Tell me about Aikido....

[DanielBishop]

Hey, I've never been to this board before and never really been into martial arts. I did Tae Kwon Do for a few weeks when I was about 8, and did some boxing training (unseriously) for probably a year or so when I was about 16-17. That's about the extent of it, so I don't know much really.

Anyway, when we graduate from university (a few years off yet) my wife and would like to move to Korea and we'd like to start a few hobbies, one of which is a martial art.

From what I know of it, I like the sound of Aikido. We wouldn't REALLY be doing it for practical self-defense, since the last thing we want is to get into a fight and we're not the sort of people to be in those situations anyway.... but you never know what can happen, I guess. I would like to be proficient with an art which would give me confidence and peace-of-mind that I could immobilise an attacker. I'm not interested in competition or being flashy.... just want something fun which we could do in a class which would be good for socialising and fitness, and which might have some self-defense benefit if need be.

If anyone has time, please tell me about Aikido. I'm interested to know what it's about. Also any other arts you're familiar with, which deal with grappling, arm/wrist locks and the like.

Thanks!!

 

[danielson]

as far as i can tell its a very soft, and depending on your teacher spiritual art

i have no idea about the fitness inviolved as i;ve never ben to a class, io dopnt think there is an awful lot of striking in it, and since your using your opponents energy in a lot of the moves i dont think its as physical as other styles, but then again im not as qualified to answer


nearly all styles of kung fu if taught proerly have chin-na (locking) fast wrestling and striking, but the best for locking (traditionally) seem to be crane, eagle, mantis and maybe a few others ive forgotten, as do all the varuious tai-chi styles

ju-jitsu has some good locking techniques it it if i recall correctly, JKD (jeet kun do) does too i think,


im sure you could find an instrutor who teaches a mix of everything, but if your looking for just locking, JJ and aikido seem good choices

 

[DanielBishop]

Thanks for that!!

I guess I'll have to wait until we get over there and search around to all different classes and see what we like.

I appreciate your reply.

 

[Thaibox]

If you're going to move to Korea, why not take advantage of that, and study a Korean art. There are many good styles, some with grappling incorporated, as well as some modern adaptations of traditional styles that have recognized the importance of grappling and introduced it into their system.

Chung Moo Doe
Hapkido
Hwa Rang Do
Kuk Sool Won
Kumdo
Pyong Hwa Do
Tae Kwon-Do
Tang Soo Do/Soo
Bahk Do

However, Aikido is an excellent art. With all my current injuries, I am going to begin studying it formally in a year or so, and pursue a future in that as well as traditional Ju-jitsu. Aikido is basically "The Art of Peace." It utitlizes your opponents movement against himself. Every move is based around the circle, since things can easily flow in that pattern continuously. For example, when an attack is delivered to you, you direct it past you, and pull that attack into the circle, where you now have control over it using the attackers momentum. From here, you may choose to release the attack, simply spinning your opponent away or to the ground. Or you may choose to reverse the momentum against him with your own, creating an impact that would do some decent damage. Once you've come to a high level of proficiency in Aikido, you have the incredible power of choice. What I mean by that is the choice of what happens to your opponent. You can keep him moving until he tires out, or gets fed up falling down, then you can reconcile your differences and no one is hurt. Or, you can fuck him up pretty good. I've always liked Aikido, but have never studied it formally. I figured I would save it for when I was older because I've always been a very aggresive striker.

There is a good relevant quote that says "the warrior chooses a life of peace. All others are condemned to it."

 

[ronin67]

Aikido is a beautiful style. It is one I highly recommend for people who want to get into a formal style. I do feel it is severely lacking as far as practical applications are concerned. It is to dependent on the attacker intiating a specific technique, and then complying with the you. It is also based on attacks that just do not occur in real life (many attacks are based on sword techniques). I found myself constantly thinking "there is no way I would let you do this", even with the more advanced students. That being said, I like the feel of the Aikido school. It is almost like going back in time, and training in a Japanese temple. This is one style that I fully intend to take up, once I get tired of MMA.

 

[ronin67]

Aikido is a beautiful style. It is one I highly recommend for people who want to get into a formal style. I do feel it is severely lacking as far as practical applications are concerned. It is to dependent on the attacker intiating a specific technique, and then complying with the you. It is also based on attacks that just do not occur in real life (many attacks are based on sword techniques). I found myself constantly thinking "there is no way I would let you do this", even with the more advanced students. That being said, I like the feel of the Aikido school. It is almost like going back in time, and training in a Japanese temple. This is one style that I fully intend to take up, once I get tired of MMA.

P.S. Aikido schools are everywhere, so if you do take it up, you will be able to find another school if you move.

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

If you and your wife want to study a martial art as a recreational activity then by all means do Aikido.

However...

If you want even the slightest inkling of combat effectiveness run away from Aikido and fast.

Since you guys are going into this together I think Brazilian Jui-jitsu could be a ton of fun for you both. It would basically involve you and your wife rolling around on the ground with each other putting various chokes and joint locks on one another. It is a tremendous workout and it translates over to the realm or "real" fighting better than most other martial arts. Finding it in Korea could be very tough though.

Judo would also be a respectable choice.

 

[DanielBishop]

So what are some other martial arts which involve wrist/arm/leg-locks.... and chokes and holds and different things like that?

I'd like to research them.

One of my Korean friends once showed me a move.... I don't even know what art it was from, but he told me to throw a punch and before I knew it, I was bent-over, completely off balance and had phenomenal pain shooting up my arm.... I was completely under his control.

I was so impressed.

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

DanielBishop,

You don't just want an art that has locks and chokes in it, but one that also allows you to practice what you learn against resistance. Aikido is practiced like a pro-wrestling match; two people engage in predetermined movements and cooperate with each other.

In arts like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo you practice what you learn competitively versus your other classmates. Since neither of these arts incorporate striking you can pretty much go at it with your fellow pupils at 110 mph.

Go to a BJJ school and then to an aikido school and see for yourself.

 

[DanielBishop]

Yeah, I guess I'll have to just experiment with different classes and see what appeals to us.

I just like the idea of grappling, locks, holds and throws.... even if it won't make me the most rounded fighter or anything, it's not really why we're doing it.

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

I honestly think that if you want a martial art with grappling then you would absolutely become a BJJ addict.

I don't know what it is your are looking for in a martial art, but if you are like me you aren't necessarily interested in the cultural, spiritual, and traditional aspects of martial arts. I and many other people simply want to learn how to fight and defend ourselves without all the quasi-religious baggage included. If you want a no nonsense martial art that is highly effective, fun, competitive, and an unreal workout then give BJJ a try.

 

[DanielBishop]

BJJ sounds pretty much what I'm after.

I just really like the idea of locks and submission holds. I think they're cool, as well as throws and stuff.

Basically we want something fun, which is also a good workout. BJJ is beginning to sound that way, especially if it has good practical applications.

Tell me, what is a good art for defense against weapons? Knives, bottles, bats and sticks etc?

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

DanielBishop,

Some people would say that knife, gun, and weapon disarms are important to know, but then there are also just as many people who believe that most disarming techniques will probably get you killed.

Personally, I think most disarming techniques are crap and will get you sliced, shot, and beat down. BJJ doesn't address much in terms of weapons defense, but it doesn't really need to as it teaches you to control your opponent at all times. If you can control your opponent you can POSSIBLY save yourself from getting sliced just as well or better than any flashy knife disarm.

The bottom line is this...

If your attacker has some skill with a blade or gun, you are going to get hurt no matter what you do. It's best to never put yourself in situations where you are easy prey for such attacks. Knowing your environment and keeping yourself out of overly dangerous situations is also a large part of being a martial artist.

 

[Thaibox]

Some people would say that knife, gun, and weapon disarms are important to know, but then there are also just as many people who believe that most disarming techniques will probably get you killed.

Personally, I think most disarming techniques are crap and will get you sliced, shot, and beat down.

Gotta disagree with you here my friend. I specialized in weapons disarms for quite some time.

I've been with my fiancee for a little over a year now. In that time, from what I've taught her, I can confidently say that if an average person(large male) pulled a gun or knife on her, she(at 5'4" 120 lbs) could take that weapon and shove it up their ass. I've gone through numerous variations of full speed attacks on her(along with 3 different size guys)using red knives and Air Soft pistols, and she has been able to control the weapon and move to incapacitate us with adequate quickness and ease. In later stages of her training she has learned and become accustomed to counters, to her defenses, and can quickly counter those. She makes me smile .

Guns are easy. You just have to understand that they are a linear threat and no more. They also provide an incredible amount of leverage to the defendant's advantage for use in a finite number of wrist, finger, and arm manipulations, breaks, etc. Also, guns almost always give the attacker a false "God complex," providing a strong false sense of security that is definately good for the defender. The shock of losing the object of their invulnerability is considerable for at least enough time to do a consider amount of damage to them. Knives of course are much more complex, and yes your chances of being cut are high, even on a well executed disarm. But, it would be a fair exchange, because you are sacrificing a couple small wounds in order to deliver fatal blows.

But, if you don't practice these disarms in very realistic, high-speed conditions with weapons that are near-real, and pose some sort of threat, you are right, and the practitioner will not learn, and will most likely lose against a weapon.

 

[DanielBishop]

Yeah, I'm well-aware that trying to be macho against a knife or gun is a really bad move. If someone pulled a gun on me and told me to take my pants off and dance around, hey I'd be doing it!! I guess it's just peace-of-mind that I COULD if the situation called for it, at least minimise the damage to myself if someone decided to attack me with a weapon.

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

Thaibox,

After your points I will partially recant what I said. Yes, if you are truly trying to simulate the situation by adding a real sense of danger to your drills via the use of real knifes, sticks, and firearms, then yes, you probably could develope some proficiency in disarming tactics.

The problem that often arises is that very few schools practice this skill enough to be effective and even more teach such shitty principles that they often put their students in even more danger. If I were wanting to learn effective disarming tactics I would seek police or military training versus commercial martial arts training. Call me crazy, but I get the feeling that they put far more emphasis on that skill set than the thousands of McDojo Tae Kwon Do and Aikido teachers do.

And although you may disagree, I believe there are some people who don't fall under the heading of being "average" with a knife. Knife fighting experts, ex-cons with shank experience, and those with some experience in weapon intensive martial arts aren't going to be quite as easy to defend against. It's because of this uncertainty that I often advise people to simply do whatever the attacker wants short of letting them take you somewhere, raping you, or actually attacking you. If he wants your wallet, give it up. Your shoes or jacket? Give them up! Your favorite necklace? GIVE IT UP!

I often trash weapons disarms because most people who teach them are quakes. With that being said, I would advise DanielBishop to find a school without worrying about learning weapons disarms. If he truly wants to become proficient at that skill set he should seek truly capable teachers who's living relies on knowing that skills rather than McDojo instructors who spend 5 to 10 minutes a month addressing "knife defense."

 

[Thaibox]

I don't actually think we're disagreeing here KCC, just miscommunicating a little. You are absolutely right that no "McDojo"(hehe) can offer adequate weapons defense. They will only serve to give a false sense of capability. Weapons disarming is an art within itself, and should be taught as such. Once a weapon is entered into the equation of combat, a whole new world is entered.

The place I learned the most was my vip-protection school which caters to all sects of high speed civilians and L.E.. Finding guys that have 'been there done that' is an absolute must if you want to learn. My Muay Thai instructor was a bodyguard for many years in Asia, and had much practical info to share as well. I have never, ever used any weapons disarms I have learned from traditional dojos, with the exception of some JJ stuff