a kata, choeograped routine dancer.

You obviously dont train in BJJ. The Gracie training method of sparring or "rolling" at the end of training sessions is something you have not experienced.

And to the shithead up above dissing Rickson Gracies Legend, you are a fucking stooge to disrespect Rickson. You obviously dont know shit.

 

[palehorse51]

Rickson Gracie's "legend" is nothing but a bunch of BS

You wanna disrespect RICKSON???? You fucking jackass.....That avatar is very fitting jonpee you fem. You OBVIOUSLY dont know a damn thing about martial arts to disrespect RICKSON. FUCK YOU!

 

[thelion2005]

Bill Wallace.

I never saw anyone so fearless and gifted at fighting.

 

[redsamurai]

No , no you do NOT .

You LEARN by Drilling through Progressive Resistance . If I give you a Basketball and tell you to learn to Shoot , and the ONLY shooting you EVER do is in a Game situation you will NEVER be a 3 Point Shooter . Your body will NEVER have the time to develop the Mechanics needed to hit the shot properly . You learn to shoot FIRST , and THEN you learn to do it under Game Pressure . First you learn the Technique so its like Breathing , and only THEN do you learn to Apply it in ANY given situation .

.

there is actually a good point here.......you don't put someone in a sparring situation before they know how to properly execute the basics. "However".....once that has been achieved.......without sparring you will "freeze" on the street when that first punch comes beelining for your face. The best way to win a fight on the steet is do " A FEW" very basic things VERY WELL.......but most importantly you can't be afraid to get hit. You have to know how to keep composure after getting hit.......that's almost paramount to winning a fight. My old school actually went one further......they said "To give a shot, you have to take a shot". They're emphasis put you in your opponents wheelhouse.......they trained you to either hit first, or take the shot in a way which allows you to immediately deliver a counter blow which ends the fight. No pretty boys that ddn't want to get hit would last there........lol

 

[palehorse51]

there is actually a good point here.......you don't put someone in a sparring situation before they know how to properly execute the basics. "However".....once that has been achieved.......without sparring you will "freeze" on the street when that first punch comes beelining for your face. The best way to win a fight on the steet is do " A FEW" very basic things VERY WELL.......but most importantly you can't be afraid to get hit. You have to know how to keep composure after getting hit.......that's almost paramount to winning a fight. My old school actually went one further......they said "To give a shot, you have to take a shot". They're emphasis put you in your opponents wheelhouse.......they trained you to either hit first, or take the shot in a way which allows you to immediately deliver a counter blow which ends the fight. No pretty boys that ddn't want to get hit would last there........lol

Every training session should begin with conditioning/ drills move on to going over techniques for repetitions with a partner, and end with sparring.The fastest way to get good at fighting is by sparring, period. The one strike counter attack/ fight over stuff is totally unrealistic. An attacker or opponent is not going to stand still for you while you execute your technique. Nor are they going to attack in the exact way that you have practiced for a specific move. This is where sparring and sparring only teaches how to execute a technique on someone that is going all out, intent on stopping your technique and implementing their own.

 

[DirtBagDon]

Fedor by GNP

 

[DR.SAV]

Fedor is amazing!!! Heart of a lion

 

[Got Cajones?]

You wanna disrespect RICKSON???? You fucking jackass.....That avatar is very fitting jonpee you fem. You OBVIOUSLY dont know a damn thing about martial arts to disrespect RICKSON. FUCK YOU!

Dude you are right! only a stooge with absolutely zero martial arts knowledge would dis Rickson!!!!

 

[rfowler]

Simple Fedor would own them all.

 

[Micker]

LOL, Bruce Lee would get his ass beat down by todays guys. He is WAY too small to be anything but compared to pound for pound. His abilities got magnified by his movies that made him look super human. No disrepect, I love Bruce lee. He was a brilliant guy and an awesome martial artist, but he would get completely killed by many many people today. He couldn't even make the UFC cut.

Ali is a boxer not a fighter, there is a difference. In a boxing match, he could stand with anyone, in a fight he would get eaten alive.

I think Chuck Lidell is what a fighter should be. Tough as nails, knockout power, incredible takedown defense, laser guided punches etc.. The guy is an animal.

 

[Got Cajones?]

No , no you do NOT .

You are ignorant to think sparring isnt the best way to get good at fighting.
Palehorse51 is right.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

No disrespect to Bruce Lee... But who the fuck did he ever fought???



!

 

[Yarg!]

no sparring = no learning. end of discussion.

 

[ARMY]

Oddly enough , the 2 best fighters of all time arent on the list.
Nai Kanomtom - the Thai that defeated 12 burmese fighters back to back, during the siam / burma wars.

And more mordernly, Raymon Dekker. The only non thai to win Fighter of the year award in thailand.

Thats my 2 cents. Can I have my change plz.

 

[Djimbe]

Palehorse51 "you learn from fighting and sparring"



This right here exposes Djimbe as the armchair martial artist that he is. It is obvious you have never rolled. You are a kata, choeograped routine dancer.

You obviously dont train in BJJ. The Gracie training method of sparring or "rolling" at the end of training sessions is something you have not experienced.

"Rolling" is NOT Fighting . Its a training excercise NO DIFFERENT from (REAL) Taijiquan push hands done on the Floor . There is no CONTACT , and no HITTING , thus no need for RECOVERY . ANYONE can push hands and grapple every damned day . I SPAR between once a week to once a Month full contact with someone at my own level and somewhere near my size . And Id NEVER step that up to more than 2X a week , even when I was fighting heavily . If you dont know the difference then when you get hit for REAL by someone that has put REAL TIME into polishing their Tools , Stances , Footwork , Throws , and Power Generation you WILL be caught assed out .

 

[Djimbe]

there is actually a good point here.......you don't put someone in a sparring situation before they know how to properly execute the basics. "However".....once that has been achieved.......without sparring you will "freeze" on the street when that first punch comes beelining for your face. The best way to win a fight on the steet is do " A FEW" very basic things VERY WELL.......but most importantly you can't be afraid to get hit. You have to know how to keep composure after getting hit.......that's almost paramount to winning a fight. My old school actually went one further......they said "To give a shot, you have to take a shot". They're emphasis put you in your opponents wheelhouse.......they trained you to either hit first, or take the shot in a way which allows you to immediately deliver a counter blow which ends the fight. No pretty boys that ddn't want to get hit would last there........lol

Dude , I wholly agree with what youre saying here . And Ive NEVER advocated NOT sparring , its just not even REMOTELY plausible to do every day . Not in a system where you and your peers actually know how to HIT , and THROW . The body just dosent recouperate from that kind of trauma (when properly executed by ppl with Refined Technique) that quickly .

THe fact is that the "Fight Or Flight" trigger MUST be switched over to "FIGHT" before a student can be expected to assert themselves Violently in an aggressive physical confrontation . I have been known to jab a student in the face for HOURS waiting for them to figure out that I was NOT going to stop until they fought back .

Its trendy to waste a lot of time doing Halfassed Sparring these days . But the fact is that The AMOUNT of time you spend Sparring just isnt as great as is needed to getting the Techniques into the Muscular Memory themselves . Its the same with Music , you run a LOT of scales before you play gigs . And hell , you pretty much NEVER Improvise until the nioght of the show . but once your hands know ALL the moves PERFECTLY , doing so isnt so much a problem .

Sparring teaches you some good things , doing it too often or without proper prep can lead to bad habits as well .

 

[Djimbe]

Every training session should begin with conditioning/ drills move on to going over techniques for repetitions with a partner, and end with sparring.

Wrong . Never "teach" .

The fastest way to get good at fighting is by sparring, period.

No , the fastest way to get good at Fighting is actually learning how to fight , not flailing about like a Smacktard .

The one strike counter attack/ fight over stuff is totally unrealistic.

No , its called a Drill . Its how you learn what you are supposed to do when you Spar . Those Things have names like "Techniques" and "Counters" .

An attacker or opponent is not going to stand still for you while you execute your technique. Nor are they going to attack in the exact way that you have practiced for a specific move.

ANd if you let your Training Partners do this even in Drills then your school sucks . They should START OUT kind of like that , but by the time youre getting the hang of it they should be trying to take your head off with whatever it is youre working against .

Its called "Progressive Resistance" , and its not just for Bodybuilders !

This is where sparring and sparring only teaches how to execute a technique on someone that is going all out, intent on stopping your technique and implementing their own.

Wrong , thats what a Full-Stop Drill teaches . knowing what Im going to do before I do it dosent guarantee that you can stop me . Knowing the COUNTER dosent guarantee that you can prevail . If it did Cro Cop would NEVER AGAIN win with a High Kick . I mean , they KNOW hes going to throw it , right ?

SPARRING teaches you to read an opponent , setups, tactics , Trickery , commitment , working under pressure , working when fatigued , combination strings , flow ... *SIGH* you really should get better instruction , or actually GO to a class or two sometime .

 

[Djimbe]

You are ignorant to think sparring isnt the best way to get good at fighting.
Palehorse51 is right.

YOu are Ignorant to think that sparring alone will make you anything above the level of Yard Tard .

Sparring IS Important , its just not SOLELY Important . Heck , even if its "Most Important" its STILL not what you should do most OF .

ANYONE will tell you that the MOST Imprtant thing in Bodybuilding is eating . But if you ae 13 times a day and only went to the Gym once a month ? You NOT be a bodybuilder . Eating may be most Important , but LIFTING is what you do most of and Focus your energies doing .

 

[Djimbe]

No disrespect to Bruce Lee... But who the fuck did he ever fought???



!

THANK YOU !

 

[Djimbe]

no sparring = no learning. end of discussion.

no Tools , no sparring worth a damn , so no learning .

End Of Discussion ?

 

[Yarg!]

no Tools , no sparring worth a damn , so no learning .

End Of Discussion ?

obviously i meant u also need to learn the techniques first. i thought this was implied. learn all the techniques u want, if you dont spar, you = useless. this is a no brainer.

using ur body builder reference, sparring would be the act of lifting the weights. u can eat perfectly. you can sleep perfectly. you read a million books on lifting weights perfectly. you can shadow lift the weights all day long. but i u dont step foot in the gym and lift the fucking weight you're wasting your time. haha wow what a perfectly analogy. i rule.

btw, LOL

at putting bruce lee and ali even on this discussion. this is of ALL time. to be even considered you mus thave fought atleast someone that is alittle somethign more in their arsenal than just punches, or even fought someone at ALL. id nominate fedor since hes the epitomy of well-roundedness and hes fought fighters of every caliber, and every style.

 

[InvictusMenachio]

The world's greatest fighter is Bernhard Goetz.

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id311.htm

 

[Yarg!]

*sigh too bad he didnt kill those thugs

 

[Saintinistic]

The real Charles Bronson. sweet. seems like we need more vigilantes running around. if every few days some mugger got shot, the place would be safer. if you dont mug, you dont get shot. sweet. sure, everyone could potentially just shot anyone. but I would bet that the guilty would suffer the most.

support vigilantes, they do what the law wont.

 

[redsamurai]

my god, the greatest quote ever....and it actually happened!!!

"You don't look too bad, here's another"


http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id311.htm

 

[Micker]

Bruce lee would get his ass kicked by just about anyone on that list, unless he was the star in the movie.

 

[skacorica]

Only one fighter is referred to as "The Greatest", and that is the former Cassius Clay.

Do you honestly see Ali beating Fedor in a street fight?

 

[Djimbe]

obviously i meant u also need to learn the techniques first. i thought this was implied. learn all the techniques u want, if you dont spar, you = useless. this is a no brainer.

Where does ANYONE Imply that NO sparring is a good Idea ? That would be just as Retarded as the Idiots that think you can spar every class . You CANT . (and no "Rolling" is NOT Sparring , its 0 Impact) in REAL MT schools no one is going Full Contact the weeks b4 a big bout ! The fact is theyre going a LOT moree like what ppl make fun of TKD McDojos for during those tmes . The Pads are where you Toughen up , and your Heavy Sparring is done AFTER a big bout to work on your deffeciencies , not before .

using ur body builder reference, sparring would be the act of lifting the weights. u can eat perfectly. you can sleep perfectly. you read a million books on lifting weights perfectly. you can shadow lift the weights all day long. but i u dont step foot in the gym and lift the fucking weight you're wasting your time. haha wow what a perfectly analogy. i rule.

Lifting the Weights is akin to Drills with Progressive Resistance , NOT SPARRING . Sparring does NOT teach you to do techniques on Opponents successfully , it teaches you to think on your feet , strategize , not be afraid , and to keep your cool under pressure , all of wich is awesome , and TOTALLY NEEDED . In fact , without it training for fighting is impossible , but the problem is that though it may be Manditory in importance its not something you really need to spend most of your time doing . The fact is a bit of sparring goes a long way .

Shadowboxing/Formswork DO improve the combat abilities of the Fighter . In fact Jack Dempsey said that its the most IMportant thing that a Boxer can do in his training .



btw, LOL

at putting bruce lee and ali even on this discussion. this is of ALL time. to be even considered you mus thave fought atleast someone that is alittle somethign more in their arsenal than just punches, or even fought someone at ALL. id nominate fedor since hes the epitomy of well-roundedness and hes fought fighters of every caliber, and every style.

 

[asianlover]

why isn't Rocky Marciano there?

 

[Yarg!]

Where does ANYONE Imply that NO sparring is a good Idea ? That would be just as Retarded as the Idiots that think you can spar every class . You CANT .

ok thanks for the 411. i never stated that anyone was implying that no sparring is a good idea

(and no "Rolling" is NOT Sparring , its 0 Impact) this is your opinion. tho i disagree, since to me sparring is when your partner is resisting 100 percent (Thus rolling), but i respect your opinion in REAL MT schools no one is going Full Contact the weeks b4 a big bout ! The fact is theyre going a LOT moree like what ppl make fun of TKD McDojos for during those tmes . no ofcourse not. not even in bjj or even judo as the risks of injuries are too great. but the nights leading up to it maybe, 1.5 weeks- 1 week away is just sparring constantly- maybe in muay thai its not every night like bjj, but those fuckers spar ALOT. well depends on how lazy they are, haha The Pads are where you Toughen up , and your Heavy Sparring is done AFTER a big bout to work on your deffeciencies , not before .



Lifting the Weights is akin to Drills with Progressive Resistance , NOT SPARRING . Sparring does NOT teach you to do techniques on Opponents successfully , it teaches you to think on your feet , strategize , not be afraid , and to keep your cool under pressure , all of wich is awesome , and TOTALLY NEEDED . In fact , without it training for fighting is impossible , but the problem is that though it may be Manditory in importance its not something you really need to spend most of your time doing . The fact is a bit of sparring goes a long way .

again i disagree with this statement. to me sparring is the lack of cooperation- resistance. when you read a book its like reading a manual, a scripture or consulting your trainer, when you shadow lift (tho no one really does this) , its liek shadow boxing to get the movements down, and the act of lifting itself is counter resisting the resistance of the weights. but i do agree with your definition of what sparring does and does not teach

Shadowboxing/Formswork DO improve the combat abilities of the Fighter . In fact Jack Dempsey said that its the most IMportant thing that a Boxer can do in his training .

ive never stated that it didnt. like i said learning the techniques is implied. learning as well as practising , ofcourse. no one can just watch 2 ppl doing bjj, jump right in and start rolling hoping to pick up his entire grappling arsenal this way. ive also never stated that sparring is the most important thing a person can do. i just said if you dont sparr , youre completely useless. which anyone can agree with.

you dont think fedor can beat the shit out of anyone on that list? if he fight a pro boxer/ kickboxer, he'd take them down , gnp and submit him. if he fights a grappler he would keep it standing. hes a very well rounded person and ofcourse, well roundedness is the key to being a great martial artist. you cant be the best fighter ever if youre just a boxer , or kickboxer. as soon as you run into a wrestler/ bjj/judo guy, youre gonna get takendown and submitted pretty quickly. also if youre just a bjj guy or judo guy or whatever theres the chance you can get your shit knocked the fuck out. as someone who practises bjj i am well aware of my short comings (lack of ability to throw a punch) but im working on it by opening my horizons and taking muay thai. obviously someone who is trained in escrima can beat up both the grappler/striker with his damn sticks, but take those away and we're back to square one- the striker willjust beat the shit out of him and the grappler will choke him unconcious. actually now that i think about it, fedor may be the king of unarmed but for the biggest most well rounded person on earth, its probably dan insanato, lol. the guys done EVERYTHING.

i replied to your post in your quote.

 

[Anthony Starks]

why isn't Rocky Marciano there?

So many reasons

 

[Saintinistic]

what? no mention of David Hasselhoff?

 

[instant.muscle]

He got beat by Tito but I agree. Pride has 10x the amount of quality fighters as the UFC does. Pride also has a better set-up. The UFC is just running things here in America a lot smarter right now...

it was a split decision which means it was a bullshit call, if u watch the fight tito was running from van, van is a much better fighter who would destroy any fighter in UFC's light heavy class

 

[bkc]

it was a split decision which means it was a bullshit call, if u watch the fight tito was running from van, van is a much better fighter who would destroy any fighter in UFC's light heavy class

I'm not sure if Pride is the better organization anymore. Some of their top fighters have jumped ship, and the UFC has added some good talent since I posted that. I'd say about half the weight classes are better in the UFC and about half in Pride. However the UFC easily has the best single weight class at 170lbs.

 

[crazyjoe]

Fedor is the most dominant fighter in MMA history. Nobody will come along that can compare to him for a long time. Check this out if have'nt seen it already.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-6UVNpAXo&mode=related&search=

 

[Saintinistic]

we dont know the future so we cant say if anyone will be better or not.

 

[instant.muscle]

either Fedor or Silva, who voted for matt hughes?

 

[markmark]

St. Pierre is bad to the bone.. this guy is the future fighter of all time..

 

[flex229]

jeff speakman,,the kung fu jew.