Starvation response (binge eating) help!

[artrius]

We all know that the body entering starvation mode is bad... it slows the metabolism and catabolizes our hard earned muscle.

So here's the deal. I've always been a fatty, starting out at around 300lbs. I dieted down and lost about 75 lbs over the course of 6 months (starting about 2 years ago) by eating on average, 1200 cals a day. I was probably around 27-28% bodyfat, and I had some decent muscle. Just over a year ago, I joined the military; I was about 225 when I entered. Through boot camp, I lost another 15-20lbs. However, I was NOT eating right, and that's when my problem started.

I felt like I was getting fat during boot camp, so I would frequently not eat at all. Near the end of boot camp when we were done with most of our training and had some liberty, they allowed us to have some junk food runs. Due to a starvation response (I guess), I started binge eating on junk food. I never really had the problem in the months following boot camp.

I got out and hoped the problem would go away, but it didn't. I started off with my normal starvation diet, eating around 1200 cals a day. I finally decided, after a while, that this was bad, and upped my calories to around 2000-2200. I gained all the muscle that I'd lost back and then some. Even though I bumped up my cals, the problem hadn't gone away.

Well, its been a year since boot camp. I've been frustrated with this problem for a while. The binge eating is DESTROYING my efforts at getting thin. I am currently around 235 with a good amount of muscle mass, but I still have a lot of fat. Because of the binge eating, I have been doing 5-6 days of cardio a week (40 min in the morning), but the binging sets me back quite far. It only happens like once or twice a week, when I'm bored, hungry, and/or tired. I have no idea why I do it, my brain just goes into autopilot sometimes and I can't stop it from happening.

Recently, I checked my bodyfat (via a simple measurement calculation), and it was not improving. I totally tripped out that day. I was fed up with it. So, I've recently said F*CK this, and I'm just going to try another method for a while.

All I can think of is that technically speaking, my calories are a lot lower than what my metabolism *should* be. By any equation or thumbrule that I use, my total daily cals for maintenance comes out to be around 3500, with my level of activity (lifting 5x per week, very heavy, doing cardio at least 3x per week, playing racquetball on the weekends). And that's with a fairly conservative approach to activity modifiers. (Currently 235lbs @ around 18% bf)

So what I'm going to try is to up my calories to 3500 and cut back a little on cardio (to 3x per week). I want to see if giving my body more food will nix the problem. Maybe, I hope, the problem is just some sort of starvation response. I don't plan on losing any fat on this; I just hope to resolve the situation.

So I guess the question is: what do you think I should do? I'm tired of trying to cut right now. I don't want to see a shrink about this. I haven't given all the details, but it is a *VERY* serious problem for me. I have been known to consume an additional 5000 (yes, 5000) cals in one day in a short time due to this problem (boosting the total to 7000-8000 cals).

If you can help me, please do. I'm about at the end of my rope.

 

[Grebe22]

I had the same kind of problem with the binge eating following restrictive dieting. For the last five or six months, I was trying to get cut up without burning muscle. I'm 6'1" 180 lbs. and didn't have a ton of fat to get rid of then, but I wanted abs really bad for the summer. I ran for 60 minutes 5x a week first thing in the morning, then did weights in the afternoon 5x a week. I kept calories around 2,250 and tried to be "perfect" every day. Then, come Sunday, when I had no classes or work and nothing to keep me busy, I'd start just downing everything in sight that I hadn't allowed myself to eat all week, and by the end of the day Sunday I felt incredibly bloated and sick and I had basically undone all the work I did during the week.

I read a lot about people binging because they are being to restrictive with their diets, so I decided to not try to eat "perfect" every single day. For the last month, I've kept calories at 2,300 a day, I do morning cardio (only 45 mins. now) 4x a week, and lift in the afternoon 5x a week still. But now, if my brain is craving something "bad" I'll let myself eat something "bad" in controlled amounts. For example, I'll fill a small bowl with salsa and eat Tostitos Scoops with it until the salsa's gone, and then no more chips and no re-filling the salsa. I feel satisfied, like I ate junk (probably because chips ARE junk), but I didn't completely bomb on my diet. The other day, I ate 1/4 of a frozen pizza; it came out to be about 600 calories, but I didn't get down on myself afterwards, and then just worked a little bit harder when I lifted two hours later.

One month after changing the way I look at my diet, I am very very close to having those abs I've been trying so hard to get. The best part is, I don't have such bad cravings anymore, and I've gotten really good at not giving in to the "wrong" things. I got home from work yesterday and my mom had a deep dish pizza from Old Chicago and two boxes of Krispy Kreme's sitting there. While my fat-ass brother (who's gained 90 lbs. of fat in the last year...pisses me off) ate 3/4 of the pizza and 3 Krispy Kreme's, I went and had a turkey sandwich; I didn't even WANT the pizza or donuts.

Good luck with your problem, I know the feeling and it sucks, it's one of the most helpless feelings you can have, and I remember how it seemed like my brain just took over and I was out of control. The key is moderation; if you crave something, let yourself have some, but then you gotta have restraint and stop yourself from the binge.

 

[Gymgurl]

try uping your cals so your not starving and also balancing out your meals. Give yourself a day to cheat a little. When you are restrictive, you tend to rebel. let yourself know that you can have anything in moderation on that day.

 

[SubjectiveIllusion]

Please see your doctor. This could turn into a serious eating disorder that may affect you for the rest of your life.

Lotsa Love bro

 

[artrius]

If upping my cals does not fix the problem, I may very well have to see a doc. I definantly do not want to have some frickin eating disorder for the rest of my life.

 

[Grebe22]

I was really close to going and seeing a doctor, especially because psychological disorders run in the family; my dad's got mild depression, and my brother, mom, and grandpa have attention deficit disorder. I do consider myself to be mentally healthy, though, and fighting through the binge eating the last month has made me believe in myself 100x more than if I'da resorted to seeking medical help (or relying on medication to get through it). But if you can't make it stop, then a doctor's visit might be the best thing for you! There ain't no shame in it man, better alive, happy, and healthy than dead, depressed, and binging.

 

[artrius]

True that. For the last few days, I've been eating more, as I said. Today, I went and did legs, and I must say, I think I had the best workout ever (for legs, at least). So now I say, F*CK bodybuilding for now. I'm gonna just work on strength and mass. Bodybuilding is too damned stressful, because I trip out over the slightest gain in bf%. I'm not gonna let myself get fat (I can't because I'm in the military), but I'm gonna eat more for sure.

Thanks for the help on this. I'll keep you updated on how this goes.

 

[LaRoche]

Wish you the best. I know what you mean - I have recently been undergoing the same thing. It all started last summer, when I was doing lots of cardio. I'm 5'8" 160 lb now, but last summer I was lifting hard and due to all the cardio and holding back on my diet, I was 145-150. I know it doesn't seem like much of a variance, but to me it was the pshycological impact - my abs never looked better, and I did everything to keep them and myself looking lean. Went winter rolled around, my cardio options were restricted - it gets cold up here in Canada. I slowly noticed the weight coming back on and I went to 170 by new years. There were times when I just said F this and did exactly what you are talking about. I'm now a bit leaner, but the problem remains - like sometimes I have planned for just one piece of chocolate when I come home from work - and something in my brain kicks in and I'm like roaming the place looking for anything to eat. Then afterwards I feel pretty down. I've read on various boards that are are some things that can help - like brushing your teeth and just going outside for a walk. There's also some things that I've noticed help me: drinking lots of green tea or any hot tea, maybe a hot milk, or gonig outside and having a nice cup of coffee in a nice coffee shop - caffeine is supposed to help. It's also just a matter of calming yourself down somehow. I find that I just need to calm down when I go all out - its not so much that I'm hungry, but I'm saying F everything. I would say for me going for a walk to a nice coffee shop and getting my cappucino is soothing - when I come home I just have to remind myself that tomorrow is another day - I'll have that time to eat well - after my workout, when I'll give it all I've got - and say F everthing while doing my deadlifts. Keep it up - good to read your post.

 

[SubjectiveIllusion]

You know this is out of hand!!!

Call your doctor.

Do it NOW!!!

 

[chewyxrage]

You know this is out of hand!!!

Call your doctor.

Do it NOW!!!

back off bro, I think he saw your post the first time

let him at least attempt to fix it himself, damn

 

[artrius]

I know its out of hand, but I want to try this before I get doctors involved. With my job in the military, anything like this on my record could ruin my career and get me booted.

I've always been trying to lose bodyfat, and for the most part, I've been doing it by going too far under my maintenance calories. I think, though, that since I will be eating all this extra food, my body won't be crying out for extra food and invoking that starvation response, if that's what it is. I think that, at 3500 calories a day, I won't have a chance to be hungry. I'll still incorporate cheat days, but of course, be reasonable about them.

I know that its been going on for a long time, too long in fact, but I want to try this. I really think this could help. If not, then I'll give up and call a doctor.

I can't say for sure that it will solve the problem, but there are a few other things that I'm trying to do better about it too. I'm usually by myself a lot. That doesn't help any. I'm going to try hanging out with my buddies more. Like I said, I binge eat when I'm bored, hungry, or tired. (Although if I'm emotionally f*ed up, I'll do it then too) If I minimize those, then I think it will take care of the problem.

I know it sounds like a cop out, but I really think that this will help. If not, the doctors can come take me away. I promise.

 

[artrius]

back off bro, I think he saw your post the first time

let him at least attempt to fix it himself, damn

I see his point though. Its easy to become complacent about your own problems when you are used to living with them. Sometimes it takes a slap in the face to realize what you are doing is REALLY bad.

thank you both, though.

 

[Lao Tzu]

The only times i've ever binged are when i restricted calories way too far for too long or after a really hard lifting workout that tore my muscles up pretty good. I guess both had the same effect, my body needed way more calories to repair itself and keep it going than i was giving it so it overpowered me.

I think SSRIs may help with binge eating. Topamax (an epilepsy drug) may help too. I'll look up some other drugs you may want to try. I just dug up a study that showed meridia can help.

I second the idea of increasing calories a bit. 1200 for an active person who is 225 lbs is not nearly enough. That is 1/3 or less of what you need each day. A good diet with 2 lbs a week of fat loss should have maybe a 1200 kcal a day deficit, you are running closer to a 2500 kcal a day deficit.

Have you checked the library for books? Alot of the info i can find on google just says cognitive behavior therapy is good. but they dont go into detail. maybe a book will have better details.

ANyway, i 'think' that increasing maintenance calories to maybe 3500 and making diet calories closer to 2400, starting drugs like topamax & SSRIs while using CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) should make some dents in your disorder. Good luck.

 

[Lao Tzu]

http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/april/briefCommunicationTopiramate.asp

That is one of many topamax (topiramate) studies i have seen. that one showed really good results with topamax. i dont know if that entire class of drugs (antieleptics) works for binge eating or just topamax though.


Saaaaaaaaaadly topamax in the doses given (150mg a day) will run you about $5 a day.

 

[haploid]

I binge on Saturday every week, and this does not appear to be a problem for me.

I am currently on a slightly-more-restrictive variation of the ANBP diet, I will enter my 5th week tomorrow. I have been very very strict with my amounts and times Sunday-Friday, then on Saturday, I hit McDonalds 3 times and super-size everything - someties I throw in a trip to my favorite pizza place. I consider this my refeed day as it's something that really demolishes my cravings until the next Saturday.

So far I am down about 15lbs - of which 6 is water. I am just under 2lbs of fat loss per week, which I consider to be very good. This in spite of binging. Obviously I could be eating a whole lot cleaner than mcd's - and I will go cleaner as soon as my fat loss plateaus, but for now It's all good

I think binging/refeed is a very important part of the diet if you're doing anything ketogenic.

Maybe you ought to consider going keto, then schedule your binges as you would a refeed.

 

[artrius]

Drugs are a no go for me, I'm in the military and we get tested for drugs VERY often. Only if a doctor prescribes it, will it be alright. thanks for the suggestion, though.

And by the way, I was originally at 1200, but I came to my senses about that a long time ago. I've been (until just a few days ago) eating 2200-2400. I think that even this, however, was a little too low.

I don't know about the going crazy thing. I've done keto diets before, but not with such a huge cheat fest. I'm not sure that would be beneficial in my case. I'm gonna go for mass and strength for a while, I think that would be best for me. I need a boost. I feel better when I get stronger; that will help me more at this point, I think.

 

[Grebe22]

Someone mentioned coffee and I have to agree with that, too. I used to hate coffee but I've been discovering a lot of foods that I thought I "hated" I actually like (e.g. cold pizza)...now I drink coffee first thing in the morning before I do cardio, and then I have another cup of coffee either before I go lift later on or else if I'm having cravings I'll have my coffee then, and it really does make the cravings go away.

If nothing else, have a Tbsp or two of peanut butter, the stuff tastes great and it will satisfy your hunger too.

 

[Zer0 Defects]

I've had the same problem with binging on the weekends. Just so much free time to just sit and think about how I want to eat junk food....its overwhelming... Although, this is the end of my first week on the ANPB diet and so far not binging this weekend has been no problem for me at all. The ANPB just keeps me satisfied longer, and while its only been a week, I'd still recommend giving it a try. In any case, good luck and you can beat this!

- Zer0

 

[artrius]

Actually, I've just added peanuts into the diet (5-6 days ago?). I decided, for some reason, to get some ANPB at the store yesterday, so I gotta figure out where to throw that into the diet as well. All's well thus far.

Lemme tell you, though, as I said, I'm upping my calories, and its pretty rough. My stomach is like " 'eyyy, wasssup hombre??? whachyoo dooiiiinnnn??" Not used to eating this much food yet

 

[massm]

artrius, I feel your pain and I have a similar problem I've been dealing with. I've always been strict with my diet but it never led to the uncontrollable all-out binging sessions. We simply obsess over our diets too much and try to make our whole regimen flawless, but perfection never works for many on a diet -- it's a natural instinct to binge when you are totally neglecting yourself of any 'fun foods'. A few tips that have helped me along the way:

When planning to 'cheat', try your best to be around other people. Binging becomes extreme when you are alone/lonely, and let's face it: we are a little more controlled in a public environment.

Give yourself SMALL treats throughout the day. For example, put a little sauce on your chicken or some other forbidden condiment once in a while, it really helps you not feel neglected the rest of the day and can help with controlled eating.

LOTS of broccoli and EFA oils (I use Udo's Choice). When I have a planned meal I always work my way from my least favorite food (generally the oil) and work my way to my favorite, which is generally the protein source. Vegetables really can help fill a void in the midst of a meal, broccoli has been a good friend to me when dieting. Fibrous veggies will make you feel full and are not calorically dense (like nuts).

The real issue is not denying yourself of all pleasure associated with food. Spice up your diet a bit, eat a variety of allowable foods, and occasionally throw in a small serving of something "forbidden". The looser approach for dieting won't make you obsessive about it, and I've always found binge eating to be a result of obsessively thinking about NOT binge eating. It's a vicious cycle.

I do agree, there is likely psychological factors behind this that can be better examined my a doctor. I personally never went that route although it probably would have helped. For me, it's just a matter of re-arranging my schedule and my lifestyle to not allow those situations where I feel like binging. Try to limit idleness, being alone, and try and keep our outlook on life positive and think of things in perspective rather than fixate on specific aspects of life.

I know it sounds easier than it is, because I've been there. You simply need to treat yourself once in a while, and tell yourself that nothing is forbidden in your diet, it's just a matter of doing things in moderation. Don't wait for that binging urge to kick in to eat foods off your diet, squeeze in small portions when you are feeling happy and content with yourself. Learn to associate positive behavior with rewaring yourself with food.

Sorry this is long, but it's an issue that is very close to home.

 

[artrius]

Yea, I do try to be too clean on my diet, never actually allowing any junk food. Its just that normally, I don't even really want it. I used to really like junk, but I eventually stopped liking those things, like donuts, candy bars, etc.

That is definantly something I gotta work on, I guess. Thanks for the tip, I had forgotten about that part. While I know I need to keep my body healthy, I tend to forget that a little bit of junk food is good for you sometimes.

 

[heregothere]

Hey man -

I feel for you. I've gone through the same thing. You must first realize that binging is psychological and (thankfully) that it is controllable. Your first priority needs to be getting yourself healthy. Do not worry about your love handles right now. You need to listen to your body and eat when you are hungry. Don't count calories as you are likely being too conservative and are rounding down. The time for perfecting your physique will come later. Right now your body IS NOT capable of looking how you want it to look. You need to get your metabolism stoked, and that means you need to be eating LOTS of healthy, nutritious, sustaining food, day in and day out.

You might want to look into talking to a shrink; if you don't go that route, as it sounds like it may just not be plausible, you need to read and learn for yourself how to maintain a healthy body. Also, the internet is a big place and there are all kinds of support groups that you can join that will aid you in defeating this. I can tell you are a smart and rational guy from what you've written, that you're going through a rough spot, that you're stuck in a vicious cycle. But you CAN beat it, you just have to fight as hard as you can. Good luck and if you have any questions, we're here to help you out bro.

 

[artrius]

Well, its been about a week since I've been eating more. I haven't had any problems at all. Its just about the weekend, so we'll see how that goes, but I'm sure it will be fine.

I've been eating 3200-4000 cals all this week, and I even started taking my creatine again. I was expecting to have gained a little weight, even if it was just water weight, but I actually lost a pound (since 4 days ago).

I'm still in the process of upping my calories, though. I'll keep updating this thread from time to time. Once again, thanks for all the support.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Well, its been about a week since I've been eating more. I haven't had any problems at all. Its just about the weekend, so we'll see how that goes, but I'm sure it will be fine.

I've been eating 3200-4000 cals all this week, and I even started taking my creatine again. I was expecting to have gained a little weight, even if it was just water weight, but I actually lost a pound (since 4 days ago).

I'm still in the process of upping my calories, though. I'll keep updating this thread from time to time. Once again, thanks for all the support.

Good luck bud, Keep us updated about how increasing calories works. Is going a week w/o binging new to you? You seemed to say it used to occur 1-2x a week. If you can go several weeks w/o it happening maybe the problem will be cured.

 

[artrius]

well, going a week without binging isn't really new, as I've gone sometimes for 2-3 weeks without, but this is obviously a step in the right direction. I usually have to fight it off, and now I'm not even really thinking about it. I think it might be safe to say in a few weeks that I'm on the road to recovery.