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The Bible vs. Sex

H

healother

New member
I am caught between 2 poles, and there is quite a bit of tension going on.
I'm not asking for advice or an answer, because I know thats not something that internet forum strangers can give for this. But I'm making a point that this tension exists in society, and am wondering if it has been true for anyone else, and how they've dealt with it.

The Bible makes it clear that premarital sex (or fornication) is not something that should be condoned.

Granted the book was written 2000 years ago, and many things in the Bible can be dismissed as cultural, but premarital sex is emphasized as wrong quite a few times in the Bible, and no cultural component is expressed. Furthermore, many Christians believe the Bible is completely inspired by God, and was designed to be relevant today as well as yesterday.

Sex is something that with birth control and proper std prevention can be a very enjoyable activity between 2 consenting individuals. It is the ultimate physical expression of affection in a relationship, an expression of intimacy, and nearly everyone considers it to be a factor in creating a healthy relationship between lovers (some need to test drive that part before marriage and some wait until they are married to their lover until they have it.)
Sex feels completely natural. Even when not in a relationship it still feels darn good.

But the Bible places such a huge restriction on sex. If one isnt going to have sex until they are married that might sound fine and all, but if they never get married, (say because they dont find the right person or whatever) then they wont ever get to experience sex.
And to marry just to have sex would seem very foolish, so that isnt a possiblity either.

It's not that the Bible is opposed to sex all the time, its just that it feels like it distorts it by making it all sacred and everything (which feels less natural to save it that long). It can only be had in a special situation (man and wife) and in all other situations its considered wrong.

Anyways, I'm not married, so it sucks to have to choose between 2 great things, the Bible and sex, and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with this tension before and knows what I'm talking about.
 
When it comes to important things in your life, the Bible would be the last thing I got my advice from.
 
It's the flame that never dies...

Obviously, your psychology department doesn't do a good job teaching it's students how to think very well.



:cow:
 
I have delt with it, just like everyone else. I'm a sinner. In fact I think I'm better at it than I am at being a Christian. God forgives, most others can't. For that matter sin is sin no matter what it is, so commiting adultery isn't any worse than not telling the truth, murder, ect. The only sin thats singled out as bieng the worst is using God's name in vain.
 
BNG said:
I have delt with it, just like everyone else. I'm a sinner. In fact I think I'm better at it than I am at being a Christian. God forgives, most others can't. For that matter sin is sin no matter what it is, so commiting adultery isn't any worse than not telling the truth, murder, ect. The only sin thats singled out as bieng the worst is using God's name in vain.
Click to expand...

LOL, stupid god damn christian. You're the type that gives christians a bad name.



:cow:
 
BNG said:
I have delt with it, just like everyone else. I'm a sinner. In fact I think I'm better at it than I am at being a Christian. God forgives, most others can't. For that matter sin is sin no matter what it is, so commiting adultery isn't any worse than not telling the truth, murder, ect. The only sin thats singled out as bieng the worst is using God's name in vain.
Click to expand...

hmmm. . .i thought that all 10 of the commandments pretty much carried the same weight. . .where's redguru??
 
healother said:
Sex feels completely natural. Even when not in a relationship it still feels darn good.
Click to expand...

Waaaaaiiiitttt a minute... I thought you were a virgin. You gotta keep your schtick straight if you want to pull this alter off right.



:cow:
 
When the bible was written people married at 12 years old. That isn't exactly holding out for too long. In present society, it is unrealistic and unhealthy for people to do without ever being intimate well into their late twenties and beyond.

Just be kind to your lovers and don't take advantage or anyone.
 
Tension exists for cowards who do not have the testicular fortitude to think, act, and deal.

You are weak, and will always be weak. Someone needs to play the "prey" role.
 
i like to think of God as a big baseball fan. and i think what he wants most is effort. as long as you're playing hard, all is good. try and play by the rules. if ya don't, you get benched. or suspended. or traded to a team in the 9th Circle of Hell....
 
HumanTarget said:
i like to think of God as a big baseball fan. and i think what he wants most is effort. as long as you're playing hard, all is good. try and play by the rules. if ya don't, you get benched. or suspended. or traded to a team in the 9th Circle of Hell....
Click to expand...
lol...you're such a goofball
 
The Bible also says to stone to death unruly children, you can sell your daughters into slavery, and put to death those who work on Sunday......Not the best modern guide to morality...just sayin'.
 
healother said:
I am caught between 2 poles, and there is quite a bit of tension going on.
I'm not asking for advice or an answer, because I know thats not something that internet forum strangers can give for this. But I'm making a point that this tension exists in society, and am wondering if it has been true for anyone else, and how they've dealt with it.

The Bible makes it clear that premarital sex (or fornication) is not something that should be condoned.

Granted the book was written 2000 years ago, and many things in the Bible can be dismissed as cultural, but premarital sex is emphasized as wrong quite a few times in the Bible, and no cultural component is expressed. Furthermore, many Christians believe the Bible is completely inspired by God, and was designed to be relevant today as well as yesterday.

Sex is something that with birth control and proper std prevention can be a very enjoyable activity between 2 consenting individuals. It is the ultimate physical expression of affection in a relationship, an expression of intimacy, and nearly everyone considers it to be a factor in creating a healthy relationship between lovers (some need to test drive that part before marriage and some wait until they are married to their lover until they have it.)
Sex feels completely natural. Even when not in a relationship it still feels darn good.

But the Bible places such a huge restriction on sex. If one isnt going to have sex until they are married that might sound fine and all, but if they never get married, (say because they dont find the right person or whatever) then they wont ever get to experience sex.
And to marry just to have sex would seem very foolish, so that isnt a possiblity either.

It's not that the Bible is opposed to sex all the time, its just that it feels like it distorts it by making it all sacred and everything (which feels less natural to save it that long). It can only be had in a special situation (man and wife) and in all other situations its considered wrong.

Anyways, I'm not married, so it sucks to have to choose between 2 great things, the Bible and sex, and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with this tension before and knows what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Have you considered fucking farm animals?
 
healother said:
I am caught between 2 poles, and there is quite a bit of tension going on.
I'm not asking for advice or an answer, because I know thats not something that internet forum strangers can give for this. But I'm making a point that this tension exists in society, and am wondering if it has been true for anyone else, and how they've dealt with it.

The Bible makes it clear that premarital sex (or fornication) is not something that should be condoned.

Granted the book was written 2000 years ago, and many things in the Bible can be dismissed as cultural, but premarital sex is emphasized as wrong quite a few times in the Bible, and no cultural component is expressed. Furthermore, many Christians believe the Bible is completely inspired by God, and was designed to be relevant today as well as yesterday.

Sex is something that with birth control and proper std prevention can be a very enjoyable activity between 2 consenting individuals. It is the ultimate physical expression of affection in a relationship, an expression of intimacy, and nearly everyone considers it to be a factor in creating a healthy relationship between lovers (some need to test drive that part before marriage and some wait until they are married to their lover until they have it.)
Sex feels completely natural. Even when not in a relationship it still feels darn good.

But the Bible places such a huge restriction on sex. If one isnt going to have sex until they are married that might sound fine and all, but if they never get married, (say because they dont find the right person or whatever) then they wont ever get to experience sex.
And to marry just to have sex would seem very foolish, so that isnt a possiblity either.

It's not that the Bible is opposed to sex all the time, its just that it feels like it distorts it by making it all sacred and everything (which feels less natural to save it that long). It can only be had in a special situation (man and wife) and in all other situations its considered wrong.

Anyways, I'm not married, so it sucks to have to choose between 2 great things, the Bible and sex, and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with this tension before and knows what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I would strongly encourage you to look for feedback in other forums or avenues, the majority of the people here have a negative view of the bible and/or Christians.

Remove the bible from the equasion for a moment and look at it this way. With so many STD's, some fatal, and with the problems of unwanted pregnancy, it seems like a smart move to wait doesn't it? No, that's not the "cool" thing to do. It's lame to hold out and do it when it's right.

I beleive the bible and I had premarital sex. I regret it to this day. Not because it didn't feel good, it felt great. It was amazing and I'm happy to say my GF at the time was quite happy too. I apparently knew what the heck I was doing. lol But looking back, I wish I could say that the only woman I've been with is my wife. Society has cheapened sex anymore and its' not special, it's just to "get off". Sex in marriage can be all you want it to be. Carnal, sensuous, romantic, lust filled, etc, etc.

We are so bombarded with the pressure to do it, we just do it to get it over with, not to relish it. You can of course still go to heaven if you have premarital sex, but the bond you could have with your future wife, and her with you, thats pretty special isn't it? I for one think it is, but I would bet I'm in the minority.
 
JavaGuru said:
The Bible also says to stone to death unruly children, you can sell your daughters into slavery, and put to death those who work on Sunday......Not the best modern guide to morality...just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Thats the OLD testament you nitwit.
 
BNG said:
I have delt with it, just like everyone else. I'm a sinner. In fact I think I'm better at it than I am at being a Christian. God forgives, most others can't. For that matter sin is sin no matter what it is, so commiting adultery isn't any worse than not telling the truth, murder, ect. The only sin thats singled out as bieng the worst is using God's name in vain.
Click to expand...

saying goddamn is not using god's name in vein because his name is not god.
 
JavaGuru said:
The ten commandments are old testament you nitwit...you can't pick and choose your God inspired morality. Unless you're claiming that your infallible sky deity fucked up with parts of the old testament. Just sayin'....
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm sorry AAP, THIS is the dumbest thing I've read on EF. Youa re splitting hairs and you know it.

just sayin.
 
steve, this is maybe a good way to look at it

above all, to be ok with God, you have to be a good guy. the bible is full of stories where why you did something is more important than what you did - abel and cain, for instance, where God acepted one sacrifice but not the other. by the same token, sometimes its okay to do the wrong thing, for the right reason, if thats the best you can honestly do.

now, the world has changed since Jesus was walking around. the bible has been rewritten about 100 times by a bunch of people trying to control society, and so you cant stick to the bible by the letter. its not a set of laws, its more like guidelines.

so if you like sex, and you just cant find your way through the jumble of conflicting thoughts/ideas, say to yourself "im not perfect, but i have to make a choice about this sex thing, becuse not having it is making me a really unviable shitty member of society, and so im willing to make a choice, fuckup and pray that overall, im such a good guy that God will forgive me this one little fuckup"

look at the big picture. would God rather you be so socially inompetent that youre unviable socially, have a shit relationship with your wife (making her unhappy) make your parents worry like hell about you all the time (theyre probably thinking omg, how is steve going to hold down a relationship with a girl etc) and be a shitty dad to your kids (because your brain is so poorly formed that you cant provide them with the guidance they need to make their way through the jungle that is our world), OR would God forgive you for doing something technically wrong, but overall, the right thing to do for yourself, and everyone connected to you?

part of being a man is being willing to fuck up, and bear the consequences.

like i say to guys who are thinking about getting into a fight with me "mate, its time to step up...or step off :evil: "
 
samoth said:
It's the flame that never dies...

Obviously, your psychology department doesn't do a good job teaching it's students how to think very well.



:cow:
Click to expand...

lol, ouch!

what was wrong with my post? (please no one else needs to answer, just samoth)

samoth said:
Waaaaaiiiitttt a minute... I thought you were a virgin. You gotta keep your schtick straight if you want to pull this alter off right.



:cow:
Click to expand...

i had manual sex okay, yes that is the technical word for it, and that is a type of sex. but yeah, technically im still a virgin
 
rykertest said:
Thats the OLD testament you nitwit.
Click to expand...

we pick and choose what we want to believe from the book.

No god is going to punish you for having premarital sex. That is the most absurd thing that I've ever heard.
 
Evolution is slowly replacing the "need to believe" gene characteristic; it needs to pick up the pace.
 
heatherrae said:
When the bible was written people married at 12 years old. That isn't exactly holding out for too long. In present society, it is unrealistic and unhealthy for people to do without ever being intimate well into their late twenties and beyond.

Just be kind to your lovers and don't take advantage or anyone.
Click to expand...

its true times have changed a lot. i just wish in the bible they specified the reasons why they had some of these rules. that way we'd know if they were intended for today or not.

KillahBee said:
Tension exists for cowards who do not have the testicular fortitude to think, act, and deal.

You are weak, and will always be weak. Someone needs to play the "prey" role.
Click to expand...

Um, tension exists because I love God and want to remain loyal to Him the best that I can. I don't know all the reasons behind the Bible verses about premarital sex. I dont understand any of it. So that causes tension, ok?

JavaGuru said:
The Bible also says to stone to death unruly children, you can sell your daughters into slavery, and put to death those who work on Sunday......Not the best modern guide to morality...just sayin'.
Click to expand...

those things you listed are not emphasized in the New Testament. The Bible did change its tone over time. Jesus was a big part of that.
Some things mentioned in the Bible seem very applicable and good lessons for life. And thats the part that I dont understand, how could the bible not condone the joy of premarital sex?
 
healother said:
its true times have changed a lot. i just wish in the bible they specified the reasons why they had some of these rules. that way we'd know if they were intended for today or not.



Um, tension exists because I love God and want to remain loyal to Him the best that I can. I don't know all the reasons behind the Bible verses about premarital sex. I dont understand any of it. So that causes tension, ok?
Click to expand...


Here's a good read:

http://www.luciferianliberationfront.org/sexbible.html
 
rykertest said:
I would strongly encourage you to look for feedback in other forums or avenues, the majority of the people here have a negative view of the bible and/or Christians.

Remove the bible from the equasion for a moment and look at it this way. With so many STD's, some fatal, and with the problems of unwanted pregnancy, it seems like a smart move to wait doesn't it? No, that's not the "cool" thing to do. It's lame to hold out and do it when it's right.

I beleive the bible and I had premarital sex. I regret it to this day. Not because it didn't feel good, it felt great. It was amazing and I'm happy to say my GF at the time was quite happy too. I apparently knew what the heck I was doing. lol But looking back, I wish I could say that the only woman I've been with is my wife. Society has cheapened sex anymore and its' not special, it's just to "get off". Sex in marriage can be all you want it to be. Carnal, sensuous, romantic, lust filled, etc, etc.

We are so bombarded with the pressure to do it, we just do it to get it over with, not to relish it. You can of course still go to heaven if you have premarital sex, but the bond you could have with your future wife, and her with you, thats pretty special isn't it? I for one think it is, but I would bet I'm in the minority.
Click to expand...

Don't worry i posted this on 3 other forums as well. (one of them was a Christian forum) I like the whole rounded viewpoint.

Waiting makes sense, for me more so due to the emotional attachment that can come with sex. But waiting until marriage? it just seems a bit extreme, why not just wait until you're with someone you love?

Here's the thing. what if you didnt get married? what if you died without having sex? How would that be a good deal? Are you willing to risk that, just so you can say the only women you had sex with was your wife?

So is sex really less special with your wife now because you had it with another person? I thought what made sex special was that it was with a certain person that you really like, not because it was the only person you'd been with.
 
UA_Iron said:
we pick and choose what we want to believe from the book.

No god is going to punish you for having premarital sex. That is the most absurd thing that I've ever heard.
Click to expand...

I'm not worried about God punihsing me, I'm more worried that I might actually regret it later, and that maybe the Bible is right. Or I'm more worried that I might disappoint God and then feel guilty about it later.

UA_Iron said:
Here's a good read:

http://www.luciferianliberationfront.org/sexbible.html
Click to expand...

ill check it out later, im about to head out.
 
healother said:
lol, ouch!

what was wrong with my post? (please no one else needs to answer, just samoth)
Click to expand...

Posts. Plural. You answered the question for me when you said you posted this in three other forums. Please, turn off your computer, leave your house, and get the hell out into the real world and interact with real people. You will not find the answers to life in internet message forums. Unless your psych emphasis was in internet message board psychology, I suggest the real world as the optimum place to interact. Or, of course, there's always the killself option.

i had manual sex okay, yes that is the technical word for it, and that is a type of sex. but yeah, technically im still a virgin
Click to expand...

HUH?! I never thought of the differences between manual and automatic sex. Actually, I don't know what manual or automatic sex is. Does going from one to the other involve changing your transmission?



:cow:
 
rykertest said:
Wow, I'm sorry AAP, THIS is the dumbest thing I've read on EF. Youa re splitting hairs and you know it.

just sayin.
Click to expand...
You're the one that believes in something with zero proof....just sayin'
 
Heal, the more you read of the Bible (and I strongly advise you to actually read the silly ass book, cover to cover, as opposed to permitting someone else to regurgitate THEIR interpretation of what is held between it's covers) the more you will find hypocricy ...

The restrictions against premarital sex, as far as my recollections extend, are limited to the old Testament (personally I've always thought Paul was either a closet homo or mysogynist, haven't figured out which). Well, if you're not a Jew, the Old Testament doesn't apply to you, does it? Why do xtians get themselves twisted up with Old Testament laws and restrictions when the Messiah said "I am the way, the truth and the life?" Did he tell y'all to keep kosher? NO, he said something to the effect that sin is not what goes INTO a man's mouth, but what comes out. So if you eat ham ...

Okay, you really want to be anal (in the psychological sense) ... the 10 commandments, are God's laws, RIGHT? These are the biggies, right? ADULTERY is mentioned. Adultery is having sex OUTSIDE of your marriage, meaning you or the person you're banging, is married. Specifically, extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations. It does NOT mean UNmarried, consentual sex.

The problem with unmarried sex existed within Hebrew society, lands and property were automatically conferred to the first born son (before DNA testing). That was a MAJOR issue then and THAT was where the value of female virginity lie (and why adultery is such an issue). It didn't have shit to do with "sin." It had to do with inheritance, seriously.

Chastity and abstinence are, historically speaking, recent issues in xtian religion.

Hell, priests used to be allowed to marry until less than 600 years ago.

Okay, this is an interesting web page about Jesus and his opinions on sex, and IMHO, the crap that came around 1400 years after his death doesn't count:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sex_jesu.htm

Heal, the only lesson was to be a good, compassionate person ... torturing yourself about having sex or not is not good, because you're hurting yourself, which is against Christianity (you're hurting one of God's creatures, aren't you? Torturing yourself mentally ...). Either be abstinant and proud of it or engage in relations and realize that rubbing bathing suit parts with another person isn't evil.

You want to see evil, you read about the holocaust, you read about John Wayne Gayce and Jeffrey Dahmler, that's EVIL, man, THAT shit is evil. Having consentual intercourse with another person ain't evil. Silly, messy, awkward, sure, but not evil.

Evil destroys joy, life and hope.

... course, I'm a pagan ... matter of fact I'm going to an initiation ceremony tomorrow , so what do I know? :D
 
What is the point of waiting until you are 29 yrs old to finally have sex, get married, have sex for two years, and then get divorced. You are now back at square one.

Abstaining from sex does not make you any more virtous than a cronic masterbator.

If you aren't having sex, then you are masterbating, which is just as sinful. It is impossible to get aroused and masterbate without thinking illicit, sexual thoughts.

There are preists and monks all over the world masterbating on a regular basis who are just as sinful in God's eyes as porn stars because they are fornicating and defiling themselves with carnal thoughts and engaging in sexual sin.
 
Last edited:
The only way to avoid sexual sin is to neuter yourself and never touch your dick, outside of marriage. That is why the bible does not mention masterbation, because it is a necessary evil. Imagine our society without masterbation. Rape would be common place. You couldn't walk from your house to your car without getting jumped by someone.
 
heal.......is there someone out there you really care about, respect etc....????

and is there an issue about having sex with said person???
 
rykertest said:
Wow, I'm sorry AAP, THIS is the dumbest thing I've read on EF. Youa re splitting hairs and you know it.

just sayin.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure he is.......christians, and I'm surrounded by them on a daily basis, pick and choose shit all the time. I"ve never been around people whose logic matrix's are more malleable. They can make the most absurd connections with the straightest of faces...........they can do this because the argument ALWAYS comes down to faith..........there is no proof of their god......just faith. And I would never take anyone's faith from them........but when they use "faith" to dictate MY life...??? I've got issues......
 
samoth said:
LOL, stupid god damn christian. You're the type that gives christians a bad name.



:cow:
Click to expand...

How is this? Because I admit to being a sinner? Because I recognize that God is who forgives? Or is it because I am messed up, and though I believe in God I am not following mans ideals of what has become a label created by people like you? I have had no problem taking lives, fucking women, and a whole list of things that are outside of the box people have labeled "Christianity". The Bible has many stories of death and destruction sactioned and endorsed by God. I like the fact that God recognizes the benefit of widespread death. God forgives adulterers, and I like that as well. I think King David, Solomon, Goliath, and there are a list of others. God is a masculine God, one capable of much violence and mayhem, one who has made me who I am and I'm good with that.

People who actually are so arrogant to believe they have it all figured out are the ones most surprised by things thay can't fit into a box, and who panic like little screaming girls when it's time to be a warrior.
 
BNG said:
God is a masculine God,
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm glad your god represents only half of the human species.

Good thing you can rape and kill, yet be forgiven. It gives you some hope in your little bubble world. I won't even touch the ignorance of your philosophical implications that good and evil do not exist, only god and not-god.



:cow:
 
healother said:
I am caught between 2 poles, and there is quite a bit of tension going on.
I'm not asking for advice or an answer, because I know thats not something that internet forum strangers can give for this. But I'm making a point that this tension exists in society, and am wondering if it has been true for anyone else, and how they've dealt with it.

The Bible makes it clear that premarital sex (or fornication) is not something that should be condoned.

Granted the book was written 2000 years ago, and many things in the Bible can be dismissed as cultural, but premarital sex is emphasized as wrong quite a few times in the Bible, and no cultural component is expressed. Furthermore, many Christians believe the Bible is completely inspired by God, and was designed to be relevant today as well as yesterday.

Sex is something that with birth control and proper std prevention can be a very enjoyable activity between 2 consenting individuals. It is the ultimate physical expression of affection in a relationship, an expression of intimacy, and nearly everyone considers it to be a factor in creating a healthy relationship between lovers (some need to test drive that part before marriage and some wait until they are married to their lover until they have it.)
Sex feels completely natural. Even when not in a relationship it still feels darn good.

But the Bible places such a huge restriction on sex. If one isnt going to have sex until they are married that might sound fine and all, but if they never get married, (say because they dont find the right person or whatever) then they wont ever get to experience sex.
And to marry just to have sex would seem very foolish, so that isnt a possiblity either.

It's not that the Bible is opposed to sex all the time, its just that it feels like it distorts it by making it all sacred and everything (which feels less natural to save it that long). It can only be had in a special situation (man and wife) and in all other situations its considered wrong.

Anyways, I'm not married, so it sucks to have to choose between 2 great things, the Bible and sex, and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with this tension before and knows what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
do both, make her suck your dick and pretend its communion then baptize her in your jizz/piss splashbath
 
samoth said:
Posts. Plural. You answered the question for me when you said you posted this in three other forums. Please, turn off your computer, leave your house, and get the hell out into the real world and interact with real people. You will not find the answers to life in internet message forums. Unless your psych emphasis was in internet message board psychology, I suggest the real world as the optimum place to interact. Or, of course, there's always the killself option.



HUH?! I never thought of the differences between manual and automatic sex. Actually, I don't know what manual or automatic sex is. Does going from one to the other involve changing your transmission?



:cow:
Click to expand...

Tonight I did get out. I went to a party and interacted with lots of real people and talked to some girls. i didnt have to worry about the sex part though, since the party and the girls there sucked, but hey whatever.


manual sex means using something other than the mouth or genitals to stimulate the other person's genitals. i dont know why they call it that, but someone invented the term.
 
healother said:
Tonight I did get out. I went to a party and interacted with lots of real people and talked to some girls. i didnt have to worry about the sex part though, since the party and the girls there sucked, but hey whatever.


manual sex means using something other than the mouth or genitals to stimulate the other person's genitals. i dont know why they call it that, but someone invented the term.
Click to expand...
powerdrill your penis off
 
redsamurai said:
isn't the new testament supposed to be built from the old??
Click to expand...

Well, Jesus did (allegedly) say, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matt. 5:17-18

So, he came to fulfil - or (according to the Greek translation of the word fulfil), to make full, to fill, to fill up, to cause to abound, to perfect.

But, as someone else said about christians picking and choosing, and manipulating scripture to suit their needs at the moment so they look good and everyone else looks bad...I've seen/heard MANY christians use the arguement "that was the old testament, and Jesus came so we don't have to live under that (or some bullshit to that effect)."

As someone else here said also: be a good person, have a good heart. Love God, love others (didn't Jesus say those were the 2 greatest commandments, and that all the commandments could be summed up in that?).

You have to decide what that means for you, and what's right for you. Gathering others' opinions is ok, but in the end you're all alone. Or, your in the heat of the moment with some lucky lady and you've got to think quickly! ;-)

Either way, good luck and whatever you decide will ultimately end up being something you might possibly regret later...or it won't.

Easy huh?
 
musclemom said:
Heal, the more you read of the Bible (and I strongly advise you to actually read the silly ass book, cover to cover, as opposed to permitting someone else to regurgitate THEIR interpretation of what is held between it's covers) the more you will find hypocricy ...

The restrictions against premarital sex, as far as my recollections extend, are limited to the old Testament (personally I've always thought Paul was either a closet homo or mysogynist, haven't figured out which). Well, if you're not a Jew, the Old Testament doesn't apply to you, does it? Why do xtians get themselves twisted up with Old Testament laws and restrictions when the Messiah said "I am the way, the truth and the life?" Did he tell y'all to keep kosher? NO, he said something to the effect that sin is not what goes INTO a man's mouth, but what comes out. So if you eat ham ...

Okay, you really want to be anal (in the psychological sense) ... the 10 commandments, are God's laws, RIGHT? These are the biggies, right? ADULTERY is mentioned. Adultery is having sex OUTSIDE of your marriage, meaning you or the person you're banging, is married. Specifically, extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations. It does NOT mean UNmarried, consentual sex.

The problem with unmarried sex existed within Hebrew society, lands and property were automatically conferred to the first born son (before DNA testing). That was a MAJOR issue then and THAT was where the value of female virginity lie (and why adultery is such an issue). It didn't have shit to do with "sin." It had to do with inheritance, seriously.

Chastity and abstinence are, historically speaking, recent issues in xtian religion.

Hell, priests used to be allowed to marry until less than 600 years ago.

Okay, this is an interesting web page about Jesus and his opinions on sex, and IMHO, the crap that came around 1400 years after his death doesn't count:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sex_jesu.htm

Heal, the only lesson was to be a good, compassionate person ... torturing yourself about having sex or not is not good, because you're hurting yourself, which is against Christianity (you're hurting one of God's creatures, aren't you? Torturing yourself mentally ...). Either be abstinant and proud of it or engage in relations and realize that rubbing bathing suit parts with another person isn't evil.

You want to see evil, you read about the holocaust, you read about John Wayne Gayce and Jeffrey Dahmler, that's EVIL, man, THAT shit is evil. Having consentual intercourse with another person ain't evil. Silly, messy, awkward, sure, but not evil.

Evil destroys joy, life and hope.

... course, I'm a pagan ... matter of fact I'm going to an initiation ceremony tomorrow , so what do I know? :D
Click to expand...

I've read most of the Bible. I read through most of the old testament and most of the new testament. It's tough to read it cover to cover within a few months, cuz i usually burnout, but I've still managed to cover most of it.

In the New Testament Jesus speaks against fornication in Mark 7:21 when he says "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders "

He also alludes that it is not good later, when he is talking about divorce in Mark 10::
6 "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female.'
7 `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

And of course Paul speaks against fornication all the time. So the new testament is quite against premarital sex actually.

I know that adultery is the only thing about sex listed in the 10 commandments, but then again back in the old days with people marrying so soon, maybe adultery was more of a problem than fornication?

The Hebrew land laws are a good point. My friend mentioned that one to me too.

I dont want to torture myself. but sometimes people do things that are hard, because its good in the long run. Like a person going on a diet. Granted I would never refrain from sex if I was married to someone, but there is still some similarity between these 2 concepts.

Jimsbbc said:
What is the point of waiting until you are 29 yrs old to finally have sex, get married, have sex for two years, and then get divorced. You are now back at square one.

Abstaining from sex does not make you any more virtous than a cronic masterbator.

If you aren't having sex, then you are masterbating, which is just as sinful. It is impossible to get aroused and masterbate without thinking illicit, sexual thoughts.

There are preists and monks all over the world masterbating on a regular basis who are just as sinful in God's eyes as porn stars because they are fornicating and defiling themselves with carnal thoughts and engaging in sexual sin.
Click to expand...

First off, divorce is wrong too.

Secondly, so I guess thinking about having sex and having sex are both equally wrong? I know that way of thinking doesnt apply to other sins. I would consider committing adultery to be way worse than fantasizing about adultery.

Jimsbbc said:
The only way to avoid sexual sin is to neuter yourself and never touch your dick, outside of marriage. That is why the bible does not mention masterbation, because it is a necessary evil. Imagine our society without masterbation. Rape would be common place. You couldn't walk from your house to your car without getting jumped by someone.
Click to expand...

yeah, I always wondered why the bible didnt mention masturbation haha, but it mentions lust. there are some christians out there who have supposedly learned how to stop lusting after women. check out www.lustfreeliving.org

im not sure if its possible to stop lusting entirely, but i know its possible to reduce the frequency of doing so.

redsamurai said:
heal.......is there someone out there you really care about, respect etc....????

and is there an issue about having sex with said person???
Click to expand...

no there isnt. but im going to be hanging out with more girls soon. and i might even consider getting physical even if i dont find a girl i love. i mean why hold off on something great like sex? The bible, thats the main reason why I'd hold off. It bothers me.
 
healother said:
I've read most of the Bible. I read through most of the old testament and most of the new testament. It's tough to read it cover to cover within a few months, cuz i usually burnout, but I've still managed to cover most of it.
Click to expand...

You haven't even read in entirety the one book you place your fucking life and beliefs in?!

There went any respect I had for your e-person. Do the world a favor and kill self.

HTFH



:cow:
 
Which part of the bible forbids premarital sex? I know adultery is condemned, but I'm asking about fornication?
 
im getting dressed, going to the beach, and picking up out of sheer frustration over this thread omg wtf holy shit fuck me drunk and bury me fucking pregnant gimme a triple vodka right fucking now fuckit ill get it myself
 
healother said:
Don't worry i posted this on 3 other forums as well. (one of them was a Christian forum) I like the whole rounded viewpoint.

Waiting makes sense, for me more so due to the emotional attachment that can come with sex. But waiting until marriage? it just seems a bit extreme, why not just wait until you're with someone you love?

Here's the thing. what if you didnt get married? what if you died without having sex? How would that be a good deal? Are you willing to risk that, just so you can say the only women you had sex with was your wife?

So is sex really less special with your wife now because you had it with another person? I thought what made sex special was that it was with a certain person that you really like, not because it was the only person you'd been with.
Click to expand...


It was at first, but that was kinda my hangup. Now, it doesn't matter who came first as long as I'm the last and I will be, but it would of been nice to know I was the ONLY one. Sex is great, but there are so many other way more important issues to deal with/struggle with, like death. K to you for going to other boards. It's smart of you to get many different views, but of course the bible should be your answer. It' snot easy man, I'm not going to tell you it is even close to easy, and failing is part of being a human. All I can tell you is to try our hardest to do what is right, and if you do make mistakes, hope you don't come away with HIV or an unwanted baby, etc. Just be careful if you do decide to have sex and protect yourself.
 
musclemom said:
Heal, the more you read of the Bible (and I strongly advise you to actually read the silly ass book, cover to cover, as opposed to permitting someone else to regurgitate THEIR interpretation of what is held between it's covers) the more you will find hypocricy ...

The restrictions against premarital sex, as far as my recollections extend, are limited to the old Testament (personally I've always thought Paul was either a closet homo or mysogynist, haven't figured out which). Well, if you're not a Jew, the Old Testament doesn't apply to you, does it? Why do xtians get themselves twisted up with Old Testament laws and restrictions when the Messiah said "I am the way, the truth and the life?" Did he tell y'all to keep kosher? NO, he said something to the effect that sin is not what goes INTO a man's mouth, but what comes out. So if you eat ham ...

Okay, you really want to be anal (in the psychological sense) ... the 10 commandments, are God's laws, RIGHT? These are the biggies, right? ADULTERY is mentioned. Adultery is having sex OUTSIDE of your marriage, meaning you or the person you're banging, is married. Specifically, extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations. It does NOT mean UNmarried, consentual sex.

The problem with unmarried sex existed within Hebrew society, lands and property were automatically conferred to the first born son (before DNA testing). That was a MAJOR issue then and THAT was where the value of female virginity lie (and why adultery is such an issue). It didn't have shit to do with "sin." It had to do with inheritance, seriously.

Chastity and abstinence are, historically speaking, recent issues in xtian religion.

Hell, priests used to be allowed to marry until less than 600 years ago.

Okay, this is an interesting web page about Jesus and his opinions on sex, and IMHO, the crap that came around 1400 years after his death doesn't count:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sex_jesu.htm

Heal, the only lesson was to be a good, compassionate person ... torturing yourself about having sex or not is not good, because you're hurting yourself, which is against Christianity (you're hurting one of God's creatures, aren't you? Torturing yourself mentally ...). Either be abstinant and proud of it or engage in relations and realize that rubbing bathing suit parts with another person isn't evil.

You want to see evil, you read about the holocaust, you read about John Wayne Gayce and Jeffrey Dahmler, that's EVIL, man, THAT shit is evil. Having consentual intercourse with another person ain't evil. Silly, messy, awkward, sure, but not evil.

Evil destroys joy, life and hope.

... course, I'm a pagan ... matter of fact I'm going to an initiation ceremony tomorrow , so what do I know? :D
Click to expand...

The above bold is untrue. I like you MM, but your pagan views aren't going to allow you to really give an unbiased view of the "silly ass book" as you call it are they?
 
Jimsbbc said:
What is the point of waiting until you are 29 yrs old to finally have sex, get married, have sex for two years, and then get divorced. You are now back at square one.

Abstaining from sex does not make you any more virtous than a cronic masterbator.

If you aren't having sex, then you are masterbating, which is just as sinful. It is impossible to get aroused and masterbate without thinking illicit, sexual thoughts.

There are preists and monks all over the world masterbating on a regular basis who are just as sinful in God's eyes as porn stars because they are fornicating and defiling themselves with carnal thoughts and engaging in sexual sin.
Click to expand...


Well a 2 year marriage is the result of our society more so than the intent of god. He meant for marriage to be forever, but humans have screwed it up.
 
redsamurai said:
I'm not sure he is.......christians, and I'm surrounded by them on a daily basis, pick and choose shit all the time. I"ve never been around people whose logic matrix's are more malleable. They can make the most absurd connections with the straightest of faces...........they can do this because the argument ALWAYS comes down to faith..........there is no proof of their god......just faith. And I would never take anyone's faith from them........but when they use "faith" to dictate MY life...??? I've got issues......
Click to expand...


Yes the do do this, I agree. Thats why whenever we have this discussion on here about religion or the bible or christians, I STRONGLY encourage people so stop basing their view of the bible or god on HUMANS and read the book for yourself. THAT is the answer, not the feedback from humans. We screw the perfect will of god up on a constant basis, myself included. People judge a book by it's messenger and claim they are open minded. Thats the last thing they are. PLEASE, don't take a humans word for it, go read the bible.
 
Pre-marital sex and extra-marital sex are not really discussed too much in the Bible. Christianity's problems with sexual freedom are a direct result of adoption of Augustinian theology and ethics. Aquinas refined this into the current form of sex as a Sacred act.

St. Augustine was a party animal before returning to Christianity. He had a concubine and was pretty randy. Most of his writings on the subject of sex deal with his struggle with lust. Which may be why the Church today frowns on sexual freedom. Read more of Augustine's philosophy and that of Thomas Aquinas to see how Christianity became puritanical and it may give you a more objective view. Live a little, healother.
 
Geesh, listening to that Jesuit, Father Karle, in High School senior theology may actually have a pay off? Smart man, smelled like a fish market.
 
healother said:
I am caught between 2 poles, and there is quite a bit of tension going on.
Click to expand...
Oh er mrs.
Vs or on?
You're seeing it all wrong.
It's essentially all words
and stories
and echoes of the past
What’s important is doing whatever makes you happy.
 
healother said:
I dont want to torture myself. but sometimes people do things that are hard, because its good in the long run. Like a person going on a diet. Granted I would never refrain from sex if I was married to someone, but there is still some similarity between these 2 concepts.
Click to expand...
My dear, you're either doing one of two things:
1. Looking for a spiritual loophole

OR

2. Looking for justification as to why you're allowed to feel superior over everyone who has come to their own spiritual peace.
 
rykertest said:
The above bold is untrue. I like you MM, but your pagan views aren't going to allow you to really give an unbiased view of the "silly ass book" as you call it are they?
Click to expand...
I've read the book, dear, that's why I can call it silly, not to mention it's a piece of crap from a purely literary POV. However, read it objectively, the promotion of mysogyny, bigotry, abuse, subjugation of those different from you, etc., etc., etc., is utterly horrifying.

Do you really think the Great Creator of the Universe could possibly be as petty and immature, emotionally, as promoted in that book? I'd rather believe in NO god, at all, than believe god is the biggest asshole in the universe.
 
rykertest said:
dumbest thing to come out of your mouth.
Click to expand...


If you have self esteem and insecurity issues and feel the need to believe in a fairytale for your own justification... more power to you. The hypocrisy that abounds in that book is matched only by the hypocrisy of those who so feverently believe in it.
 
samoth said:
You haven't even read in entirety the one book you place your fucking life and beliefs in?!

There went any respect I had for your e-person. Do the world a favor and kill self.

HTFH



:cow:
Click to expand...

I've gone over it before and the major sections in different classes, I know what every book is about. Even once you do read the bible, its very difficult to remember everything from everywhere. I use concordances to look up important issues, and other types of searches.

cmon samoth, I thought you were one of the good people here, and now you are telling me you have no respect and want me to kill myself, wtf?

rykertest said:
It was at first, but that was kinda my hangup. Now, it doesn't matter who came first as long as I'm the last and I will be, but it would of been nice to know I was the ONLY one. Sex is great, but there are so many other way more important issues to deal with/struggle with, like death. K to you for going to other boards. It's smart of you to get many different views, but of course the bible should be your answer. It' snot easy man, I'm not going to tell you it is even close to easy, and failing is part of being a human. All I can tell you is to try our hardest to do what is right, and if you do make mistakes, hope you don't come away with HIV or an unwanted baby, etc. Just be careful if you do decide to have sex and protect yourself.
Click to expand...

ok, well im glad you've recovered from your hangup some, because that will make your relaitonship better. I think that sex is given a LOT of importance in Christian circles, maybe too much, because they call it all sacred, but at the same time it cant be that important, cuz if people die before they are married, then the wont have sex. its kind of a paradox.

I try to find answers in the Bible, but its tough to know whether the rules about sex still applies to today or not.
And if it does then it feels like I'm damned if I do or damned if I dont. If I dont have sex I will be a frustrated man, if I have it I may feel guilty. So its a tough situation to be in.

musclemom said:
My dear, you're either doing one of two things:
1. Looking for a spiritual loophole

OR

2. Looking for justification as to why you're allowed to feel superior over everyone who has come to their own spiritual peace.
Click to expand...

you are reading way too much into this. it's a point of interest on my mind, and a struggle for me, that's it.
 
Lets look at it this way..

what good comes from Pre-marital sex... or rather fornication??

unwed mothers, fatherless children
genital warts
aids
STD
and too many other issues that go with it..

If we lived in a society that was chast, what would be avoided??
 
Society has beed trying to control female sexuality since the beginning of time. Our culture is not any different, however, it is becoming more progressive with time.
 
musclemom said:
I've read the book, dear, that's why I can call it silly, not to mention it's a piece of crap from a purely literary POV. However, read it objectively, the promotion of mysogyny, bigotry, abuse, subjugation of those different from you, etc., etc., etc., is utterly horrifying.

Do you really think the Great Creator of the Universe could possibly be as petty and immature, emotionally, as promoted in that book? I'd rather believe in NO god, at all, than believe god is the biggest asshole in the universe.
Click to expand...

and man created god, in his image.
 
healother said:
I've gone over it before and the major sections in different classes, I know what every book is about. Even once you do read the bible, its very difficult to remember everything from everywhere. I use concordances to look up important issues, and other types of searches.

cmon samoth, I thought you were one of the good people here, and now you are telling me you have no respect and want me to kill myself, wtf?
Click to expand...

You're the one with conflicting morals based on a book you explicitly stated you never completely read.



:cow:
 
well, I think it's the book that's confusing us......it doesn't gel with what we're seeing out there. When people open their hearts.......they kind of start to see the intolerance, ie evil, of the book. To call that book the "perfect will of god"?? Wowsa.......I would only reserve judgement on that book if I was privy to it's original version.....and also the writings of jesus himself, which myteriously has vanished.


rykertest said:
Yes the do do this, I agree. Thats why whenever we have this discussion on here about religion or the bible or christians, I STRONGLY encourage people so stop basing their view of the bible or god on HUMANS and read the book for yourself. THAT is the answer, not the feedback from humans. We screw the perfect will of god up on a constant basis, myself included. People judge a book by it's messenger and claim they are open minded. Thats the last thing they are. PLEASE, don't take a humans word for it, go read the bible.
Click to expand...
 
Hell, just fuck and whore around. What's the point of worrying? By the own "catch" of the Bible you can just ask forgiveness and ZINGO!! a new clean slate.
 
Never ever have sex with anyone. It's horrible. I cry myself to sleep every night from the memories of my own inadequacies. And then I wake up, get my ass back on that proverbial horse and fail miserably at trying to please a few more women.
 
HumanTarget said:
i like to think of God as a big baseball fan. and i think what he wants most is effort. as long as you're playing hard, all is good. try and play by the rules. if ya don't, you get benched. or suspended. or traded to a team in the 9th Circle of Hell....
Click to expand...


Okay this is great advice..... :qt:
 
Update:

I'm still struggling with this. The other day when I was grinding with girls at the club my conscience was bothering me later.

I know this may sound odd, and many of you think I should be able to be sexual and not feel guilty about it. But since I'm a Christian I think I'm always going to feel guilty to some degree about sex.
Unless, if I became married then I wouldnt. But that wouldnt make any sense, since I dont even want marriage right now.

It's tough to be physical with women, because I've noticed they ask me why I'm nervous while I'm dancing with them. Or awhile back when I tried being physical with that one girl but felt uncomfortable at the same time. She picked up on it and said that was why she stopped giving me the handjob.

I dont know if I'm ever going to be able to shake the guilt when it comes to being physical with a woman before i'm married with her.

I guess I can try to just forget about my guilt and continue to try to progress sexually with women, But will the guilt ever go away? Or am I stuck with it forever?

Will I ever be normal with my sexual development? (normal: being able to have premarital sex without guilt) I get the vibe that other Christians in America are able to have sex and not worry about it. I just want to be comfortable doing these things with women.

But if I never feel completely comfortable, then I guess I gotta explain that part of me to women, every time I am with one of them :(
But what are they gonna think or say when they discover I have moral conflicts?

I just want to choose to be sexual, and try the hardest I can to not feel guilty about it.
 
healother said:
I guess I can try to just forget about my guilt and continue to try to progress sexually with women, But will the guilt ever go away?

Or am I stuck with it forever?
Click to expand...

You're a guilt lifer.

healother said:
Will I ever be normal with my sexual development?
(normal: being able to have premarital sex without guilt) I get the vibe that other Christians in America are able to have sex and not worry about it. I just want to be comfortable doing these things with women.
Click to expand...

Nope.

healother said:
But if I never feel completely comfortable, then I guess I gotta explain that part of me to women, every time I am with one of them :(
But what are they gonna think or say when they discover I have moral conflicts?
Click to expand...

Some will think its sweet. Some will laugh at you. Some might think I have a new toy. Some might even agree with your. OMG who gives a shit what other people think.


healother said:
I just want to choose to be sexual, and try the hardest I can to not feel guilty about it.
Click to expand...

Boy are you fucked
 
healother said:
Update:

I'm still struggling with this. The other day when I was grinding with girls at the club my conscience was bothering me later.

I know this may sound odd, and many of you think I should be able to be sexual and not feel guilty about it. But since I'm a Christian I think I'm always going to feel guilty to some degree about sex.
Unless, if I became married then I wouldnt. But that wouldnt make any sense, since I dont even want marriage right now.

It's tough to be physical with women, because I've noticed they ask me why I'm nervous while I'm dancing with them. Or awhile back when I tried being physical with that one girl but felt uncomfortable at the same time. She picked up on it and said that was why she stopped giving me the handjob.

I dont know if I'm ever going to be able to shake the guilt when it comes to being physical with a woman before i'm married with her.

I guess I can try to just forget about my guilt and continue to try to progress sexually with women, But will the guilt ever go away? Or am I stuck with it forever?

Will I ever be normal with my sexual development? (normal: being able to have premarital sex without guilt) I get the vibe that other Christians in America are able to have sex and not worry about it. I just want to be comfortable doing these things with women.

But if I never feel completely comfortable, then I guess I gotta explain that part of me to women, every time I am with one of them :(
But what are they gonna think or say when they discover I have moral conflicts?

I just want to choose to be sexual, and try the hardest I can to not feel guilty about it.
Click to expand...

healother,

you are a tool.
 
healother, obviously you are not prepared for sex or intimacy of any sort...maybe some light shit, like hand holding or check kissing.
but i really don't think you are mature enough to progress beyond that stage...you are too conflicted and i think guilt will overtake you if you did anything remotely sexual.
i look at your life from my computer screen and honestly it makes me a bit sad.
seeing a healthy young dude as yourself in such turmoil...bro some really good yrs are slipping by you while you over analyze everything. you don't seem happy, is that living a god's life?
do not have sex, repeat do not. the guilt will haunt you
 
JavaGuru said:
As others have said, the Bible is the last place to go for moral advice.
Click to expand...
is Duteronomy new or old testament?
pretty sick dude
 
JavaGuru said:
"God" is a pretty much a douchebag.
Click to expand...
i'm not gonna go that far.
i'm pretty much a athesit anymore, though i was raised catholic
still i attend the occasional mass, just to kinda hedge my bets
 
Gambino said:
i'm not gonna go that far.
i'm pretty much a athesit anymore, though i was raised catholic
still i attend the occasional mass, just to kinda hedge my bets
Click to expand...
Commanding people to murder their children and engage in genocide is major douchebaggery. :)
 
JavaGuru said:
Commanding people to murder their children and engage in genocide is major douchebaggery. :)
Click to expand...
but it is perfectly legal to murder children in our "great" society...just as long as they are still in the womb
 
There was a line in the movie Dogma (actually, there were several good lines in that movie), but this line sums up Heal:

"You don't celebrate your religion, you mourn it."

Be that as it may, Heal, you're a Christian, why are you asking us? Ask Christ.

See, here's how it works when you're a pagan, you have a problem. You don't know what to do about it. You try all the usual methods to find an answer (scrying, tarot, runes, astrology), nada. You MEDITATE on the issue, journal your thoughts. Before you fall asleep you ask your patron gods/goddesses for help or whatever deity works for you. Bam, usually within a week you get your answer. You either dream it or it comes to you in a moment of clarity. Whether it's the gods or your higher self coming through (because you've finally shut up) it doesn't matter.

Meditate on it, journal your thoughts, that is the ONLY true answer, you silly ass.

At best, you're only gonna get more conflicted by asking the horny fuckers on this board for their degenerated opinions because really about one quarter are saying do the world a favor and kill yourself right now; one quarter think you should just go become a priest and resolve all these guilt bullshit issues; the rest are split between thinking you should just stop wasting time, get liquored up, and go fuck anything that will spread for 20 seconds (even if you have to pay for it), or just be honest with yourself and embrace your latent homosexuality :qt:

You either be celibate and it is your life (like working out or eating right) or it's not. You are being a hypocrite in this state though. Because Christ said, "I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery."

You're letting the big man down every time you ogle a pair of tits, seriously. You're making Christ cry.
 
You know God is sitting back in his or her easy chair looking down at this and is thinking in restrospect this "bible" idea wasn't the best idea but one of those things you can look back on as a teachable moment.
 
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