Springfield Crew's Numbers...

[AnimalMass1]

9/19/02

DE Bench Day:

I don't have a damn clue what we did. This was our first week in awhile with chains, and Dave had the huge chains that Westside uses, so we played with those as well as our chain, which is the biggest that Farm/ Feed stores sell. We just bought double the length as the big ones so that it all evened out.

Dave:

185 + 80 lbs of chain x 3 x 8 (Dave looked fast today and everytime I see him bench, I am amazed at how short his bench stroke is. I'm gonna take some video of it and show you guys next week.

Matt:

Set 1: 185+ 80 lbs of chain (this was wayyy too much weight and was slow as hell.

Set 2: 185 + 40 lbs of chain (this was still too slow).

Set 3: 175 + 40 lbs of chain (this was very close, but not anywhere near my 2.0-2.1 sec mark.

Sets 4-8: 165 + 40 lbs of chain (this was about right for speed). finally

Chris:

Set 1: 175 + 80lbs of chain (way too slow)

Set 2: 175 + 40lbs of chain (still a little slow)

Sets3-8: 165 + 40 lbs of chain (about right)

Phil:

Set 1: 135 + 80 lbs of chain (too slow)

Sets2-8: 135 + 40lbs of chain (still a little slow, but not bad.)


After our sets, we did 5 board band press:

Dave: 315 for a 5 rep max and had more in him.

Matt: 315 x 1 (PR!)

Chris: 275 x 0, 265 x 1 (blew it up), 275 x 0, 275 x 1 (PR!) LOL

Phil: 205 (PR!)

Then we did Lat Pulldowns

One thing I noticed is how slow we all were today compared to the band weight. It still goes up fast, but the weight just comes down so slow when you don't have bands pulling it down.

AnimalMass

 

[IrishPower]

answer to your PM

Animal Mass,

My recommendations are as follows:

D. Bench

don't use the bands every week. these are stressful. do a couple weeks where you use chains or even just raw weight. don't forget that every 2-3 weeks or so you work up to a single here after speed work as well. Use different grips for you singles.


D. Squat

no offense, but you are not a very advanced lifter yet. i don't mean this disrepctfully, but you really don't need to do all that stuff with circa-max just yet. i think you should use more raw weight in your speedwork on squats. personally, i have tried using < 50% on speed day for an entire training cycle, and i had problems coming out of the hole at the meet. you dont get the same spring as you do with a denim bench shirt even if you are wearing a canvas. it is important to develop some more power (i think). I am going to rotate days. some days i will use > 50% and less band tension. some days i will use < 50% and a lot of tension. i also take a week of if my knees or hips bother me too much.

M. Bench

I disagree with westside on this. i think you need practice with a shirt, especially if you are using a tight double denim. i think what you have for exercises looks good. the shirt WILL artificially inflate your numbers on the boards. For example, if you are a 500 bencher, you will probably be able to use 550 on the boards. in order to avoid having to use too much weight, i recommend using less raw weight and mini-bands on these days. you can also do board presses for reps if you are using a looser shirt. my friend (600+ bencher) has developed his bench considerably using this method, and i will be trying this for my training cycle.

ME Squat/Dead

these all look like good exercises you have picked out BUT: i think you should be more adaptive and less rigid in what you choose. for instance, you will be really strong in some movements. if you find you are exceeding your best squat with a wide good morning or exceeding your best deadlift in a non-suited pin pull by a LOT of weight, you really DONT need to work this point. you are already strong there. a lot of people miss this point. for me, i am strong as hell on high, wide good mornings. it took a lot for me to throw these out and concentrate on weaker positions.

personally, i do NOT like good mornings with the SS bar. they put too much pressure on my neck and even knees when i go heavy. i like to use the ss bar for assisted squats to a box with no belt as a suppelmentary exercise after my ME work.

9 weeks is not a lot of time to figure things out, but if you find a movement you are horribly week at early on, repeat this later in the cycle. this is your weak link. bring it up.


Other notes:

I would *NOT* take a full deadlift or a full geared squat before your meet. if you need to take a full geared squat, take it AFTER your speed work, and don't work up past your opener. also, can the knee wraps until the meet. you will NOT be as strong in the gym as you will be at the meet, and you will psyche yourself out if you try and max out. for instance, my first meet on the westside protocol, i dumped a full geared 755 off my back the gym. fortunately, adrenaline kicked in at the meet and i did a 770 there. point being, save your FULL, GEARED lifts for the meet.

Also, another great exercise to practice your pulling form is speed pulls against bands. do these every other week with < 50% of your project max. add band tension as necessary.



This is a lot of info compressed into a tiny thread. feel free to email me with more questions. i am NOT the expert. I am still experimenting to find out what works for me.

Good luck.


/tommy

 

[AnimalMass1]

don't use the bands every week. these are stressful. do a couple weeks where you use chains or even just raw weight. don't forget that every 2-3 weeks or so you work up to a single here after speed work as well. Use different grips for you singles.

We don't use bands every week. I took the band cycle from Dave Tate himself as a circa-maximal for the bench. We will start with several weeks of chain, then do the circa-maximal, and then go to several weeks of chains again to deload.

So should we not do the circa-maximal cycle, even if it is obvious that our weakness is in our lockout? We all could use our lockout numbers to go up. - Right now, our raw bench is just too close to our competition bench.

no offense, but you are not a very advanced lifter yet. i don't mean this disrepctfully, but you really don't need to do all that stuff with circa-max just yet. i think you should use more raw weight in your speedwork on squats. personally, i have tried using < 50% on speed day for an entire training cycle, and i had problems coming out of the hole at the meet. you dont get the same spring as you do with a denim bench shirt even if you are wearing a canvas. it is important to develop some more power (i think). I am going to rotate days. some days i will use > 50% and less band tension. some days i will use < 50% and a lot of tension. i also take a week of if my knees or hips bother me too much.

OK, this makes more sense to me. We taped our DE squat workout today, and with the exception of Dave, we could all use some modification on our groove. I have felt slow out of the hole before, so I will try to incorporate some DE days with over 50% raw weight, and just light bands, so that we are better out of the hole.

I disagree with westside on this. i think you need practice with a shirt, especially if you are using a tight double denim. i think what you have for exercises looks good. the shirt WILL artificially inflate your numbers on the boards. For example, if you are a 500 bencher, you will probably be able to use 550 on the boards. in order to avoid having to use too much weight, i recommend using less raw weight and mini-bands on these days. you can also do board presses for reps if you are using a looser shirt. my friend (600+ bencher) has developed his bench considerably using this method, and i will be trying this for my training cycle.

Cool. So all looks well with the shirt work. I too disagree with Westside here in that knowing your shirt and finding that groove can and will make or break a meet. We all need to be comfortable in our shirts. I think what we will do, is to work up to a raw max on the boards, and then throw the shirt on and hit another rep or two to get a shirt max on the boards.

these all look like good exercises you have picked out BUT: i think you should be more adaptive and less rigid in what you choose. for instance, you will be really strong in some movements. if you find you are exceeding your best squat with a wide good morning or exceeding your best deadlift in a non-suited pin pull by a LOT of weight, you really DONT need to work this point. you are already strong there. a lot of people miss this point. for me, i am strong as hell on high, wide good mornings. it took a lot for me to throw these out and concentrate on weaker positions.

I agree whole heartedly, and chose those exercises specifically to address our weakness. (i.e. - Dave will do pin pulls, because he has trouble locking out the weight, but my brother and I will do box pulls, because we have a hard time off the floor.)

I have tried to work it so that we peak with everything about the time of the meet. And as far as being rigid, we are very cognitive in our training. If we feel like we need a diff. exercise that day, or to maybe just pull the sled, or whatever, we'll do it - this is just the basic framework for helping us address our weaknesses between now and then and trying to peak at the right time.

I would *NOT* take a full deadlift or a full geared squat before your meet. if you need to take a full geared squat, take it AFTER your speed work, and don't work up past your opener. also, can the knee wraps until the meet. you will NOT be as strong in the gym as you will be at the meet, and you will psyche yourself out if you try and max out. for instance, my first meet on the westside protocol, i dumped a full geared 755 off my back the gym. fortunately, adrenaline kicked in at the meet and i did a 770 there. point being, save your FULL, GEARED lifts for the meet.

The reason I threw this in was because none of us have ever squatted or deadlifted in gear. The same way that I feel we need to be comfortable in our shirts, I feel (don't you?) that we need to be comfortable in our suits.

That's why I threw it in there, but if you think it would be better after DE work, we can do that. (Let me know)

Also, another great exercise to practice your pulling form is speed pulls against bands. do these every other week with < 50% of your project max. add band tension as necessary

We do these quite often, although I was thinking of doing my speed pulls for a change off of a box. I am very weak off a box and off the floor. But if the weight budges, it blows up. (My brother is the same way). Now, Dave has trouble with lockouts, so his speed pulls will def be done with bands.

Thanks Again Tommy!

AnimalMass

 

[AnimalMass1]

9/20/02

DE Squat Day:

Reg Phase for Phil. Speed Strength for Dave, Matt, and Chris.

Phil:

115 + light bands x 2 x 8 (actually he did three reps for about the first 5 sets - its funny - he just can't remember to do only two.)

135+ light bands x 1, 185 + light bands x 1 (PR)

Dave, Matt, Chris:

Set 1: 175, 135, 135 with blue bands x 2

Set 2: 175, 135, 135 with blue + purple bands x 2

Set 3: 175, 135, 135 with blue + green x 2

Matt, Chris: 175+b+g x 1, 185+b+g x 1, 225+b+g x 1 (PR SS)

Dave: 185+b+g x 1, 225+b+g x 1, 315+b+g x 1, 365+b+g x 1, 405+b+g x 1, 455+b+g x 1 (PR!!)

Finished with Glute/Ham Raises and Abs.

AnimalMass

 

[dg21]

This was my first time with a speed strength workout. This sure teaches you to push the entire way through the lift. With blues and greens, there is a lot of tension at the top.
Thanks for your input Tommy. A lifter with your experience helping out is awesome.

 

[powerlifterjay]

My answer to your pm

Well first let me say you have done your homework! That is step 1 taken care of. So thats good. So with that said i agree with Irish on the bands every week. I used to do them every week and it killed me. Personally i use them now every week, but i feel i have progressed to the point in which i can do so. Even now though i take the 4 th week or so off with bands cause of pressure on my joints. But as of now i am into about 6 to 7 weeks of bands in a row. Maybe go bands, chains, then none. Just a thought.

I train so close to the way Irish does i agree with him on the DE squats. We at my gym train with a little more raw weight then many do. Irish in his trip to Fl trained with us and also felt more weight off the box might be good. Considering he has experinced with different techniques before meets and has used various equioment he speaks the truth! So listen to him.

The only thing i disagree with him about is taking a weight in gear. He says none needed (so does my traiing partner) and if you do it, do it on speed day. This is a good idea but... pre meet liftng before my last fullpower meet in June i basically dumped the box squats 6 weeks out and used gear (or added gear each week). I myself had a little problem that took a coupel weeks to cure. I was feeling for a box. And i wasnt comfortable in knee wraps and tight belt plus suit. Once i ironed out the problem i was fine. But for a few weeks i was a wreck! I would not have done if i had goen straight to the meet that way. But looking back i should have just did 3 weeks of no box squatting, not 6. And i have done a few full power meets and even when i dont do a fullpower meet (none in 2001) i still peak out and test my squats. So if you have zero meet experience in gear, like a bench shirt, i say use it and get used to it.

My next full power in Dec i will this time stay on the box till the meet. But last time was my first box squat cycle. And bro they work!! But get to know your gear that is very important. Other then that i think incoporating what Irish said with what you have down looks good. Good luck with it.

 

[AnimalMass1]

Great! Thanks guys so much for the imput. I really respect what you guys have shared with me. I will put your advice to good use!

AnimalMass

 

[IrishPower]

you have put a lot of effort into this stuff. good deal.

it is clear you will learn what works for you!

re: the gear

maybe you should take 1 or 2 with full gear as you have never done this before. just dont try and max out! it depends on what suit you use too. if you are like pljay who was NOT using a canvas, you may get that searching for a box feeling. with a canvas, it will stop you where you need to be. you just reverse.

talk soon.

/irish

 

[AnimalMass1]

9/23/02

ME Bench: Floor Press with 50lbs of chain.

Phil: 185 x 1 (PR), 225 x 0, 225 x 0, 205 x 1 (PR)

Chris: 185 x 1, 225 x 1, 275 x 0, 275 x 0, 265 x 0 (He had a 255 PR, and it's staying that way.

Matt: 185 x 1, 225 x 1, 280 x 1 (PR), 300 x 0 (damn close, but no good)

Dave: 225 x 1, 275 x 1, 315 x 1, 365 x 1, 405 x 0

Rough workout today. Nobody lifted very well.

JM Press on floor with chains

Rows

Rear Delts

 

[AnimalMass1]

9/24/02

ME Squat/ Deadlift Day:

Wide Stance, Arched Back, Suspended Goodmornings at 44."

(One note about goodmornings, we are all over 6' tall, so 36" is way too low. We go 40" on rounded back, and our backs are at absolute parallel at that height. With arched back, we do them at 44", because we've found that any lower than that is impossible to hold the arch tight even with only the bar.)

Also, we do our goodmornings very strict. Very little bend to the legs. Push our ass out and bend at the torso. No squatting the weight up at all.

Phil: 200

Chris: 290

Matt: 330

Dave 440

Glute/ Ham Raises

Abs