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sustanon dosage?
- Thread starter slipanot
- Start date
krishna
New member
I used it once a week for 10 weeks on my first cycle and I gained 28 pounds with little sides. If you shoot more than once a week you'll build up the long range ester leaving you with high doses toward the end of your cycle, and a much bigger risk of sides. You won't get better results either because your levels will be all over the place.
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krishna said:
I'm sorry but that's not correct.
Weekly dosing is not the way the product was designed. People should read the Organon pamphlet. There is a copy located here: http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/displaydoc.asp?documentid=5202
Sustanon 100 is designed for dosage every 2 weeks
Sustanon 250 is designed for dosage every 3 weeks
They arrived at the optimal layering of esters in each product to provide constant blood levels at the specified dosage interval. In the case of Sustanon 250, 3 weeks. It's meant to be a supperior (more constant, longer lasting) testosterone product for replacement therapy. Meaning not designed for building muscle on a 1 week injection interval which incidentally does not mitigate the effect of compounding long esters and building blood concentrations for the first few weeks of a cycle administered as such.
With more frequent injections (i.e. anything less than the 3 week design) you get instability due to the short esters. A mg to mg comparison doesn't tell the whole story because the ester weights for the long esters are significantly higher (i.e. in the same 1mg dose you get more testosterone from a short/light ester than a longer/heavier one). This further skews the product's testosterone composition to the shorter ester range than a simple mg to mg comparison would indicate. You can get an idea of this on the pamphlet where under the ester breakdown for Sustanon 250 it provides "equivalent to 176mg of testosterone" - I imagine the weights of the esters make up the remaining 74mg. Roughly 30% of the total product by weight.
All that said, plenty of people grow well on weekly dosages. 2x per week is probably a little better. If you are taking 750mg, why not do every couple days like prop and nix it. As to how much effect this has upon gains or sides, it's never been studied so no one can say.
I just have a pet peave about people saying it was designed for weekly injection intervals when the whole idea of hormone replacement is to make therapy as convenient as possible and the general public widely favors fewer injections.
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krishna
New member
Madcow2 said:
So you're saying that since it was designed to be taked every 2-3 WEEKS, that twice a week would be better than once a week? You posted a good thread, but what's your reasoning for this? If it's meant to be taken at longer intervals, once a week would be closer to its designed use then twice a week. If you're using this as a reason to use twice a week then your not making much sense. Say a cow food company said to feed the cows once every two days. Other people suggest to do it once a day (which you can similate to what I'm saying), but then you say no the manufacturer says once every two days so I'm gonna do it twice a day. Doesn't make much sense logically.
It's a matter of constant blood levels. The product is designed for consistency over 3 weeks - basically the short esters begin first and then are supplemented by the longer esters further out for a consistency in blood levels. Each ester has a separate halflife and this is how they backed into the ratios of the esters when they designed the product.
By injecting more frequently - even though 1x per week is closer to the specified 1x per 3 weeks - you now get into the issue of the long esters layering on each other and building concentration. In addition, the short esters spike periodically upon injection rather than raising the baseline and then dropping off as the longer esters begin to release as there is already very significant concentration with more frequent dosing.
The absolute best way to illustrate this is on a chart. Adjust each of the mg content for ester weight so you get actual testosterone, then knock it down by 50% at a given ester's halflife, just make some linear assumption for scaling it down in between. It would be really beneficial to deal with the release and build up of each ester also rather than assume that the whole 100mg of test dec is available on day 1 of each injection because that just isn't the case. Anyway, sum it all accross and you get your blood levels for each day of your cycle. Repeat this for a few different dosage intervals. Create a chart and take a look at how they compare. I assume this is basically how they designed the product in the first place - just solving for levels based on a single long-term injection
To be honest, a few people have made some charts but I have never once seen anyone adjust for ester weight or nor for the release of each ester so I've seen nothing truly valid one way or another (and to be honest, you should assume that all of them are being very kind and mitigating the issue of the spike rather that depicting what's reall going on as these are fairly material and have a dampening effect if not adjusted for). If someone provided me ester weight for each ester and then a good assumption about release and rising blood concentrations for each ester I'd be happy to make the chart and put it to rest. That said, I want verified data that I can confirm - no opinions or speculations, I value my time too much to put bullshit like that in there. I've made this offer before but no one has yet ever gotten me the data I require.
By injecting more frequently - even though 1x per week is closer to the specified 1x per 3 weeks - you now get into the issue of the long esters layering on each other and building concentration. In addition, the short esters spike periodically upon injection rather than raising the baseline and then dropping off as the longer esters begin to release as there is already very significant concentration with more frequent dosing.
The absolute best way to illustrate this is on a chart. Adjust each of the mg content for ester weight so you get actual testosterone, then knock it down by 50% at a given ester's halflife, just make some linear assumption for scaling it down in between. It would be really beneficial to deal with the release and build up of each ester also rather than assume that the whole 100mg of test dec is available on day 1 of each injection because that just isn't the case. Anyway, sum it all accross and you get your blood levels for each day of your cycle. Repeat this for a few different dosage intervals. Create a chart and take a look at how they compare. I assume this is basically how they designed the product in the first place - just solving for levels based on a single long-term injection
To be honest, a few people have made some charts but I have never once seen anyone adjust for ester weight or nor for the release of each ester so I've seen nothing truly valid one way or another (and to be honest, you should assume that all of them are being very kind and mitigating the issue of the spike rather that depicting what's reall going on as these are fairly material and have a dampening effect if not adjusted for). If someone provided me ester weight for each ester and then a good assumption about release and rising blood concentrations for each ester I'd be happy to make the chart and put it to rest. That said, I want verified data that I can confirm - no opinions or speculations, I value my time too much to put bullshit like that in there. I've made this offer before but no one has yet ever gotten me the data I require.
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LVTitan
New member
a chart doesn't always relate to real world results. i did a sust cycle of 500mg/week.
i shot 250mg 2x week and i had no problems. it worked just fine and i made good gains. was this the ABSOLUTE BEST WAY TO TAKE IT ? who knows for sure, but it gave me the results i wanted. i'll take real world results over some geeks chart any day.
i shot 250mg 2x week and i had no problems. it worked just fine and i made good gains. was this the ABSOLUTE BEST WAY TO TAKE IT ? who knows for sure, but it gave me the results i wanted. i'll take real world results over some geeks chart any day.
LVTitan said:
I said exactly that in post #14, second paragraph from the bottom.
You don't need a chart to understand what's going on if you understand esters, halflives and how they layer on each other for a given injection frequency. I don't think the other poster (and most people here) has a good handle on this so I suggested a chart.
The main issue issue was that I believe both of you thought Sustanon was designed and optimized for a weekly injection schedule and that simply isn't true and this is where you get into this issue because BBers don't use the product as it was intended and this creates the uneven blood levels. Shoot 1cc every 3 weeks and you are golden but no one really wants to do that.
People spend all day tweaking everything about their diet, workout, drug intake to the nth degree. This question comes up all the time and there is always erroneous information posted on it. It would be nice to put it to rest once and for all but what is really required is a well done clean chart to illustrate it for the people that don't understand all of this - probably useful to solve the dbol dosing thing too since people claim their real world results taking it 1x per day even with a very short halflife are just as good as breaking it up. I have no use for such charts. Obviously neither do you. But, this crap keeps coming up and there is always a bunch of false information on it so I see no way of stopping it otherwise.
All the scientific jargon aside, do your shots Mon and Thur, or once a week its not going to make any noticable difference...........
Madcow2 said:
I'll just quote myself so it's clear. No one has this answer and I have not seen the calcs properly done that would show exactly what the fluctuation is. I have also not seen anyone establish how good/bad a given level of non-constant blood levels are and how that impacts gains. Common sense says that more even levels are better but there is also a point of diminishing returns. It you are injecting 2x per week, that probably deals with a big portion of it, 3x a bit more, 4x might not be worth the incremental hassle.
Shit, people are still growing from taking a single dose of dbol a day rather than spreading it out (running dbol alone). That's got to be far far worse than deciding between 2-3 injections per week of sust (yes, I've done the dbol math for people as it's easy - just search my posts here).
EDIT: of course a really easy answer is to just use a single ester and sidestep all this crap.
