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Squats and Your Back

bmjaa

New member
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1. RESEARCH UPDATE: Squats And Your Back
----------------------------------------

Are squats really bad for your back?

New research shows that squats -- often criticized on the basis
they're "bad" for your back -- could actually be doing your spine
some good.

In many modern health clubs, the popularity of exercise machines
has left the squat rack relegated to a dark, dusty corner in the
back of the gym. However, this recent trial shows that squats
(and other related exercises, such as the deadlift) could be the
best way to maintain the strength of your spine as you get older.

The study, published in the International Journal of Sports
Medicine, examined the back of the man holding the current world
record for the squat. Despite being able to squat over 1,000
pounds, several scans revealed a remarkably healthy spine.

* MRI scans revealed normal spinal alignment.

* There was no evidence of disc herniation.

* In addition, there was no sign of compressive disc disease.

More important, the scans also showed an extremely high level of
"bone strength" (called bone mineral density) in the spine. This
is important, especially for women. According to some estimates,
one out of every three women over the age of 65 will suffer a
fracture of the spine.

A reduced bone mineral density -- which increases your risk of a
fracture -- is far more widespread than previously thought.
Recent surveys show that almost 4 out of 10 women aged 50 or over
have osteopenia, which is a mild bone mineral loss.

When calcium in your diet runs short, the body drains the calcium
stored in your bones. This weakens them significantly. Some
bones, especially those in the spine, can become so weak that
just the weight of your body causes them to suddenly
disintegrate, often into scattered fragments that can't be
reassembled.

Your spine can also become "compressed" during old age, forming
what is often called "dowager's hump". This is the posture
assumed by many older women as they appear to get shorter.

One last tip...

When squatting with a heavy weight, make sure to avoid the
popular recommendation to keep your back flat. According to Dr.
Mel Siff, in his book Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, a flat back
is, "virtually impossible" for most normal people to achieve.

"Keeping the back 'flat' is common advice in the gymnasium
training environment, yet its validity is rarely questioned.
Actually, a flat back devoid of any curvature, is not only
virtually impossible for a normal person to achieve, but it
also reduces the ability of the spine to absorb or distribute
shock and stress effectively."

Although there are numerous factors affecting the strength of
your bones, training with heavy weights is one of the best ways
to ensure you're still leading an active life right into old age.

Reference

Dickerman, R.D., Pertusi, R., & Smith, G.H. (2002). The upper
range of lumbar spine bone mineral density? An examination of the
current world record holder in the squat lift. International
Journal of Sports Medicine, 21, 469-470
 
bmjaa said:


"Keeping the back 'flat' is common advice in the gymnasium
training environment, yet its validity is rarely questioned.
Actually, a flat back devoid of any curvature, is not only
virtually impossible for a normal person to achieve, but it
also reduces the ability of the spine to absorb or distribute
shock and stress effectively."



Virtually impossible for the normal person? Probobly because the normal person has never step foot in a gym.
 
Squats are my favorite exercise. Been doing them for years...never use wraps or a belt. If your form is good, you don't need 'em. Never had problems, all squats do is give you BIG legs!
 
Was always a little nervous t do squats so I would always use a machine or use the smith machine. But now in the laste few months I have been doing squats. I must say, I dunno what the hell I was so worried about. I love them and my legs are exploding. To be able to get your ass to hit the floor and come back up is intense. Actually wednesday was my last leg day and I almost passed out of my last set of squats after I did them. Sorry for the rambling but just love them.!!!:D
 
Hauge said:
Was always a little nervous t do squats so I would always use a machine or use the smith machine. But now in the laste few months I have been doing squats.

Just curious, but what is the 'major' difference? I like the Smith Machine for stability. Should I be doing more free squats as opposed to the machines?
 
I think its a personal preference. I dont like the fact that I have to travel a certain path. I just dont feel as comfortable, plus I dont think you can beat free weight squats anyways. Just my .02$ though
 
Smith vs Free Weight

alien amp pharm said:


Just curious, but what is the 'major' difference? I like the Smith Machine for stability. Should I be doing more free squats as opposed to the machines?

Absolutelty! Smith will resrict the range of motion and not allow you to fully engage all of your muscles (especially the stabilizers).. That is why free weight squats are king... its a total body exercise! I do my squats in a power cage for the safety you would look for in a smith machine (spotting)
 
I personally think you get more by doing free squats. When I was playing f-ball, we'd do a hellish squat routine. Knees NEVER when over your toes...you kicked your ass out and went down slow...rolled the hips on the up movement...WOW!

I love 'em. I do squats twice a weeks, one heavy and one light!
 
I personally think you get more by doing free squats. When I was playing f-ball, we'd do a hellish squat routine. Knees NEVER when over your toes...you kicked your ass out and went down slow...rolled the hips on the up movement...WOW!

I love 'em. I do squats twice a weeks, one heavy and one light! They just keep blowing up, even with my torn miniscus!
 
yes, don't be fooled by the smith machine. I see far too many guys with really small legs, doing really heavy weight, with little depth on the smith machine. I guess they feel more safe or comfortable, and load plates on it and barely move it. Even with good depth you still don't get full range of motion with the smith machine. I do all squats with free weights and go really deep. Only wish we had a cage out our gym, I do like that added safety.
 
Well damn, you all have convinced me. Free weight squats from now on.:o
 
There is an incredible full body anabolic effect (with the release of GH) as the result of all of those stabilizer muscles firing during the squat.

Squats on the smith machine may build some quad size if you are lucky, freeweight squats will cause your entire body to grow.

If you are going to do smith machine squats you might as well use the hack.

Frankly, you have to be doing squats or you aren't serious.
 
Re: when I do squats with even light weight.

johnboy said:
I feel like my knee's are goiong to blow out. What am I doing wrong ?

What is your stance? if not sure have someone watch you or video. I'd bet you have a wide stance or a wider than you knees like! The wider the stance the more pressure you put on the knees.. Also, make sure you NEVER let your knees travel beyond your toes as you do a rep. With good form your knees should not be bothering you.

Good Luck
 
This is such an amazing and universal misunderstanding I think it is humorous,

The solution to form issues and gaining a lot of size through intensity is very simply:

Do front squats.


It is impossible to this exercise incorrectly without falling down or breaking your collarbone, your form will be perfect or you will land on your ass. You use half the weight and double the intensity.

I honestly think this exercise is too hard for most guys and they avoid it, and simply do back squats.


Front squats are serious and you get serious results.

PS

I think back squats are fine for girls and people that normally use machines
 
solidspine said:
This is such an amazing and universal misunderstanding I think it is humorous,

The solution to form issues and gaining a lot of size through intensity is very simply:

Do front squats.


It is impossible to this exercise incorrectly without falling down or breaking your collarbone, your form will be perfect or you will land on your ass. You use half the weight and double the intensity.

I honestly think this exercise is too hard for most guys and they avoid it, and simply do back squats.


Front squats are serious and you get serious results.

PS

I think back squats are fine for girls and people that normally use machines

Let me start by saying that I do front squats and yes they are much harder. solidspine, are you a chiropractor? I'm trying to remember if I read that a while back.
Also, would you be more prone to hernia during front squats? I seem to feel a little more pressure on my lower abdominal wall.
 
Solidspine- I agree fronts are more difficult, but they also focus on more quad then overall leg/glute!

Reg squats, done correctly hit the entire quad, the glutes and hammys!

You should not have knee or back pain when doing them. If you're knees are hurting, then your feet are too close and your not going down far enough and your not sticking your ass out! Feet just past shoulders, toes SLIGHTY out, and SIT! Stick you ass out and use your muscles, not your back! Drive thru the floor with the balls of your feet...not your toes. You should be anchored...and your knees should never cross over your toes!

Good luck and squat heavy!
 
OK Iron bros. I have a slight herniation in one of the disks in my lower back. When the herniation is acting up, squats/deadlifts seem to irritate (read - make it a LOT worse). Any advice to help get stronger/do squats?
 
I just don't fell like I do a real leg workout if I don't Squat. Squats will get your entire body tired and exhausted. And yes it is true with good form you don't need a belt or knee wraps and it doesn't even strain your back.
 
I'm with P-DUB. Regular squats done with proper form are the best overall leg exercise. No leg routine is complete without it. Not to mention it makes you bigger overall.
 
I will completely agree with regular squats kicking the shit out of smith squats. (I remember someone saying the only thing it was good for was hanging your towel on) However, Dorian Yates said his legs only really started to grow when he switched to Smith Squats... but who knows with that guy?
 
bmjaa said:
----------------------------------------
1. RESEARCH UPDATE: Squats And Your Back
----------------------------------------

Are squats really bad for your back?

New research shows that squats -- often criticized on the basis
they're "bad" for your back -- could actually be doing your spine
some good.

....examined the back of the man holding the current world
record for the squat. Despite being able to squat over 1,000
pounds, several scans revealed a remarkably healthy spine.


He is probably a young and big bone and joint man, and, most important, HE IS ONLY ONE!

How many big guys have suffered back injuries because of squatting?

And how many not so big guys found out to have a worn out back after 10-20 years of squat?

I am sorry, I was en enthusiast like you, when I was 20, 30, 35.
Not now (38).
Starting to collect the "bills" from weight lifting for more than half my life, and it is not nice.

And do not tell me it is the poor form or excessive load, this it just nothing that applies to me.

It is just that, the human body is NOT designed to heavy squat, dealift, and so on and so forth.

It is nice to do, it is useful to get big and strong, it may make feel you good (at least it did it to me).

But it is definitely not healthy and it is not going to improve your spine health.

:(
 
Eagle 64-

I can see where you're coming from. I retired from football a few years ago. I've had several surgeries and am going in to do work on the knees soon (5 weeks). But squats have never (by themselves) hurt my knees/back. It's that damn plastic grass that screwed me up! I'm paying for it now, but squats are the only thing that keeps my legs big. I can't press too much, knees can't take it, and other movements (ext'ns and lunges) I can do but with moderate weight only. Squats are the only thing I can lift HEAVY and I've never had a prob. Just my experience...

P-DUB
 
I have been saying this for years. Every guy I talk to at the gym that has recurring back problems never did squats or deadlifts. My guess is that their spinae erectors have become so weak that their back was a time bomb waiting for injury.

I have been squatting for 13 years and I have never had a back injury. Of course I always practice good form and I don't push the limits unless I can maintain proper form. ( a good rack with a mirror in fron and one on your side helps for this).
 
solidspine said:
This is such an amazing and universal misunderstanding I think it is humorous,

The solution to form issues and gaining a lot of size through intensity is very simply:

Do front squats.


It is impossible to this exercise incorrectly without falling down or breaking your collarbone, your form will be perfect or you will land on your ass. You use half the weight and double the intensity.

I honestly think this exercise is too hard for most guys and they avoid it, and simply do back squats.


Front squats are serious and you get serious results.

PS

I think back squats are fine for girls and people that normally use machines

Actually I saw a guy doing the worst front squats I've ever seen. It was like good mornings with the bar in front.

I've always had a problem with front squats because I always felt like the bar was choking me, so since football I don't do 'em!

JC
 
solidspine said:

The solution to form issues and gaining a lot of size through intensity is very simply:

Do front squats.


I think back squats are fine for girls and people that normally use machines

I hope you were joking. No disrespect, but front squats are a nice exercise, but they really don't hit the full thigh like back squats. I don't find them difficult, I just find them unnecessary.
 
I still believe you can eliminate or at least minimize the risk of back pain with front squats done correctly.

Yes front squats hit the quads more than rear or hack squats, but my over leg size and glutes have never been better,

Squats are only one exercise you want to do for your legs.


With regards to lower back and hamstrings, good old stiff leg dead lifts seem to burn the hams and strengthen the lower back, for me.

I am not a chiropractor I sell interbody anterior fusion implants (autograft) for spinal surgery.


I am off to the gym, right now ----it is leg night


Oh yes, with regards to knee pain that could be a host of things, torn meniscus, cartilage or ligament strain.

I tore my anterior left meniscus skiing Squaw Valley two years ago and it still hurts on occasion when I lift heavy.

I always wrap that knee and it has helped me maintain my routine.
 
I can understand the position of the most of you guys.

But, trying to be consistent, do you really think that our spine disks are built to have few hundreds kilos over them and then move?

Some of you have never suffered back injuries from squat, I have and I have seen many guys having that.

I would not suggest squat if spine health is a major concern and expecially if the spine is not 100% healthy.


eagle
 
Dantes said:
I will completely agree with regular squats kicking the shit out of smith squats. (I remember someone saying the only thing it was good for was hanging your towel on) However, Dorian Yates said his legs only really started to grow when he switched to Smith Squats... but who knows with that guy?


I agree, I have had better results with Smith Squats as well. As long as your foot placement is correct they work very well. I also quit haveing lower back pains when I switched to Smith's. I swear by them now. My legs are growing well, 28 1/2" right now, so I know you can get good legs from Smith Squats.
 
joncrane said:


Actually I saw a guy doing the worst front squats I've ever seen. It was like good mornings with the bar in front.

I've always had a problem with front squats because I always felt like the bar was choking me, so since football I don't do 'em!

JC

How did he keep the bar from going forward? It's impossible to have an exagerated tilt in the front squat and keep the bar racked. He must have been using really light weight or have an absolutely massive upper body which would also indicate light weight.
 
front squats are one of those exercises that take time to perfect in order to add weight and develop bigger quads. I like front squats but Im guilty of not doing them as often as I should. They can also hurt some people's shoulders, but you get use to that.
 
MadCow1 said:


How did he keep the bar from going forward? It's impossible to have an exagerated tilt in the front squat and keep the bar racked. He must have been using really light weight or have an absolutely massive upper body which would also indicate light weight.

He was doing 135 I believe.
 
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