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Suppinated vs Pronated grip for rows
- Thread starter JDid23
- Start date
well yeah supinated puts the biceps in a stronger position, just like doing curl grip chins as opposed to wide overhand chins. But the supinated grip rows is said to incorperate more of the lower lats where as the wider overhand grip to use more upper lats. Im not sure about when other back muscles such as traps, rhomboids, teres major, teres minor etc are used more though.
Dorian Yates favoured underhand grip stuff more because I think his theory was that the bi's are the weakest link of the pulling muscles so why not put them in a position where they can be strongest so as not to limit the poundage even further. He had one of the best backs the world has seen...
Dorian Yates favoured underhand grip stuff more because I think his theory was that the bi's are the weakest link of the pulling muscles so why not put them in a position where they can be strongest so as not to limit the poundage even further. He had one of the best backs the world has seen...
musketeer
New member
This is inaccurate.
You are ignoring the fact that the curl grip places the LATS in a stronger mechanical position. Try this: hang for a chinup in both the supinated and pronated the stretch in you lats in increased when the hands are in the curl grip position.
The main difference of the Yates row to say a textbook bart-over-barbell row is the angle of the torso to the floor. The spine is angled at 60-70 degrees as opposed to say just above parallel to the floor. The upright stance allows for two mechanical advantages: all four sections of the trapezius (lower and upper) are involved as the bar is also moved upwards by a strong shrugging of the the shoulders, both up and back. ALSO as important is the fact that the action of the lats is shortened considerably. The bar is raised to the same hight hitting the lower abs, and the elbows are drawn back just as far, but there is less elbow flexion required to move the bar from the start to the finish. Essentially, the bottom third of the row involving drawing the elbows back is eliminated.
When bending the arm at the elbow, with the hand pronated or neutral, the brachialis is recruited move heavily during arm flexion and the biceps becomes a synergist rather than a prime mover. This actually makes the arm stronger at flexing than when a curl grip is being used, because you can use all three muscle s. Think - you can hammer curl more than you can curl fully supinated.
In the Yates row, the extra biceps is actually a disadvantage and the one real flaw with the exercise. This is evident in Dorian's bicep tear, which happened 2 months before the 94 Olympia, dictating that he must use an overhand grip going forward. I saw no decrease in Dorian's amazing back throughout his Mr O reign.
Dorian Yates Biceps Tear Photo. - BodybuildingPro.com Discussion Boards
Easy does it: training biceps smarter, not harder, is the ticket to success - Ask Dorian | Flex | Find Articles at BNET
I know soreness isnt the best indicator, but how come when I do curl grip chins I get a bicep pump and some forearm (brachioradialis) soreness the next day but my back is fine. When I do wide overhand chins (even though I only go mouth to the bar) my lats are sore as fuck the following days and when I could do more than 10 reps in my first set I used to finish with an awesome lat pump...
The lats may be in a stronger pulling position but my guess is its harder for "normal" people as opposed to pro bodybuilders to force the lats to do more of the work than the arms when the arms are fully supinated which contracts the bicep as this is the bicep's secondary function. Is this wrong?
When I mensioned yates I wasnt saying his yates rows were done underhand, I was talking about his curl grip pulldowns which he did and I remember reading somewere that he said about putting the biceps in the strongest position, but that would have been wrong when I read it...
I agree though that the yates row lets you use more poundage due to the extra involvement of the traps and the shortened ROM
musketeer
New member
This is for the reasons I outlined above - your biceps are somewhat isolated when you are supinating. That's why I think that curl grip chins are one of the best biceps exercises - a great range of motion and a compound exercise.
Are you getting the same reps for both grip styles?
Are you dropping to a full hang then going chest to bar on both styles?
Its hard to tell as before when I was managing 11 or 12 reps of wide chins I weighed 15+lbs less than I do now. And so now when I do curl grip chins Im only managing 8 reps at a time or less and yet I still got a pump even though my sets went 8,6,5,5,4, but the pump was in my arms not lats and I think my negatives may have been slower than when I did the wide chins.
No I wasnt going chest to bar on both, with the wide grip I go mouth to bar and with the curl grip I go chin to bar.
I dont really understand what you are saying, you just said curl grip chins are one of the best bi exercises, but before you said bi's and forearms are strongest and do most of the work when using the overhand grip. Have I read something wrong here?
musketeer
New member
In terms of bending the elbow, your body does it best when you are using a neutral grip. The brachiallis is the true prime mover involved in elbow flexion. When you have a palms-up grip, you are not able to use your brachiallis which makes the biceps do all of the work - I didn't metion foreams. As biceps are more heavily involved in bending the arm when fully supinated, therefore, curl grip exercises are best for training the biceps because the offer a degree of isolation, however, the flexors of the arm are STRONGEST when in neutral position.
You don't deadlift with a curl grip because it puts too much direct stress on the biceps. Same with rowing in a boat, starting a lawnmower or carrying shit.
At the end of the day, it's just sacks of meat and fluid connected to bones at certain points.
You don't deadlift with a curl grip because it puts too much direct stress on the biceps. Same with rowing in a boat, starting a lawnmower or carrying shit.
At the end of the day, it's just sacks of meat and fluid connected to bones at certain points.
So which bit of my original post was inaccurate?
