Tamoxifen for dieting...MS has a rethink

[MS]

Like Cornholio, I've been thinking!

Tamoxifen use in bodybuilding females is controversial to say the least. There are plenty of women that get no noticeable benefit from using it to reduce estrogenic fat deposits, and I can assure you that it is basically useless for this since the butt and thighs, unlike breast tissue, do not have enough of the right receptors or enough of the necessary enzyme to convert tamoxifen to it's most active metabolite

Even worse, many women being treated with tamoxifen for breast cancer experience an INCREASE in fat!!! Bummer.

But I am no longer so quick to dismiss tamoxifen use for certain dieting situations Not only do some competitive female BBs rave about it, but I have also used it with good success. Here's how and why I think this drug should be used, based on recent research into tamoxifen's potent ability to increase leptin levels.

Take your typical overweight postmeopausal breast cancer victim. They already have sky-high leptin levels and their body has basically become leptin resistant. Same goes to a lesser degree for you average (20-25% fat) younger female. Leptin levels are already pretty high, and raising them more (by taking tamoxifen) just makes the whole leptin/insulin resistance go up, making it harder than ever to shed fat. BUT if you take this drug 4-6 weeks out from a competition when you're bodyfat is already well below 15%, your leptin levels have plummeted, and your diet is in danger of stalling on you, you get an instant leptin boost which allows you to diet harder, longer and get leaner than if your leptin levels stayed low. You feel less hunger. It's just a theory, and it would be interesting for some of you women to play around with this drug and share your thoughts too. Just remember you don't want to start the tamoxifen too early. Wait until you've hit the wall in your fat loss and you're already pretty lean. And remember to continue taking the tamoxifen post diet for a while to (hopefully) minimze diet rebound bingeing.

I'm working on another theory involving tamoxifen AND Prozac combined. I'll let you know how that pans out.

 

[NubianBeauty]

Wow!! Thanks MS! Can't wait for your next "thought"

 

[JJFigure]

What kind of dosage are you talking about?

 

[MS]

10-20mg per day is plenty. The health risks associated with running tamoxifen for a short course like we're talking here (6-8 weeks) are minimal.

 

[The Shadow]

I was talking with someone about this about 2 weeks ago


Great post

 

[JJFigure]

I've been reading up on Nolvadex - I may have to give this a try. I'm trying to push the level of leaness for my next comp...

I also noticed you can't use OC when on Nolvadex, but I was planning on dropping OC use 8 weeks out from comp, so that's not a problem.

 

[velvett]

Great post.



..... I want to come back as a man.

 

[MS]

Oh yeah, that reminds me JJ,anyone who tries this should double up on alternative contraceptives because tamoxifen can increase your chances of getting pregnant even though it will paradoxically also dramtically increase chances of birth defects if you DO get pregos.

What's the gossip Corn? Have you got any additional info/thoughts, or second hand experiences with women using this drug for dieting?

 

[Temple]

MS - you mentioned Prozac...can you give us a brief version of what you are thinking. I lose fat when I take prozac but my sex drive also goes south so for me it isn't worth it but I am curious as to what direction you are going with that.

 

[MS]

I'm interested in trialing the Prozac by bringing it in at the start of a contest diet. The reason for this is several fold. Most noteably is that Prozac actually reduces leptin, and there is some evidence that it does this by acting in a manner similar to leptin. This may be part of the reason why obese people are more likely to notice weight loss with Prozac than non-obese folks.......it may rapidly reduce leptin resistance while giving them a signal that their body can recognize as leptin. It is not yet clear to me if tamoxifen will compete with/block this effect or work synergistically with the Prozac, but my suspiscion (given that weight loss from Prozac is usually temporary and short term) is that adding in the tamoxifen as fatloss plateaus will work well. Basically your using the Prozac to shorten the amount of time needed to reduce leptin resistance enough for the tamox to work. Beyond that, you continue using the Prozac as a leptin 'substitute', and also because Prozac may minimize sub-Q fluid retention.

This is all highly theoretical. I have tried the tamoxifen. I haven't tried the Prozac or the combo.