Start HCG same day as cycle or wait for last 4 weeks?

[HXT]

Im running Test 500 mg for 10 weeks. nothing wild obviously. but Im going to try running hcg during because Ive heard of its intra-cycle benefits. However Im hearing mixed responses. some sources say to run along the whole cycle, while others say its beneficial to wait until week 6 before administering HCG.

what do you think?

 

[100years]

I take it from the start 250-333iu eod sometimes it's e2d. I hate when my boys atrophy. It also seems like a good idea to keep them functioning. The biggest concern is will the cells in the testicles get desensitized to lh/fsh. I don't think they do..at that does it is not excessive either.

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[Zinergy]

The biggest concern is will the cells in the testicles get desensitized to lh/fsh. I don't think they do..at that does it is not excessive either.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6264875

The study shows that there is downregulation/loss of receptors with HCG use.

I would keep doses absolutely minimal because it will actually make recovery harder if you botch it up.

 

[stevesmi]

hcg absolutely will desensitize your leydig cells.. it is a hormone after all which mimics LH

using it on cycle is counter productive and will cause you to be shut down harder

the only benefits to using hcg is you artificially keep your nuts plump, but you can accomplish the same thing with hcgenerate or phytoserms

hcg is a scam. it was pushed by Kevin Trudeau who is now in prison for 10 years for fraud. clinics started pushing the hcg diet which is just a starvation diet, you lose weight cause you restrict calories to 500 per day, not cause the hcg does anything

 

[madheatfan3]

500ius a week last 4 weeks of cycle


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[MasonicBodybuilder]

I say just don't use it at all. Honestly the only positive effect it has is making your balls come back to normal size. Other than that it does not help recover but actually suppresses natural test further. Those that disagree do not know how HCG actually works.

 

[stevesmi]

From an expert

http://www.allthingsmale.com/community/threads/twice-per-day-hcg-shots.24827/#post-234047

i think i would rather trust actual blood work than a forum member playing 'doctor'

blood work does not lie. hcg is SUPPRESSIVE PERIOD.

the more you use it, the more you desensitize your leydig cells. playing around with your hormones like that isn't smart. there is another forum doctor on meso who fucked up A LOT of guys over the years by telling them to use hcg during pct and bridge. FUCKED THEM UP royally

 

[Zinergy]

Yes ideally you want to use the smallest dose and replicate it to how your body naturally exerts LH, which is a very small constant supply.

Take it daily or even twice daily, 25iu per injection or total 50iu/day. If you take care and time it out you will have a seamless recovery.




As far as sperm production goes hCG does actually work in increasing sperm production as per this study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6434586

In the four experimental subjects, sperm concentrations increased significantly from 0.7 +/- 0.7 million/ml (mean +/- SEM) during T treatment alone to 19 +/- 4 million/ml during hLH plus T administration (P less than 0.001).

 

[muskate]

You NEVER want to use HCG in a PCT protocol as it is suppressive of natural testosterone production.

Do some research on HCG -> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/hcg-dangerous-part-2-a-51145.html

The only time I can see HCG having merit is for someone who has been on TRT for a long time who is trying to get their wife pregnant.

Besides that individual circumstance, I feel that HCG does more harm then good.

Ask anyone why they include HCG in their cycle/PCT lay out and they will give you a bioscience answer. I have not once heard a proper scientific answer as to why HCG should be a part of a cycle or PCT lay out.

 

[Zinergy]

You NEVER want to use HCG in a PCT protocol as it is suppressive of natural testosterone production.

Do some research on HCG -> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/hcg-dangerous-part-2-a-51145.html

The only time I can see HCG having merit is for someone who has been on TRT for a long time who is trying to get their wife pregnant.

Besides that individual circumstance, I feel that HCG does more harm then good.

Ask anyone why they include HCG in their cycle/PCT lay out and they will give you a bioscience answer. I have not once heard a proper scientific answer as to why HCG should be a part of a cycle or PCT lay out.

To prevent atrophy and loss of function of the testes...

Same idea regarding body parts that are immobilized for long periods of time due to injuries, they atrophy and lose function, sometimes permanently, exactly what happens to your testes on cycle.

Keep in mind your HPTA still has to recover produce LH/FSH and that will take time but the point of this is to ensure that your testes are good to go when your HPTA is back up.


The longer something in your body is suppressed the harder it will be to recover.

 

[stevesmi]

hcg doesn't even increase sperm count.

another myth parroted on forums

there isn't a single drug that is FDA approved to increase sperm count in men NOTHING increases sperm count in men, if it did the inventor would have become a multi billionaire by now.

the only thing in studies that has shown promise was a study in Egypt where men took clomid + vitamin E and there sperm counts did rise. but it was temporary

in fact hcg actually will cause a DROP in sperm count

 

[100years]

hcg doesn't even increase sperm count.

another myth parroted on forums

there isn't a single drug that is FDA approved to increase sperm count in men NOTHING increases sperm count in men, if it did the inventor would have become a multi billionaire by now.

the only thing in studies that has shown promise was a study in Egypt where men took clomid + vitamin E and there sperm counts did rise. but it was temporary

in fact hcg actually will cause a DROP in sperm count

Effect of clomiphene citrate on sperm density in male partners of infertile couples.

The mean sperm count in Group I increased from 3.84 +/- 0.32 to 8.2 +/- 1.58 (P < 0.05) and in Group II from 13.05 +/- 0.48 to 24.55 +/- 1.73 (P < 0.001). The mean motile sperm count in Group I increased from 1.74 +/- 0.25 to 3.92 +/- 0.83 (P < 0.05) and in Group II from 8.27 +/- 0.40 to 10.05 +/- 0.56 (P < 0.01). Thus clomiphene citrate exerts its effect on spermatogenesis by raising the endogenous serum FSH, LH and testosterone levels to initiate and maintain gametogenesis (10). Researchers opined that this increase in endogenous gonadotrophins manifests itself in improving the sperm count, sperm motility and to certain extent morphology of the sperms, when there is no end-organ pathology



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[Zinergy]

hcg doesn't even increase sperm count.

another myth parroted on forums

there isn't a single drug that is FDA approved to increase sperm count in men NOTHING increases sperm count in men, if it did the inventor would have become a multi billionaire by now.

the only thing in studies that has shown promise was a study in Egypt where men took clomid + vitamin E and there sperm counts did rise. but it was temporary

in fact hcg actually will cause a DROP in sperm count

I posted a study man... You're saying a factual study is broscience...

 

[stevesmi]

I posted a study man... You're saying a factual study is broscience...

nope

I'm saying the FDA never approved hcg for fertility in men. NOTHING is fda approved for that.

hcg may initially boost fertility since it mimics LH, but over time it won't increase it. it will actually cause a drop, the HPTA is too smart

think about it, if hcg did increase fertility and all this good stuff long term.. why don't docs prescribe it for TRT instead of testosterone? if such a thing is possible life would be simple.. we could run grams of gear for 2 years straight with hcg and all would be well

I used to recommend hcg years ago, and I used it myself... but after seeing my own blood work after using this shit my view is hcg is a scam. it is pushed by indian pharmacies and american telemarketers like Kevin Trudeau and clinics. people spend $50 on a vial of this stuff and it is completely counter productive and useless to use. hcg wont help you recover, it will actually delay recovery. you want your LH and FSH to rise during pct, not drop

it is true you will feel better using hcg during pct, i won't deny that. but that would be like saying it is smart to use test during pct too. you have to allow your HPTA to recover without interference.

 

[stevesmi]

who are you going to believe. the scientists conducting the studies? or the naked guy online?

haha! funny!

I never said the 'studies' were wrong, but they hardly prove that hcg should be used by men who cycle steroids. did the study test dudes cycling steroids who used hcg vs. guys who didn't include hcg? correct me if i am wrong would love to see that study. also look it up, hcg was NEVER fda approved to boost sperm count, am i being non factual with that too? I never said it didn't boost sperm count, i said it was never FDA approved to. i would think if it was effective some pharma company would be making a fortune selling it for that purpose or would be trying to get it FDA approved for that

discussing hcg on forums is like talking to a brick wall, because we have so many forum parroters who push this stuff for years + every little indian scammer dude wants to sell it to people. so of course I am wrong in every newbs eyes cause they have heard nothing but how you must use hcg blah blah blah

there are thousands of Kevin Trudeau fans that still claim it is a govt conspiracy. dude is serving 10 years in prison for among all things, pushing the hcg scam diet.

hcg works, go for it and use it. however don't think that you are doing your HPTA any favors using it. might as well slam some test too while you are at it. injecting something that MIMICS LH, the most important hormone for a man is ridiculous. you need your OWN PITUITARY gland producing LH. hcg is just something some online guru came up with during the 2000's to add to cycle and/or pct. funny how nobody used the stuff before then, even though it was around for decades prior. people slam the stuff and their balls plump up so they assume it is working to their benefit. it isn't. it is actually HURTING YOU