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steroids don't affect me anymore??

1/2man1/2god

New member
i am genuinely looking for help guys...
i am never coming off for personal reasons . i have been on juice for a couple years already .

i have run every compound possible so far and i am starting to notice that i don't even feel like i am on steroids anymore. i mean i grow pretty well but i would not say " steroid - fast" and i don't know what i need to do to keep gaining..

i have ran really high doses of tren, test, deca, you name it .. should i start hgh to get growing again? run high doses of proviron to free up my test levels? seriously im gettin :mad:

what can i do ? i want to grow like a guy should be on steroids.
 
i am genuinely looking for help guys...
i am never coming off for personal reasons . i have been on juice for a couple years already .

i have run every compound possible so far and i am starting to notice that i don't even feel like i am on steroids anymore. i mean i grow pretty well but i would not say " steroid - fast" and i don't know what i need to do to keep gaining..

i have ran really high doses of tren, test, deca, you name it .. should i start hgh to get growing again? run high doses of proviron to free up my test levels? seriously im gettin :mad:

what can i do ? i want to grow like a guy should be on steroids.

You couldve possibly already burned out or over saturated your androgen receptors.
 
I don't think they're burned, but they could very well be over saturated. Have you actually considered just cruising for like 14 weeks on a low-moderate dosage of cyp/enanth including provi ... and maybe follow that with a pct and bloodwork to see if you can stabilize your lh, S=FSH and HPTA to cycle again afterwards?

I don't know your reasons for staying on juice for the rest of your life, unless HRT, but maybe, if you flush your system and try partially restoring your HPTA, you might gain and grow a bit again and get that feeling of cycling again?
 
i am leaning towards running a high dose of test only w/ proviron for a few months. and thinkin about pickin up growth for 6 months.
 
put up a pic if you want serious help... with those stats you should be in the Mr Olympia. I'm about your height and a couple notches higher in body fat and weigh about 40 pounds less. and I am built like a freight train. so your stats make no sense at all and I'm not buying it

and yes obviously you burned out your receptors. you are supposed to cycle off and on steroids if you want to clear things out.

how old are you and when did you start juicing?
 
yeah. 5'8 and 10% at 235 is no joke.

I'm 5'8 and have been as high as 227, but it was not 10%...

Lets see a pic, we can assess your goals for you - lol.
 
dude i am at work right now . i work at a GNC in Missouri i cant post pics up right now . maybe later tonight. i am 23 years old . and yes i am rather large for my age. i get guys twice my age asking me for advice on training . no lies bro. i am also a cert. trainer on the side.
 
So young to be burnt out from juice
Man .. I mean I'm younger than u but still 23 is really young.. But u say. Ur trt now . If I were u I would cruise for awhile
 
dude i am at work right now . i work at a GNC in Missouri i cant post pics up right now . maybe later tonight. i am 23 years old . and yes i am rather large for my age. i get guys twice my age asking me for advice on training . no lies bro. i am also a cert. trainer on the side.

cool, post a pic.. i hope you are for real cause I want to know that someone 5 8 can weight that much at 10% body fat. i really do! Samir Bannout was that height and won Mr Olympia at 196 pounds. you are 40 pounds more than him!! so yeah i would like to see that.

also apol hit it on the head. you started putting male hormones at a high dosages in your body at 17 and have been going nonstop for a while. so not sure what you were expecting. only cure for your problem is coming off for a while and letting your body cleanse out and then throwing something new at it.
 
Bro if your experiencing that with gear drop everything but test and let ur body kinda rest. It seems your body thinks it's homeostasis level is at your current dose of steroids.
 
That's beast weight bro!!! I want to see a pic.... I'm 27 5'5 I've been up to 194lbs @ 15%bf and I felt real heavy... But loved the size I'm at 178 now... Trying to work my way back up from getting injured @ Bragg
 
l o l

and i mean it in a good way

you can be any type of addict.. on your drug of choice for years.. and if it catches up to you and you dont feel the effects anymore.. realize ONE thing.. MILLIONS of people who have had it worse then you.. MANNED up and did the right thing for themselves, their family and friends and got healthy... you are not a unique snowflake.

you can go on hrt for a year or so.. quit everything else.. get your head right and then decide what you want to do..

or you can screw it all up and be a statistic.

but first.. give use your stats, history, usage, dosages and why you think you need to stay on...

ive seen heroin addicts quit cold turkey at the drop of a hat after years of usage if anyone can quit like that you can quit the roids at a young age


simply put.. no dont do gh.. just thinking that is silly.. take a step back.. if your imaginery son/nephew was in your shoes right now would you suggest gh or would you tell him to quit the drugs and get healthy?
 
Hgh will just be a waste. Your too young to fully reap the benefits of it. Come off juice for about a year, and supplement with peptides in the mean time.
 
dude i am at work right now . i work at a GNC in Missouri i cant post pics up right now . maybe later tonight. i am 23 years old . and yes i am rather large for my age. i get guys twice my age asking me for advice on training . no lies bro. i am also a cert. trainer on the side.

I believe you doggy as you have no reason to lie .can you give us a sample of your cycles and your cruise dosage? But at your stats what else do you want ? Lol cruise for 3 to 4 months at a low dose of test e 200 mg then keep on blasting but u need to give your body a break .
 
Jesus tits! You must be as wide as you are tall. Waiting on those pics!

Agreed. Cruise at a low test dose for a few months, then jump back on if ya want, but take a break.
 
Just postin to see pics of this behemoth. 5'8" 235lbs @ 10% is a fuckin monster! Def callin bs until pics are up.

But OP, if it's true...props to you kid. That takes work.
 
That's beast weight bro!!! I want to see a pic.... I'm 27 5'5 I've been up to 194lbs @ 15%bf and I felt real heavy... But loved the size I'm at 178 now... Trying to work my way back up from getting injured @ Bragg

Fort* Bragg?
 
If he's been on juice since he was 17, why wouldn't he be a monster? Perfectly believable IMHO.
 
this would be my advice if i was in your situation , come off completly ,go on an aggressive extended pct and continue to train and diet like a beast,after a few months go and get checked out!tje body is an amazing thing and you very well could rebound and not be restricted to hrt at this stage.

dont stress to much about losing muscle and conditioning, when all is said and done and you climb back on you will gain it all back and then some more.think long term now not just the next 6 months or a year

from there assume a long term approach of goals and cycling to further your body

gh is not going to do much right now imho

i am giving you this advice from someone who himself started when i was 16 and has made most if not all the mistakes and has used big doses for extended preriods of time

use it dont use it ,up to u
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If he's been on juice since he was 17, why wouldn't he be a monster? Perfectly believable IMHO.

huh? he is just 5 8!!! 5 8 and 200 at 10% body fat is a monster. he is 35 pounds more than that.

Samir Bannout won Mr Olympia at that height and 196 pounds.

its believable that he weights that much only if his body fat was 25%ish. there was another dude on here a few months back who claimed to be that height and weight.. he PM'd me his pic and he was about 35% body fat no joke. it was the most disgusting thing i've ever seen.

if the OP is telling the truth he shouldn't be asking such a macro question and he should be busy comping for his next competition. with his stats and a comp he would be winning every local competition going away. usually dudes who are his height weigh in the 180's when they walk on stage which in the NPC's is considered 'middleweight' . otherwise abusing roids like that is totally pointless. if his receptors are that fried then i can't imagine what his bloodwork looks like.
 
huh? he is just 5 8!!! 5 8 and 200 at 10% body fat is a monster. he is 35 pounds more than that.

Samir Bannout won Mr Olympia at that height and 196 pounds.

its believable that he weights that much only if his body fat was 25%ish. there was another dude on here a few months back who claimed to be that height and weight.. he PM'd me his pic and he was about 35% body fat no joke. it was the most disgusting thing i've ever seen.

if the OP is telling the truth he shouldn't be asking such a macro question and he should be busy comping for his next competition. with his stats and a comp he would be winning every local competition going away. usually dudes who are his height weigh in the 180's when they walk on stage which in the NPC's is considered 'middleweight' . otherwise abusing roids like that is totally pointless. if his receptors are that fried then i can't imagine what his bloodwork looks like.

I remember Samir ... and he had one of the fullest chests I have ever seen at his lean weight. He was solid!
 
The thing is that some people just don't realize how much body fat they are carrying, especially if they have never been really lean. How many people do you hear tell you "If I could lose 10-15 lbs I would be shredded", when reality is that they would need to lose 25-30 lbs to be lean. It's amazing of all the people out there that think they are 10-12%. That is much more lean than most people think. I would guess the OP is at least around 20% if not more, but it's just a guess
 
With those stats he should be answering our questions not asking them of us...

But the next step is some heavy GH dosing - ed too, as well as insulin.

If this is a career you think you can make money off of then that's the route you choose I suppose.
 
only pics i really have on my comp. since my cam. broke. i have put on more size . wish i had some leg pics those are my best bodypart! lol . i will try to get some more pics.
 
^^I applaud you for putting up pics..

but your pics all look different.

your 2nd and 3rd pic on the left you are atleast 17% body fat. you have a belly and i could grab a chunk of fat off the sides of your stomach. if you were 10% you wouldn't be able to grab a chunk of fat off of you.

you are built like a freight train but you aren't 10% bro and you wouldn't be able to win anything in a competition at this time. . i bet you are strong as hell though!

if you want our advice i would re-assess what you are doing to your body.. just being able to bench 4 plates at the gym is not a good enough reason to blow your receptors, HPTA, and have tons of organ strain at 23 years old.. as UA iron said above if you want to go pro and make a living off of this then you need to sacrifice some strength for a more polished and leaner look.

have you done any blood work lately? how much juice have you been on? 2 grams? 3 grams a week?
 
still...holy shit.....the third pic has a good deal of striation/veins....no way 10% in the second pic or insane size in the first pic...but I actually almost believe it in the fourth and fifth
sucks theyre the worst pics

pics with phone...why do you need a cam

now Im just curious to see more
 
Damn well ur still big af.. I would still cruise it though bro .. Let ur recepetors and. Body recover. be worth it in the longer skeem of things
 
I'm curiouse to to how much gear you run per week as Steve said. But I'm not gonna lie man you look great no gay intended only 23 to eh did you stay on once you started or did you start out cycling then a little later stayed on for good?
 
Did his pics makes everyone shut up or what?? Lol

not really bro... i mean, the size if fucking great, i will definitely give him that, but to me, its just too much... its looks fucking abnormal and the body fat is nowhere near the claim...

if it were me, i would cut down a bit and shred the fuck out of the size that you have... even if you lost 10-20 lbs. you would still be fucking huge and would look much better with more shred...

you would look like more an animal a little lighter with more shred... you definitely have a fucking sweet base at this point that is very rare for that size but its what you do with it from here that will dictate future results...
 
not really bro... i mean, the size if fucking great, i will definitely give him that, but to me, its just too much... its looks fucking abnormal and the body fat is nowhere near the claim...

if it were me, i would cut down a bit and shred the fuck out of the size that you have... even if you lost 10-20 lbs. you would still be fucking huge and would look much better with more shred...

you would look like more an animal a little lighter with more shred... you definitely have a fucking sweet base at this point that is very rare for that size but its what you do with it from here that will dictate future results...

You do triathlons and have no business commenting on a bodybuilder's goals.
 
not really bro... i mean, the size if fucking great, i will definitely give him that, but to me, its just too much... its looks fucking abnormal and the body fat is nowhere near the claim...

if it were me, i would cut down a bit and shred the fuck out of the size that you have... even if you lost 10-20 lbs. you would still be fucking huge and would look much better with more shred...

you would look like more an animal a little lighter with more shred... you definitely have a fucking sweet base at this point that is very rare for that size but its what you do with it from here that will dictate future results...

I would
Love to
Be that size honestly .. We all
Have different opinion on what a great body would
Look like I suppose
 
not really bro... i mean, the size if fucking great, i will definitely give him that, but to me, its just too much... its looks fucking abnormal and the body fat is nowhere near the claim...

if it were me, i would cut down a bit and shred the fuck out of the size that you have... even if you lost 10-20 lbs. you would still be fucking huge and would look much better with more shred...

you would look like more an animal a little lighter with more shred... you definitely have a fucking sweet base at this point that is very rare for that size but its what you do with it from here that will dictate future results...

he did say they were older pics and it does appear that way...
either way his physique is more impressive than anyone else on this thread... by far.

OP, what are your competition lifts?... gym lifts?

i agree that you should just cruise a while on test... you will want to up your calories if you do that...
or you could cut, but unless you're going to do a show, maintaining sub 10% would just be a waste imo...
 
I need to see a leg pic, I'm not seeing 235 @ 10% so far - but then again, his muscle bellies are shorter - good they peak out better. Arms look on the short side - means you can fill them out easier. Abdomen is a little on the large side from what I see (probably due to all the leg training anyway).

You look like you wrestled in high school - I get that a lot, but I never wrestled.

This guy posted pics, he's thick, has great muscle bellies, could probably do well. Front and back shots head on would be better, get a better idea of overall symmetry. And honestly, its tough to see 235 right now, I am 5'8 and know what it takes. I'm not saying it isnt a possibility though.
 
You do triathlons and have no business commenting on a bodybuilder's goals.


i can comment on whatever the fuck i want anytime i want...

i said his size was very impressive, several times but he could do so much more with it... thats my opinion on it... if thats not what he's after then take it with a grain of salt ... you don't know shit about me, my background or anything else... if you have a different idea for him, share it but don't you ever fucking say i have no business commenting on a bodybuilders goals... i have been training people for over a decade and have trained plenty of bodybuilders...
 
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Its true forums are for opinions and I see no reason why anyone would tell anyone especially Dylan that he has no right to make comment. I know for a fact that Dylan puts alot of time into helping people here for no real personal gain and has always put more time into any of my private messages giving much greater detail than any other good bros I have messaged on here..... To OP looking good bro.
 
You do triathlons and have no business commenting on a bodybuilder's goals.

This is one of the most absurd comments I have read on Elite to date! Who the fuck are you to say who can comment or not? Why don't you go ahead and tell me if I have the right or background to comment on this guys bodybuilding goals? I think the same, by these pictures he has a cutting route to go, but being on for so many years, his receptors are most likely so saturated they won't be as responsive as he would cycling. The suggestion to run a very strong PCT and most likely will have to do a blast with HCG to see if the testes will wake the fuck back up after being in a coma all this time is the question...I'm sure they will at some point, but not enough for a quality of life, which HRT will be his path or crusing for the rest of his life. I remember reading an article of a guy who juiced for 10-15 years straight...never came off or took a break, he was a bouncer at many clubs, what ended up happening was he started basically rotting from the inside out...liver, heart, kidneys... his muscles became stronger than his tendons and ligaments, that guess what weakest link gave out first? In the article they spoke about an instance when this guy was walking up some stairs at a night club he was working at and his quad tendon popped and it came detached from his knee...just walking up the stairs...understanding it was weakened over time, this guy ended up in a hospital bed for a believe a year or more due to the abuse and had to learn to walk again. This wasn't the first of other muscle and tendon tears he had over the years, but the abuse caught up to him. That is what this guy is doing being on for 6 years straight!

For you to make a comment about an elite athlete, because I know that there are not many bros on here that have the work ethic that Dylan has, and say he has no right to comment on a bodybuilders goals...what the fuck do you think Dylan is doing bro??? There are so many more things I would like to say but will stop for now UA Iron...you are way out of line!

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Hey folks sorry if this seems like a dumb question...

This guy has been on since 17 and his receptors are fried or flooded or whatever after 6 years of usage. But how is it possible that this doesn't happen to pros (or does it)? From what I've read, pros never come off so wouldn't they fry their receptors as well?
 
I need to see a leg pic, I'm not seeing 235 @ 10% so far - but then again, his muscle bellies are shorter - good they peak out better. Arms look on the short side - means you can fill them out easier. Abdomen is a little on the large side from what I see (probably due to all the leg training anyway).

You look like you wrestled in high school - I get that a lot, but I never wrestled.

This guy posted pics, he's thick, has great muscle bellies, could probably do well. Front and back shots head on would be better, get a better idea of overall symmetry. And honestly, its tough to see 235 right now, I am 5'8 and know what it takes. I'm not saying it isnt a possibility though.

I will agree with you here on all of these comments...he needs to cut and drop the BF, but needs to take a break from the juice for a while...6 years straight??? That is trouble bro!!!
 
You do triathlons and have no business commenting on a bodybuilder's goals.

the hell he doesn't!!! Dylan was made a moderator on this site for a damn good reason. he has helps dozens of guys and he has only been on here for a few months.

he knows his shit end of story.
 
Hey folks sorry if this seems like a dumb question...

This guy has been on since 17 and his receptors are fried or flooded or whatever after 6 years of usage. But how is it possible that this doesn't happen to pros (or does it)? From what I've read, pros never come off so wouldn't they fry their receptors as well?

many pro's still cycle. and the ones that don't still find ways to switch up dosages and compounds to keep the body guessing. I wouldn't follow what pro's do because most of us do not have the genetics, there is a good chance they just react very well to juice.
 
I dont know about someone not having a right to comment, but i think if hes a competitive bodybuilder, then he needs to get a lil fat in the off season so that he has some fat to lose. Im not sayin get up to 15%, but 10-12 isnt gonna hurt him. Itll actually help him get stronger.
I can believe that hes 10% in a couple of those pics bc everyone carries fat differently. For me personally, at 10% i still have alot of definition in my abs and my legs are still somewhat striated. But my back is pretty smooth bc thats where i genetically hold my fat.
 
he did say they were older pics and it does appear that way...
either way his physique is more impressive than anyone else on this thread... by far.

...

I've never ran more than 900mg a week of juice EVER. this dude runs 2-3X that and he has been on 6 years straight from 17.

also dylan, rickrock, and muscle addiction have better physiques and none of them fried their receptors in the process. rickrock as far as I know has been almost exclusively natty.

so all things being equal there is no way his physique should impress anyone nor is it the correct way to run steroids. hence his problem he is having.
 
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I've never ran more than 900mg a week of juice EVER. this dude runs 2-3X that and he has been on 6 years straight from 17.

also dylan, rickrock, and muscle addiction have better physiques and none of them fried their receptors in the process. rickrock as far as I know has been almost exclusively natty. so all things being equal there is no way his physique should impress anyone

U serious? I'm not plat but from the look of those pics I'm impressed big time. Just look at those muscle bellies man full and round. There r plenty of guys out there that never come off and don't look anywhere as good as this dude. When this dude decides to get peeled look out!
 
U serious? I'm not plat but from the look of those pics I'm impressed big time. Just look at those muscle bellies man full and round. There r plenty of guys out there that never come off and don't look anywhere as good as this dude. When this dude decides to get peeled look out!

We are not saying he doesn't have some good mass...but it is beyond what he looks like at this point IMO. As Steve said he has been on juice since he was 17, his body hadn't naturally matured and he already was incorporating synthetic hormones into his body and now for 6 years straight. I will say that this kid needs to stop worrying about the fact that his body cannot utilize AAS anymore and think of the longevity and quality of his life from this day forward. Yeah, he will have a great physique for years to come until his heart decides to stop, or his liver or kidneys fail, or he ends up with prostate cancer...he is killing himself slowly and for what? To look good big and muscular? If he is not making a living off of this, or competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting then why take such massive risks! There is one thing for sure...the team of mods here have one thing (well many but...) in common...we put health and safety first above the cycle itself...and I had trained for 13 years natural before I decided to dabble in AAS, and even then it was for my first bodybuilding competition. We just want to see this kid around a little longer and not being on dialysis or something like that.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
I've never ran more than 900mg a week of juice EVER. this dude runs 2-3X that and he has been on 6 years straight from 17.

also dylan, rickrock, and muscle addiction have better physiques and none of them fried their receptors in the process. rickrock as far as I know has been almost exclusively natty.

so all things being equal there is no way his physique should impress anyone nor is it the correct way to run steroids. hence his problem he is having.

Thanks Steve...built my foundation natty for 13 years before I even ran a cycle...now I only will the safe and healthy way like all my bros here.

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its all subjective what someone is or isn't impressed by and what someone does or does not want to look like or how impressed someone is by the methods...as far as dylans opinion/advice Im sure he realizes someone else may have different goals then him and knows the different methods to get there
moya being impressed with the physique is totally valid if that what he likes
steve not being impressed because of perhaps the methods obtained to get that physique is equally valid

theyre all valid opinions dudes...chill out ( why arent I ombudsman anymore again?)
but the OP didn't ask for an opinion on his physique; he asked for help with why his juice doesn't work anymore..and while everyone has said fried receptors and would know better than me beause frankly..I dont have first hand experience I actually kind of wonder if its not so much the juice isn't working as it is "this is it" this is as far as his body is going to go no matter what compound he adds or takes away at this point..but who knows ..maybe Im way off base or missed some crucial info to the contrary but I couldnt not comment because you all seem to be operating on your own agenda in this thread with out any regard to the OP's original question

take it all with a grain of salt bros
 
U serious? I'm not plat but from the look of those pics I'm impressed big time. Just look at those muscle bellies man full and round. There r plenty of guys out there that never come off and don't look anywhere as good as this dude. When this dude decides to get peeled look out!

re-read what I wrote. he is big and strong. but to say he would win a physique contest is false. he is atleast 17% body fat in the 2nd pic, since you aren't plat you can't open it.. he has a belly.

but anyway thats besides the point the OP was asking.. he was specificaly concerned that he fried his receptors and knows that what he did was wrong starting to use steroids at 17. kudos to him for seeking help and that is what we should offer. it seems like some guys on here are applauding him for fucking himself up, not trying to help. on EF we teach RESPONSIBLE use of anabolic steroids for HEALTHY ADULT MEN. now there are exceptions for certain females or guys who have underlying problems/diseases, HIV, etc. but we have female forum and HIV forum for that.

on the AAS forum we do not applaud 17 year olds for using steroids, or even 20 year olds for that matter. its part of the rules.
 
oh...and I agree with health and safety first 100%...before I get jumped
 
i am genuinely looking for help guys...
i am never coming off for personal reasons . i have been on juice for a couple years already .

i have run every compound possible so far and i am starting to notice that i don't even feel like i am on steroids anymore. i mean i grow pretty well but i would not say " steroid - fast" and i don't know what i need to do to keep gaining..

i have ran really high doses of tren, test, deca, you name it .. should i start hgh to get growing again? run high doses of proviron to free up my test levels? seriously im gettin :mad:

what can i do ? i want to grow like a guy should be on steroids.

I would start by getting a ton of blood work done including:

CBC, CMP, lipid panel, Cortisol, DHEA Sulfate, IGF-1, IGFBP-3, Free T3, Free T4, TSH, Testosterone, Total, Free and Weakly Bound, Hemoglobin A1C, Fasting Insulin, GGT, PSA, Prolactin, Estrogen, Estradiol and Estrone.

The results of those will determine what you should do next. Very likely you might need to detox. A liver detox would probably be a good call either way at the very least.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assuming that a liver detox would be all that is necessary (big assumption here for a guy that's been on for 6 years straight - but this may apply to others too), afterwards I would probably recommend some undereating and overtraining. Reduce calories to half or less and train more (depending on how much you train now) over at least a 4-6 week period. Nothing prepares the body better for growth than a brief period of starvation (controlled catabolism). ;)

It's like BBers dieting down for a contest. They get peeled back to about 4%, then immediately after the comp they eat everything in sight, and for the next 2-3 weeks they blow up, increasing weight at a tremendous rate with very little fat gain. At some point (usually very quickly) they add in some more chemical enhancement again (though they likely never got off through the comp - but this is different) and they grow a little bit beyond where they were before.

The more you grow, the slower and harder the gains come. Adding a couple pounds a year might be the best you can hope for at this point. That is until, like UA Iron said, you go to the next step(s). That depends on if you think you have a shot at turning pro (BBer) and making a living doing this. Helluva way to make a living though. And you're talking about the top of the gene pool for size with musculature (0.0000001% - or so).

First things first though...GO GET SOME BLOOD TESTS DONE!!
 
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lol, I'm glad I was quoted so what I said is at least still there.

Continue to monitor your blood pressure as well, an ultrasound is a good idea too. Thickening of the aorta is something a lot of us who carry around too much mass have to deal with. Blood pressure will eventually pop or burst things ie aneurysms. High blood pressure coupled with hardening of arteries further increases the risk of heart problems.
 
hey bro i joined this site after i stumbled across this post. im in the same boat as you i started cycling heavy doses of test for a couple of years now im 24 now and im up to 5000mgs of test e a week and not feeling anything anymore. i feel like the test dumps out of my system fast a day after the pin. i use to be able to feel the test a week after pinns now it feels like it gets metablolized way to fast. i never take tren or any orals just strictly test. and i thought burning out androgen receptors was a myth and when people say burnt out do they ever return to normal again, everything iv ever looked up says androgen recptors increase in numbers not burn out. can someone givbe me a little help explaining how that works. what gets me is when i get blood work done i have low shgb low cortisol everyting else is in normal range just high free test. im trying to figure out why im not feeling shit from 5000mgs of test a week and sometimes more. i never want to come off i dont compete i just love the shit.
 
hey bro i joined this site after i stumbled across this post. im in the same boat as you i started cycling heavy doses of test for a couple of years now im 24 now and im up to 5000mgs of test e a week and not feeling anything anymore. i feel like the test dumps out of my system fast a day after the pin. i use to be able to feel the test a week after pinns now it feels like it gets metablolized way to fast. i never take tren or any orals just strictly test. and i thought burning out androgen receptors was a myth and when people say burnt out do they ever return to normal again, everything iv ever looked up says androgen recptors increase in numbers not burn out. can someone givbe me a little help explaining how that works. what gets me is when i get blood work done i have low shgb low cortisol everyting else is in normal range just high free test. im trying to figure out why im not feeling shit from 5000mgs of test a week and sometimes more. i never want to come off i dont compete i just love the shit.


You seriously shoot 5g of test a week and feel nothing? First of all, why would you ever do that much gear? Too many people think more is better. Pros don't even use that much....and secondly, your gear has to be severely underdosed and you may not be doing the right things either with diet and training.

What are your stats?
 
hey bro i joined this site after i stumbled across this post. im in the same boat as you i started cycling heavy doses of test for a couple of years now im 24 now and im up to 5000mgs of test e a week and not feeling anything anymore. i feel like the test dumps out of my system fast a day after the pin. i use to be able to feel the test a week after pinns now it feels like it gets metablolized way to fast. i never take tren or any orals just strictly test. and i thought burning out androgen receptors was a myth and when people say burnt out do they ever return to normal again, everything iv ever looked up says androgen recptors increase in numbers not burn out. can someone givbe me a little help explaining how that works. what gets me is when i get blood work done i have low shgb low cortisol everyting else is in normal range just high free test. im trying to figure out why im not feeling shit from 5000mgs of test a week and sometimes more. i never want to come off i dont compete i just love the shit.

i thought i addressed this earlier in the thread.. there are those though that want to believe in fairytales though and refuse to listen to common sense.

as i told the other guy cycle off from a long time and clear things out.. the whole receptor thing may or may not be true. who knows.. however there is no doubt that switching AAS, cycling off.. etc etc. will keep things clicking.

oh and please don't bump threads, start your own!
 
Its obvious he is not goin to come completly off so try giving him some he might listen too. Cruise for 6month at 250mg a week and start using hgh 5-10iu a day on training days and slin 5-10iu on training days. No reason u can keep growin a bit like that
 
Its obvious he is not goin to come completly off so try giving him some he might listen too. Cruise for 6month at 250mg a week and start using hgh 5-10iu a day on training days and slin 5-10iu on training days. No reason u can keep growin a bit like that

I would NEVER advise someone to use insulin. A little off on dosing it right could be life or death. That is nothing to play with and very bad advice
 
Good Lord and I thought I was bad. Man I hope you listen to these guys OP. They have your health in mind bro. Adding anything to this at this point will be a ticking time bomb. Get off. Do an aggressive PCT for A WHILE. Then Once your body has had a break reconxider what you want to do. If you won't come completely off Test E/C at 250 a week and get back to some level of normalcy.
 
i am genuinely looking for help guys...
i am never coming off for personal reasons . i have been on juice for a couple years already .

i have run every compound possible so far and i am starting to notice that i don't even feel like i am on steroids anymore. i mean i grow pretty well but i would not say " steroid - fast" and i don't know what i need to do to keep gaining..

i have ran really high doses of tren, test, deca, you name it .. should i start hgh to get growing again? run high doses of proviron to free up my test levels? seriously im gettin :mad:

what can i do ? i want to grow like a guy should be on steroids.

I believe you are injecting too much.
I've been injecting Test E, SuperTest 450, Deca for 7 years going on 8 years.
Sometimes omnadren and sustanon. I inject every 10 days.
I'm 56 years old and I'm still growing. What I'm afraid of is that I may reach 300lb. or more at 6'0" by next year. I'm weighing 240lb. at present time. Obesity runs in the family.
 
I believe you are injecting too much.
I've been injecting Test E, SuperTest 450, Deca for 7 years going on 8 years.
Sometimes omnadren and sustanon. I inject every 10 days.
I'm 56 years old and I'm still growing. What I'm afraid of is that I may reach 300lb. or more at 6'0" by next year. I'm weighing 240lb. at present time. Obesity runs in the family.

You got any pics?
 
few really understand the receptor mechanism and how it works as they are all different (and work with and among various other utilities/catalyst)so just because one drug (any type) can lose it's effectiveness to to receptor issues it is impossible to try and draw a conclusion unless specifically examining the nature of the action.

plagiarized excerpt that is right on point


One misunderstood principle of steroid physiology is the concept of androgen receptors (AR), sometimes called "steroid receptors", and the effects of steroid use on their regulation. It is commonly believed that taking androgens for extended periods of time will lead to what is called AR "down regulation". The premise for this argument is; when using steroids during an extended cycle, you eventually stop growing even though the dose has not decreased. This belief has persisted despite the fact that there is no scientific evidence to date that shows that increased levels of androgens down regulates the androgen receptor in muscle tissue.

The argument for AR down-regulation sounds pretty straightforward on the surface. After all, we know that receptor down-regulation happens with other messenger-mediated systems in the body such as adrenergic receptors. It has been shown that when taking a beta agonist such as Clenbuterol , the number of beta-receptors on target cells begins to decrease. (This is due to a decrease in the half-life of receptor proteins without a decrease in the rate that the cell is making new receptors.) This leads to a decrease in the potency of a given dose. Subsequently, with fewer receptors you get a smaller, or diminished, physiological response. This is a natural way for your body to maintain equilibrium in the face of an unusually high level of beta-agonism.

In reality this example using Clenbuterol is not an appropriate one. Androgen receptors and adrenergic receptors are quite different. Nevertheless, this is the argument for androgen receptor down-regulation and the reasoning behind it. The differences in the regulation of ARs and adrenergic receptors in part show the error in the view that AR down-regulate when you take steroids . Where adrenergic receptor half-life is decreased in most target cells with increased catecholamines, AR receptors half-live’s are actually increased in many tissues in the presence of androgens.1

Let me present a different argument against AR down-regulation in muscle tissue. I feel that once you consider all of the effects of testosterone on muscle cells you come to realize that when you eventually stop growing (or grow more slowly) it is not because there is a reduction in the number of androgen receptors.

Testosterone : A multifaceted anabolic

Consider the question, "How do anabolic steroids produce muscle growth?" If you were to ask the average bodybuilding enthusiast I think you would hear, "steroids increase protein synthesis." This is true, however there is more to it than simple increases in protein synthesis. In fact, the answer to the question of how steroids work must include virtually every mechanism involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy. These mechanisms include:

· Enhanced protein synthesis

· Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF -1, etc.)

· Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

· Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio)

· New myofiber formation

Starting with enhanced growth factor activity, we know that testosterone increases GH and IGF-1 levels. In a study by Fryburg the effects of testosterone and stanozolol were compared for their effects on stimulating GH release.2 Testosterone enanthate (only 3 mg per kg per week) increased GH levels by 22% and IGF-1 levels by 21% whereas oral stanozolol (0.1mg per kg per day) had no effect whatsoever on GH or IGF-1 levels. This study was only 2-3 weeks long, and although stanozolol did not effect GH or IGF-1 levels, it had a similar effect on urinary nitrogen levels.

What does this difference in the effects of testosterone and stanozolol mean? It means that stanozolol may increase protein synthesis by binding to AR receptors in existing myonuclei, however, because it does not increase growth factor levels it is much less effective at activating satellite cells and therefore may not increase satellite cell activity nor myonuclear number directly when compared to testosterone esters. I will explain the importance of increasing myonuclear number in a moment, first lets look at how increases in GH and IGF-1 subsequent to testosterone use effects satellite cells…

In part 2 we will discuss the role of satellite cells and myonuclei and how testosterone (androgens) activates these systems to create muscle growth far beyond what simple activation of the androgen receptor can produce.

In part 1 of this article we discussed the mistake of thinking about androgen receptors (testosterone receptors) in the same way we think of other receptors such as beta-receptors. Beta-receptors down regulate in response to beta-adrenergic stimulation whereas there is good evidence that androgen receptors increase in numbers in response to androgens. We also discussed the various affects of testosterone on muscle growth. Testosterone does far more than simply increase the rate of protein synthesis!

Now in part 2 we will finish our discussion of androgen receptor regulation as it pertains to the way muscle cells grow. The very mechanism of real muscle growth opens the door for increased androgen receptor number in response to testosterone treatment.

Don’t forget Satellite cells!

Satellite cells are myogenic stem cells, or pre-muscle cells, that serve to assist regeneration of adult skeletal muscle. Following proliferation (reproduction) and subsequent differentiation (to become a specific type of cell), satellite cells will fuse with one another or with the adjacent damaged muscle fiber, thereby increasing the number of myonuclei for fiber growth and repair. Proliferation of satellite cells is necessary in order to meet the needs of thousands of muscle cells all potentially requiring additional nuclei. Differentiation is necessary in order for the new nucleus to behave as a nucleus of muscle origin. The number of myonuclei directly determines the capacity of a muscle cell to manufacture proteins, including androgen receptors.

In order to better understand what is physically happening between satellite cells and muscle cells, try to picture 2 oil droplets floating on water. The two droplets represent a muscle cell and a satellite cell. Because the lipid bilayer of cells are hydrophobic just like common oil droplets, when brought into proximity to one another in an aqueous environment, they will come into contact for a moment and then fuse together to form one larger oil droplet. Now whatever was dissolved within one droplet (i.e. nuclei) will then mix with the contents of the other droplet. This is a simplified model of how satellite cells donate nuclei, and thus protein-synthesizing capacity, to existing muscle cells.

Enhanced activation of satellite cells by testosterone requires IGF-1. Those androgens that aromatize are effective at not only increasing IGF-1 levels but also the sensitivity of satellite cells to growth factors.3 This action has no direct effect on protein synthesis, but it does lead to a greater capacity for protein synthesis by increasing fusion of satellite cells to existing fibers. This increases the number of myonuclei and therefore the capacity of the cell to produce proteins. That is why large bodybuilders will benefit significantly more from high levels of androgens compared to a relatively new user.

Testosterone would be much less effective if it were not able to increase myonucleation. There is finite limit placed on the cytoplasmic/nuclear ratio, or the size of a muscle cell in relation to the number of nuclei it contains.4 Whenever a muscle grows in response to training there is a coordinated increase in the number of myonuclei and the increase in fiber cross sectional area (CSA). When satellite cells are prohibited from donating viable nuclei, overloaded muscle will not grow.5,6 Clearly, satellite cell activity is a required step, or prerequisite, in compensatory muscle hypertrophy, for without it, a muscle simply cannot significantly increase total protein content or CSA.

More myonuclei mean more receptors

So it is not only true that testosterone increases protein synthesis by activating genetic expression, it also increases the capacity of the muscle to grow in the future by leading to the accumulation of myonuclei which are required for protein synthesis. There is good reason to believe that testosterone in high enough doses may even encourage new fiber formation. To quote the authors of a recent study on the effects of steroids on muscle cells:

"Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use."7

Simply stated, supraphysiological levels of testosterone give rise to increased numbers of myonuclei and thereby an increase in the number of total androgen receptors per muscle fiber. Keep in mind that I am referring to testosterone and testosterone esters. Not the neutered designer androgens that people take to avoid side effects .

Another group of researchers are quoted as saying:

"…it is intriguing to speculate that the upregulation of AR levels via the administration of pharmacological amounts of androgens might convert some muscles that normally have a minor or no response to muscles with enhanced androgen responsiveness"(8)

This is not an argument to rapidly increase the dosages you use. It takes time for these changes to occur and the benefits of higher testosterone levels will not be immediately realized. It does shed some light however on the proportional differences between natural and androgen assisted bodybuilders physiques.

Maintenance of the kind of muscle mass seen in top-level bodybuilders today requires a given level of androgens in the body. That level will vary from individual to individual depending on their genetics. Nevertheless, if the androgen level drops, or if they were to "cycle off" the absolute level of lean mass will also drop. Likewise, as the level of androgens goes up, so will the level of lean mass that individual will be able to maintain. All of this happens without any evidence of AR down regulation. More accurately it demonstrates a relationship between the amount of androgens in the blood stream and the amount of lean mass that you can maintain. This does not mean that all you need is massive doses to get huge. Recruitment of satellite cells and increased myonucleation requires consistent "effective" training, massive amounts of food, and most importantly, time. Start out with reasonable doses. Then, as you get bigger you can adjust your doses upwards.

References:

1. Kemppainen JA, Lane MV, Sar M, Wilson EM. Androgen receptor phosphorylation, turnover, nuclear transport, and transcriptional activation. Specificity for steroids and antihormones. J Biol Chem 1992 Jan 15;267(2):968-74

2. Fryburg DA., Weltman A., Jahn LA., et al: Short-term modulation of the androgen milieu alters pulsatile, but not exercise- or growth hormone releasing hormone -stimulated GH secretion in healthy men: Impact of gonadal steroid and GH secretory changes on metabolic outcomes. J Clin Endocrinol. Metab. 82(11):3710-37-19, 1997

3. Thompson SH., Boxhorn LK., Kong W., and Allen RE. Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin -like growth factor-I. Endocrinology. 124:2110-2117, 1989

4. Rosenblatt JD, Yong D, Parry DJ., Satellite cell activity is required for hypertrophy of overloaded adult rat muscle. Muscle Nerve 17:608-613, 1994

5. Rosenblatt JD, Parry DJ., Gamma irradiation prevents compensatory hypertrophy of overloaded extensor digitorum longus muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 73:2538-2543, 1992

6. Phelan JN, Gonyea WJ. Effect of radiation on satellite cell activity and protein expression in overloaded mammalian skeletal muscle. Anat. Rec. 247:179-188, 1997

7. Kadi F, Eriksson A, Holmner S, Thornell LE. Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov;31(11):1528-34

8. Antonio J, Wilson JD, George FW. Effects of castration and androgen treatment on androgen-receptor levels in rat skeletal muscles. J Appl Physiol. 1999 Dec;87(6):2016-9.
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one thing i will say is ,you'll never look like me me when you get my age!
 
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