The French Connection

[Spidey]

There is an interesting article in the New York Times that everyone should read. It details how the French have been secretly brokering deals between China and Syria to sell solid missile propellants and binders to Iraq in DIRECT defiance of the UN sanctions. No wonder they don't want us to go in there. Why, they could be exposed as the duplicitous hypocrites they are. How embarrassing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/13/opinion/13SAFI.html

I know this thread will soon be moved to the chat board but I know many on the anabolic board (like myself) never go there and I wanted you all to see this.

OK, flame away.

-Spidey

 

[Spidey]

OK, the link didn't come out. How does one post links on the board? I guess you can cut and paste and get there that way. Sorry for the inconvenience.

-Spidey

 

[bigjaw]

One could say - so what?
So what if the French brokered deals - we know that many UN nations have been brokering and selling directly all sorts of goodies to all sorts of lunatic regimes both with overt and suspected links to all kinds of terroist activities. It's all just another example of how money is the bottom line - not common sense nor morality.
Further - even tho the French, it must be said are 'posturing' for want of a better word at least they are showing what can happen when the UN doesn't act in the way it's 'leading light' would like it to. Let's see what the US does now - I'll bet you a few amps of test Bush goes into Iraq a/with or without UN sanction and b/without either the majority of his own nation's or other peoples' wishes.

Anyways - how is this going to help my training?

 

[Spidey]

I'll bet you a few amps of test Bush goes into Iraq a/with or without UN sanction and b/without either the majority of his own nation's or other peoples' wishes.

Anyways - how is this going to help my training?

Actually, all the polls I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) show that the majority of Americans (55%) are for going into Iraq with or without UN sanction.

It won't help your training at all . Like I said previously, I know a lot of my friends on this board never go to the chat board and I wanted them to see this. Don't worry about it though, I am sure the thread will be moved before long.

Incidently, I don't see what the big deal is about off-topic posts. If you don't want to "waste your time" reading off-topic stuff, just don't open and read obviously off-topic threads. Problem solved.

-Spidey

 

[jubei]

Kynoselen comes from france. Lets not be so hastey, I need to stock up first.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

The truth is that, contrary to your assertions or even those of the New York Times, France may not actually be in violation of the U.N. Sanctions by doing this as the sanctions, do, in fact, allow Iraq to develop and possess missles that have a fly range of 93 miles or less. Maybe you need to research this before you go pointing fingers and yelling hypocracy and violation of U.N. sanctions!!! Like the U.S. hasn't violated U.N. resolutions or even the Geneva Conventions in very recent times? What does this make us? Technically war criminals if you know anything about international law and post World War II history.

As for the allowable missle distance, this distance was determined to make sure that they couldn't reach Israel or other targets the U.S. deemed important to us. The present discussion over the Al Samoud missles has to do with the fact that the missles that they did end up producing, did, in fact, exceed the allowable fly distance "somewhat." Iraq has now come around and after resisting doing so has now agreed to destroy them. So to recap, Iraq is technically allowed to purchase AND produce these things but they are not allowed to use them to manufacture a missle that exceeds certain tightly specified parameters. These technical parameters go down to the minutia of even how strong a missle engine test stand can be to make sure they can't test anything too powerful. So before you accuse the French or anyone else for hypocracy (and I am not denying that they are hypocrites like everyone else either), maybe you should be looking at the Bush administration straight up, he's as guilty as all of them. Don't forget about all the "manufactured" but latter discredited pieces of "hard evidence" against Iraq that suddenly were proven to be misquotes of what UN inspection reports actually said or were completely manufactured and had no basis in fact like the papers from Niger. So where was the corporate New York Times in investigative reporting there? They simply took the fascist Bush administrations propoganda at face value and printed it and didn't bother even looking up the reports to read for themselves or they would have been the ones to have broken the story. Great investigative reporting on the part of the so-called "mainstream" media!!! That's why I prefer NOT to get my news from the conservative corporate owned media [or should we call it for what it is--propoganda that the reader is stupid enough to actually pay for!!!]. They simply do not give anything close to ALL the facts. It is better to research your news out from a variety of foreign and domestic sources to form a more valid and broader perspective of the BS that is really going on. And yes, that includes reading stuff that you really disagree with too. Sometimes your opponents have valid points and accurate information as well!

But the truth is that Bush and his fascist oil executive cronies/cohorts could give a rat's behind about what you or I think or even what the American public thinks. He is going to do what he is going to do with you or without you on board. The only thing you need to worry about is how much "tighter" because of the war on terror things are going to get on trying to get workout supplements. Afterall, it was HIS father that signed the bill into law criminalizing anything anabolic against the unanimous testimony of the panels consisting of the both DEA AND the FDA who saw no purpose in imposing criminal penalties (like prison) on stuff that people used on themselves at that time.

Now that I had my ten minutes to rant, I am also left wondering how all of this is going to help me get bigger AND leaner as well!!!

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"Actually, all the polls I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) show that the majority of Americans (55%) are for going into Iraq with or without UN sanction. "

Hmmm..........all conservative corporate media sources...........did you ever wonder how they determine who is actually included in the poll and who isn't? And how they actually determine "who is representative" of the American "cross section?" Funny thing is that I don't know a single person now or throughout the course of my life that was ever included in one of their so called "official" polls............any fool knows that statistics can be manipulated to demonstrate many things...even things that completely contradict each other if not carefully done..........Polls can also be biased just by the way the question is presented and what the "allowable" answer choices are restricted too.......this is aside from any bias by how the "population" is actually "scientifically" determined and selected............

 

[bigjaw]

bros - while my body may not be gettin bigger you appear to be broadening my mind and expanding my vocab...

 

[Spidey]

The truth is that, contrary to your assertions or even those of the New York Times, France may not actually be in violation of the U.N. Sanctions by doing this as the sanctions, do, in fact, allow Iraq to develop and possess missles that have a fly range of 93 miles or less. Maybe you need to research this before you go pointing fingers and yelling hypocracy and violation of U.N. sanctions!!! Like the U.S. hasn't violated U.N. resolutions or even the Geneva Conventions in very recent times? What does this make us? Technically war criminals if you know anything about international law and post World War II history.

As for the allowable missle distance, this distance was determined to make sure that they couldn't reach Israel or other targets the U.S. deemed important to us. The present discussion over the Al Samoud missles has to do with the fact that the missles that they did end up producing, did, in fact, exceed the allowable fly distance "somewhat." Iraq has now come around and after resisting doing so has now agreed to destroy them. So to recap, Iraq is technically allowed to purchase AND produce these things but they are not allowed to use them to manufacture a missle that exceeds certain tightly specified parameters. These technical parameters go down to the minutia of even how strong a missle engine test stand can be to make sure they can't test anything too powerful. So before you accuse the French or anyone else for hypocracy (and I am not denying that they are hypocrites like everyone else either), maybe you should be looking at the Bush administration straight up, he's as guilty as all of them. Don't forget about all the "manufactured" but latter discredited pieces of "hard evidence" against Iraq that suddenly were proven to be misquotes of what UN inspection reports actually said or were completely manufactured and had no basis in fact like the papers from Niger. So where was the corporate New York Times in investigative reporting there? They simply took the fascist Bush administrations propoganda at face value and printed it and didn't bother even looking up the reports to read for themselves or they would have been the ones to have broken the story. Great investigative reporting on the part of the so-called "mainstream" media!!! That's why I prefer NOT to get my news from the conservative corporate owned media [or should we call it for what it is--propoganda that the reader is stupid enough to actually pay for!!!]. They simply do not give anything close to ALL the facts. It is better to research your news out from a variety of foreign and domestic sources to form a more valid and broader perspective of the BS that is really going on. And yes, that includes reading stuff that you really disagree with too. Sometimes your opponents have valid points and accurate information as well!

But the truth is that Bush and his fascist oil executive cronies/cohorts could give a rat's behind about what you or I think or even what the American public thinks. He is going to do what he is going to do with you or without you on board. The only thing you need to worry about is how much "tighter" because of the war on terror things are going to get on trying to get workout supplements. Afterall, it was HIS father that signed the bill into law criminalizing anything anabolic against the unanimous testimony of the panels consisting of the both DEA AND the FDA who saw no purpose in imposing criminal penalties (like prison) on stuff that people used on themselves at that time.

Now that I had my ten minutes to rant, I am also left wondering how all of this is going to help me get bigger AND leaner as well!!!

Wow, That's a pretty long read, LOL. OK, did you actually READ the article? I tend to think not or you would have seen that the propellants and binders in question are for the production of long range missiles in violation of the UN sanctions. Apparently, shorter range missiles do not require the same binders and propellants. Secondly, even if the materials could be used in short range missiles, which are allowed, selling these materials to Iraq IS in violation of the UN sanctions because all sales of these materials must be first approved by the UN security council. Maybe you are the one that needs to bone up on this stuff before accusing me of accusing others, etc.

Also, please enlighten me as to exactly which UN sanctions the USA has violated recently. Please be specific as to which ones we first claimed to be all for and then under the table did the exact opposite, like France appears to have done.

The contention that the media is controlled by "evil" conservative forces is laughable. With the exception of perhaps Fox and one or two others, the mainstream media is very liberal minded. Think of all the big names like Dan Rather, Ted Koppel, and others. They are all quite liberal.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and get news from many sources INCLUDING those you consider conservative. In your own words, your opponents can have valid points and accurate information as well; even if you disagree with them.

I have to go for now but I will log on again later to continue this debate (assuming the thread hasn't been moved). There is still many points I dissagree with in your previous reply. I simply don't have the time at this moment to address them all.

-Spidey

 

[BigAndy69]

I think anavar is a great addition to any cycle.

 

[jh1]

maybe we should 'accidently on purpose' drop a bomb on a French assest as we did back when we delt with Lebanon.. .

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"The contention that the media is controlled by "evil" conservative forces is laughable. With the exception of perhaps Fox and one or two others, the mainstream media is very liberal minded. "

I didn't say "evil"........what I implied was "self serving corporate interests......I would say that you were the one, like all right wingers that seem to place some good vs evil "valuation" on everything......and the reality that you and others like you seem to miss is that corporations, like people tend to work in their own best financial interests and consequently tend to have a much more conservative view of the world........they will tolerate more liberal views when it suits them but overall, the trend is WAY more conservative than liberal.

Take for example, General Electric which makes lots of money as a major defense contractor among many other things, why would they wan't to promote anything that is anti defense spending, for example, and consequently NOT in their own interests? Jack Welch, former CEO of General Electric was an avid Bush supporter........he also said, after firing those newspersons that did not fall in line with his marching orders and was criticized for it "I see nothing wrong with a corporation marshalling all the resources available to it to further its own interests" I take that to also include filtering and subverting the news that is reported to you as well by his own admissions and actions....and I will leave it to you to determine which of the "big three media conglomerates" that they own....MicroSoft, owner of MSNBC, was basically "let off the hook" on a major anti-trust suit by the Bush administration. The suit was started under the Clinton administration so who do you think that THEY supported in the election? Hint, they had "discussions" with the Bush folks before the election so they probably had a pretty good take on what the possible scenarios were. Obviously the Clinton administration was not leaning towards giving them a good deal. So why would you expect them to support the Dems?

We are all self serving to a point. The morality thing is only used for a matter of convenience because people in general are actually stupid enough to buy into it when it has nothing to do with anything that actually goes on. It has nothing to do with anything except persuading a rather ignorant general population with getting on board with the program--whatever that happens to be at the time and who is pulling the strings at that point in time. The problem is that people have been mindlessly parroting "liberal media" for so long that the mindless masses have just accepted it as "fact" without ever questioning as to what exactly qualifies it as "liberal?" So I guess that I get tired of people reading the "mainstream media" and assuming everything THEY print is a FACT like all the "official surveys" and never even doing enough thinking to wonder if maybe there might be some "other" reality out there or if what they are saying, ahem.........could be a little self serving or biased? And some of what they print might actually be completely fictitious? It would be nice if people even gave it enough thought to see if it even "feels" like it makes sense. But that is obviously never going to happen. So things continue as they are.

Oh, and just because the New York Times reported something about the type of rocket fuel supposedly involved, just how many rocket scientists do you think that they have on staff to properly evaluate that this information is even accurate before they printed it? Or did they just take it the way the propoganda types spun it from the White House? And why would I believe the New York Times? Didn't they also report all of the evidence that Bush cited for invading Iraq and never even bother to check out the stuff that is easy to find out like the contents of declassified UN inspection reports or even try to verify if some of the reports even existed? So if they didn't do even that level of work, why should I trust their supposed "expertise" on rockets/missiles or weapons of mass destruction.

You obviously are like most of the rest of this country You may not care what the entire rest of the world thinks about Bush's "obsession" with Sadaam Hussein but the facts are that inspite of all the heavy duty arm twisting, they clearly do NOT see this the same way as Bush, and you do for that matter. So that brings up the question, why is that? Maybe you should sign on line and read some of their news media and see what they have to say. One thing is for certain is that what you read will NOT even slightly ressemble what you see reported or DON'T see reported here. Some of the things that DON'T get reported here are actually quite shocking to be honest. But they do get reported consistently in many other countries. And again why is that? You could say the standard mantra that keeps you and the public at large from asking the right questions, or any questions for that matter--"oh well that is because they are all socialist pigs." The entire rest of the world is socialist? That certainly is news to me.

So I stand firm when I critisize you for calling the French hypocrites. "Never mind the sliver in the other person's eye when you have a mote sticking out of your eye." Sound familiar? In case you didn't know, a mote is a f*cking beam that is so big it totally blinds you to your own problems but somehow you can see someone else's hypocrasy with total clarity!!!

 

[Otis2]

Norcal... CNN and MSNBC are conservative? What planet are you from?

 

[Riker29]

This is off-topic.

Move it.

And by the way, fuck the French. Those bastards, We have tens of thousands of dead US soldiers buried in cemetaries over there, all who died to save their sorry asses in no less than 2 major wars in the past 100 years. They would all be speaking German if it was not for us. Fuck them.

Someone needs to send them soap for their smelly selves, razors for their chick's armpits, and muzzles for their loud mouths.

This is off-topic.

Move it.

 

[_Yossarian_]

20% of french voters are in favor of a communist state. Based on this I would just like to say that the french are severely fucked in the head. That is all...

PS I have read the article but none of the posts in this thread....

 

[Peyomp]

You know who sells the most weapons to "Axis of Evil" state Iran? We do. The US of A.

No one's hands are clean, and many countries have been openly violating the trade embargo in various ways for some time.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"Norcal... CNN and MSNBC are conservative? What planet are you from?"

Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time!!!

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"And by the way, fuck the French. Those bastards, We have tens of thousands of dead US soldiers buried in cemetaries over there, all who died to save their sorry asses in no less than 2 major wars in the past 100 years. They would all be speaking German if it was not for us. Fuck them."

And we would not have won our independence from the British if it weren't for their intervention at the critical moment in history. So frankly, they don't owe us squat and we don't owe them squat either. And we didn't enter the Second World War to save their butts either........seems to me that the Japanese choose to bomb us without provacation and then the Germans, their allies, declared war on us and we immediately returned the favor.

 

[Otis2]

Let me guess Norcal... Berkley? That great bastion of liberal drivel? Grow up.

 

[Riker29]

I dont know of many cemetaries in the US with French bodies lined up due to their effortrs to help us in any war.

When you get out of school and get a life with real responsibilities, you will see how the world really works.

Will someone, please, ANY Mod, please move this bullshit off topic thread to the chat board before more dumbasses make idiots of themselves.

Thank You.

 

[qkreflex]

ryker29,that is some fuuny shit. you said it all in less than 100 words. but your words made sense

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"I dont know of many cemetaries in the US with French bodies lined up due to their effortrs to help us in any war. "

Too bad you didn't learn any history when you were in school or maybe YOU would know something about the way things are. Let's see, how many years did Ben Franklin lobby in Paris during the revolutionary war in order to get the French involved? Ever hear of the Battle of Yorktown, VA where the French fleet cut off the supplies and ultimately the retreat of British General Cornwallis? That was THE critical moment of the war. It is a WELL known and accepted historical fact that had the French not intervened during the American Revolutionary War, that we would not have succeeded in gaining independence from the British. Not that the French did it out of the "goodness of their hearts" though either. It was an old blood feud between them and the British and they just took advantage of a bad situation for the British to screw them over and help screw them out of some of their colonies just the way the British had done to them in Canada and the Carribbean. Just like we didn't enter the first or second World War to save the French either. We entered the First World War because of markets and economics. That is accepted historical fact. Regarding the Second World War, we were attacked by the Japanese AND the Germans issued a formal declaration of war against the United States in support of their axis power alley, Japan. The fact that we bailed the French out was a consequence but not the reason we entered the war. So get off your moral bully pulpit and grow up. Everyone knows that nations act in self interest. Thee is nothing morally right or wrong about this--it is simply a fact. And why shouldn't they look out for their own interests anyway?

But all you right wingers keep trying to put the stupid morality spin on everything like we are the good guys and "they" are the bad guys. Frankly all nations are hypocrites and self serving just like the vast majority, if not all people that make them up. I am not downing the U.S., I am simply saying putting halos on shit that we do is dillusional and shows you are the one that is clueless as to how things work. We will simply do what the powers that be believe to be in our best interest. You are a total fool if you thing for a moment that we could care less about the Iraqi people and that the reason that we would go back in their is to help them establish a democracy. If that is a consequence that spins out of it--Great! But it is NOT the reason behind it. Morality has never had ANYTHING to do with anything--it is just a way to "get people on board because for the most part they are too stupid to understand what the real reasons are anyway.

Oh, and by the way, one of the primary reasons that a lot of journalists give for not reporting a lot of stuff is simply "how do you explain something inherently complicated to a population that supposedly for the most part graduated from high school but in actuality has the equivalent of a seventh grade education?" Well I have to admit, the stuff I see here certainly underlines THAT point quite well.

 

[mikes20]

one quick question, how come every one who supports the government or it's actions is stupid or ignorant having no idea what's truly going on in the world, and everyone who opposes are the chosen enlightened ones that are so deep and smart? do you think it's impossible to know the situation and just disagree with you and support our country

 

[Riker29]

one quick question, how come every one who supports the government or it's actions is stupid or ignorant having no idea what's truly going on in the world, and everyone who opposes are the chosen enlightened ones that are so deep and smart? do you think it's impossible to know the situation and just disagree with you and support our country

Good point, but that one guy won't understand, his is stuck at Berkely eating Tofu, listening to Phish, and kissing women who dont use deodorant.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"Good point, but that one guy won't understand, his is stuck at Berkely eating Tofu, listening to Phish, and kissing women who dont use deodorant."

None of your assumptions are even close to the truth in your statement! There is a very distinct difference between supporting the United States and supporting the mindless obsession of a moron of a president against some third rate dictator of a fourth rate country. If this were really about weapons of mass destruction, the no brainer target would be North Korea, hands down. They admittedly are proceeding full speed ahead with their missle and nuclear weapons programs. If they manage to perfect their three stage missle which is in testing stages now, they'll be capable of hitting ANYWHERE in the United States in case you haven't heard. I find it interesting that George W's own father disagrees with "dubya" on this one in case you didn't notice as does virtually the entire rest of the world. Ever consider that maybe the ENTIRE rest of the world and about half of the United States MIGHT actually have a valid point and that you could be the one living in a dillusion? Probably not. That might involve using your brain to try to figure out some things which clearly isn't going to happen in this lifetime. Frankly, I have a hell of a lot of respect for George H. W. Bush and his rather distinguished and long service to this country in many capacities. I have absolutely NO respect for his loser of a son.

Fortunately, it is still a free country, at least for a while longer, and we are all entitled to our opinions, right, wrong or otherwise, no matter how ignorant of the facts. So go back to Orange County and sit in a corner drooling while listening mindlessly to Rush Limbaugh. His sponsers will appreciate your support.

 

[Riker29]

Where are the Mods?

Move this stupid thread to the chat board or delete it please.

NorCalLiberalBoy is trying to impress his boyfriend and embarssing himself.

 

[Frackal]

George HW disagrees with Bush?

 

[mikes20]

wow berkley boys are testy , i thought you were all the hippie mellow type but i guess i understand too i would be edgy too if i was on his little tofu vegan diet fucking hairy girls, but to each his own, i'd much rather stay here with my orange county sunny skies, warm weather and beaches, blonde big fakie girls than the "all natural" of berkley and who's majority of the population is an embarassment to our state and country, have fun saving whales, trees, owls, whatever you people do

 

[Frackal]

What makes you think he is from berkley?

 

[mikes20]

didn't he say he was from there? well no, someone else did, oh well, i was just runnin with the whole theme

 

[Otis2]

Hey, looks like we have us a human shield! Good Luck Norcal.

 

[ceo]

If this were really about weapons of mass destruction, the no brainer target would be North Korea, hands down.

TOTALLY AGREE! They have already threatened the West Coast!


[QOUTE]Fortunately, it is still a free country...[/QOUTE]


BARELY!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Saddam needs to be ousted and tried (or killed) for his crimes. But, I fear either one of his sons who would eventually take over would be worse.

Basically we need to kill them (his sons) too. But, no matter what government the U.S. sets up there, it will eventually turn against us and bite us in the ass (just like Saddam's regime, and the Taliban). The U.S. creates it's own nightmares...although I'm sure the powers that be (the REAL ones) know full well what they're doing, and what will most likely happen.

 

[Frackal]

Initiating a war against north korea would be a horrid mistake....not the same as Iraq

 

[jubei]

Yeah so anyways....Kynoselen is made in France. Good stuff and cheap too. Only $100.00 CAD per 100ml bottle depending on where you buy it. You are supposed to take 1cc per 20lbs bodyweight per week. I have a friend on it right now and he looks great. He seems to be pumped 24/7 and his colour has improved alot too. I have 2 bottles myself, and am going to get a couple more.

 

[ceo]

Initiating a war against north korea would be a horrid mistake....not the same as Iraq

I'm not for initiating war against anyone...NK or Iraq (or any other country). I think war on Iraq would also be a mistake. But I'm not the one with financial interests there.

 

[Frackal]

I only meant in terms of defense capablities not the same...I am not in favor of Iraq war either

 

[mikes20]

just curious, i'm not as educated as you, but what is Kynoselen and what does it do, thanks

 

[realblaz]

This is off-topic.

Move it.

And by the way, fuck the French. Those bastards, We have tens of thousands of dead US soldiers buried in cemetaries over there, all who died to save their sorry asses in no less than 2 major wars in the past 100 years. They would all be speaking German if it was not for us. Fuck them.

Someone needs to send them soap for their smelly selves, razors for their chick's armpits, and muzzles for their loud mouths.

This is off-topic.

Move it.

What did you do between 1914 and 1917 ? NOTHING.
What did you do between 1939 and 1942 ? NOTHING.
What did you do in chile/salvador/nicaragua to support democracy ?
What didn't you do in China to help Thibet people ?
Why are you doing nothing in Russia to help thetchen people ?
Why don't you attack North Korea ? (maybe are you afraid...)
Why don't you attack the REAL TERRORIST ISLAMIC COUNTRIES like Saoudi Arabia (maybe you need their oil ?), Sudan, Indonesia ?
Why do you want to attack the only arab country where islamists are persecuted : IRAK.
Irak has NEVER helped islamic movements, because the "modern" Irak state was build AGAINST them. So Saddam has nothing to see with all the Bin Laden's shit.

Thousand of children, women and men are dying in Irak for 10 years. Not because of Saddam, but because of the embargo on this country.
Nobody's care in the world about Irakian people, nobody's care about Kurdistan. Don't give bad reasons to justify your hypocrisy.
Kuweit was historically a part of Irak. i'm not saying that it justifies the Irakian attack in the 90's, but Irak has NEVER been , and is NOT a menace for the United States. When they attacked Iran a few years before, I don't remember that amarica was against this...
Just say you have the power, and you're doing everything you want, with the "help" of financial lobbies and stupid (ugly) politicians.

I'm not talking about american people, but try to think by yourself , and don't follow official propaganda. You newsletters and infos channels are now more nasty than the sovietic news in the 50's.

A last word : I have never voted , and will never vote for this lyer and thief that is Mr Chirac. And I still don't understand why the "greatest" democracy in the world (america) gave the power to one of the most stupid men of your history : G . W. Bush...

 

[Riker29]

If it was not for the US, you would be speaking German right now.

Andthe French seem to forget that.

France is a "has been" country. Its power has been all but lost, and it is simply objecting in a poor attempt to attempt to be relevant.

Oh - and lets not forget, France has been supporting Iraq for years, including selling them parts to keep their aircraft operational.

Dont worry though, Dubya will fix it all.

And, again, this is off-topic anyway. You are supposed to talk about this here. Just like Iraq is not supposed to have WMD, and FRance is not suippose to be selling them military parts.

I say,

Move the thread,

Bomb Iraq up to the stone age,

Then go after the French in the UN for violating sanctions against Iraq.

 

[Otis2]

Hey Frenchman, you can let US decide who the threat is to OUR country. We could cower as your government does or we can step in now and do what will eventually need to be done. History tells us that the longer you let an insane dictator gain power than the tougher it will be to solve the problem as in North Korea. The incompetence of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton allowed that to happen and now they have nuclear capability. The same will happen in Iraq if something is not done NOW. Many fewer lives will be lost now before Iraq aquires nuclear weapons than if we wait until that happens. Besides, France could give a shit less about the people of Iraq. Their only concern is that they will lose their hold on the oil fields in Iraq when this is resolved.

 

[Otis2]

Why is it that all the anti-war protest people NEVER seem to place any blame on Iraq? After all it is Iraq that has disobeyed 17 UN resolutions. Iraq is the one that is violating international law. These were NOT United States resolutions but UN resolutions. Last September the UN Security Council voted UNANIMOUSLY to the use of force to disarm Iraq if the terms of the resolution were not met. The terms were Immediate (not a missle or 2 every few weeks) disarmment, and to catalog ALL illegal weapons. (agreed to by the UN). These conditions were not met and would never be met by Saddam. Let's face it he has worked hard to accumulate these BANNED weapons and does not want to give them up. The United States is just about the only power to be that has the capability and will to do these ugly tasks. If we did not feel that these insane terrorists would use these weapons AGAIN to attack US then maybe we could let France and Germany deal with this. However we do not put the security of our country in the hands of other countries with their own agendas ahead of ours. What country is it that everyone on this planet runs to to escape any type of atrocity? Who do they run to when help or money is needed for just about any trouble they run into? Which countries borders are crossed illegally thousands of times per year by people looking for a better life? What other country sets up all these illegals with food , money and a place to live even though they contribute nothing to it? EASY answer, the terrible old US of A. The terrorists of the world are going to learn the hard way not to fuck with us!

 

[Sigmund Roid]

We SHELL not EXXONerate Saddam Hussein for his actions. We will MOBILize to meet this threat to vital interests in the Persian GULF until an AMOCOble solution is reached. Our best strategy is to BPrepared. Failing that we ARCOming to kick your ass.

 

[Frackal]

Otis you make some good points, but what was the exact wording of 1441 with regards to:

Timeframe

and

Consequences if not met

 

[ceo]

If we did not feel that these insane terrorists would use these weapons AGAIN to attack US then maybe we could let France and Germany deal with this.

When did Iraq attack US soil with "these weapons"?

 

[ceo]

If we did not feel that these insane terrorists would use these weapons AGAIN to attack US then maybe we could let France and Germany deal with this.

When did Iraq attack US soil with "these weapons"?

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Ok, I couldn't bite my tongue any longer.........LOL.......a couple of comments on a couple of comments on the "Berkeley theory" as put forth by Riker20, Otis2 et al. and also something that Spidey and I totally agree on!!!

Spidey said: “Incidently, I don't see what the big deal is about off-topic posts. If you don't want to "waste your time" reading off-topic stuff, just don't open and read obviously off-topic threads. Problem solved.”

I have to agree entirely with that statement. If Riker29 or anyone else doesn’t like the thread, just don’t open and read it. The fact that those that oppose keep coming back for more and continue to complain says something about them. I am just not sure what exactly what that is though…….LOL

Mikes20 said: “wow berkley boys are testy , i thought you were all the hippie mellow type but i guess i understand too i would be edgy too if i was on his little tofu vegan diet fucking hairy girls, but to each his own, i'd much rather stay here with my orange county sunny skies, warm weather and beaches, blonde big fakie girls than the "all natural" of berkley and who's majority of the population is an embarassment to our state and country, have fun saving whales, trees, owls, whatever you people do”

Frackal said: “What makes you think he is from berkley?”

Otis2 said: “didn't he say he was from there? well no, someone else did, oh well, i was just runnin with the whole theme”

Be it known!!!
It was Riker29 and Otis2 that put forth the sinister but ammusing “Berkeley theory.” The fact that you just parroted what they said and accepted it as fact is what conservatives and others do with things like “liberal media”—it has been said SO many times that it just MUST be true but no one ever really questions why it is a “fact”—you beautifully proved my point. I threw out the concept of a “conservative media” to jerk some chains, stir some shit up and see if anyone might actually use their brain, but guess what? Parroting is the order of the day. Pretty predictable really though. At least Frackal realized the obvious and probably even read my earlier reponse to Riker29’s "Berkeley theory" where I said “None of your assumptions are even close to the truth in your statement!” I thought that was fairly clear and did not need explaining but apparently not. And I guess that of anyone on this board, I would know if I live in Berkeley or not or fit the funny sterotype theory being put forth as it unfurled. So here it is, I do not live in Berkeley. I have never lived in Berkeley. From this, a thinking person would realize that I also did not go to school at Cal/Berkeley either and THAT person would be correct. Actually I went to a pretty conservative Ivy League school back east for my undergraduate work and a rather conservative Southern University for graduate work. However, I do admit that I was recently IN Berkeley to watch the pro bodybuilding show down there “Battle for the Bay” where Jay Cutler won the show. The Berkeley theory was so off the mark, that it is laughable (I have to admit that I was getting quite a bit of amusement out of it) as I don’t even live in the San Francisco Bay Area, or any county that even abutts any Bay Area County, or Silicon Valley for that matter. In other words, I don’t live anywhere even close to there. It is a pretty long drive for me.

Continuing on, I do not eat TOFU. I do not even like TOFU. In fact it can easily be stated that I strongly DISLIKE TOFU—I mean, honestly, why would I want to ingest something that has a tendency to increase female hormones anyway? I am into bodybuilding not building fat. I am not a vegan, have never been a vegan and thoroughly enjoy my bloody slabs of RED meat and other carcass derived "food products."

Moving forward, Inbathed bodies and unshaved pits and hairy, unshaved legs, do not work for me. But it is a free country somewhat and to each their own. Whatever turns your crank and frankly I don’t want to know. That is like WAY too much information.

As for hippie mellow types……..that’s pretty funny. Completely missed the mark on all counts there as well. Let’s see, I am a two time military veteran with two honorable discharges. Have shaved hair on my head and am always clean shaven. I do not fall into either a dove or a hawk category and [rather obviously] am not a conscientious objector to war, but I do consider the individual situation, pros and cons, and come to my own conclusions as to whether what we are doing is the best way to approach a situation. But to each their own again.

Well now, I have started Monday with a good laugh.....

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

And considering sterotypes, my inlaws live in Tennesee, are hardcrust religious right wing republicans, AND THEY eat tofu AND are VEGANS AND are anti-war.......does that count?

 

[DocJ]

"Actually, all the polls I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) show that the majority of Americans (55%) are for going into Iraq with or without UN sanction. "

Hmmm..........all conservative corporate media sources...........

HOW YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE A HOPELESS LIBERAL: when you use the word conservative in describing CNN & MSNBC.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

"HOW YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE A HOPELESS LIBERAL: when you use the word conservative in describing CNN & MSNBC"

How you know you are a hopeless conservative/fascist: when you can't even see the obvious and lack the critical thinking/analysis skills to understand anything other than what you are told/programmed to believe by propaganda.