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T3 FAQ: Everything you need to know about T3

BigAndy69

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Disclaimer

T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.

There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at your own risk.

Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side effects?

This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link for anyone who's interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/thyroid/index.html

What about T4?

Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.

Is T3 catabolic?

It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).

Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.

I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!

T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.


Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?

This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don't know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.

T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.


How should I eat on T3?

Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.


What is T3 used for?

Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.

Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?


Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the Testosterone website:

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…

Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.

Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won't make you look like the Michelin Man.)

Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.

A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.

So how do I cycle this stuff?

T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle

Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut you down. There's nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown; I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%!) in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors; the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.

T3:

12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)

37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days

Clen:

30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be adjust accordingly.

Ketotifen:

Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be an option for some people since it can make them extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

Anavar:

Oxandrin;

15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.


Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used between cycles since it doesn't include AS:

BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:

The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.

W1-W4:

T3: 12.5mg ED
Clen: 60-100mcg ED
Ketotifen: 2mg ED
Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)

Carb/Pro/Fat:

20-30/50-60/20

ALA: 1500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED

W5:

T3: 6.25mg ED

L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
ALA: 2500mg ED
Taurine: 3g ED

Carb/Pro/Fat:

50-60/20-30/20

(High Intensity Cardio)

W6:

ALA: 1500mg ED

Carb/Pro/Fat:

40/40/20

(High Intensity Cardio)


BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):

Initial 3 day carb up:

Carbs: 1.75g X BW
Protein: 0.75g X BW
Fat: 0.25g X BW

Supplements:

L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
ALA: 1500mg ED
Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED

Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)

High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20 min 3-4 times a week.

No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of caffeine can be used before cardio.



Anything Else I should know?

T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it should be split through the day.

BigAndy69


References:


N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997 Mar;82(3):765-70 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; De Lany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. [email protected].

Metabolism 1981 Aug;30(8):783-91
Whole body leucine and lysine metabolism studied with [1-13C]leucine and [alpha-15N]lysine: response in healthy young men given excess energy intake.
Motil KJ, Bier DM, Matthews DE, Burke JF, Young VR.

Rubio A, et al. "Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue." Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84
 
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I am currently running a t-3 cycle and plan to continue my cycle of test and winny about 3 to 4 weeks beyond this. I don't understand how this will be detrimental to my gains.
 
GARAGE GORILLA said:
I am currently running a t-3 cycle and plan to continue my cycle of test and winny about 3 to 4 weeks beyond this. I don't understand how this will be detrimental to my gains.

Because you never gave your thyroid a chance to recuperate, to function properly on it's own. It may not be detrimental to your gains, but it's detrimental to your health.


muscle_geek: thank you
 
what about long term low dose???

for example lets say you gp on a three moth starvation diet(10xcals weight) would a three month low dose of 6.5-12.5 mg be bad in anyway post diet?? or would it be better to run that low dose through the diet itself??
 
andy, not sure if you stated this or not, but how much cardio should you do? you stated high intensity cardio, but how much? the more the better im guessing?
 
Re: what about long term low dose???

georgie24 said:
for example lets say you gp on a three moth starvation diet(10xcals weight) would a three month low dose of 6.5-12.5 mg be bad in anyway post diet?? or would it be better to run that low dose through the diet itself??

I don't think you need three months anyway. Natural dieting(without ECA) is very tough for one reason: at one point (for me it's 3-4 weeks) your body stops burning fat because your thyroid production has slowed down considerably; basically your metabolism goes to hell.

That's where low doses of T3 would be great.

No drugs for 3 weeks and follow it by my low dose T3 cycle for 5 weeks.

I don't think the Yohimbine would be a good idea for some people actually; I'm on clen/T3 right now and I'm having trouble breathing. I can't imagine adding another stimulant.
 
Themachine01 said:
andy, not sure if you stated this or not, but how much cardio should you do? you stated high intensity cardio, but how much? the more the better im guessing?

Well yes, the more the better whithin reason. 3-4 times a week is sufficient, but you could do 5 times a week, 15-20 mins.

This is the BEST way to speed up your metabolism naturally and is crucial post cycle.
 
Bigandy, what if after tapering down from my current dose I continue to run t-3 at say 12.5 mcg ed for the remaining month of my cycle? My t-3 cycle and my test/winny cycle would end at the same time but I would end up being on T-3 for a total of 2 months. will that be too long or would that be a better alternative to stopping a month before my cycle is complete?
 
GARAGE GORILLA said:
Bigandy, what if after tapering down from my current dose I continue to run t-3 at say 12.5 mcg ed for the remaining month of my cycle? My t-3 cycle and my test/winny cycle would end at the same time but I would end up being on T-3 for a total of 2 months. will that be too long or would that be a better alternative to stopping a month before my cycle is complete?

You can stay on 12.5mcg for 3 weeks and then down to 6.25mcg for the last week.

Then follow my Post Cycle Therapy, especially in regards to the amount of carbs you consume and High intensity cardio.

Is this your first time with T3? If so you may experience a really bad crash mentally and possibly physically.
 
good info bigandy. what's your email because i have some questions about my cycle which includes t3 coming up in a week. thanks
 
This is my first time on t-3. I am really impressed with the results thus far. What exactly do you mean by a physical crash? I haven't really experienced any sides other than feeling a little lethargic in the begining but I am feeling pretty good now. I haven't noticed any decrease in strength at all but I do look a little flat.
 
When you stop T3, and you've used 25mcg or more, you enter the lovely state of hypothyroidism. Your body stopped producing T3 because you were getting it from an outside source. Your body shut's down. It's similar to a steroid cycle where you need clomid to stimulate test production.

Unfortunately, the only "clomid" we have for T3 is L-tyrosine which is mediocre at best.

You need to follow the Post Cycle Therapy for T3 or you will face a "physical" crash, ie massive FAT gain. You could end up adding more fat than you lost. You are hypothyroidic for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks for normal cycles. You need to adjust your food intake and add High Intensity Cardio.

Mental crash is simply depression associated with low thyroid levels.
 
I'm on t3 right now. I started the first week at 20mcg and cleaned up my diet. At the end of the first week there was some subtle tightening on some parts of my body. I liked it. Now i am in week 2 and have increased the dosage to 40mcg and will propably hold it there till the end and then taper down.

Currently i take in about 2500 cals daily. I keep the protein intake at about 1 gram per pound of body weight. Get the rest of my calories from the "good" fats and whole wheat carbs and some fruit.

My muscles have actually been looking fuller and i feel stronger, this is what i get right now at this dosage. This is why i do not feel like going beyond 40mcg daily. I prefer to take my time for 6 weeks and allow my body more time to do it's thing. And my health is my #1 priority, i could care less about how much muscle i loose, but so far i am loosing none.
 
Also i forgot to add, due to Cytomel's long half life, i will come off the T3 by taking 20mcg EOD which will then average out to 10mcg daily. This i will further reduce to 10mcg EOD for a week.
 
Sounds like a good plan gwl9dta4.

Currently, I'm on 50mcg with Clen.

No steroids, I'm eating about 1.75g of protein per lb of BW and 120-150g of carbs. It looks like I lost some muscle but I'm not too sure. It may be the flat feeling, I'll find out tomorrow after my Back/delt workout.

Are you on steroids, gwl9dta4? You should really up your protein and lower your carbs.
 
BigAndy69 said:
When you stop T3, and you've used 25mcg or more, you enter the lovely state of hypothyroidism. Your body stopped producing T3 because you were getting it from an outside source. Your body shut's down.......You are hypothyroidic for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks for normal cycles.

Big Andy, so assuming you ramped up and already hit your peak dosage and are tapering down, couldn't you run it at 12.5 mg for 2-3 weeks followed by 6.25mg for another 2-3 weeks to almost completly avoid this?
 
BigAndy69 said:
Sounds like a good plan gwl9dta4.

Currently, I'm on 50mcg with Clen.

No steroids, I'm eating about 1.75g of protein per lb of BW and 120-150g of carbs. It looks like I lost some muscle but I'm not too sure. It may be the flat feeling, I'll find out tomorrow after my Back/delt workout.

Are you on steroids, gwl9dta4? You should really up your protein and lower your carbs.

No, no streroids. I keep the protein a little lower because my body does not really like too much protein, i actually strt to bloat in my face when i take too much, i do much better with more fat and carbs. My skin looks and feels very tight when i eat more good fat. I believe that it is the eating of all the good fat that keeps my muscles looking and feeling very full.

Like the original post said, you have to know your body and know mine. Over the years i learned i get MUCH MUCH better gains when i remove some of the protein and replace it with fat. I believe the ultra High protein crap is all marketing and there is no need for that much protein. In Arnolds years all the body builders got as gig as they wanted without any exotic proteins and crazy protein dosages. The only limiting factor was their cycles, it's the pharmacology that has progressed, the nutrition aspect has stayed pretty much the same. Like i said more fat = a more lean, stronger body for me.
 
argent said:


Big Andy, so assuming you ramped up and already hit your peak dosage and are tapering down, couldn't you run it at 12.5 mg for 2-3 weeks followed by 6.25mg for another 2-3 weeks to almost completly avoid this?

I don't think there is a way to avoid hypothyroidism, you can only make a smother transition. I think you have to be completely off T3 for your body to start producing it's own.


GARAGE GORILLA- My pleasure.

gwl9dta4- You're right about the high protein hype, I never eat higher than 1g per lb of bodyweight and I rely on carbs. When I diet, I found that increasing protein intake drastically helps me lean out. Carbs bloat the hell out of me, not protein. We're all different.
 
BigAndy,
I am on week 2 of my cycle and i was going to start T3 at week 5 and end on week 10 which at week 10 I am stopping my EQ and Test but i was going to throw in prop eod at 100mg till week 13 so I could start my clomid soon after that instead of being on nothing for 3 weeks. MY question is from what i am reading should i start the T3 instead at week8 and run it to week 13? Or with what i have planned be ok to go with as long as i keep my diet and cardio in check for that next month and a half or so?? Thanks for the help

Big
 
It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).


This whole paragraph contradicts itself. It's not catabolic but it burns muscle??? You are comparing corticosteroids with T3 in the wrong way. Cortescosteroids are catabolic because that's what they do. T3 is used for something else, but is catabolic. It burns protein and muscle.


Definition of catabolic

This term is often used in reference to the breakdown of muscle. Dieting is catabolic because it causes muscle loss. The word catabolic can, however, be used to refer to any process in which a complex substance is converted into simpler substances. Lipolysis, for example, is a catabolic process because your fat stores are broken down into free fatty acids and glycerol


So, if T3 breaks down protein and muscle it is catabolic.
 
No the difference is whether a substance is catabolic because of it's chemical structure or because of a POSSIBLE secondary effect.

T3 is catabolic because of a possible side effect of too big a calorie deficit. Cortical steroids will directly catabolise muscle mass regardless of calorie intake.
 
el cubano said:
It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).


This whole paragraph contradicts itself. It's not catabolic but it burns muscle??? You are comparing corticosteroids with T3 in the wrong way. Cortescosteroids are catabolic because that's what they do. T3 is used for something else, but is catabolic. It burns protein and muscle.


Definition of catabolic

This term is often used in reference to the breakdown of muscle. Dieting is catabolic because it causes muscle loss. The word catabolic can, however, be used to refer to any process in which a complex substance is converted into simpler substances. Lipolysis, for example, is a catabolic process because your fat stores are broken down into free fatty acids and glycerol


So, if T3 breaks down protein and muscle it is catabolic.

T3 catabolism can be avoided by say, eating 6000 calories. If you ate that many calories you wouldn't lose any muscle or any weight for that matter.

Many people think that if they take T3 they will lose lbs and lbs of muscle but it's simply not true. There's a myth surrounding this drug.

That's why you have guys asking; "Is 750mg of Test enough to stop muscle lose on T3?"

All I'm saying is that it's not that bad and it can be easily avoided.

So technically, you can say it's catabolic, but it's not any more catabolic than a strict diet.
 
gwl9dta4 said:
No the difference is whether a substance is catabolic because of it's chemical structure or because of a POSSIBLE secondary effect.

T3 is catabolic because of a possible side effect of too big a calorie deficit. Cortical steroids will directly catabolise muscle mass regardless of calorie intake.

My point exactly.
 
Big'N Heavy said:
BigAndy,
I am on week 2 of my cycle and i was going to start T3 at week 5 and end on week 10 which at week 10 I am stopping my EQ and Test but i was going to throw in prop eod at 100mg till week 13 so I could start my clomid soon after that instead of being on nothing for 3 weeks. MY question is from what i am reading should i start the T3 instead at week8 and run it to week 13? Or with what i have planned be ok to go with as long as i keep my diet and cardio in check for that next month and a half or so?? Thanks for the help

Big


I don't recommend that people run T3 with steroids that will shut you down because of the potential "double" crash. What you have is fine running it w8-w13 would be better so you can start both post cycle therapy at once.
 
gwl9dta4 said:
No the difference is whether a substance is catabolic because of it's chemical structure or because of a POSSIBLE secondary effect.

T3 is catabolic because of a possible side effect of too big a calorie deficit. Cortical steroids will directly catabolise muscle mass regardless of calorie intake.


That's what I was saying, but you just said it better!LOL.
 
good read bro..just like the Clen...but let me ask you something...i thought clen would loose its properties after the 18 day mark....you say to cycle it with T3 for 30 days?....im running right now a winstrol/clen/t3...havnt started the t3 yet though
 
another thing...your running T3 for what...5-6 weeks? i thought t3 was not supposed to be run for more than 5 weeks?...Huckster gave me a t3 cycle to run and it looked like this:

1111222233334444333322221111 which the Numbers represent the number of tabs/day, and it was for a total of 28 days...why would this be more effective/less effective than your example cycle of t3...
 
what about guggulsterones?

hi andy and all other vets,

what are your thoughts on using guggulsterones (metabolic thyrolean, guggulbolic,...) either instead of t3 or after a t3 cycle to accelerate the normalization of the bodys own t3 production?

do you think it might help?

cheers
 
str8cubano said:
another thing...your running T3 for what...5-6 weeks? i thought t3 was not supposed to be run for more than 5 weeks?...Huckster gave me a t3 cycle to run and it looked like this:

1111222233334444333322221111 which the Numbers represent the number of tabs/day, and it was for a total of 28 days...why would this be more effective/less effective than your example cycle of t3...

You ask 10 people how to cycle T3 and you will most likely get 10 different answers.

If you look at my cycle closely, you'll notice that the supressive doses(25mcg +) are only used for 35 days (5 weeks).


Btw, I dont beleive in the "blitz" T3 cycles. I think it's better to take your time and allow your thyroid to adjust. It will minimize the crash.

From all the medical files I've read, I came to the conclusion that a 5 day ramp is the strict minimum, not 4 days.
 
str8cubano said:
good read bro..just like the Clen...but let me ask you something...i thought clen would loose its properties after the 18 day mark....you say to cycle it with T3 for 30 days?....im running right now a winstrol/clen/t3...havnt started the t3 yet though

Ketotifen is included in the cycle which "cleans" receptors. It's the stuff in superclen. You basically can use clen for longer periods of time.

Also, clen loses it's anti-catabolic properties after roughly 18 days, not it's effectiveness. So you can use it for 3 weeks without Keto for fat loss, or rotate between Nyc and clen, making sure clen is used with the higher doses of your T3 cycle.

Btw, speaking of the Clenbuterol FAQ, some people have told me that its disappeared; I did a serach and I can't find it? :confused:
 
Re: what about guggulsterones?

leviatan said:
hi andy and all other vets,

what are your thoughts on using guggulsterones (metabolic thyrolean, guggulbolic,...) either instead of t3 or after a t3 cycle to accelerate the normalization of the bodys own t3 production?

do you think it might help?

cheers

I would recommend that you don't use any supplements that directly affect thyroid function after a T3 cycle. Your body has to start producing it's own.
 
guggulsterones

and what about te claims that guggulsterones are said to be able to keep metabolism pretty much going even on a diet - for sure they are not as potent as t3 but have you made experiences on using guggul without t3 during calorie restricting?

thank you
 
Re: guggulsterones

leviatan said:
and what about te claims that guggulsterones are said to be able to keep metabolism pretty much going even on a diet - for sure they are not as potent as t3 but have you made experiences on using guggul without t3 during calorie restricting?

thank you

No I don't have any experience with this supplement and I will never use it. For me it's a T3 "prohormone", many side effects and minimum results. I can guarantee you that it suppresses your natural thyroid production.

In my opinion, if your going to mess with your thyroid or test levels you should go all the way.
 
what about low dose for longer periods

Has anyone used a lower dose, 6.25-12.5mcg's/day for extended periods, let's say months. Mainly as a metoblic optimizer so to speak. I've been on 12.5mcg's for 14 days, have my bloodwork done tomorrow so hopefully I'll know how 12.5mcg/day is effecting my own thyroid. anybody ever use this theory?
 
Right on Big Andy. I am putting T3 in my cycle as we speak and that was a hell of a good post. Almost anything u needed to know is all there. Again Right ON buddy!!!!
 
Andy question on T-3 dosage

I am taking GH and I am taking 12.5mcg in the am and 12.5mcg in the evening, I will now start taking them on an empty stomach, I was told to do the full 25mcg per day as I am on GH. but from what I read in your post, I take it that it would be safer to just take the 12.5mcg per day I have been on it for 9 days now. Also taking NYC and doing a lot of cardio and dieting clean, I did notice the look of loosing muscle mass and being flat but after I carbed up this whole weekend i noticed that I actually looked bigger and I was told that in the Gym yesterday. I am also planning to add some anavar at about 10-15mg per day through the remainder of the cycle. I plan to only run the T-3 until I finish the GH which may be another 5 to 6 weeks, now I am asking if I should keep the dose the same or if I should decrease it to just 12.5mcg per day. I would rather go with what is safer and have the least side effects when I come off of the GH and T-3. or will tapering it down in the last few weeks prevent the crash?
 
BigAndy69 said:


Ketotifen is included in the cycle which "cleans" receptors. It's the stuff in superclen. You basically can use clen for longer periods of time.

Also, clen loses it's anti-catabolic properties after roughly 18 days, not it's effectiveness. So you can use it for 3 weeks without Keto for fat loss, or rotate between Nyc and clen, making sure clen is used with the higher doses of your T3 cycle.

Btw, speaking of the Clenbuterol FAQ, some people have told me that its disappeared; I did a serach and I can't find it? :confused:
OK..does regular clen include Ketotifen? and if not, would i need to supplement with it in order to stay on clen for longer periods of time?

And one more thing...the T3 i have is from Unifarma....it is 50mcg. or it sais 50ug...whatever that means...from last time i checked it was 50mcg.. HOw the heck would i split that up into a small dose? or should i just split it in half and go with 25mcg in the morning?
 
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inciteful....

...whats up Andy! Good work out today, my back is feeling pumped, those chins were something else...
Regarding this thread, i am extremely impressed with the research you have done... i think this will help clear the air regarding T3 and effective usage.
p.s. those 100 lbs dumbell rows were sick!
b.A.
 
BigAndy69 said:

Btw, speaking of the Clenbuterol FAQ, some people have told me that its disappeared; I did a serach and I can't find it? :confused:

It was moved to the "best of" board, which is only accessible to platinum members.

If you don't have an extra copy, I could copy the thread and send it to you. Let me know.

EngiCream
 
Re: Andy question on T-3 dosage

tury said:
I am taking GH and I am taking 12.5mcg in the am and 12.5mcg in the evening, I will now start taking them on an empty stomach, I was told to do the full 25mcg per day as I am on GH. but from what I read in your post, I take it that it would be safer to just take the 12.5mcg per day I have been on it for 9 days now. Also taking NYC and doing a lot of cardio and dieting clean, I did notice the look of loosing muscle mass and being flat but after I carbed up this whole weekend i noticed that I actually looked bigger and I was told that in the Gym yesterday. I am also planning to add some anavar at about 10-15mg per day through the remainder of the cycle. I plan to only run the T-3 until I finish the GH which may be another 5 to 6 weeks, now I am asking if I should keep the dose the same or if I should decrease it to just 12.5mcg per day. I would rather go with what is safer and have the least side effects when I come off of the GH and T-3. or will tapering it down in the last few weeks prevent the crash?


I don't know a whole lot about GH, but I do beleive that you need to use a full replacement dose of T3. Again, this is just something I read. I would advise you to follow through with your plan and slowly taper down the last couple of weeks: 12.5-6.25. Follow my post cycle therapy and you should be good to go.

Str8: You can split your tabs into four(12.5mcg per 4). Because of T3's long halflife you can take 1/4 Tab EOD which is 6.25mg a day. You can still follow the cycle.

And no, regular clen does not include Ketotifen, only super clen(which I think is dangerous). If you can't find this drugs you can still rotate the clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with NYC. I hate ECA with T3, it gave me severe limp dick. You can also use the clen 3 weeks straight.
 
Re: inciteful....

bigAragorn said:
...whats up Andy! Good work out today, my back is feeling pumped, those chins were something else...
Regarding this thread, i am extremely impressed with the research you have done... i think this will help clear the air regarding T3 and effective usage.
p.s. those 100 lbs dumbell rows were sick!
b.A.

Glad to see you've made it to the board, Kyle! And those 100 lb db rows fell like 150 lbers when you're on T3, 120g of cabs and 2300 cals!
 
EngiCream said:


It was moved to the "best of" board, which is only accessible to platinum members.

If you don't have an extra copy, I could copy the thread and send it to you. Let me know.

EngiCream

Thanks, but I write these articles on Word. I just wanted to edit it and add something to the post. Funny how I have to pay to access my own post! LOL.
 
Great Info BA.........
About the crash can eca be introduced at the end of a t-3 cycle to help minamize the crash effects ?
 
Promet1 said:
Great Info BA.........
About the crash can eca be introduced at the end of a t-3 cycle to help minamize the crash effects ?

NO. In the short run it may help, but in reality you are just delaying the inevitable crash.

Ephedrine is a drug that boosts your metabolism. So basically you are still "on" something. You need to boost your metabolism naturally, and the best way is to switch to a higher carb intake(as outlined in the post), and High intensity cardio.
 
Good post-I have a question for ya-I have been a competitive BB for a while now, so yes I know my own body-I usually only use T3 precontest-would it benifit me to take it with my fina and cyp just to help keep BF lower or is that a waste??
 
Sorry I am still confused about one thing. If I take 6.25-12.5mcg's/day for 4 to 5 weeks will I still have the crash when I stop?

Thanks,

NXUS12
 
g-dogg, it's not really a waste if you use it but I wouldn't recommend it. I would recommend T3 at 12.5mcg to run with your cycle. Your body will be able to use food more efficiently and it helps to keep the BF off and give your muscles a full feeling.

NXUS12@ELITE; You will not experience a true "crash" (hypothyroisdism) but you may feel a little slugish coming off similar to coming off a longer ECA cycle. No real need to carb up, just switch your ratios around for a week or two and add some high intensity cardio.
 
BigAndy69 - Thanks Bro for the reply I thinnk that I will try that. I just noticed your in T.O. as well. Is it just me or does it feel like winter just started right around the first day of spring :-)
 
BigAndy69 said:
Disclaimer



12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)

37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days

[

andy, one question..how come you go from 37.5 to 75, instead of going to 50, and then 75mcg?
 
Re: Re: T3 FAQ: Everything you need to know about T3

str8cubano said:


andy, one question..how come you go from 37.5 to 75, instead of going to 50, and then 75mcg?


Originally, I had it planned like this: 25mcg for 5 days, 37.5mcg for 5 days ---

25mcg is a complete waste of time, I learned that the hard way. You don't really need to ramp up all that much, the ramp up starting with 12.5mcg-37.5mcg-75mcg is perfect from my experience. I want to get up to my max dose as quickly and as safely as possible.
 
Re: Re: Re: T3 FAQ: Everything you need to know about T3

BigAndy69 said:



Originally, I had it planned like this: 25mcg for 5 days, 37.5mcg for 5 days ---

25mcg is a complete waste of time, I learned that the hard way. You don't really need to ramp up all that much, the ramp up starting with 12.5mcg-37.5mcg-75mcg is perfect from my experience. I want to get up to my max dose as quickly and as safely as possible.

thanks for info bro..im really excited to start...im a week into my winstrol, and already did 2 weeks of clen, now starting clen again tommroow with the t3 continuing with winstrol...
 
big andy, so far i have done 111122223333444444, in terms of t3 use, the pills i have used are 25mcgs, how would u recommend i finish it out, how many more days should i do 4? and how should i finish it out?? thanks :)

also, im on 4.5ius gh a day, 4ccs of t400 a week, and 3ccs of QV eq
 
BigAndy69 , i just picked up my T3 last night. What are your thoughts on whether I should run it at 12.5 for wks1-4 and then drop it to 6.25, or should I try it like this:

Day 1-3: 25mcg
Day 4-8: 50mcg
Day 9-14: 75mcg
Day 15-30: 100mcg
Day 31-35: 75mcg
Day 36-39: 50mcg
Day 40-42: 25mcg

Your thoughts? thanks

Im trying to drop some BF while taking it as easy as I can on the old thyroid. Im currently on wk5 of 500mg/wk of omnas. 5'11 225lbs, at around 15%BF.
 
Themachine01 said:
BigAndy69 , i just picked up my T3 last night. What are your thoughts on whether I should run it at 12.5 for wks1-4 and then drop it to 6.25, or should I try it like this:

Day 1-3: 25mcg
Day 4-8: 50mcg
Day 9-14: 75mcg
Day 15-30: 100mcg
Day 31-35: 75mcg
Day 36-39: 50mcg
Day 40-42: 25mcg

Your thoughts? thanks

Im trying to drop some BF while taking it as easy as I can on the old thyroid. Im currently on wk5 of 500mg/wk of omnas. 5'11 225lbs, at around 15%BF.

This is an example of a really bad T3 cycle.

Chose between both cycles presented in the post. Which one you should chose is up to your goals. If you insist on going up to 100mcg, you can do it for 5 days in the middle of the 75mcg dose of my cycle.
 
JoNaThAnPeTeRs said:
big andy, so far i have done 111122223333444444, in terms of t3 use, the pills i have used are 25mcgs, how would u recommend i finish it out, how many more days should i do 4? and how should i finish it out?? thanks :)

also, im on 4.5ius gh a day, 4ccs of t400 a week, and 3ccs of QV eq

In your case, this is how you should finish: 333332222211111.5.5.5.5.5.25.25.25.25.25
 
If i can avoid going up to 100mcg than I will. My goal is drop some decent BF while taking it as easy as I can on my thyroid. I was thinking of just running with the 12.5 for 5-6 wks. I read how you went 12.5 for wks 1-4 and then 6.25 for wk5. would this provide decent fat loss while on 500mg/wk omnas?
 
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Themachine01 said:
If i can avoid going up to 100mcg than I will. My goal is drop some decent BF while taking it as easy as I can on my thyroid. I was thinking of just running with the 12.5 for 5-6 wks. I read how you went 12.5 for wks 1-4 and then 6.25 for wk5. would this provide decent fat loss while on 500mg/wk omnas?

Only if you diet properly, 12.5mcg is a virtually side effect free dose, but it's no where near as strong as suppressive doses.(It's stronger than 25mcg actually and possibly as strong as 37.5mcg)

With clen/T3 at 12.5mcg you will notice a good amount of Fat loss but you need to diet and possibly do cardio. You can extended past 4 weeks, that's not a problem.
 
I have a good diet and cardio 4 days/wk at about 20 - 25 mins. Im just worried that with 12.5 i might be wasting my money and possibly results. I was thinking of taking half of my 50mcg tabs in the morning with my arimidex. also, do you chew them up?
 
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big andy,
do you think 12.5 mcg t3 a day is really of any use?
and howcan 12.5 be stronger than 25 mcg? because it doesnt inhibit natural t3, whweras 25mcg do?

so do you think its possible to use 12,5 mcg for, say 8 weeks without suppressing natural t3?
 
leviatan said:
big andy,
do you think 12.5 mcg t3 a day is really of any use?
and howcan 12.5 be stronger than 25 mcg? because it doesnt inhibit natural t3, whweras 25mcg do?

so do you think its possible to use 12,5 mcg for, say 8 weeks without suppressing natural t3?

Of course you will be suppressing your natural Thyroid output, but there's a huge difference between suppression and complete shutdown. Suppression is not such a big deal.

25mcg did not boost my metabolism, it replaced it. (this is from experience) At 12.5mcg, my body was still producing T3 so the overall concentration was higher than a full replacement dose(25mcg) where my body's T3 production is zero.
 
Themachine01 said:
I have a good diet and cardio 4 days/wk at about 20 - 25 mins. Im just worried that with 12.5 i might be wasting my money and possibly results. I was thinking of taking half of my 50mcg tabs in the morning with my arimidex. also, do you chew them up?


It's a matter of how much you are willing to compromise your thyroid function. For anyone who is unsure, I recommend 12.5mcg doses. It boosts your metabolism helping you burn fat.

T3 is a VETERAN drug, this is not something you simply do after researching it for a few hours. You'll notice from my post how much thought and research I put into my T3 use and I'm not a slow learner. I recommend that most of you stay away from T3. I still see so much misuse of this drug on the boards.

Why would you need to chew them up?

Not every tab has to be chewed Chinese style.
 
Ive done a lot of research on T3 and im a little sketchy about messing with my thyroid. I just dont want to waste it by doing 12.5 and not getting any results at all. I guess what Im gonna do is go with the 12.5 for 4-5 weeks and if im not seeing any results after 7 days, i will bump it up.
 
Considering how cheap T3 is I doubt running 12.5mcg for 8 weeks would be throwing money away. I don't have personal experience with T3 yet but I'm guessing a 12.5mcg dose is still far more potent in overall metabolism boosting effects than any over the counter fat burning drug. Sad part is T3 is cheaper than most of them.

Bigandy this is probably a subjective question, but would you have a guess at how much the 12.5mcg dose boosts your metabolism in %? Are we talking mild like 10-15% or possibly up to 25%? I will be starting my T3(along with l-dex and lipoderm) next week and will be running 12.5mcg for 6-8 weeks. Then I will probably go 6.25 on the 9th week and then 6.25 EOD on the 10th week to try and make the "crash" as mild as possible. I've been dieting for about 8 weeks already and haven't dropped calories yet, and since I'm adding T3 I'm not going to drop them in the near future either. Was just curious how many more calories my body may burn from the 12.5mcg dosage incase I need to actually up my calories a bit. I don't my deficit to be too much with the T3.
 
EXPERIENCING THE FLAT LOOK

I have been on T-3 for almost 2 weeks and I have experienced that flat look that you get with the T-3(I have been doing the Atkins with very low carbs the last 3 weeks). I am not on AAS, just NYC,GH and T-3, I am leaning up definately burning off the fat and people are really noticing it. But I do look flat almost as if my muscles look a little smaller but definately more defined, just not hard and chiseled, but when I carbed up the whole weekend (fri. night -sun. night) on Monday I was doing arms and my arms were totally full and all of my body had that hard look. I had people tell me that I was getting bigger and I just laughed, cause I told them that in actuallity I had lost 8lbs. I never realized that going from carb depletion to carbbing up will give you such a full look, almost overnight, now I know why they do this pre-contest. Also I just read Hucks post on Arimidex, I have some extra Arimidex laying around so I think I am going to throw that in the mix, and I am going to start some Anavar as I don't want to loose too much muscle.
 
Vageta said:
Considering how cheap T3 is I doubt running 12.5mcg for 8 weeks would be throwing money away. I don't have personal experience with T3 yet but I'm guessing a 12.5mcg dose is still far more potent in overall metabolism boosting effects than any over the counter fat burning drug. Sad part is T3 is cheaper than most of them.

Bigandy this is probably a subjective question, but would you have a guess at how much the 12.5mcg dose boosts your metabolism in %? Are we talking mild like 10-15% or possibly up to 25%? I will be starting my T3(along with l-dex and lipoderm) next week and will be running 12.5mcg for 6-8 weeks. Then I will probably go 6.25 on the 9th week and then 6.25 EOD on the 10th week to try and make the "crash" as mild as possible. I've been dieting for about 8 weeks already and haven't dropped calories yet, and since I'm adding T3 I'm not going to drop them in the near future either. Was just curious how many more calories my body may burn from the 12.5mcg dosage incase I need to actually up my calories a bit. I don't my deficit to be too much with the T3.

I really don't think you need to worry, Vageta. You don't really need to up you calories drastically. I'm really unsure about the number, but I seriously doubt it's 25%. I know that clen is about 10% so I would say around roughly that number. But the real use for T3 at that dose is increased protein synthesis. Your body is using food much more efficiently. I was going to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because my body was processing food so much faster. My muscles were fuller and harder.

So you basically make better use of your food, and you really don't need to worry about increasing your calories.

Also, higher doses DO NOT increase protein synthesis. I have a study listed in my references that concluded that 50mcg did not increase protein synthesis(which suprised the researchers).
 
BA, I started last night. I have 50mcg tabs and it was a real bitch trying to get quarters out of them. So im figuring that each 1/4 tab I have made is anywhere between 11 and 13.5mcgs. I'll be doing this for 5 days and then upping it to 25mcg, half a tab and see how my body reacts to that.
 
Hey this is a great post. I've been trying to figure out the right way to use T3 -- there is SO much conflicting info. I had a couple more questions??

Any specific recommendations for females and any substitutes for the clen?? Something legal and not detectable?? Clen made me shake so bad, I looked like a drug addict--I can't play that off plus I get randomed all the time.

Was thinking about running 4wks at 12.5--do you need the other stuff with this sort of cycle?? What about using phosphorus supplements afterwards--not sure if applicable heard they keep thyroid levels from dropping during low cal dieting???? Also, what about using prohormones--Androsol is a spray so I can use in lower doses. How long could you run low dose and how long would you need to cycle off?? Any thoughts???
 
pryncess said:
Hey this is a great post. I've been trying to figure out the right way to use T3 -- there is SO much conflicting info. I had a couple more questions??

Any specific recommendations for females and any substitutes for the clen?? Something legal and not detectable?? Clen made me shake so bad, I looked like a drug addict--I can't play that off plus I get randomed all the time.

Was thinking about running 4wks at 12.5--do you need the other stuff with this sort of cycle?? What about using phosphorus supplements afterwards--not sure if applicable heard they keep thyroid levels from dropping during low cal dieting???? Also, what about using prohormones--Androsol is a spray so I can use in lower doses. How long could you run low dose and how long would you need to cycle off?? Any thoughts???


As far as prohormones I have no clue.

I put a friend of mine on 10mg of winny and 50mcg of clen and she is seeing tremendous results.

Women should be careful with T3(and Hormone drugs in general), the female hormone system is much more sensitive than a man's

As far as a T3 cycle, 12.5mcg of a high quality T3 like JPI Jones cytomel for a few weeks should suffice.

A combo of T3 and Yohimbine HCL would be killer for women.
 
I didn't read the entire thread, but here goes.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT T3:

If you take it, without there being a medical need for it, you're a fucking moron.
No offence Big Andy, but you're basing your opinion on an artcle from T--Mag??? Holy shit bro, you're better off reading the horoscope in TV Guide for more accurate information.

Don't do it folks. They'll be lots of people who swear they have no problems, but then...
 
Question for you Nelson, I respect everyones opinion but i see a lot of times you post that how people do stuff is totally wrong but where is your data to back these claims up?? A lot of the stuff people do on these boards is done out of experimenting; some things people do is SAFER(and when i say safer i mean looking out for there body and mind because these are chemicals) way of trying stuff while with others it totally is not. My problem is I see you post how this and that is bad and you should do this and that but I dont see any scientific back up to your claims nor most of the advice you are giving and i will say it other people do it too and most of the things you and other discuss is medical in nature, so do you have a medical degree or have scientific info to back up what you say or are u blowing steam out your ass. I read your background on your webpage, and for the most part seems to me you have done a bit of drugs but have been natural so I assume you have absolutely no life experience with these types of chemicals, so where does your info come from? I dont mean to get on your case but you always seem to think you are in the right and everyone else on these boards are complete idiots with the things they do so a bit more explaining where you are coming from might help more people out. Also by no means do i say the medical community is always right either because there is close minded people in the field but the reality of things are these substances people use effect the body and to me from what i know from you, you have no experience with and must be getting it from somewhere else. If i am wrong about you i apoligize but it is hard being associated with this type of backround to hear someone say their opinion and not give a reason. If you can clear anything up would help a lot for me and maybe some others

Big
 
Okay, fair enough Big.

Being a journalist in the field I'm in close constant contact with all sorts of people in the medical field. Obviously, I know a lot of docs on roids and the understanding is unanimous that the public perception is misconcieved. But talk to almost any doctor, especially an endo, and they will tell you, that the thyroid is a very delicate gland and the use of T3 can cause irreperable damage.

Just because someone can use it and recover, doesn't mean damage hasnt been done.

I'm particularly familiar with hypothyroidism, because I have it. No, it isn't from T3 (although my experimenting with clen and ephedra probably didn't help). It was from a breakdown of the arenal system caused by severe stress and trauma. I didn't believe that was possible. What's especially relevant is that the trauma occured 2 years prior to the thyroid malfuction. That goes to show you that not only is the thyroid hypersensitive, it can breakdown from just the slightest stress from a previous experience.

What makes the use of T3 so idiotic for bodybuilders is that it's a huge gamble for a very small payoff. You can't possibly keep the fat off once you go off the drug. The thyroid will be suppressed causing a possbible INCREASE if fat. I mean, it's just so stupid!

I'm not going to mention any names but I personally know of one bodybuilder and a fitness model who overused levothyroxin to stay cut for photo session and now, they're on it for life.

Call me crazy or old fashioned, but I believe the bodybuilding lifestle is based on health. The fact that people are even disputing the potential dangers is a sad commentary in itself.

I realize there will always be fools who are going to do whatever they want, so my statements are for those who are perhaps younger and more impressionable. Anyone who says T3 "isn't that bad" is terribly mistaken and anyone who takes it for a temporary cosmetic fix is a fucking moron. It's your call.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I didn't read the entire thread, but here goes.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT T3:

If you take it, without there being a medical need for it, you're a fucking moron.
No offence Big Andy, but you're basing your opinion on an artcle from T--Mag??? Holy shit bro, you're better off reading the horoscope in TV Guide for more accurate information.

Don't do it folks. They'll be lots of people who swear they have no problems, but then...

LOL, T-mag? Yes, Bruce Kneller did find one of those studies for me but all I did was give him credit.

When I'm about to put something in my body I research for months...PubMed, Medline, Library books, personnal experiences, everything I can get my hands on.

Nelson, I do agree that T3 use is not a good idea, and to tell you the truth I regret using it. But People are going to use it no matter what, you may as well provide the best info you can.

I don't think that T3 at 6.25-12.5mcg is a dangerous dose, and I would use that amount again but never 25mcg and up.
 
Nelson Montana said:


Being a journalist in the field I'm in close constant contact with all sorts of people in the medical field.

Is this the same medical community that has been telling me for years that steroids are bad for me and don't even work?

To say anyone that uses t3 is a fucking moron just seems to be short sighted. It is a risk vs. reward. You need to decide if the potential risk associated with its use is worth the results you will see. By your logic I could say anyone who has liposuction is a moron. People have died because of complications experience from lipo surgery. Does that mean it is unsafe for everybody. No, I don't beleive so.

BTW, I have never used T3. (I didn't want you to think I was a fucking moron)
 
chronic: if you read 2 sentences past what you quoted of me you would have answered your own question. But I guess it's easier to take things out of context and react to it than to formulate an intelligent opinion.
I also see where you're trying to go with the lipo , but it isnt analogous. If you're referring to the surgery I had, there hasn't been a single death attributed to it. The ratio of complications from lipo is about one in every ten thousand and in those cases it's because too much work was being done at one time, the patient had heath problems or the doctor wasn't board certified for cosmetic surgery. Comparing an outpatient procedure by a qualfied physician to the indiscriminate and unmonitored use of a dangerous drug for TEMPORARY weight loss, is pretty ridiculous. It sounds like you just have a beef with me and are trying to make point, but you didn't do it very well.
Why are you defending T3 use?
 
I am not defending t3 use Nelson. What I am saying is that because someone chooses to use t3 does not classify them a "fucking moron".

I don't have a beef with you Nelson. I have read many of you posts and have found quite a few of them to be quite insightful.
You seem to make a pretty strong point about t3 and your reasoning is "because thats what doctors say."
 
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