Tesosterone Patch

[Jazzy1170]

In a male low test would be 200 and high would be 700. Mine is 360 and I'm cancer free. I'm disabiled. 5' 9'', 195lbs, and 50 years old with 13 1/2 " arms. I can only work my upper body with weights. I have a very hard time putting muscle mass on my upper body. Do you think the patch would help me out? I read the more muscle you have it will help in burning fat.
Thanks, Jazzy

 

[athlete03]

The more test you have, the more muscle you can build, whether it comes from a patch, shot, pill, etc.

 

[Jazzy1170]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't think my post went through, so I did it again. The doc doesn't seem to want to put me on the patch cause of cancer. I told her if she doesn't I will find another doctor. It's suppose to help out with arthritis also. Me being only 50 years old 360 is very low.
Jazzy

 

[atwa]

the patch isnt really going to do alot for you........but it will help alittle. there is other stuff that you can talk to your doctor about,other than the patch. the other stuff will work much better for you.

 

[Horny]

HEY MAN, DEFINATELY GIVE THE PATCH A GO! 360 is way to low. That's the testosterone level of an old man! You want to have 600-1000ng/dl. The pathces are the best form of replacement available. The one draw back is that you got to have 2-4 huge band aid things on your legs all day long. Its better than shots though because it mimcks normal testosterone level fluctuations the best. I was on it for 6 months follwoing a heavy cycle of roids that screwed my natural test levels up bad. They were coming in at around where you are at now (325, 340 and 400). I felt like shit and I looked bad too. After 6 months of 7.5-10mg of androderm patches a day (don't let them push that 2.5 to 5mg patch crap on you, that is to low, you need 7.5 to 10 mg a day to have high normal testosterone levels) I felt the best I ever had in my whole life (until I started abusing the high dosage testosterone shots and other roids again). You will be so glad you did it. Your energy, mood, libido, and lean body mass will all be tremedously improved. Just don't go the route of suprapysiological dosages and there is no way you should worry about cancer. Best of luck!

 

[Jazzy1170]

Hi atwa,

Atwa,
You said other stuff. Do you mean steroid shots? In the 80's I tryed inj
steroids and my feet swelled up real bad. I'm hoping my doc will see it my way. I told her, just look t my arms. My bicepts and tris are so small, and that's what I use to get up and down with.
Thanks, Jazzy

 

[Horny]

Re: Hi atwa,

Atwa,
You said other stuff. Do you mean steroid shots? In the 80's I tryed inj
steroids and my feet swelled up real bad. I'm hoping my doc will see it my way. I told her, just look t my arms. My bicepts and tris are so small, and that's what I use to get up and down with.
Thanks, Jazzy

atwa doesn't know what he is talking about. He wants you to cycle heavy dosges. You don't want to do that. JUst get the patches and you will be glad you did.

 

[Jazzy1170]

Thanks Horny,

I know if she does OK the patch she will want me on it and low doses, and recheck my bood. I'm ask for the 7.5mg. I do feel like a old man. No engery and even when I do work out it doesn't seem to help at all. You hve made me feel better already just being on my side. I think I'll go for a rde in my elect. wheelchair and get some Arizona Sun.
Thanks again,
Jazzy

 

[Jazzy1170]

Thanks again Horny,

Last week my doc told me my test was normal. Yesterday I asked her what was normal. When she told me 360 I almost hit the roof. I told her I have bad dics in my back and my test must have been low for years. I could tell a big chang starting at 31 years of age. I told her no wonder I'm s screwed up. I told her if I don't get my way, I'm getting another doctor. I told her it's my body and I know damn well my testosterone is on on the edge of an old man and I'm not taking no for an answer. I sure hope she see's it my way. The doc's office is close by. I can drive over there in my wheelchair.
I can't even stand up straight anymore.
I'm wondering if I would grab on to a cloths line bar and hang there if it would help me.
Jazzy

 

[ajc]

That's some funny shit...If I saw somebody wearing that I would walk up and say "Trying to quit?"

 

[atwa]

horny,you are wrong. i dont want him to do a heavy cycle of juice. i feel that he has better opitions than the patch. he needs to talk to his doctor more. so fuck off!!

 

[Jazzy1170]

ajc

What is fnny shit. I was saying if I hung by a cloths line to help straighten by back out is's funny. How would like to be in a wheelchair. 2 years ago I could still walk some. I still think my low test has a lot to do with my bad dics, ect.
Jazzy

 

[atwa]

jazzy, i wish nothing but the best for you. good luck my friend.

 

[Jazzy1170]

thanks to all of you who answered

All I wanted to know if the patch would help me. I do think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
Have a good one and smile!!!!
Jazzy...

 

[Horny]

you could always go with injections at 100mg or so of test enanthate a week. It won't mimick natural testosterone level fluctuations as well as the patch does though. They are more convenient though if you can self administer them.
I think that it is very likely that the testosterone will help your back out, at least a little bit. The doctor won't agree though.

 

[Lift Or Die]

Good luck to you Jazzy. Seek out another doctor if the one you have now is not willing to help.

 

[Jazzy1170]

lift or die

Do you think I should ask for 7.5mgs.
Horny thought 2.5 or 5mgs wouldn't be enough. I'm at 360 now. What would get me up to 600 plus. If I work my upper body, I would like to see some results. It should help out on the sorness on the next day also. I just started training Monday of this week, but I will probably quit if I can't get anything at all out of it in a month lets say. At 28 years of age I grew like mad. I know I won't do that now cause of my age and I can only do my upper body. I have lots of body fat, from doing nothing I know. But finding out how low my test is, really bothers me. How many mgs do you think the doc should give me and how much of an increase would that give me. Any answers on this subject would be nice.
I would like to get rid of a lot of my fat and some body mass would be nice.
I just don't want to go overboard, but get my test back to where it should be.
Thanks Again,
Jazzy

 

[Horny]

Re: lift or die

Do you think I should ask for 7.5mgs.
Horny thought 2.5 or 5mgs wouldn't be enough. I'm at 360 now. What would get me up to 600 plus. If I work my upper body, I would like to see some results. It should help out on the sorness on the next day also. I just started training Monday of this week, but I will probably quit if I can't get anything at all out of it in a month lets say. At 28 years of age I grew like mad. I know I won't do that now cause of my age and I can only do my upper body. I have lots of body fat, from doing nothing I know. But finding out how low my test is, really bothers me. How many mgs do you think the doc should give me and how much of an increase would that give me. Any answers on this subject would be nice.
I would like to get rid of a lot of my fat and some body mass would be nice.
I just don't want to go overboard, but get my test back to where it should be.
Thanks Again,
Jazzy

7.5 mgs a day will give you morning testosterone levels of about 700ng/dl. 5 mgs a day will give you morning levels of about 500ng/dl but they will drop off real quick and real low by the end of the day. THis will be the case after about 3 weeks during which time your natural testosterone levels will be shut off. In the beggining eah respective amount will give higher values than this.

 

[Jazzy1170]

Horny

Horny, I guess now I don't get it. You said 7.5 will give me about 700mg. Is that with the 360 I now have? Or would it be 1060mg total. I thought being on the the patch, my test would stay the same through out the day, cause you ware the patch 24 hours a day. I have heard people being on the patch for years. You say my test levels would drop in about 3 weeks. Now if I went on a 7.5mg patch and the way I get it it should stay that way at 700 as long as I'm on the patch right? This is all new to me and you have been a big help to me.
Thanks again,
Jazzy

 

[Horny]

OK JAzzy here is how it is.
Taking extra testosterone will shut off your natural production of the hormone. THis won't take place until about 2 weeks after you start the testosterone. All I know is that guys who take 7.5mg day after day after day end up with morning serum testosterone levels of about 700ng/dl. Some alittle more some alittle less.
If you were to slap on 7.5mg today you would wind up with testosterone levels higher than 700ng/dl. THis is because your natural testosterone production would not have been shut off or turned down until after about 2 weeks of taking the patch.

The best bet in my opinion is to just take 7.5mg-10mg a day right from the start and have slightly elevated testosterone levels for 2 weeks or so. After this time, after your body adjust its own production of testosterone accordingly, you will have a reliable high normal level of testosterone day after day. Of course you will have become dependent upon external sources for your testosterone by this point. If you decide to stop it would take some time but your natural testosterone levels would eventualy come back to what they were before.

It is posible that if you supplement with only 2.5mg of testosterone per day that this will not shut off your natural terstosterone levels and you will wind up with the same test levels that you would ultimately get with a higher dose (in other words you would have your natural testosterone + the 2.5mg from the patch instead of just the 2.5-10mg from the patch)> this is not 100 percent and would require experiment and a lot of hassle such as going back and forth to the hospital to get your blood levels checked over a period of months. IT probably won't work in the end.
I wouldn't do it this way. It would not be worth the trouble.

The patch is suppposed to mimick natural daily fluctuations in hormone levels. A normal man has his highest testosterone levels in the morning and they fall about 200ng/d from that peak by the afternoon. That means that if a guy came in and got his morning levels checked at 700, they would be about 500 by the afternoon. THis is why 5mg a day of the patch is no good. It only gives you 500ng/dl in the morning and by the afternoon your levels will have dropped down to 300 again. This will onlyt give you higher test levels than what you currently have for about 6 hours of the day. This won't be worth all the money and effort to get and use the patch.

If you got injections weekly, and I stress weekly, they will keep your testosterone levels at the same point all day long instead of mimicking the natural pattern. YOu might want to try this eventualy but it is best to just start witht the simple patch. I have used both injections and the patch and found that the pharmokinetics of the patch produce a better psychological response than the injections do. They make you feel better, I don;t know exactly why.

YOu're testicels will not shrink from using the patches. Your LH will be shut off not your fsh. YOur FSH wont get shut of unless you use higher dosages. FSH is what makes your testicles big. It is possible that your testicles might shrink about 5 percent but remeber it is always 100 percent reversible. ANyways 5 percent should not even be noticeable.

Have the doctor check your estradiol levels next time you get a blood test. I am betting that they are below the normal range for men if your testosterone levels are so low. THat is under 10pg/ml, THis iwll be a valid medial reason toget testosterone supplementation (i.e. you don;t have enough estradiol in your bodyand this could be causing you bone problems)

 

[Jazzy1170]

Thanks again Horny

Horny,
I wrote down everything you said. Now it looks like I can get backup on my test. Now I see why you say o take at least 7.5mgs. And about my test going down in the afternoon, and having my Estradiol checked also. The doc will know I mean busiess when I know this much information. Horny you sure do know your stuff, and thanks again from the bottom of my heart.
I don't know how long all of will take, but I will remember you for Life.
Jazzy

 

[Horny]

Re: Thanks again Horny

Horny,
I wrote down everything you said. Now it looks like I can get backup on my test. Now I see why you say o take at least 7.5mgs. And about my test going down in the afternoon, and having my Estradiol checked also. The doc will know I mean busiess when I know this much information. Horny you sure do know your stuff, and thanks again from the bottom of my heart.
I don't know how long all of will take, but I will remember you for Life.
Jazzy

email me whenever you want if you got any more questions.
[email protected]

 

[Jazzy1170]

Thanks Horny

You have email
Jazzy

 

[Kilroy]

I'm in the same boat, Jazzy - asked my doc to test
my test, & he just told me it was "normal", & wouldn't
give me the lab results tho I asked for them repeatedly.
(Not that I can actually /talk/ to my doctor - I can
either schedule a $100 5-minute office visit, or I
can leave a message with the answering service,
and his secretary will call me back and ask me to
schedule a $100 5-minute office visit.)
He also threw in an extra test I didn't want that cost
me another $150. I only got the results by refusing
to pay the bill for 6 months until the lab finally sent
me the results... under 400!
And me in my thirties! Pisses me off. All "normal"
means is there's a range on the lab sheet that says
"260-1000: Normal" - not by age, or anything -
and if you fall in that, you're "normal".
Never trust a doctor! Always get the lab report!

Optimal, BTW, is supposedly 600-700 if you're
not bodybuilding.

Think I'll post a poll on what levels people actually
have.

 

[Jazzy1170]

Hi Kilroy,

At least I do have insurance. It pays for some of the bill anyway. What pssed me off is when last week the doc said I was normal and this week I wanted to know what normal was, well enough said. Then the assent doc didn't want to put me on the patch cause of cancer and I passed the prostate test, I started to come ungluded nicely but frim. She is suppose to call me Friday. I'll be calling Friday afrtrnoon if she doesn't call in the morning. I started lifting weghts on and off when I was 28. When I hit 31 I noticed a big drop and not gettin anywhere, and I bet it wasn't just stopping point. I bet I was having test problems then. Best of luck to the both of us. A new thread sounds nice.
Jazzy