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Summer Cutting Advice

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goaltender28

New member
Ok a bit about me, im 26yrs old, been lifting for 5 yrs now. Im 150lbs, roughly 15% bf, 5'8. This will be my third cycle. On hand I have 2x lufsen test 250, 1x lufsen winny tabs, 2x 5000iu hcg and 1x proviron. Right now my diet is clean as im working with a nutritionist, im taking in roughly 4200 cals a day. What id like to know is what you guys think of this cycle and what the best way to run it would be. I have a goal date of Sept 10 to put on as much weight as possible while keeping a lean hard look. My thoughts on the cycle were as follows
Wk 1-10: .75cc test every 3rd day
Wk 7-12: 50mg winny ed
Wk 12- finished: 500iu hcg ed
Wk 12- finished: proviron 2x ed

Let me know some thoughts please.
Thanks
 
how is your new diet /vs your old diet? are you getting results now naturally? just need to know because with stats like "150lbs, roughly 15% bf, 5'8." after 2 cycles something is not right.
 
i weighed more than this after the first two cycles, i was up around 160 some, starting from about 120. Ive been on this new program for about 7 weeks now, after the first week I dropped 12lbs weight, but it was determined as fat as I had grown inches in my chest, legs, arms, and shoulders. Over the past little bit I've, dropped a touch more weight and then managed to gain some back to get myself to 150. My old diet was alot of food designed for bulking, this diet now is more refined and tailored to me for gaining mass but quality lean mass.
 
i sure did, i know its not advised but i couldn't pack on very many lbs doing it natural and i was eating a fair amount, and clean, i just needed that extra boost to push my weight and it helped. Ive been able to maintain the weight but id like also put some more on.
 
You really think you need to do a cutting cycle when you only way 150?

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well id like to stay lean and gain weight, and I understand that you can keep most bloat and water retention down with spot on diet as well as minimum 4L of water a day, but while I will be doing both id like the added bonus of the winny to help reduce the water and give me the more dry, vascular look.
 
Diet and and cardio.... your size... tweak that diet and you will cut (lean bulk) whatever you want to call it. I'm finishing PCT now and thats what I'm doing (cutting) trying to get from 11-12%bf to 10... plenty of good supps out there to "cut" without complicating it with juice, food being the most important... I know noone wants to be patient anymore and just wants to take a bunch of compounds and see results but I promos you'll be much better off waiting and getting you BF right and learning what foods/diet and cardio/hiit, training methods work then when you do a cycle you'll be amazed.
 
strentrainin said:
Diet and and cardio.... your size... tweak that diet and you will cut (lean bulk) whatever you want to call it. I'm finishing PCT now and thats what I'm doing (cutting) trying to get from 11-12%bf to 10... plenty of good supps out there to "cut" without complicating it with juice, food being the most important... I know noone wants to be patient anymore and just wants to take a bunch of compounds and see results but I promos you'll be much better off waiting and getting you BF right and learning what foods/diet and cardio/hiit, training methods work then when you do a cycle you'll be amazed.
Click to expand...

i agree... i can't ever get mad at someone for wanting to improve their body because i constantly am looking for improvements, but the methods at which we want to do it is just off...

you should not be cycling until fully ready and my friend, you are not at that weight... NOONE is going to buy it that you can't gain more weight naturally, because you can... at only 150 lbs., come on bro... seriously... your diet has obviously been flawed... if you get it right, you can put on at least 15 more lbs. without any sort of aas... you should only take aas when you have peaked, and it takes years and years to finally peak... people get stuck for a few months and think they have peaked... thats not how it works...
 
Its funny because give it a year and if i dont have 10lbs packed on then youll be telling me the exact same advice, id like advice tailored to my specific situation not just generic thoughts. When I was bulking I was working with an amateur builder who provided me with a diet, now ive gone steps further and tried looking at the scientific reasoning behind it and am working with a nutritionist. What will you tell me next? Both of them dont have any idea what there doing?
 
goaltender28 said:
Its funny because give it a year and if i dont have 10lbs packed on then youll be telling me the exact same advice, id like advice tailored to my specific situation not just generic thoughts. When I was bulking I was working with an amateur builder who provided me with a diet, now ive gone steps further and tried looking at the scientific reasoning behind it and am working with a nutritionist. What will you tell me next? Both of them dont have any idea what there doing?
Click to expand...

bro im not going to give you BAD FUCKING ADVICE and tell you to run a cycle because thats what it would be, bad... thats the lazy way out of your question... if you want other methods to help you gain weight, sure, there's things out there that can help you gain weight... There is NO REASON you can't get up to at least 165 without any sort of cycle... I am a fucking nutritionist, certified in that and as a personal trainer, so I know averages, i know diets and i know what people can get to on their own with proper dieting and instruction... You want to get an attitude about shit, then noone is going to even try to help you though, i can tell you that much right now... i always make time for EVERYONE but the SECOND someone flips attitude when they don't hear what they want, im out man... i don't need that shit... if you want help, pm me and i'll be glad to try to help you out...
 
you're mistaken if you think you're getting bad advice bro.

Dylan knows what he's talking about, is a nutrionist himself, and Id bet my salary he's in twice the shape as your trainer.

He's giving you free advice and you're not even considering the fact that you might be wrong...

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bigbassturd said:
you're mistaken if you think you're getting bad advice bro.

Dylan knows what he's talking about, is a nutrionist himself, and Id bet my salary he's in twice the shape as your trainer.

He's giving you free advice and you're not even considering the fact that you might be wrong...

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Click to expand...

^^^ this x2...copping an attitude with the wrong bro, take advice or leave it...up to you, but my bro knows what he is talking about.

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muscleaddiction said:
^^^ this x2...copping an attitude with the wrong bro, take advice or leave it...up to you, but my bro knows what he is talking about.

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MA, idk what it is lately with these 140 pounders coming on the board and asking for advice, then getting all pissed and telling us we don't know what we're talking about when we don't tell them to take a gram of test and tren per week and keep eating pizza.

It just flat out doesn't work like that. If it did, you'd go to a mall and see every guy there walking around busting out of their shirts ripped as hell.

It's 80% diet, 15% training and dedication (for years), and 5% gear (after peaking)

Always has been, always will be. Until they invent some miracle substance that you can take that makes you look like Jay Cutler while sitting on the couch eating potato chips.

And frankly, I wouldn't want that anyway. This is my lifestyle and I love it! Everything about it. Blood sweat and tears bro!

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bigbassturd said:
MA, idk what it is lately with these 140 pounders coming on the board and asking for advice, then getting all pissed and telling us we don't know what we're talking about when we don't tell them to take a gram of test and tren per week and keep eating pizza.

It just flat out doesn't work like that. If it did, you'd go to a mall and see every guy there walking around busting out of their shirts ripped as hell.

It's 80% diet, 15% training and dedication (for years), and 5% gear (after peaking)

Always has been, always will be. Until they invent some miracle substance that you can take that makes you look like Jay Cutler while sitting on the couch eating potato chips.

And frankly, I wouldn't want that anyway. This is my lifestyle and I love it! Everything about it. Blood sweat and tears bro!

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Click to expand...

Very articulate my brother...couldn't have said it any better myself. The easy way, looking for the short cut to boost their insecurities maybe? Entitlement comes to my mind with this generation of kids, want it all now! Also, their work ethic is shit...they don't want to put in the blood, sweat, and tears...add the occasional vomit from training hard, and this is what has to be done on cycle...period! That and even at times force feeding yourself to get your calories in, but hey they only hear what they want to hear, and there is no respect to the older guys like us because shoot bro, we don't know what we are talking about...they want to hear it from the inexperienced kid their same age telling them to go for it bro, that will be a sick ass cycle and you will be 200 lbs in no time! Anyway, he will probably chime back in here, read what we wrote and continue with his little attitude and say something stupid and that will be it.

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Spot on bro. It get me sometimes how someone as knowledgable as Dylan, yourself, OWL, RickRock, and many of my good bros here can offer advice that you'd have to pay good money for elsewhere, and the people asking for the advice don't hear what they want to and assume everyone else is wrong.

It's almost a slap in the face, these bros LOVE this lifestyle so much they are willing to take time out of their day to help some complete stranger, and the stranger says fk off.


And I will say this concerning a "summer cutting cycle"

You do NOT need aas to cut. Point blank period.

Nothing cuts you up like cardio and diet, that's just how simple it is!

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bigbassturd said:
Spot on bro. It get me sometimes how someone as knowledgable as Dylan, yourself, OWL, RickRock, and many of my good bros here can offer advice that you'd have to pay good money for elsewhere, and the people asking for the advice don't hear what they want to and assume everyone else is wrong.

It's almost a slap in the face, these bros LOVE this lifestyle so much they are willing to take time out of their day to help some complete stranger, and the stranger says fk off.


And I will say this concerning a "summer cutting cycle"

You do NOT need aas to cut. Point blank period.

Nothing cuts you up like cardio and diet, that's just how simple it is!

Sent from my Droid using EliteFitness
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Absolutely! But that is too hard of work for these kids...they don't want to eat healthy, make their own food, plan the next days workout and meals, oh and do some basic arithmetics to figure out their macros...too much work for them bro!

This is our lifestyle, if they don't want to listen then see ya!!!

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You're up to 3 cycles and smaller than me and Im completely natural. 5'11 175 10% bf.

Should say something to you
 
MA and BB... love you guys... and i always appreciate what you have to say and think about me... two fucking great stand up guys right there and are just flat out awesome!

I hate to ever sound like a dick but fuck man, I went to school, got my certifications and have given my life for this... I get paid up to 100 hour to train people and you don't even want to know what people pay me to write diet plans so it pisses me off to no fucking end when there is a lack of appreciation for free advice... what keeps me going is the guys out there that appreciate it so much and utilize it and listen...

do you know how many times i've heard answer i don't want to fucking hear... like everyday man! but you know what i have always done, listen, learn, utilize and succeed... none of us know everything... fuck, i learn something new everyday... why? because i know i don't know everything and i know there is always something someone knows that i don't... there's some serious knowledge on this board and to have the opportunity to learn here is fucking priceless... i spent years and years reading books, listening to lectures, blah blah blah, but first hand experience and learning from guys that have been through shit is the most valuable info... a book is based on averages and quite honestly, assumption that we all react a certain way, but when you see first hand what its like to accomodate and design for specific needs, you realize just how different we all are and how each situation is different... what i want and try to do is help each individual to their specific need... you will never ever always hear exactly what you want to hear, but what will allow you to succeed is to take what you learn and utilize it to the best of your ability...
 
read my bulker in my signature, listen to the vets on here like dylan and the other guys who know their stuff. lose the attitude please sir.

put down the needle and learn how to eat big and lift big.

starting to juice at 120 was the dumbest mistake you could of made, steroids prevent you from reaching your genetic potential, they do not help you reach it. thats a fact sir.

yes you are a shorter dude and i understand cause I am only 5 6. but i busted my ass for years and years 15 years to be exact to build muscle mass. and i tried many different strategies and diets during that time. been there and done that. you don't need steroids at 150 pounds and you surely didn't need them at 120. unless you have some physical disability preventing you to workout properly or you have HIV then there is NO EXCUSE. there are guys on this forum with torn ligaments and rotator cuff problems who still bust their ass in the weight room and push through those injuries. so you need to think about that and walk into the gym from now on with a new attitude. standing in front of the mirror curling 30 pound weights isn't gonna get you big. you need to hit the weight room HARDER. squats, deadlifts, bench press, dips, pullups, rows. these are compound lifts that build the body from head to toe. if you want a good lifting program then again in my signature i have a 3 day split.. follow that to a tee, you can incorporate 5X5's into that or do your own program. see the weightlifing section.
 
I think enough has been said...so now OP, you have Dylan, BB, Steve, and Rick...all vets, all very knowledgeable and giving you solid advice...what are you going to take away from this thread?

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bigbassturd said:
Id bet my salary he's in twice the shape as your trainer.
Click to expand...

Doubt It, and I also dont appreciate your attitude your proving nothing to me other than your inability to read my original post.



muscleaddiction said:
The easy way, looking for the short cut to boost their insecurities maybe? Entitlement comes to my mind with this generation of kids, want it all now! Also, their work ethic is shit...they don't want to put in the blood, sweat, and tears...add the occasional vomit from training hard, and this is what has to be done on cycle...period! That and even at times force feeding yourself to get your calories in
Click to expand...

I sat at the table many of times for an hour or more to finish a meal so dont give me that shit about forcing yourself to eat cause ive done it. The steroids dont put magic muscle on, you still have to work hard and even harder post cycle to keep the weight on. So insinuating I havent put in the hard work is crap. Im entitled to everything just as much as you, so id appreciate next time you give me a response post you treat me with the same respect youd want.



RickRock13 said:
Moral of the story....

Stay away from steroids and get in the kitchen and lift like you've got a pair!!
Click to expand...

As stated above im there, ive been there, my diet or training isnt what im asking for your ADVICE.



For everyone whos going to continue to comment, I appreciate the advice but I didnt ask for it regaurding my diet or training program, hence the nutritionist. I have a goal date in mind and would like to supplement my training and dieting with AAS. What I will take from this thread is not to be honest with you guys because you hear what you want. If you think thats saying FK you then I guess it is. For anyone willing to put there ego, and apparent entitlements over me aside, id be more than willing to forward you my training and dieting program for your knowledge and so you know everyone is not a complete idiot.
 
Artigo said:
You're up to 3 cycles and smaller than me and Im completely natural. 5'11 175 10% bf.

Should say something to you
Click to expand...

Alot is to be said for genestics. Just for fun though, running your stats 5"11 @ 175lbs through an ideal body weight calc.

Your ideal weight range is 182 - 200.2 lbs. (82.7 - 91 kg.).
You are underweight. Go figure


Then putting my stats in and running it.

Ideal weight range is 148 - 162.8 lbs. (67.3 - 74 kg.).
Contratulations! Your weight is ideal! Go figure
 
Well...nobody is going to comment or assist you with your current attitude...and I am not going to deal with a 26 year old kid telling me to show you respect when you started giving attitude to one of the most selfless & knowledgeable brothers here, as soon as we suggested to take the safe and natural route you get all defensive, and what do you think you are going to accomplish by quoting us and bashing us? Funny thing is the group of brothers here who have tried helping you are serious veterans to this forum, and if you want to continue with your self righteous attitude then this thread will go bye bye, locked and timed out...your choice son. You will not get any intelligent advice from anybody here...and I am being as respectful as I can be to some kid with his own ego flaring.

Anybody else Dylan, Steve, BB, or Rick have a few words for this kid?

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Because "YOU" sit on the computer and act like a god to "KIDS" doesnt mean your a god. I still dont appreciate your attitude. As I said I appreciate all the advice given but I wont be talked to like a 5yr old and be told to do the things that I am already doing.
 
Bro, the ego has gotta go, or you aren't getting shit from anyone here. I support your decisions to follow a healthy lifestyle and pursue bodybuilding, as it is my serious lifelong passion and if you do a bit of reading here you'll see I'm always one of the first to welcome new members and tell them I'm here for advice and support.

But when you start acting as if we owe you a thanks for gracing this forum with your very presence, you're out of line.

The bros in this very thread sacrifice sleep, time with family, and time spent doing things they enjoy to offer up advice to people who need it such as yourself.

We don't owe you SHIT, so for us to go out of our way to help you for free and you to shove it back in our faces says a lot about your character.

That being said, you can PM me when you are ready to be serious about your personal health and being dedicated to this lifestyle, but until then, find a protein drink and keep thinking you know it all.

150lbs and you wanna call someone fucking underweight? I was your size in fucking highschool...

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I wouldnt pm you cause your a joker lol. My attitude reflects your stupidity, im only a reaction to your actions. I started the thread on a good note, got responses, and asked for advice on my situation, not something else. If that doesnt make sense then go drink your protein drink and figure it out. Man tool bags like you give AAS a bad name. Shut this thread down, ban me blah blah blah. Ill find somewhere else to get the info I need. Seeing how im not owed anything I guess your not owed respect from me....
 
Wow where is all the hostility from? You came on here and asked for advise. Some very smart members gave you great answers. If your choosing to ignore them..... that's your fault.

I don't know you and I wish you the best luck. But from the begging of this thread I said there was a problem with your weight.

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I just read some of your other posts and you like giving attitude to many on this forum, in one post you were asking about PCT advice midway through a cycle, and everytime people asked you about your diet you attacked them, and even back then the advice given to you then was to eat more...talk about only hearing what you want to hear, you have disrespected many on this forum already, and you just keep on doing it...why don't you go find yourself another forum with this much knowledge, and best of luck growing up!

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Hopefully we all can learn something here. First of all this is not new...on this forum and in life almost everyone hears what they want to. Another thing I have noticed is people will start their posts trying to help amd explain but end it calling this guy a kid and then basically make fun of his weight of 150. Human nature means this is going nowhere....he is going to be defensive. We offer free advice and to some people its only worth what they paid for it. If he diesnt want to listen thats cool. He isnt the first or the last. My adive to you sir is to live life and good luck. You have recieved some sound advice. I hope you can take something from it no matter how little it is.

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goaltender28 said:
Its funny because give it a year and if i dont have 10lbs packed on then youll be telling me the exact same advice, id like advice tailored to my specific situation not just generic thoughts. When I was bulking I was working with an amateur builder who provided me with a diet, now ive gone steps further and tried looking at the scientific reasoning behind it and am working with a nutritionist. What will you tell me next? Both of them dont have any idea what there doing?
Click to expand...

Keep on mouthing off to the wrong fucking ppl and ull be gone!

Change ur attitude bro quick ur 150!!! Ur a twig! I weighed 142 in junior high!

Dylan for one knows what hes talking about and should be charging u for advice!
 
muscleaddiction said:
I just read some of your other posts and you like giving attitude to many on this forum, in one post you were asking about PCT advice midway through a cycle, and everytime people asked you about your diet you attacked them, and even back then the advice given to you then was to eat more...talk about only hearing what you want to hear, you have disrespected many on this forum already, and you just keep on doing it...why don't you go find yourself another forum with this much knowledge, and best of luck growing up!

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Click to expand...

+1 we dont need punks on this thread
 
i would like to tell you how i really feel but that would probably be immature and ive really tried to move past that kind of behavior so ill put it as best i can...

you have taken shots at guys like rick, muscleaddiction and bb... guys that dont have years of experience but DECADES of it... none of us are going to give you AAS advice because we wouldnt be helping you by doing that... see we try to help... not tell people what they want to hear but the reality... you can say whatever you want about your "nutritionist" or whatever but they obviously arent doing their job if your not getting what you paid for... and yeah ive had clients that were more difficult to help than others but ive always figured out something... your not in any position to take steroids... i dont give a fuck what you say or excuse you come up with... your not... if you want to run them anyway and need help, go to a board where the members dont give a fuck about people and their well being and get all the shitty help you want... at this point, with your attitude and the way youve treated truly respected guys, noone cares what the fuck you do... everyone just wanted to help you... nothing less than that... so good luck to you but me personally, im a loyal guy and when you disrespect my friends you disrespect me as well... so like i said good luck to you but your not getting anything else from anyone here

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy
 
Whats with people holy haha, therippedreverend, the punks are people like you my friend. I have no problem taking advice. Advice that relates to the actual question I asked. I have good reason to be defensive when you call me names, attack my weight without any knowledge of my background, and criticize my diet/training regime without even knowing what it is. Take your verbal diarrhea somewhere else please.
 
People are not attacking your weight bro; they are trying to help you understand that you have plenty potential to put on size without steroid use.

What are the other cycles that you have run? What were your stats before and after those?

And just post your diet on here so we can double-check your claim that it is in order.
 
Maybe this will help you understand things.

Some people ask me stuff like what did I take and what did I do to get this big.
I reply it's not just about what I took, another very important aspect is WHEN I took it.

I did my first show at 19. At the time I was all natural, didn't even use any kind of supplements. My offseason weight at the time was over 200lbs and competition weight was about 190. Again, this was all without any drugs or supplements used, just pure dedication, passion, gallons of sweat in the gym and a good diet of solid foods. I was bigger at the time than most of the guys here with cycle history.

When I did my first cycle at 20 it was 500mg's of test E per week, no AI's , no PCT, no supplements or anything else. I gained over 30lbs and retained about 20. I felt like I was superman.

And this is why I laugh at skinny guys trying to shape up for summer with several pre-contest drugs stacked at a time ... What will you take then when you get to 200lbs? Double the dosages? Triple them perhaps?
I'm willing to bet you're one of the majority of guys who are "half-assing" at the gym, probably poor diet aswell (most of them think that it's "on spot" of course, but never tell what it actually looks like or when they do they lie to you and themselves) ... and then they try to make up for this lazyness with drugs. Wrong, wrong, wrong .....
Bodybuilding used to be about dedication, passion and hard work. Steroids are a tool that can help you when you have optimised everything else. They're not a shortcut to results. Now it seems like people think they need steroids for any kind of results (which they lack because of the reasons mentioned above) which is so wrong.. I don't have anything against you bro at 150lbs, thats all cool, but you can shape up for the summer without drugs, trust me. And yes I think too that you shouldn't be cutting at 150lbs lol. Don't be another abs bro. people should realise someday that having 6 pack abs is not what gets you laid.
 
anon for your asking heres my diet...

Meal 1- 1.75 scoop myofusion, 1.5 cups oatmeal
Meal 2- 1.5 cups cottage cheese, 1.5 cups kashi go lean
Meal 3- 6oz chicken, 1 cup b rice, 1 cup green pepper, 1/2 cup onion
Meal 4- 6oz shrimp, 1 cup b rice, 1 cup mushroom, 1/2 cup oinion
Meal 5- 6oz x-lean ground beef, 1 cup b rice, 1/2 cup green pepper, 1/2 cup mushroom, 1/2 cup oinion
Snacking between meals(if needed)- 1/2 to 1 Full cucumber with 3 tbsp max dressing
During workout- 20g isolate protein, 10g glutamine, 20g dextrose
After workout- 60g isolate protein, 20g glutamine, 80g dextrose

Roughly 4200 cals
 
Insanity I get that now can you please help me understand something. No attitude intended and correct me if im wrong, but on the bases of me lifting hard as well as heavy until closer till my goal date. Does it not make sense to try and put on as much weight as possible and then change diet accordingly to give myself that lean hardened look im going for?
 
And thats another reason im getting defensive, I put a compound list up and no one asked my game plan they assumed I was doing it a certain way without completely knowing.
 
goaltender28 said:
Ok a bit about me, im 26yrs old, been lifting for 5 yrs now. Im 150lbs, roughly 15% bf, 5'8. This will be my third cycle. On hand I have 2x lufsen test 250, 1x lufsen winny tabs, 2x 5000iu hcg and 1x proviron. Right now my diet is clean as im working with a nutritionist, im taking in roughly 4200 cals a day. What id like to know is what you guys think of this cycle and what the best way to run it would be. I have a goal date of Sept 10 to put on as much weight as possible while keeping a lean hard look. My thoughts on the cycle were as follows
Wk 1-10: .75cc test every 3rd day
Wk 7-12: 50mg winny ed
Wk 12- finished: 500iu hcg ed
Wk 12- finished: proviron 2x ed

Let me know some thoughts please.
Thanks
Click to expand...

WHY are you using steroids? Goaltender28 are you a soccer player?

To lose fat up the cardio & lower the calories-it's that simple

YOU do not need AAS.
 
goaltender28 said:
Insanity I get that now can you please help me understand something. No attitude intended and correct me if im wrong, but on the bases of me lifting hard as well as heavy until closer till my goal date. Does it not make sense to try and put on as much weight as possible and then change diet accordingly to give myself that lean hardened look im going for?
Click to expand...

Of course it does not make sense.

If you try to "put up as much weight as possible" it will be mostly fat. You will get fat and then try cutting it out which will result in failure because you will lose most if not all of the muscle gained in the process aswell. So no.

And like said above, you don't need any AAS, you need to lower calories if you want a "lean hardened look". At 150lbs and 15% you're probably just skinny fat. Your stats could aswell apply to most people who never lifted in their life. So please, think again.

If you want a lean look you should first diet down a little and then start putting on quality weight. Like I said before, there are no shortcuts.
 
So your telling me at that calorie intake and eating clean I will gain mostly fat, and not quality muscle? If you truly believe this then what calorie range are you suggesting I be in? And you intake that many calories while bulking, is that on or off gear?
 
If I missed it sorry but a big question I don't feel that has been addressed is what your training program is looking like. At 4200 calories a day to cut and having issues with weight it makes me think you could be over training. I'm 6'6" and 230-235lbs and consume 3200-3500 calories to cut and UNHCR a pretty quick metabolism and do my fasted morning cardio and it's a decent program for me and that's about 80lbs heavier. I do know, from personal experience, that if you are over training even with a higher calorie diet you are going to have issues.

Can you post up what your training split is looking like with how many reps and sets you are doing? This might be the key to your issue.
 
goaltender28 said:
So your telling me at that calorie intake and eating clean I will gain mostly fat, and not quality muscle? If you truly believe this then what calorie range are you suggesting I be in? And you intake that many calories while bulking, is that on or off gear?
Click to expand...

eating clean does not have anything to with anything. It's calories in vs. calories out.

4200 calories per day at your weight is like what a marathon runner would need lol.
I've seen guys about your stats gain weight easily at 2500kcal per day.
 
5 day split, weekends off

mon/wed/fri

squats- 3rx4s- your body weight x1.5
bench- 3rx4s- 95% intensity
incline- 3rx3s- 95% intensity
hang cleans- 3rx4s- 95% intensity
press jerks- 3rx3s- 95% intensity
pull downs- 3rx2s- 95% intensity
pull ups- 12rx3s- body weight + 10lbs
leg extension- 20rx2s- body weight
leg curls- 20rx2s- body weight
dips- failurex2s- body weight + 10lbs(if possible)
pushdowns- 20rx2s
bb curls- 20rx2s



tues/thurs

2x 20yds kneees tuck jumps
2x 20yds bounding
2x 20yds butt kicks
2x two in two out on agility ladder
2x lateral sprints five steps

sprints- 2x 40yds 80%
2x 40yds 100%
2x 60yds 100%
2x 80yds 100%
 
goaltender28 said:
5 day split, weekends off

mon/wed/fri

squats- 3rx4s- your body weight x1.5
bench- 3rx4s- 95% intensity
incline- 3rx3s- 95% intensity
hang cleans- 3rx4s- 95% intensity
press jerks- 3rx3s- 95% intensity
pull downs- 3rx2s- 95% intensity
pull ups- 12rx3s- body weight + 10lbs
leg extension- 20rx2s- body weight
leg curls- 20rx2s- body weight
dips- failurex2s- body weight + 10lbs(if possible)
pushdowns- 20rx2s
bb curls- 20rx2s



tues/thurs

2x 20yds kneees tuck jumps
2x 20yds bounding
2x 20yds butt kicks
2x two in two out on agility ladder
2x lateral sprints five steps

sprints- 2x 40yds 80%
2x 40yds 100%
2x 60yds 100%
2x 80yds 100%
Click to expand...

I think you are overworking your muscles, which is going to result in catabolism, so even though your working your muscles a lot and eating a lot, your body is going to be using muscle mass for a source of energy and the calories you are ingesting are helping to keep your muscles in a stable state and the other calories, although may be good, are going to end up getting stored as fat.

You may want to look into a more traditional split setup and if your goal is to cut there are certain things you can do between sets (like jumping rope for 30 seconds to a minute) that will really help take the fat off. Add in some fasted cardio in the am and/or a hiit style training after your workout or at some point during the day will help (cardio 2x a day may seem excessive but will make a good dent in any fat you are trying to lose). By making these few changes you should see a good change in your body composition. Your weight should do up and your bf should go down.

Now you can do the typical split with:
Mon - chest
Tues - back
Wed - legs
Thurs - shoulders
Fri - arms
Weekends off.

Or you can mix it up a bit, just make sure that you are giving your push muscles around 48+ hours before working them again (I.e. if you do chest on Monday you shouldnt do shoulders until Thursday earliest because you are using delts as a secondary muscle group when doing chest). for larger muscle groups like back or chest you can do up to around 16 total sets, legs up to 20 and smaller groups like arms or shoulders around 12-14.

Give some of these changes a go and see how you do. You can still do your sprints as your cardio, my friend does them a lot (former football player) and swears by it and def helps keep lean.

Let me know what you think, but it definitely seems like you are over training.
 
Ill give those things a whirl, I especially like the jump rope in between sets. Ill tweak the worksouts and repost and you can tell me what you think
 
Monday - Quads / Hamstrings reps per set 20 -15 -10-8-6
lunges – 4 sets
Squats wide - 4 sets
Leg Press narrow- Full Range! – 4 sets
Stiff Leg Dead Lifts- 4 sets
Lying Hamstring Curls – 2 warm ups and 1 giant drop set minimum 7 drops 2 plates each time



tue- Back/ reps per set 20 -15 -10 -8 -6
wide chins – 5 sets
seated v handle row– 4 sets
db rows – 4 sets
close pulldowns – 4 sets
deadlifts-4 sets



wed- Delts /reps per set 20 -15 -10 -8 -6
Lateral raises seated – 4 sets
Standing bb overgead Press – 5 sets
Upright Rows – 4 sets
Rear Delt Flies – 4 sets
6 sets shrugs 3 bb 3 db



thur - Biceps / reps per set -20 -15 -10 -8 -6
Triceps / reps per set - 20 -15 -10 -8 -6
Alternate Dumbbell Curls – 4 sets
Preacher Curls – 4 sets
One hand hammer curls cable -4 sets
One hand Push Downs – 4 sets
Cable kick backs – 4 sets
Skull crushers decline with cambered bar – 4 sets



Friday- chest / plyos/ – reps per set 20 -15 -10 -8 -6

Incline fly – 5 sets
Incline Bench db – 4 sets
Flat bench – 4 sets
Box jumps 5/5
Squat hops 5/5
Split lunges 5/5
 
I would shift Friday to Tuesday and bump everything down a day. Doing chest after tris and your not going to be able to give chest 100%. Also pull back 1 set off each exercise as you are really pushing the limits with the volume mostly because you are doing some high rep work so just to make sure you are not over using the muscle just pull one set off each exercise and you should be good. Remember with muses like bis and tris they are really getting worked twice a week anyway from chest and back day so you really need to watch the volume.
 
Sounds good.
 
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